Watched the whole thing and yes it was as cringey and horrible as you'd expect. Trump just spouted and ranted on and on about immigrants being the downfall of the country and it's all Bidons fault. Even if what he was saying was true or accurate he offered no policy about how he'd stop it - half expected him to start the "build the wall" chant again. Harris didnt offer much in policy either, but she was composed and clam and didnt fall into the "angry female politician" storyline that Trumps team would have hoped for. If anything Trump was the angry old guy yelling at the kids to get out of his back yard, while Harris was more controlled. I note that Trump has claimed he won and that the moderators were against him - felt he was corrected too many times.
Very good point about why Harris maybe didn't engage with him as much. You are right, people would have said she came across as a "hysterical women" if she did. Moderators were great with the shutting down his lies straight away, more debates need to do that (not that I think there will be another one now) but clearly was annoying Trump. He was always going to claim he won, he always has the "best debates"
Watched the whole thing and it was a relief after watching the Biden debate.
Surely the third time around any undecided voter must see trump for what he is.
One question he was asked a specific question about climate change he ranted for a minute about jobs and manufacturing without talking about climate at all.
Watched the whole thing and it was a relief after watching the Biden debate.
Surely the third time around any undecided voter must see trump for what he is.
One question he was asked a specific question about climate change he ranted for a minute about jobs and manufacturing without talking about climate at all.
I mean the dude had a whole presidency and the rest. After one more debate it’s not going to make that much difference in understanding his character. They gotta know by now.
The debate really is mostly a test if he can stay awake enough to read the teleprompter so they can trust him enough.
And a way to find out who’s ride or die for his personality cult.
"In a few years time when we are living in a world of President Trump chaos we will reflect on today’s « what if « moment" Thankfully we have a previous presidential term with which to inform us what trump chaos might look like. I'm no fan of his, or any other politician at all for that matter, and I don't have a preference for left or right, but I can tell you that this is what happened last time he was president: No new wars. De-escalation with Russia and North Korea. No war in Gaza. Trump is an idiot, but he certainly focussed on peace, which I would welcome in the current climate.
No new wars? True, but he did his best to start a civil war!
Apparently a bunch of the original punks are all Brexiteers now. It was just about wearing safety pins and starting (and ending) a party by drinking a full bottle of vodka at 7pm!
Squirrel chief executive and former chief executive of the Co-operative Bank, David Cunningham, said the conversation about a CGT would not be necessary if the housing market was not dysfunctional.
"Why does it come up? Because people make money investing in property. Why do they do that? Not for the rental yield but for the capital gain... why is there capital gain? We've got he supply and demand for housing mucked up. All the wrong things are happening from a policy perspective."
Brian Gaynor was saying this when I was at university more than 20 years ago. Private investment has been funneled into the one sided bet of the property market, and failed at producing productivity gains or export dollars.
Those winning that one sided bet, including almost all of the parliament, have been holding back change. More than any illusion of debt or overspending (especially once you’ve rushed through $32billion worth of tax cuts), is where the real long term crisises in our economy is.
The thing that gets me is our businesses are starved of capital, they usually fail and if they do grow then they often have to leave the country in order to raise money to expand. But, people aren't going to invest in businesses when you have a non-taxed, low risk (perception anyway), and high return investment in real estate.
The government often talks about productivity and being business friendly, yet their policies mean all our investment goes into non-productive assets.
I have little idea of the various economic policies either Trump or Harris are running with. But those policies are obviously important to the average American.
Horrible human being that he is, if Trump and the Republicans are seen as much better managers of the economy that Harris & the Dems, I think Donald may just win.
Economists are saying that Trumps economic plans are insane, I'd imagine with billionaires it's about hedging your bets. Be in Trumps good books if he wins and if he loses then Harris is probably less corruptible anyway.
Hopefully the continued warnings from economists around Trump's climate-destroying economic plans might get through to voters in battleground states who remain undecided or are leaning towards Trump, and stop them from making the biggest mistake before or come Election Day. Though considering it's the US, I'm not holding my breath.
