Politics - a place to rant

I mean I remembered watching a film about the referendum in Chile. 

The granny who was upper middle class didn’t know about the disappeared or the rest. Military governments weren’t unusual in Latin America and university was cheaper for her grandson. What doesn’t affect us directly…

It’s always a continuum. And frankly our current government in New Zealand is more authoritarian than its predecessors back to Muldoon. Democracy isn’t just one vote to choose a ruler, it’s a lot of other freedoms and participations. 

It’s hard to say in the US. Quite often people hold their nose and vote, but would never say that to a pollster. 

And sometimes the politicians start movements that get out of their control. 

The odd thing for me this election is how many Republicans have come out for Harris. 

I suppose it’s also about mobilizing voters. For example there was talk about abortion being a key issue. There’s also been some talk about Arab American voters staying home. 

I agree, often we don’t realise what the key issue was until it’s done. 

And also there is still major misinformation going on- I heard 30% believe there was election tampering. Few are aware of the good economic record Biden had. 

I think a difficult concept for NZ voters are things that political tribes say as articles of faith- something clearly wrong, but to belong to their particular group they have to believe it, but probably deep down know is bs. That seems more prevalent in the US.

martinb

I mean I remembered watching a film about the referendum in Chile. 

The granny who was upper middle class didn’t know about the disappeared or the rest. Military governments weren’t unusual in Latin America and university was cheaper for her grandson. What doesn’t affect us directly…

It’s always a continuum. And frankly our current government in New Zealand is more authoritarian than its predecessors back to Muldoon. Democracy isn’t just one vote to choose a ruler, it’s a lot of other freedoms and participations. 

Chile not the worst analogy. To this day there are deep divisions in Chile about the legacy of polarising Pinochet. Often it is the older generation (did well in that time) verus today's younger generation who are struggling to get ahead. Pinochet proceeded over an era of strong economic growth, with Chile the stand out economy on the continent. 

Many Chileans growing up in that era, were happy that they had the best standard of living in Sth America, not caring so much that they had a military dictator in charge. Every day life was pretty stable. Remembering that across the Andes, neighbour Argentina as a comparison has with a succession of incompetents in charge, often been an unstable basket case with hyperinflation making life very hard.

dp

Alot of American voters stick to their party, usually one that their family has voted for forever!
Conservatives love trump, Christians love trump because of his one liners on abortion etc. The anti-immigration crowd love trump because he buys into their stories about Hispanics eating their pets. Then you have the less conservative but no less anti-government machinery (the swamp) groups who love trump because he is not a Clinton, or Kennedy or one of the many lifetime politicians. All this adds up to a continued growth in the red/Trump support. 
Remembering of course is not the popular vote that wins the election!!!

Important to be very f- aware that that economic growth in Pinochet’s Chile was without freedom and was enjoyed only by the top echelons of society. You had a car, but you could not speak or be honest. Rewards were based on cronyism, not merit.

Pinochet deposed an elected government. During his rule 80,000 people were rounded up and incarcerated. Many of those were tortured. 

The were around 3,100 people who are called the disappeared. They were taken and never returned, never seen again. 

In the economic front, his supporters were rewarded with the cheap sale of ex-government property. The rights of workers were trampled on so that they did not enjoy the fruits of this economic growth, and within an oppressive national environment, had oppressive working environments where contracts were individualised and no one checked for abuses by employers. 

If that seems familiar, our legislation of the 1990s was based on a Chilean framework and breached international standards. 

The man himself was of course corrupt and enriched himself considerably through abusing his position. 

So while some enjoyed their life, they did it by literally sacrificing others in their society in an almost perfect example of the bs of using economic growth as a standard by which to measure the effectiveness of an economy.

Seen through our lens sitting comfortably in NZ, Australia, Japan or similar it's very black and white. The General was one evil dude. But then we have never dealt with 600% inflation, rapidly eroding our comfortable way of life.

Living in London in the late 1990s I had a Kiwi flatmate who on weekends went to protest outside the Chilean embassy. Pincohet was in London getting cancer treatment. Her parents had fled after the 1973 coup, and settled in Christchurch. I'm guessing Macro Rojas's whanau might have a similar story.

