UEFA EURO 2024 FREE ON TVNZ

Buffon II

In terms of talent he has the current PFA Player of the Year, La Liga Player of the Year (who also won Bundesliga Player of the Year last year), and Bundesliga Golden Boot (who has also scored over 200 goals in the Premier League). 

He also has one of the best defensive midfielders in the Prem, one of the best right wingers in the Prem (and Europe), and a right back who many would consider the one of the best of the Premier League era. Actually two right backs if you include the one currently deployed in centre mid.

He has a number of league title winners and Champions League winners at his disposal. Not third choice keepers either, integral players to their teams success.

The talent is there, the manager is not.

That isn’t to say this is the best team on paper at the tournament. I don’t think they are. I’d have France ahead for starters. But this squad is hardly Georgia.

So they’ve all played in 4 or 5 tough cup competitions and a long league and need sometime on the beach?
And they’re great with Salah/Rodri/Isak/de Bruyne/Odengaard etc…

Yeh that’s a fairly compelling case you’ve made. I think injuries have hurt him a bit, but I was surprised to see so many surprises in the Euro squad. Tournament teams live or die on stability under pressure and that comes with playing time with personnel in a system. It’s better to be predictable but polished, than unpredictable and unreliable.

Listened to one pod and they pointed out- you’ve got Trent there to hit runners. So when you put the runners on you hook Trent. Incoherent stuff and a weird time to be experimenting. However, they’re still top of their group…

I think we’ll see something a bit different next game. Potentially only one of Bellingham and Foden starting replaced by Gordon, and definitely Trent replaced by Gallagher in the starting role. Or Wharton if Southgate’s really rolling the dice!

Edit: and I freakn forgot Mainoo. But it’s a big ask for him to bail out Ten Hag and Southgate in one season! But currently the boy’s got big game temperament…but a box to boxer not a defensive player really…

The performance was dire and there are players shoehorned into the side in positions they are not suited too. There's still time to change things even if the reaction has almost been as if we were knocked out though.  It could still be worse than 4 points and top of the group after 2 games. There's a couple of teams with aspirations of winning it (Italy, Belgium) who would take it.  

England has one of the best squads in the tournament.

Southgate did a good job getting the players' heads in the right space in previous tournaments. This one he simply doesn't know how to make this squad fire. Worse is that he refuses to react. Trent in midfield is nonsense and he refuses to give other players enough minutes to prove themselves.

Some big name managers would kill to coach this side.

That’d be a brilliant way to choose the next England manager on live pay per view. 

20 of the world’s top managers enter the arena in a battle royale, with only one emerging victorious to tell Kyle Walker not to stay up past bed time…

Watch out for Jose! He might seem past it, but he’s a lurker with an evil streak. Keep an eye on him before it’s too late…

Welcome to England’s Next Top Manager! 

Ukraine win 2-1, scoring the winner in around the 84th minute. Great game from both sides.

Some poor quality finishing from both teams atm. 

Shark game so far.

Funny Ive found it quite entertaining, maybe cos I've got no skin in the game. Got scrappy towards the end of the first half but otherwise some decent footy, attack and defense.

That should never be ruled out.

English refs are fudgeing dogshark. Bin the lot of the useless cods off.

I think you have to give that offside, player between the keeper and the ball. Maybe the keeper isn't getting there but he doesn't even get a chance because of the offside player.

Only Germany and Spain have got going from the big nations so far. The rest have been bang average. 

How crazy is Spain playing a 16 year old and how good and fluid is his control. Absolutely amazing, he could be anything if he keeps fit and his head about him. 

Viva Espana!

Georgia v Czechia is a full on game.

Ian Wright and Big Ange both spot on in punditry about the current offside rule. Chalking goals off because half a kneecap is off is a nonsense.

The game is about goals being scored, not forensically searching for a reason to rule them out.

Buffon II

Ian Wright and Big Ange both spot on in punditry about the current offside rule. Chalking goals off because half a kneecap is off is a nonsense.

The game is about goals being scored, not forensically searching for a reason to rule them out.

 
How much could you be offside to be offside? Rhetorical question. Total useless discussion, just to stir up shark. I love the offside precision, science based no discussion. Better than the Handball rules. VAR did a great job at the tournament so far.

I don’t really like goals being chalked off for half a kneecap being in front of the second last man, especially when you can not find a single still frame that tells you the exact moment the ball left De Bruyne’s boot.

Each to their own I suppose.

If you don't apply it to half a kneecap, where does offside come in? a whole kneecap? two kneecaps? I wouldn't like it to be left open to interpretation, rather have the strict but frustrating current ruling.  

The issue with offside is, if you don’t draw a line somewhere, there’s no point in drawing a line. 
They’ve set the line at closest playable point, so that’s what it needs to be. If that’s half a toe, it’s half a toe.
Particular with the AI assisted modelling FIFA and UEFA use.  Just make it fully automated and instantaneous(ish).
Not as big a fan of the guy in a room drawing an estimated line.