There’s not one set thing that’s good for ‘the economy’. Different policies benefit different people and different sectors. It’s all very well celebrating low inflation when you are one of the structurally unemployed required for the model to work.
As above ‘economic growth’ that we focus on in our media stories as our economic fundamental was for a long time somewhat illusory, as it was created in large part by immigration.
But yeh Trump has done very, very well for the billionaire class, so it’s a no brainer for them to back him, if they have few other concerns than their personal wealth. Limiting the number of people with genuine power simply limits the required lobbying budget. Simplifies things.
Going to a football game for most folks is a form of escapism. For a couple of hours you get away from the rigours of everyday life, and all the bad news out there.
For sure lots of people at Mt Smart on Saturday won't be fans of candidate Trump, and not particularly like the idea of the majority owner of the new club they support donating to the felon.
But apart from the small number that make up T-AFC (almost tiny it seems), I doubt any will be protesting at the ground about Foley's decision to back again the Trump ticket. They will overwhelming be there to watch 22 men kick a football around.
And that Foley decision seems to be based more on him being a staunch Republican, and having a dislike of the Harris/Waltz Dem alternative - that any fondness for Donald. Likely many millions of Americans will be thinking the same way and will vote accordingly in November.
So hopefully everyone at Penrose on Saturday has a nice day out, the small pocket of T-AFC can protest as they see fit (within the rules of matchdays as APL governs), and folks are mindful enough of those around them, to make football the main focus, as at long long last NZ gets a 2nd A League club.
I wonder why these same people didn't do the same ideas at Rugby games? Why pick on football?? All it would do is give the club & fans a bad reputation. I hope for footballs sake nothing happens and as Coochie hopes, that fans show up to support this football team. Escapsism for a couple of hours away from politics and life in general.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
I wonder why these same people didn't do the same ideas at Rugby games? Why pick on football?? All it would do is give the club & fans a bad reputation. I hope for footballs sake nothing happens and as Coochie hopes, that fans show up to support this football team. Escapsism for a couple of hours away from politics and life in general.
🤷♂️ It’s something a bit new.
The owner is openly pro-Trump and donated to him.We’re talking about a guy who got police killed because he wouldn’t admit that he lost. That doesn’t seem to exercise the righties as much as people saying he’s the worst kind of dickhead.
Rugby used to be much more at the forefront of politics than it is, particularly the politics of racism and empire. Honorary whites, the African Olympic boycott, the 1981 Springbok tour breaching a Commonwealth agreement against sporting contact…and not mixing sport and politics was the motto of those in the wrong then.
Football has a fan culture that’s different to rugby.
I mean if a few people chanting or whatever is going to give you more of a bad reputation than openly supporting Trump, who openly supports Putin and the aggression from Israel, let alone that Bibi is hiding out in office to avoid corruption charges, then… well I guess that’s all down to what you think is a bad reputation.
Trump is an authoritarian and a racist, who wants to decrease the democracy in the US and further politicise its public service to do what he says without referring to studies, science or any other considerations. Political control is good for monopolies and billionaires. They know who to deal with and can ignore the rest.
Somethings happened already- self appointed fan detectives decided to spy on this group. And the righties embarrassing themselves so far with their hyperventilating and hypocrisy.
As I said in the other thread politically open owners/administrators is rare for NZ, as is this politically defined fan group. But that’s already two groups of people who weren’t involved with the previous Auckland football teams.
I think we were okay in Wellington when Tomer Hemed took his celebrations a bit too far. He pulled back on that. I think this will be fine personally.
The main thing is if you have an issue approach the group directly as fan to fan, or get the Port to approach them on behalf of their fan group, if they have a structure that allows that, rather than make it into a media beat up.
The problem is more likely to come from people outside the fandom than in it.
And if you’re in the Yellow Fever with no plans to visit Auckland no worries, nothing to do with us, tbh.
But it never hurts to think too- who else around the world gets to enjoy a game of football and other middle class lifestyle perks? South Africans of similar cultural backgrounds need patrolled suburbs and fortresses to do so. Thinking about how we can increase the number of people who enjoy a country at peace enough to enjoy a day at the football never hurts, whether it’s by accepting more refugees or by supporting other initiatives.
