Diminishing White South African footballers

Buffon II

Doloras

I never knew Martin Crowe said that. He was a bit weird (like most top cricketers lol), but I hope he was still alive for Ross Taylor to make him eat his words

Um, you are aware Crowe was a mentor for Taylor, right?

They both loved that short boundary at Pukekura Park! 
Crowe was in Welly for a while too huh? 
I mean cricket is one of the whitest establishment sports. I remember when Parore got in the NZ team as an understudy to Ian Smith and there were some people amping up rumours he was nicking things from the dressing rooms…Matt Ridge’s wife wasn’t even in the dressing rooms for the cricket, come on…

I remember playing a two day match at a social grade and we had two amazing Tongan medium pacers. I think I was six or seven in the order and was just trying to bat time and not get out. Can’t remember exactly how far behind we were. Maybe close to 200. This guy came in at 9, hit the first 5 balls for 6 and then hit the 6th one straight up in the air and walked off. 

The only other thing like I’ve seen was when we had a guy who’d played baseball play for us. Kiwi guy, but had a couple of high school years in the US. Plus was a fairly natural athlete. Never played cricket before. Hadn’t watched it much. Captain knew him and chucked him in to open. 

First ball is a half volley on middle he whips the bat around and hits it over the leg side in one mighty swipe sending it two and a half fields away. Like he’d almost driven the green on a par 5. The fielding team either slump or gaze in disbelief and we wait a long, long time while someone goes to find it. 

Next two are huge swings and misses outside off and the fourth one bowls him. 

You occasionally get that stuff in social cricket, but less commonly in social football…

Fitzy

You’re going to be waiting a while for your apology there Saffa. Your post was racist. 

Bullion

Saffa

Martinb in no way did I mention the words, " lack and or superior". If that was the case, then that would be absolutely racist. The context of using the word "better" in that sentence was to say that different people bring different strengths to a team like English football of the 80s vs today (because teams are allowed to play more foreign players). There is nothing racist in that, its a fact. 

The Italian "philosophy" of how to play football is the "catenaccio" system, which prioritizes defensive solidity, tactical discipline, and organized counter-attacking.
A quick definition (from google) of the word "philosophy" is a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour. A definition of attitude is a settled way of thinking or feeling about something. Thinking is a mental process (because it originates from the brain), thus the word "mentality"

Lets look at the word "toolset" - a metaphorical set of skills, knowledge, or programs used to accomplish tasks or solve problems. South American players are known worldwide for their dribbling skills which solves a lot of problems in a midfield battle. Now, are South Americans the only people who can dribble well, no, we not say that, but peoples opinion on South American players is that they have many tools in their locker compared to other players. That's a very strong opinion among many people. 

What I find particularly distasteful is that a person will take "1 line", or 1 word and equate it to being racist when the entire context of my message (including the news articles) is one of inclusiveness and love (of football heroes, local and national teams). That is piss poor mate and yes, requires an apology. 

you just made it seem like people have inherent abilities/traits based on ethnicity. Its ok, just take the L and learn from it.

The topic is "Diminishing White South African footballer". The original creator of this topic is concerned that we not seeing young white footballers playing in South Africa anymore. My contribution is that the average South African fan is also concerned (as per the news articles I listed)

"made it seem like people have inherent abilities" - that is weak. What is your opinion on the abilities of Brazilian players? Will that opinion be racist? No, because your opinion is based on generally accepted fact. They good footballers.

cooichee you were so, so right

Saffa

Fitzy

You’re going to be waiting a while for your apology there Saffa. Your post was racist. 

Bullion

Saffa

Martinb in no way did I mention the words, " lack and or superior". If that was the case, then that would be absolutely racist. The context of using the word "better" in that sentence was to say that different people bring different strengths to a team like English football of the 80s vs today (because teams are allowed to play more foreign players). There is nothing racist in that, its a fact. 

The Italian "philosophy" of how to play football is the "catenaccio" system, which prioritizes defensive solidity, tactical discipline, and organized counter-attacking.
A quick definition (from google) of the word "philosophy" is a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour. A definition of attitude is a settled way of thinking or feeling about something. Thinking is a mental process (because it originates from the brain), thus the word "mentality"

Lets look at the word "toolset" - a metaphorical set of skills, knowledge, or programs used to accomplish tasks or solve problems. South American players are known worldwide for their dribbling skills which solves a lot of problems in a midfield battle. Now, are South Americans the only people who can dribble well, no, we not say that, but peoples opinion on South American players is that they have many tools in their locker compared to other players. That's a very strong opinion among many people. 

