The problem is that we need to know that our leaders have integrity, otherwise we could get in the situation that they have in the US currently.
Democalypse 2017 - The Election Thread
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
I thought it was going to be a massive own goal when she first started with this, but even I didn't think it would go so spectacularly wrong.
I think the message she was trying to convey is a very important one, but it needed to be done in a much humbler way than she did, and the Greens are paying the price for it now.
To be fair, when I see how many idiot lawyers are walking the streets of this country, getting a law degree may not be the achievement it once was.
To be fair, when I see how many idiot lawyers are walking the streets of this country, getting a law degree may not be the achievement it once was.
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
Because she presented her decision as being a stark one between feeding her child and breaking the law.
What is becoming apparent is that both she and the child had significant family support meaning that (a) the "choice" was not as she described it and (b) her eligibility for the particular benefit she was on (the DPB) was severely compromised. Radio NZ was contacted by members of her "extended family" who were upset at what they felt was a misrepresentation of the level of support she was getting form the family. And that's not surprising, she has implied that she was getting no support from the family on the father of the child's side, which when you consider that she was supposedly in extreme poverty would be very cold hearted considering they had significant means to do so!
I agree that she is trying to advocate for beneficiaries and there is a good story to tell, but fundamentally she's completely cocked this whole thing up!!
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
It's blown up worse than it should have, Nats have had numerous worse scandals which have just whimpered out. The people on the right seem to be less inclined to hold people accountable than on the left.
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
It's blown up worse than it should have, Nats have had numerous worse scandals which have just whimpered out. The people on the right seem to be less inclined to hold people accountable than on the left.
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
Because she presented her decision as being a stark one between feeding her child and breaking the law.
What is becoming apparent is that both she and the child had significant family support meaning that (a) the "choice" was not as she described it and (b) her eligibility for the particular benefit she was on (the DPB) was severely compromised. Radio NZ was contacted by members of her "extended family" who were upset at what they felt was a misrepresentation of the level of support she was getting form the family. And that's not surprising, she has implied that she was getting no support from the family on the father of the child's side, which when you consider that she was supposedly in extreme poverty would be very cold hearted considering they had significant means to do so!
I agree that she is trying to advocate for beneficiaries and there is a good story to tell, but fundamentally she's completely cocked this whole thing up!!
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
It's blown up worse than it should have, Nats have had numerous worse scandals which have just whimpered out. The people on the right seem to be less inclined to hold people accountable than on the left.
If you can't see the issue here in terms of someone who wanted to be Social Development Minister in any government then you just don't get politics.
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
Because she presented her decision as being a stark one between feeding her child and breaking the law.
What is becoming apparent is that both she and the child had significant family support meaning that (a) the "choice" was not as she described it and (b) her eligibility for the particular benefit she was on (the DPB) was severely compromised. Radio NZ was contacted by members of her "extended family" who were upset at what they felt was a misrepresentation of the level of support she was getting form the family. And that's not surprising, she has implied that she was getting no support from the family on the father of the child's side, which when you consider that she was supposedly in extreme poverty would be very cold hearted considering they had significant means to do so!
I agree that she is trying to advocate for beneficiaries and there is a good story to tell, but fundamentally she's completely cocked this whole thing up!!
I think it's fair to assume that was coming given she had categorically denied she was going to resign earlier that day. If she was getting financial support from family then she would not have been eligible for the DPB.
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
It's blown up worse than it should have, Nats have had numerous worse scandals which have just whimpered out. The people on the right seem to be less inclined to hold people accountable than on the left.
If you can't see the issue here in terms of someone who wanted to be Social Development Minister in any government then you just don't get politics.
I can see the issue and think she was right to quit even though it is a big loss to NZ. This is akin to Bill English being Finance minister despite lying about his living conditions to get extra allowances - except for more forgivable because Turei was living in desperate circumstances.
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
It's blown up worse than it should have, Nats have had numerous worse scandals which have just whimpered out. The people on the right seem to be less inclined to hold people accountable than on the left.
If you can't see the issue here in terms of someone who wanted to be Social Development Minister in any government then you just don't get politics.
I can see the issue and think she was right to quit even though it is a big loss to NZ. This is akin to Bill English being Finance minister despite lying about his living conditions to get extra allowances - except for more forgivable because Turei was living in desperate circumstances.