I wonder why these same people didn't do the same ideas at Rugby games? Why pick on football?? All it would do is give the club & fans a bad reputation. I hope for footballs sake nothing happens and as Coochie hopes, that fans show up to support this football team. Escapsism for a couple of hours away from politics and life in general.
To be fair I think Doloras has said a few of T-AFC are already supporters of Manurewa FC (or was it Manukau), ie they are football not rugby fans
I was trying to find a picture of protesters after the Waikato game. Or the ones of the people who got pulled out of their houses that night and beaten up. Difficult to find. Probably through a still frame on something like this: https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/patu-1983 Rugby has always had its own subtle way of eliminating dissent! That’s probably the simplest reason for politics free rugby of the past. Though more RW footy clubs like Lazio and the one Thom Doyle went to in Germany were probably similar in approach.
That’s why Johnny Warren’s book is named as it was. At that time local soccer was those unloved folk on the margins of society.
I wonder why these same people didn't do the same ideas at Rugby games? Why pick on football?? All it would do is give the club & fans a bad reputation. I hope for footballs sake nothing happens and as Coochie hopes, that fans show up to support this football team. Escapsism for a couple of hours away from politics and life in general.
To be fair I think Doloras has said a few of T-AFC are already supporters of Manurewa FC (or was it Manukau), ie they are football not rugby fans
Manukau United, and the support goes both ways. MUFC board member and former captain Hone Fowler went on an aid mission to Gaza in 2010. His father Roger is a long-time radical leftist who was on the field at Hamilton in 1981, to link this back into the other discussion. (Although if everyone who says they were on the field in Hamilton really was it would have looked like Woodstock lol.)
Remember that one of the reasons the nation got in behind the All Whites in 1982 is that the All Blacks thoroughly disgraced themselves in 1981. Football participation went through the roof, the Halt All Racist Tours organisation had their own team operating out of Mt Wellington if I remember right. I enjoy wandering the very gentrified streets around Eden Park and marvelling that, a few decades ago, there was a near-civil war going on in these very streets.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
I wonder why these same people didn't do the same ideas at Rugby games? Why pick on football?? All it would do is give the club & fans a bad reputation. I hope for footballs sake nothing happens and as Coochie hopes, that fans show up to support this football team. Escapsism for a couple of hours away from politics and life in general.
To be fair I think Doloras has said a few of T-AFC are already supporters of Manurewa FC (or was it Manukau), ie they are football not rugby fans
Manukau United, and the support goes both ways. MUFC board member and former captain Hone Fowler went on an aid mission to Gaza in 2010. His father Roger is a long-time radical leftist who was on the field at Hamilton in 1981, to link this back into the other discussion. (Although if everyone who says they were on the field in Hamilton really was it would have looked like Woodstock lol.)
Remember that one of the reasons the nation got in behind the All Whites in 1982 is that the All Blacks thoroughly disgraced themselves in 1981. Football participation went through the roof, the Halt All Racist Tours organisation had their own team operating out of Mt Wellington if I remember right. I enjoy wandering the very gentrified streets around Eden Park and marvelling that, a few decades ago, there was a near-civil war going on in these very streets.
Nice display of a sense of humour Doloras ..."(Although if everyone who says they were on the field in Hamilton really was it would have looked like Woodstock lol.)". You are correct & funny.
Didn't McPhail & Gadsby rename "Halt All Racist Tours" to "Fight All Racist Tours" if I remember correctly.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
My redneck farmer dad took us kids to our first sookah games at QE II Park, where the AWs had 1 or 2 warmup friendlies (Hungary??) in the leadup to Espana '82.
He had played, reffed & coached rugby all his life. Once apparently whacked Grizz Wylie in a North Canterbury club game. He went to Lancaster Park to watch the Springboks in 1981 sans us kids, as he thought it was too dangerous.
At the beginning of 1982 all the boys at Amberley Primary School wanted to switch from rugby to the world game, but the staunch old school headmaster (he coached the local senior rugby club team) forbade it. From memory he just took the football off us at lunch time.