Alternative to defining a line is taking away VAR and put it back to AR and accepting your team is going to be on the wrong end of errors.
We have VAR because everyone was bitching about exactly this.

Would I be concerned if they changed that to furthest point back? Not really, although that’s a longer harder check.

Buffon II

I don’t really like goals being chalked off for half a kneecap being in front of the second last man, especially when you can not find a single still frame that tells you the exact moment the ball left De Bruyne’s boot.

Each to their own I suppose.

That is not factual though, because UEFA use the exact same system FIFA use, and that has a chip in the ball which sends signals to the technology so they know the exact instant the ball was played and can run the check off that exact frame.

There’s been plenty of discussion on these forums before  including plenty of links to articles on how the technology works, but still it gets bitched about whenever someone’s favourite team is on the wrong end of the right decision.

ClubOranje

The issue with offside is, if you don’t draw a line somewhere, there’s no point in drawing a line. 
They’ve set the line at closest playable point, so that’s what it needs to be. If that’s half a toe, it’s half a toe.
Particular with the AI assisted modelling FIFA and UEFA use.  Just make it fully automated and instantaneous(ish).
Not as big a fan of the guy in a room drawing an estimated line.

Alternative to defining a line is taking away VAR and put it back to AR and accepting your team is going to be on the wrong end of errors.
We have VAR because everyone was bitching about exactly this.

Would I be concerned if they changed that to furthest point back? Not really, although that’s a longer harder check.

Arsene Wenger has a current proposal to FIFA is for the whole man to be in front of the last defender before being offside, the rule is supposed to stop players gaining an unfair advantage by being ahead of the defenders - half a kneecap or a nose is hardly an unfair advantage. Wengers way clearly shows the advantage being gained.

It’s crazy how close every offside is at elite level. 

Hope the Scots go through this morning.

Oh poor Scots. Just couldn’t get it in the net. Well done Hungary. 

Swiss 1 : 1 Germany
Fuellkrueg extra time header to equalize

Buffon II

Ian Wright and Big Ange both spot on in punditry about the current offside rule. Chalking goals off because half a kneecap is off is a nonsense.

The game is about goals being scored, not forensically searching for a reason to rule them out.

This is silly take; you're either arguing that (a) VAR shouldn't review offside rules at all (and it's entirely on the assistant) or (b) you want to introduce subjectivity to an objective rule, which will result in even more controversy.

VAR's biggest issue is subjective rules that were excusable when a human was ruling in real time lead to inconsistency and controversy when reviewed by a camera in slow motion. We need more objective rules, not less.

That Musiala and Wirtz not looking so heroic today huh? 

Tournament play: don’t lose a knockout game. 

That’s not to excuse the confused approach of the English, but to point out that these are exciting tournaments in the group because of highly motivated and actually relatively talented ‘minnow’ teams. 

And that the praise and criticism goes and comes based on the 6mm either way between offside and on…

Just a thought exercise- what happens if there were no offsides? Manuals and manuals on counter attacking football get ripped up as do their opposites on organising a defensive line. The games a bit more like Aussie Rules? Stretched and positional? Would there then have to be limits on players in the box like basketball? Or a keeper only zone? All kinds of new genius tactics get worked out. I suppose pressing is a tactic which could be adapted. Would you always leave players back? But if a derail sorry. 

martinb

That Musiala and Wirtz not looking so heroic today huh? 

Tournament play: don’t lose a knockout game. 

That’s not to excuse the confused approach of the English, but to point out that these are exciting tournaments in the group because of highly motivated and actually relatively talented ‘minnow’ teams. 

And that the praise and criticism goes and comes based on the 6mm either way between offside and on…

Just a thought exercise- what happens if there were no offsides? Manuals and manuals on counter attacking football get ripped up as do their opposites on organising a defensive line. The games a bit more like Aussie Rules? Stretched and positional? Would there then have to be limits on players in the box like basketball? Or a keeper only zone? All kinds of new genius tactics get worked out. I suppose pressing is a tactic which could be adapted. Would you always leave players back? But if a derail sorry. 

no offsides would result in the striker not moving out of the oppositions goal mouth for 90 minutes!

I’ve only recently started watching the highlights packages on TVNZ but I think they’re pretty decent. Tbh I think I just find it nice to be able to easily find the best of the mornings action that I’ve missed at work without sifting endlessly through twitter or reddit.

theprof

martinb

That Musiala and Wirtz not looking so heroic today huh? 

Tournament play: don’t lose a knockout game. 

That’s not to excuse the confused approach of the English, but to point out that these are exciting tournaments in the group because of highly motivated and actually relatively talented ‘minnow’ teams. 