I think the issue is that she wasn't
Anyway, Mike Hosking is supposedly the moderator of the TVNZ debate. If I was Labour I would boycott
Anyway, Mike Hosking is supposedly the moderator of the TVNZ debate. If I was Labour I would boycott
Now that's going to be a fair debate. John Key's unofficial spokesman is going to give the win win questions to National as per unofficial instruction and lose lose questions to every other party.
And then he's going to have some semi coherent rant about it online.
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
It's blown up worse than it should have, Nats have had numerous worse scandals which have just whimpered out. The people on the right seem to be less inclined to hold people accountable than on the left.
Holding people to account has nothing to do with the left or right.
Anyway, Mike Hosking is supposedly the moderator of the TVNZ debate. If I was Labour I would boycott
"Mr English, your campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train. Why are you so popular?"
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
It's blown up worse than it should have, Nats have had numerous worse scandals which have just whimpered out. The people on the right seem to be less inclined to hold people accountable than on the left.
Holding people to account has nothing to do with the left or right.
Well, look at the lack of controversy around:
John Keys sexual harassment allegation, investments in government assets, and numerous lies.
Bill English lying about his living conditions in order for the tax payer to pay his mortgage, his dubious financial practices like forcing solid energy to borrow money at high interest in order to pay a large dividend to the government so that they could achieve a promised surplus (which ended up bankrupting the company), not to mention his history of views (voted against marriage equality has said he would vote against any bill which stopped abortion from being a criminal offense, denying climate change.)
Judith Collins (need I say more)
Gerry Brownlee bypassing security (which that comedian guy Ben someone was arrested for doing and other people have had large fines, flight bans, and community service for also doing).
Not to mention all the stuff that Trump and his cronies did before being elected in the US (and since).
That's off the top of my head, I'm sure I've missed plenty of controversies big and small, the point is that all of those were worse or equivalent to Turei yet nothing was career ending.
Anyway, Mike Hosking is supposedly the moderator of the TVNZ debate. If I was Labour I would boycott
I have a feeling Jacinda will handle him a lot better than previous labour leaders - he wont know what hit him. And to be fair to Mike, he has been a lot more balanced in his comments around labour and national of late.
maybe in your eyes. Not in others.
I think she is a massive douchebag but would have preferred if she stayed in order to see their vote plummet
Anyway, Mike Hosking is supposedly the moderator of the TVNZ debate. If I was Labour I would boycott
I have a feeling Jacinda will handle him a lot better than previous labour leaders - he wont know what hit him. And to be fair to Mike, he has been a lot more balanced in his comments around labour and national of late.
yeah but he's basically a national party member, he's been a direct advocate for them for ages.
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
It's blown up worse than it should have, Nats have had numerous worse scandals which have just whimpered out. The people on the right seem to be less inclined to hold people accountable than on the left.
Holding people to account has nothing to do with the left or right.
Well, look at the lack of controversy around:
John Keys sexual harassment allegation, investments in government assets, and numerous lies.
Bill English lying about his living conditions in order for the tax payer to pay his mortgage, his dubious financial practices like forcing solid energy to borrow money at high interest in order to pay a large dividend to the government so that they could achieve a promised surplus (which ended up bankrupting the company), not to mention his history of views (voted against marriage equality has said he would vote against any bill which stopped abortion from being a criminal offense, denying climate change.)
Judith Collins (need I say more)
Gerry Brownlee bypassing security (which that comedian guy Ben someone was arrested for doing and other people have had large fines, flight bans, and community service for also doing).
Not to mention all the stuff that Trump and his cronies did before being elected in the US (and since).
That's off the top of my head, I'm sure I've missed plenty of controversies big and small, the point is that all of those were worse or equivalent to Turei yet nothing was career ending.
Ah, so you are mainly talking about the left and right in NZ.
There is irony in that One News, their reporters and basically TVNZ have been Labour fans for years. At the last election "no matter what we say or do, the polls do not change" was one line and now people are whinging cause Hosking is running the debate? You are having a laugh.
I am not a Bill English fan and think Ardern is quite a ditz (but has a bit more about her than Little which is not hard) but fundamentally, Labours policies are sharkhouse and National are suffering from no more than having a bore in charge. There could be a change in Government but as long as Winston 1st are not working with the Greens, there wont be. She needs to offer a little more than 'rail in Auckland, tax the water bottlers and tax the farmers.' She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
This country isn't going to prosper by continued reliance on primary industries. The sooner we all accept that, the better.