I remember at high school in the late 80s kids still agruing over the merits of the '81 tour, basically parroting the polarising views of their parents.
It was a different time & place. Surprising a movie has never come out about it all. Visited the prison that held Mandela and the ANC guys on Robben Island near Cape Town and thought back to '81.
This reminds me of something I've only learnt about recently, i.e. the similar way that rugby league was effectively banned from schools back in the day. And of course league was very much a working-class sport, strong in the unions. The story goes that a couple of young lads living in Glen Innes in the 60s wanted to play league but their teacher wouldn't allow it. So their dad had a word to Bill Andersen - City Newton club stalwart, union leader and communist - who had a word to certain union brothers, and that school didn't get any coal deliveries until that teacher had a change of heart.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Yeh, my old man never protested, but 1981 after decades of coaching rugby , on and off, he coached a soccer team.
This is quickly becoming the 70s and 80s nostalgia thread!
If you can stomach the anti-tour perspective that documentary Patu is free through NZ on Screen. It was made a year or two after so it has an authenticity to that time period. There’s a few other TV shows there too, but they’re more looking back.
- Harris mentions casually she worked at Mickey D's as a teen. - She can't provide proof of this because who the hell keeps records who who worked at Mickey D's 40 years ago. - The Trumpers start screeching about LIES LIES FROM TINY EYES - Trumpy closes a McDonalds, kicks everyone out but his toadies, cooks up a batch of fries and pretends to give them to someone. - the Right-wing press all go into autofellatio about what a BRILLIANT photo op this is and how it's totally owned Harris. - Normal people scratch their heads and go ???
To be fair, this isn't the first time they thought they'd won the election with a photo - the last time was when that loon shot Trumpy in the ear in Pennsylvania and he did the Epic Fist Pose. I don't think a single photo wins an election out of the fever dreams of 90s TV drama writers.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
They didn't even ask her for proof, their proof was that it's not on her resume...
I mean, I don't put my jobs as a student on my cv either because their not relevant for my career. McDonald is not relevant to someone who is an attorney
Sorry if its been posted about before dont normally watch stuff with Trump in because he gives me the sharks. But watched that speech of his talking about Arnold Palmer bloody hell that was creepy especially his i love women part then today you hear he admires some things Hitler did. WTF. Not that i think much of Harris but the yanks are bat shyte crazy they elect him.
I wouldn't say batshark crazy. A lot of my friends are batshark crazy and would never vote for a fascist. Let's say it plain: fascism, or something very close to it (the Orbán regime in Hungary is probably the closest parallel) is on the ballot in the US and 45+% of voters like what they see.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Trump is hugely unpopular outside of the US. But we mostly just see his crazy highly unpleasant stuff (and there is plenty of it), the blatant lying and the rest.
But we don't live Stateside and I doubt many of us closely follow the real issues that matter to Americans. Like apparently neither candidate is really campaigning on climate change at all. It's not a major issue there it seems.
I'm guessing there is the far right MAGA conservative voters that most of us would hate being in the company of who adore Trump. Then there is die hard Democrat voters who despise him. And/or voters who have a strong counter view to Trumpy on single issues like abortion.
But then you have that large swathe of the middle, to whom policies matter. Specificially the policies that affect them. They can put the personalities of the two candidates aside and coldly assess, who they would prefer to have in the Oval Office, and who will best improve their day to day lives. Stuff like cost of living, job security, cost of housing, child care, medical care, international relations, homeland security, immigration - all that boring stuff.
I have no idea, and I imagine most folks outside the US would have no idea - who is bringing to the best game to the table for that sort of stuff. I mean that stuff doesn't really affect us, so why study it in depth. We just focus on the sensational stories and the sound bites.
But I imagine that's where the election will be won & lost. Less the personalties and more the best policies for me, as a middle American sees it.
There are no policies, just broad statements, vague promises, and "concepts of a plan".
If people vote on policies I'd want to know what those policies are. Their political ads and debates definitely don't talk about them, it's all personal attacks.