And that the praise and criticism goes and comes based on the 6mm either way between offside and on…

Just a thought exercise- what happens if there were no offsides? Manuals and manuals on counter attacking football get ripped up as do their opposites on organising a defensive line. The games a bit more like Aussie Rules? Stretched and positional? Would there then have to be limits on players in the box like basketball? Or a keeper only zone? All kinds of new genius tactics get worked out. I suppose pressing is a tactic which could be adapted. Would you always leave players back? But if a derail sorry. 

no offsides would result in the striker not moving out of the oppositions goal mouth for 90 minutes!

Yeh- so you’d need a player free zone or keeper only zone or a 30 seconds in the key type rule…

But the keeper v striker should be an easy win for a keeper who can use their hands if it’s a high ball. 

martinb

theprof

martinb

That Musiala and Wirtz not looking so heroic today huh? 

Tournament play: don’t lose a knockout game. 

That’s not to excuse the confused approach of the English, but to point out that these are exciting tournaments in the group because of highly motivated and actually relatively talented ‘minnow’ teams. 

And that the praise and criticism goes and comes based on the 6mm either way between offside and on…

Just a thought exercise- what happens if there were no offsides? Manuals and manuals on counter attacking football get ripped up as do their opposites on organising a defensive line. The games a bit more like Aussie Rules? Stretched and positional? Would there then have to be limits on players in the box like basketball? Or a keeper only zone? All kinds of new genius tactics get worked out. I suppose pressing is a tactic which could be adapted. Would you always leave players back? But if a derail sorry. 

no offsides would result in the striker not moving out of the oppositions goal mouth for 90 minutes!

Yeh- so you’d need a player free zone or keeper only zone or a 30 seconds in the key type rule…

But the keeper v striker should be an easy win for a keeper who can use their hands if it’s a high ball. 

 sure fine for one v one, but good luck with 2 v 1

theprof

martinb

That Musiala and Wirtz not looking so heroic today huh? 

Tournament play: don’t lose a knockout game. 

That’s not to excuse the confused approach of the English, but to point out that these are exciting tournaments in the group because of highly motivated and actually relatively talented ‘minnow’ teams. 

And that the praise and criticism goes and comes based on the 6mm either way between offside and on…

Just a thought exercise- what happens if there were no offsides? Manuals and manuals on counter attacking football get ripped up as do their opposites on organising a defensive line. The games a bit more like Aussie Rules? Stretched and positional? Would there then have to be limits on players in the box like basketball? Or a keeper only zone? All kinds of new genius tactics get worked out. I suppose pressing is a tactic which could be adapted. Would you always leave players back? But if a derail sorry. 

no offsides would result in the striker not moving out of the oppositions goal mouth for 90 minutes!

Yeah, absolutely destroy the game like it did hockey.
We’d never get to enjoy exciting end to end action packed goal feasts like France v Netherlands any more.

Italy through by the skin of their teeth. Croatia all but out now.

Spain 9 pts, 0 goals conceded. Rested a lot of players this morning as well. Looking formidable.

England now guaranteed progressing regardless of what happens against Slovenia tomorrow. France and Netherlands also through.

Or Italy v Croatia! 

That’s a group game. Admittedly by a former WC winner and a team in and around the last 4 of the last two World Cups. But that only underlines the quality a Euro group can have.

martinb

Or Italy v Croatia! 

That’s a group game. Admittedly by a former WC winner and a team in and around the last 4 of the last two World Cups. But that only underlines the quality a Euro group can have.

Current world rankings in that group - Spain (8), Croatia (9), Italy (10), Albania (66). Elite!

(Although you suspect Croatia are looking at a tumble down the world rankings in the coming years now their old guard are gone or on their way out.)

So Wharton? Gallagher? Mainoo? 

Friend said Foden in the 10 and Bellingham back. Perhaps the best way to get all the talent in, but won’t happen you’d think or it surely would’ve happened. 

TAA to RB and Walker to left? TAA to tiki tours? 

Where are the goals guna come from? 

Austria top the group. Deservedly so as well.

Netherlands in third and will likely be England's opponents next round if England top the group today.

Predictable. Gallagher. 

Think either Foden or Bellingham need to drop deep and collect the ball off the CB. 

This is a bit of a halfway house. Ball speed and creativity is still slow. The defense is less obviously leaky, but isn’t locked away. Both are a little better, but the opposition isn’t pressing as aggressively.

But I think here the players haven’t delivered. We keep saying 20+ goals etc etc. Well Foden and Bellingham and every one needs to get on the same wavelength. It’s a bit like Chelsea, but not even Nicholas Jackson misses to celebrate. 

Also ridiculous not to have a LB who can use their left foot. Sutton or Cacace would be an improvement here on the attack. And perhaps defense as Gallagher, Bellingham and Kane have all been across to help out the Foden/Trippier defensive pairing.

Austria look like they know how to win football games. 
England... hmmm, maybe they are keeping all their powder dry!

Having Mainoo in midfield added much more for England than anyone else this tournament. The team felt balanced until Trent came on with the sole intent of setting into and congesting the midfield in the way, giving the ball away, and wasting a chance from 50 yards.

I reckon he would've had a goal if Kane played the one-two back to him as well.

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