If Labour can nudge into the high 30s, they'll have a reasonable shot at forming a government. They'll have a shot with even mid-thirties.
She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
This country isn't going to prosper by continued reliance on primary industries. The sooner we all accept that, the better.
If Labour can nudge into the high 30s, they'll have a reasonable shot at forming a government. They'll have a shot with even mid-thirties.
She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
This country isn't going to prosper by continued reliance on primary industries. The sooner we all accept that, the better.
If Labour can nudge into the high 30s, they'll have a reasonable shot at forming a government. They'll have a shot with even mid-thirties.
NZ shipped over 30 billion dollars worth of goods around the world in 2016.
90% of that was in dairy,honey,eggs, meat, fruit, fish etc.
This will be around for a very long time.
She needs to offer a little more than 'rail in Auckland, tax the water bottlers and tax the farmers.' She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
Farmers generally vote National so she's not really lost anything there!
She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
This country isn't going to prosper by continued reliance on primary industries. The sooner we all accept that, the better.
If Labour can nudge into the high 30s, they'll have a reasonable shot at forming a government. They'll have a shot with even mid-thirties.
NZ shipped over 30 billion dollars worth of goods around the world in 2016.
90% of that was in dairy,honey,eggs, meat, fruit, fish etc.
This will be around for a very long time.
Dairy and agriculture is closer to 40%, Tourism is around 20%, and Technology is around 10% but is growing much quicker than the others.
She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
This country isn't going to prosper by continued reliance on primary industries. The sooner we all accept that, the better.
If Labour can nudge into the high 30s, they'll have a reasonable shot at forming a government. They'll have a shot with even mid-thirties.
NZ shipped over 30 billion dollars worth of goods around the world in 2016.
90% of that was in dairy,honey,eggs, meat, fruit, fish etc.
This will be around for a very long time.
Dairy and agriculture is closer to 40%, Tourism is around 20%, and Technology is around 10% but is growing much quicker than the others.
Really?
Kennedy Graham put himself ahead of the change of government. Kind of a difficult one to explain credibly to me.
The polls are due to the Ardern factor.
Gordon Campbell on Graham "Sportingly, on RNZ this morning, Greens co-leader James Shaw praised Graham as being a world class expert on climate change and a leader on cross party co-operation on the subject. Hmmm. Lets just say that this high assessment is a minority view around Parliament that’s quite possibly held only by Shaw, and by Graham himself."
http://werewolf.co.nz/2017/08/gordon-campbell-on-t...
I don't know what your respect for him is based on, but for the first time in a decade I saw someone standing up for beneficiaries and the poor and he joined the queue to stick the knife in. And help the braying mob including Kiwiblog, Mike Hosking, Patrick Gower et al...
Also:
"Green Party general manager and campaign director Sarah Helm revealed this evening that both MPs were asked by the party to stand down at the general election but refused to.
As a result, they were demoted in the list rankings, she said, and had been disgruntled ever since. “I think they were looking for a reason to resign or withdraw.” Helm also revealed that the two MPs had been “underperforming” in the election campaign so far. Clendon had made just one phone call, and Graham had done three to four hours’ campaigning work, she said."
But, hey, you know...it was principle and that...
And you'd think that getting Hayley Holt (did you noooo she went out with Raichie McCaaw?) into parliament would help get them positive mentions on the news...
Ardern factor was definitely a part of it, but I don't believe the Greens would have lost one third of their vote to Labour without an issue pushing them out the door as well.
Again, I find it sad that you feel the need to attack Graham, while at the same time using the term 'braying mob' (which, for some you mentioned I do agree with). The Twitterati has definitely been out in a mob like manner at Graham and Clendon, discounting there service to the Party and the country. Despite what the campaign director has said, surely if he was asked to resign or wasn't valued as they are mentioning he wouldn't have been placed at 11 on initial list by the party, and then pushed up to 8 in the final list by the party members vote, ahead of rising stars like Chloe Swarbrick and Golriz Ghahraman, who i'm sure the party would love to have in Parliament.
Finally, not sure what Hayley Holt has to do with anything, but it was the members vote that pushed her up 13 places into what was (before this all blew up and potentially really hurt the vote), an electable position.
Edit: Also, does noted right wing journalist John Campbell fit into the 'braying mob' as it sounds like it was his teams investigation that turned out to be the final straw?