What I find particularly distasteful is that a person will take "1 line", or 1 word and equate it to being racist when the entire context of my message (including the news articles) is one of inclusiveness and love (of football heroes, local and national teams). That is piss poor mate and yes, requires an apology. 

you just made it seem like people have inherent abilities/traits based on ethnicity. Its ok, just take the L and learn from it.

The topic is "Diminishing White South African footballer". The original creator of this topic is concerned that we not seeing young white footballers playing in South Africa anymore. My contribution is that the average South African fan is also concerned (as per the news articles I listed)

"made it seem like people have inherent abilities" - that is weak. What is your opinion on the abilities of Brazilian players? Will that opinion be racist? No, because your opinion is based on generally accepted fact. They good footballers.

cooichee you were so, so right

Dude take some responsibility for your own words. 
If you say a PSL team is better with white players because they have certain attributes, that’s a racist statement, even though it’s a positive one. It implies a reverse negative statement. 

The larger the group you are making generalisations about the more likely it is to cross the line. And these generalisations which are often racist are not very useful too.

Anthony and Sokrates? Ronaldhino and Fred (the Man U one)? Better to talk with qualifications and specifics to be less inaccurate right? Or frame things as an opinion rather than a statement of absolute fact, if it is that. 

There’s lots of ways you could modify that statement to make it less racist and more useful. 

Playing victim, ignoring what we’re saying and demanding an apology isn’t that great of a way to make anyone take your side. 

And in great part I get it. I remember the massive chants of ‘Booooth’ in 2010 the commentators kept worrying we’d think was booing! Same way in the UK and even more in NZ working class football traditions are meeting gentrification and wealthy clubs. It’s not an argument about people missing the diversity of tradition white players of all backgrounds could bring to the football, it’s about the way you’ve talked about it. 

I'm talking inclusion - you see racist!

Maybe you need to look in the mirror mate.

Read those two line again. I said "South Africans understand...." not I believe. That is so general. You use the word "implies" get off it. It either is or it isn't. Don't come with this far left political stuff. South Africans see a Springbok team "double world champions" that is real inclusive and wish to same for its football teams. 

Context is everything!

Many South Africans also look at South African Rugby and see such inherently racist organisation that had to have a quota system imposed on them to increase number of black and coloured players, coaches, board members and officials. 

But back to the title of the thread, my SA mates don't pine for the lack of quality white players,  they bemoan the lack for quality players of any colour. They want Bafana Bafana players playing in to European leagues and that ain't the case anymore. 

Great comments Kwlap

The lack of South African players in European leagues is also a major issue that worries fans. Fans wish to see their heroes perform and succeed internationally which they believe will help the national team (Bafana Bafana). But the reasons for South African players not moving to Europe in large quantities is complex.

Firstly, for most South African players, putting on the jersey of the PSL big 3 is the pinnacle of their career. The Big 3 gloss is slowly losing its shine but not quick enough. The issue (if you see it as one), is directly related to Apartheid and the isolation of the country. Amazingly, top talent from the township did go the Americas NASL like Jomo Sono, Ace Ntsoelengoe ....etc, etc but were restricted from playing in Europe. This is one of the reasons Jomo Sono transfer to Juventus fell through. Now there are players that did escape to European football like Steve Mokone who where not allowed to return to South Africa until Apartheid end. Incidentally, Steve Mokone was so good, that he has a street in Amsterdam named after him, "Kalamazoo Street", which was his nickname. Very little South African even know about him because of the Apartheid government censorship. So the local game became everything.

Secondly, top local players are paid handsomely to sign long term contracts with the Big 3, particularly Mamelodi Sundowns. Stopping talented young players from  moving to 3-tier leagues (like the Scandinavian countries) and gaining European experience. Young players are often heard saying "Why should I move there, when I'm earning the same or more at home".

Thirdly, the PSL team rules of allowing only "5 international spots" and the rest must be South African discourages teams from releasing quality South African players to European teams.

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The list is endless. All the above players are still in the PSL. Mamelodi Sundowns is the worst of the lot because the owner wants to win the African Champions league. Frustratingly the owner throughs silly money to players to resign contracts. I'm happy for the player but not happy because the national team suffers long term. In fact, the new trend is to bring back players who are currently in Europe to compete in the PSL

Fourth, reason is players ill discipline. South Africa has lost so much talent to the players ill discipline. Players that light up the league, then lose everything because of their wild ways. From Tottenham cancelling Mabizela contract
Mabizela had the talent to be a superstar, but it has all gone down the drain
to Jabu Pule getting the sack from SV Mattersburg
BBC SPORT | Football | African | Jabu Pule gets the sack
ill discipline is the scourge of South African football players.