I had 4 days in Santiago and Valparaíso in early 2017. Got a small picture of the pais. I'm a history tragic, and did an informative walking tour around the capital. The Presidential Palace still shows scars of the coup, alot of us would have seen the black & white footage of jets bombing the Palace. Did Allende commit suicide or was he murdered? Learning a little about Latin America's most famous poet the communist and Noble Prize winner Neruda, who may have been poisoned on Pincohet's orders. 

But to many Chileans the history of the dictator is a very complex one, and a large part of the population think his presidency was a good thing for Chile. The poverty level in Argentina after it's history of left wing Peronism (10 of the last 14 governments??) is sitting around 50% now, in Chile & Uruguay it's down in the 11-13% range. 

Chile having a strong economy by Latino standards has attracted a big number of Venezuelan economic refugees, who are quick to tell the locals about the danger of embracing a strongly socialist ideology. Venezuela despite being oil rich, is almost a failed state, and millions of Venezuelans have migrated to every corner of the continent. 

When I crossed the Argy-Chilean border in Patagonia, went into a restaurant and there was a 20 yr waiter who had travelled for week from Caracas to there. Back home he closed his eyes and put his finger on a Sth American map. Where his finger landed he went to. Patagonian Chile it was. Incredible guts. And we think our lives are tough.

Chile also strangely has a big population of French speaking Haitians. Only part of Sth America I came across them. Not sure if they eat dogs in Santiago, but they do get blamed (probably fairly as there are basically no other visible black people in Chile I could see) for alot of the crime. If a man of a darker hue steals my bag at knifepoint, and his Spanish is sketchy.......

So yeah Pinochet does have some parallels with Trump. To most of the outside world these are very bad men, but in their home countries for various reasons they have swathes of strong support.

Basically seems a growing trend in Latin America, of people wanting 'strong government' - folks tiring of the bedfellows of rampant inflation, increasing  poverty and rising crime. Turns out you can live in a democracy and be more miserable than living under a dictator.

Although with the widespread income disparity it's commonly the hard right like Pinchet and his mates who are very wealthy, there have also been big numbers of left wing/socialist politicians who have corrupted the system to enrich themselves and their families. Of course at the same time campaigning to help the working class.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/a-half-century-after-pinochets-coup-some-chileans-remember-the-brutal-dictatorship-fondly

But as Chile marks the 50th anniversary next Monday of the coup that brought Pinochet to power for almost 17 years, many in the country don’t see it as a dark day. Amid a weak economy and a surge in violent crime, recent polls show that many Chileans don’t think human rights are as much of a priority.

They are grappling with what they see as Pinochet’s complicated legacy at a time when a large number have told pollsters they are losing faith in democracy.

“Before, there wasn’t as much wickedness as there is now,” said Ana María Román Vera, 62, who sells lottery tickets. “You didn’t see as many robberies.”

A July poll by the Center for Public Studies, a Chile-based foundation, found that 66 percent of respondents agreed with the statement that rather than worry about the rights of individuals, the country needs a firm government. That is more than double the 32 percent who agreed with the statement fewer than four years ago.

In Chile, 9/11 was a landmark before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the U.S. because it was the date of the 1973 coup in the South American country. That significance, though, has been changing. Polling shows more than one-third of Chileans today justify the military takeover of a democratically elected government that went on to violate human rights, murder opponents, cancel elections, restrict the media, suppress labor unions and disband political parties.

“There should be an overwhelming majority of Chileans who denounce the dictatorship and the military coup and acknowledge that the military destroyed democracy,” said Marta Lagos, director of the regional polling firm Latinobarómetro and founder of pollster Mori Chile. “That would be the normal situation in a normal country. But that’s not the case.”

Late last month, leftist President Gabriel Boric unveiled what will effectively be the first state-sponsored plan to try to locate the approximately 1,162 victims of the dictatorship who remain missing.

Yet even as Boric’s government and human rights organizations plan events to mark the coup anniversary, many in Chile don’t appear to see the ousting of a democratically elected leader as wrong.

A poll earlier this year by Lagos’ firm found that 36 percent of Chileans believe the military “freed” Chile “from Marxism” when it deposed leftist democratically elected president Salvador Allende, who came into power in 1970 and killed himself the day of the coup. The poll found that 42 percent said the coup destroyed democracy, the lowest number since 1995.