I don't know Graham, but to attack your leader in the manner that he did is fairly poor. Actually worse than that. I am quoting the Green party GM and respected journo Gordon Campbell who has been close to the Greens. Not braying mob, as such.
Dr. Graham would have to do something spectacular to rise in my estimation from here. The poor and beneficiaries have been pilloried and stigmatised throughout this government and Metiria was being their champion. I don't see a principled objection to what she was doing in their actions, especially given their timing and I doubt a large number of the Green caucus do either.
That's not being part of a braying mob.
Hayley Holt? Personality driven telegenic yoof with pop culture appeal? All the rage...Don't the Greens vote on their list? She would be in earlier then I believe?
I haven't seen Graham make a compelling case for doing what he did at all. To me that makes him a basically a traitor. It seems vital to change the government. He could have handled things better and internally if he was being loyal.
Perhaps it is legitimate to compare older politicians' struggles to stay relevant to the struggles of beneficiaries and the poor in NZ, but I think I have more respect of the person advocating for the latter.
Anyway Mike I do respect your opinion. Just unusually on this occasion I don't agree with it. Still not particularly close with Nats or NZ first voters and what matters to them. Sometimes they surprise me with a honest system of values, not just greed.
She needs to offer a little more than 'rail in Auckland, tax the water bottlers and tax the farmers.' She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
Farmers generally vote National so she's not really lost anything there!
A little triangulation is a good idea, but there's a reason why Labour isn't throwing all its money into winning Clutha-Southland! Plus a price on water is a super popular policy.
Also tourism is now bigger than farming too. If farming is reliant on subsidised pollution clean up, free water and illegally cheap labour its not much of a profitable industry then is it? If it can meet its costs and not dump them on the rest of us and pay a fair wage for living in the wops and getting up at 4 in the morning in winter then, hey!
Vader...words fail.
Also you might be surprised that not all farmers are keen to run the country in to the ground be over intensifying and feeding stock palm kernels...
To be fair, when I see how many idiot lawyers are walking the streets of this country, getting a law degree may not be the achievement it once was.
Many fewer lawyers amongst ex-long term beneficiaries than among the fever elite tbf
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
I can't agree with this at all.
The Green vote surged to 15%.
This forced Labour to change its leader to someone who has spent much of her career focused on child poverty. Labour has drawn votes away from the Greens, but Metiria brought the focus to this issue and to the left in general.
The Labour/Green vote is actually remarkably stable. All the media fap is about changing water from one cup to another and back several times, when you are going to drink both in the end.
So the net result is the progressive coalition has taken back some protest votes from NZ First.
Not sure where you get your hyperbole of the last line from at all.
Had to nod when David Seymour on Backbenches said to Jan Logie 'with the greatest of respect, you are deluded'. Sums up quite a few in the Greens
I find it odd that people who are green voters are still supporting her when she has pretty much torpedoed the Green party vote at this election by effectively misrepresenting her own circumstances. It's probably one of the worst pieces of politics in the last 20 years
I can't agree with this at all.
The Green vote surged to 15%.
This forced Labour to change its leader to someone who has spent much of her career focused on child poverty. Labour has drawn votes away from the Greens, but Metiria brought the focus to this issue and to the left in general.
The Labour/Green vote is actually remarkably stable. All the media fap is about changing water from one cup to another and back several times, when you are going to drink both in the end.
So the net result is the progressive coalition has taken back some protest votes from NZ First.
Not sure where you get your hyperbole of the last line from at all.
She seems to forget that most of NZ are run on farmers so she has just killed that segment.
This country isn't going to prosper by continued reliance on primary industries. The sooner we all accept that, the better.
If Labour can nudge into the high 30s, they'll have a reasonable shot at forming a government. They'll have a shot with even mid-thirties.
NZ shipped over 30 billion dollars worth of goods around the world in 2016.
90% of that was in dairy,honey,eggs, meat, fruit, fish etc.
This will be around for a very long time.
Dairy and agriculture is closer to 40%, Tourism is around 20%, and Technology is around 10% but is growing much quicker than the others.
http://www.worldstopexports.com/new-zealands-top-1...
Therefore, exports accounted for about 19.3% of New Zealand’s total economic output.
From the very link you posted.
Had to nod when David Seymour on Backbenches said to Jan Logie 'with the greatest of respect, you are deluded'. Sums up quite a few in the Greens
I think it's actually the opposite, people are deluded if they think the status quo can continue. We are being stagnated into oblivion.