England Fans' Thread

Yep, coz Germans are renowned for falling to pieces psychologically...

Perhaps, but first on the list is to pick the right players. I would have J. Cole in for Barry( most overated player in UK)Steve G & Frank in the middle and Wright-P on the right with Crouch up front.

Back to FM then lads

The Guardian cheer the boys home:

given that football is about scoring goals - that disallowed one did have an influence on the game's outcome

whilst Germany did move the ball more precisely than England that isn't how football matches are decided

going in at 2-2 at half-time would have given England more options and (even with johnson have a bit of a 'mare) we could well have been looking at a different result. if we hadn't been forced into playing catch-up

on the basis of our group games, we weren't a particularly threatening side and yet we did deserve to go in at halftime 2-2

doesn't alter the fact that work needs to be done before the next Euro's and more long-term too - if we are not to take uruguay's place as a side that once upon a time could play footbal

Funny - they were lauding Trappatoni on 5 Live for what he has been able to deliver with Ireland using a 4-4-2 formation.

I think if you have the talent, confidence, belief and team spirit - then formation is really only a secondary consideration to the effectiveness of the team

Firstly, I'm an Englishman through and through and proud of it. I will support my country no matter how sh*te we become as a team. BUT, I have to admit that I was/am embarrassed and ashamed of, not just yesterday, but all four games we've played in this WC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms7pn3cnWFU&feature=relatedScottishbhoy2010-06-28 22:23:08

Zonal Marking as ever doing a great analysis of the formation, and like you say - 4-4-2 really lets england down with the players they have.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/27/germany-4-1-england-tactics/

Funny, i said name me a top team that uses the 4-4-2 with target man formation. Ireland are not a top team, in fact they are barely an average team.

I read a comment on the Guardian website that summed it up perfectly, to paraphrase, "You don't see Argentina or Holland arguing about which lumbering heap of sh*t they should put up front to knock long balls to all day".
Buffon II2010-06-29 07:02:57

 
well they are a young team, we cant just presume they will have the same composure as german teams of years gone by. they didnt exactly respond well to the first english goal

Every German team is exactly the same. It is born into their psyche from a young age.

Optical illusions

lol.

Get over it.

Uruguay are presently playing very good football. And their lead offensive player was deemed not good enough for England's 'celebrity'  club. Which is another example of how the spend to win motto of that club has seriously undermined all football in England.

For forty years it could be argued that while Uruguay suffered under the yoke of neo-Nazi Generals their football turned into the actuality of these policies. Cyncial, cheating, kicking, spitting, a near nihilism. Now as England wakes up to 30 years of far-right , free market, quasi fascist governance their football side too best represents what these polices do for the visualization of the national psyche. Individiualized, collectivally out-fought, lack of both creation and intellect, the inability to 'ad-lib' sees England become what it used to pity of others.

"well they are so passionate about their  football because they have nothing else"

Hmm. Yet every World Cup we watch the Germans slugging it out in the semis, while the English squad has already been enjoying a week's holiday in Barbados.

But clearly things would have turned out completely differently this time around if only Lampard's goal was awarded.

el grapadura2010-06-29 12:02:58

Had the week of this week hence I've been reading alot of the press back home.

I've been reading the English press, not so much the articles but the comments made at the bottom the overall feeling suggests the country is pretty evenly split on who was to blame for the poor performance between the players, (probably shading it, with not giving a toss and poor skills) and Capello, (poor tactics, subs and poor choice of players). Although most people seem to think we were never in a good position to actually win the Cup.

The most universal feeling though is that the English style is not cutting it. Flair and skill are lacking; time and time again the names of Beardsley, Waddle, Hoddle, Scholes are mentioned and why are we not producing players like this anymore? A complete shake up on how we teach kids football  particularly up until the age of 11 is needed. Opinion is that we must go back to creativity and not go for physical prowess alone.

The blame is centered on the FA and the EPL, too many foreign players and wages being so astronomical that they have elevated players into something that we as everyday people have no bond with. I thought a good comparison was the similarities between the EPL and the SPL  and the detrimental effect both have had on football, as both act as a cartel, (top 4-5 and the old firm), in making sure they get to stay at the top and make lots of money. The FA is portrayed as weak, lacking vision and also happy to maintain the status quo.

Now it can be argued that English football is not just the EPL, but it's influence casts a shadow over all aspects of the game in the UK and not just England and it's players make it into the England squad every time.

Another undercurrent is linking our football team with WW 2 and how embarrassing this is particularly when playing Germany. There is a real feeling amongst the "heavies" (Guardian, Independent, etc),  readership that we need to drop this almost Jingoistic approach to our support and even though that band that play the Great Escape may have at some point in the past help rebrand England it appears anachronistic now and needs to be gotten rid of.

Dunno why I wrote this but I guess I need to draw a line under this farce and stop tormenting myself reading about it.

Following on from your last point, FT, my mate has just sent me this quote from one of the English tabloids: Jag2010-06-29 12:26:07

 
was just saying that things could have turned out very differently, not that it was a certainty

Hmm. I think this guy sums it up pretty well:

What that's meant to read is that England have not beaten a top-flight nation in the knock-out stages of the World Cup tournament since 1966.

yes, but not what it said. pretty fundamental

I know, but it's been all over English websites and blogs, probably just poor proof-reading on their part.

I'd classify it more desperate than Devil's advocate.

"Stormed their group" in this case means coming runner up to Spain? Although they were one of the better Belgium teams (I also recall Scifo hitting the post, and Belgium largely having the better of the game before Platt came up with a last-gasp extra time winner - so well done).

In fact it gets worse. Not only have England never beaten a big team (let's say any team that has ever made a World Cup final) since 1966 in post-group play, but neither have they achieved that before 1966. That is no post-group wins against big teams away from England. Not a sausage.

Maybe only Spain's record is more astonishingly poor.

Will that all change this tournament?

Fair enough, but I disagree. Belgium were a very good side in 1986 and 1990. But I do agree they did have the better of the game until Platt came up with "that" volley from Gascoigne's floated free kick in extra time. That was no bad win at that time.

I also don't like this. What does it have to do with a football match?

Are you Dairy Flat in disguise?

Roy Keane, honest opinion on the players: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8773716.stm

t**sers. Still in their defense I guess they are too young and stupid to know any better.

Just reading another article, (when will I give up?), in the guardian suggesting it's the pressure from the fans that influence the FA into picking it's Managers.

 I love journos, they are the ones the FA listens to not the fans. They over-hype the team and manager and then stick the knife in  when the manager/team cock it up, like a typical sh*t-stirrer that never seems to get caught at it.

Mind you we read the press so I guess support it's methods. 
ForteanTimes2010-06-30 10:42:58

I bet their mothers are really proud

Yep, They've obviously not had anyone come along and say "guys you've not really thought this through have you"?

As you've pointed out, certain sections of the media are quite happy to use as many WWII references as they can in the lead up to England v Germany games, so we shouldn't be surprised that we get that sort of thing showing up in the crowd. Jag2010-06-30 11:04:43

There would be riots Jag. Fortunately it appears the German fans present at the game aren't that stupid and are just there to have a good time supporting their team.

As someone pointed out, imagine if England had lost the war.