America's gun culture

Can someone older or more intelligent than me tell me how it got this bad? A 12 year old going on a shooting spree ffs.

it's in their constitution FFS - the right to bear arms the first thing they learn!

If everyone had guns there would be less gun crime. Apparently. 

yeah, that mentality is the biggest part of the problem, just frucked up!

Never mind the proof that is the rest of the world.

Shoot first, ask questions later. I'm reminded of those two Samoan brothers shot by the Cop in LA. He said they were resisting him when he put a second clip in and emptied it. I don't have a problem with the right to bare arms but some of those red neck good ol boys have half an armoury in the cellar.

yeah, I love watching the preppers show on discovery, they've taken armroury to a whole new level.

It is little wonder the way it is. 

I know Piers Morgan is a fuckwit generally but he is bang on about Americas Gun Culture. Follow him on twitter and see some of the Red Neck abuse he cops from gun toting simpletons in the US and it is pretty easy to see why they have the problem they do.

^^^ it's not just the rednecks that support guns policies which is why it continues.

Great book on the subject called "Lethal Passage" by Erik Larson.

Non-fiction, essentially tracks a gun from manufacture until it was used in a school shooting and also gets into how powerful the NRA are with their lobbying. 

They are actually very scary to have as neighbours.  What I hate more than anything is that many people think that a Canadian = an American. NO!!!!

My impression (having never met a Canadian, I don't think) is that Americans and Canadians are complete opposites. 

Actually - semi-serious question here: Is there much difference between Vancouverites and Seattleites?

Have always wanted to go to BC and Vancouver esp. Absolutely love Seattle - place and the people.  It is a very cosmopolitan and accepting city.

Rural Nth Californians can GGF.

So the thing which gets me (as I can "rationalise" that the utter nut jobs want guns cos that is their right innit) is that there is a vast number of otherwise normal Yanks who have the argument that because the crimmos and fruit cakes have guns, then they themselves better have one just to be on the safe side.

There are some very intelligent Yanks (yes, I know that is almost an oxymoron) out there in Yank-land who seriously believe this.  Fortunately most of my rellies aren't in this cohort.

If Mr Zimmerman didn't have one, then perhaps a 19 yo kid on his way back from buying a packet of crisps and fizz would still be alive.

I have Yank friends who are very much pro-gun.  After the shooting in the school last Christmas, they actually wanted to have teachers have guns locked into their desks!  I don't care how safely these guns would be locked up, I cannot see this being a good idea.  Kids will figure out how to get into locked desks, and locks can be forgotten to be locked.  The whole idea is an utter disaster. 

They always use the argument that "cars kill people too".  Well, last time I checked, cars were bought as a means of transportation.  I've yet to figure out how one can use a gun to get from point A to point B. Guns are bought for one thing by these folks - to kill/hurt people (obviously I'm not talking about hunters here who have a valid right to own one. I don't think people buy cars thinking that they'll use the car to protect themselves.

Slightly off topic, but a question re NZ: do your police officers carry guns? We've had some unfortunate incidents with trigger happy police officers here in Toronto who have shot and killed people.  Some of the cases have gone to court, as it seems that several of these people could have been subdued without them dying.

Our cops have guns and tasers. 

I don't think they carry guns on them as a matter of course but they have them in the car.

Fortunately at the moment there is not a lot of shootings/killings...

In my yoof, all they had was a small stick and a tit on their head.

Much less violent then.

Yet people will still be outraged. Because people are idiots. 

Perhaps they will be outraged because a 13 yo was shot.

This happened last week so presumably people have had time to take stock of events.  

"An advisory panel of the US Civil Rights Commission urged Sonoma County to create civilian-review boards in 2000 following eight fatal officer-involved shootings in less than three years, but that recommendation went unheeded."

Anyone else seen "Bowling for Columbine"? 

Not sure the age of the person shot is relevant - police are not trained to only shoot people pointing guns at them if they are over the age to vote. 

This is one of the cases I'm referring to.  We are friends with a retired cop here who told us that the new officers are not trained nearly enough on how to deal with situations like this.  The retired cop thinks that the kid could easily have been disarmed without having been shot to death.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/08/20/matt-gurney-even-the-cops-cant-defend-the-shooting-death-of-sammy-yatim/

Or perhaps a fully armed, nervous police officer is just as dangerous.

I haven't seen anymore reports of this in the news but it is in my mind another indictment on USA gun culture that the shooting of a 13 yo with a toy gun (not sure how authentic it is but sounds so according to that report) is seen as "the right thing".

Here's something that might help reduce the reliance on firepower to solve disturbances:

"But Rialto's randomised controlled study has seized attention because it offers scientific – and encouraging – findings: after cameras were introduced in February 2012 public complaints against officers plunged 88% compared to the previous 12 months. Officers' use of force fell by 60%.