Pinochet led the coup at a time when the country was mired in an economic crisis that included scarcity of food and galloping inflation that reached an annual rate of 600 percent. When the military took over it implemented a free-market economy that suddenly meant those with means could go on a consumerism binge even as the poverty rate soared.

Retired accountant Sergio Gómez Martínez, 72, said that “fortunately, Augusto Pinochet led the coup” against Allende’s socialist government. He argued that his economic wellbeing improved under the right-wing military government “because there was order, employment, and the countryside and industries began to produce.”

Almost four in 10 Chileans think Pinochet’s 1973-1990 rule modernized the country and 20 percent see the dictator as one of the best rulers of 20th-century Chile, according to the Mori survey.

A regional survey by Latinobarómetro this year found that only 48 percent of Latin Americans think that democracy is preferable to any other form of government, which marks a 15-point drop from 2010.

“Chileans got used to living with Pinochet,” Lagos said. “Pinochet, I believe, is the only dictator in Western contemporary history, during this century and the last century, who, 50 years after his coup, is still appreciated by 30 or 40 percent of a country’s population.”

I don’t imagine those pining for Pinochet-like rule are those who still don’t know what happened to their family members. The people who want Pinochet back aren’t asking for their careers to be nobbled or their outspoken daughter kidnapped from her university and tortured. 

I’m not pitching left or right here. To me it’s a right or wrong equation. 

It’s almost like the way the spirit of the Blitz is invoked or misused to support Brexit. It’s a nostalgia for something that fewer and people lived truly experienced. It’s an invented nostalgia, often for a country that never existed.

We get it here to a degree about the 70s, forgetting the oil shocks and the inflation, the difficulty of travel and how little consumer choice there was. 

It’s like the much quieter nostalgia held by some for Apartheid South Africa when vast wealth channeled to a few. But it’s the same principle, but with a clear racism at the front to make its distaste easier.

People are happy for other people to sacrifice again, to get their privileged position back. Or what their TV told them they are entitled to- this election was stolen, my job was stolen, we had it all in the glorious time before x,y or z.

That Humpty Dumpty wasn’t put back together again well or at all in some places, doesn’t justify what came before it. 

But perhaps that’s the problem with Trump also, that it is so easy to demonise other groups of people to the point where you don’t mind extra-judicial killing, imprisonment without charge or trial, issues with the rule of law and so on. The genuine solidarity between people against tyranny has broken down.

The other difference is that we’re talking about the US, that doesn’t have a history of military rule and that nations it compares itself to in culture are supposed to be the international role models of democracy. They dine out on being the heroes of the ‘good’ war.

A general taking over in a coup is one thing, but a candidate drawing support and promising to disembowel and remake US democracy in his own narcissistic image is another. For him, in the US, to openly float clouding the line between military and civil leadership and to threaten to use the military to get personal revenge is just wrong and hideous beyond anything previously precedented.

For the candidate to have his former chief of staff and a general in an army of a democracy call him a fascist is shocking. For it not to move the lever at all is terrifying.

I’ve honestly been trying not to think about this election, because it seems like an issue can’t be solved at the ballot box and must be solved within the soul of the Republican Party or by a splintering within the two-party system, which might leave things worse. 

You’re all heading into summer so I guess it’s easier to be hopeful! I feel a tui (the bird, not the beer) and a mince and cheese pie would deal to a lot of this angst or at least help to get back to denial until the results are out. 

I guess also that the brutality and corruption of Pinochet is associated with modernisation. 

But as with the recent round of retrenchments in NZ, there is always more than one way to do things. 

One example is the ripping off the bandage/ pulling the mat out from under reforms in New Zealand compared to reforms in Australia that were more gradual and saw people at the lower end still have award wages. 

Or an even more puffball example. To get GPS and an estimated arrival time for a taxi you don’t have get a handling fee, a service fee and surge pricing. These are things that don’t benefit consumers and the model doesn’t benefit drivers. It’s certainly not the sharing economy it was billed as. 

People are not pining for service fees or to have their holidays and sick pay removed. They want the innovation of reliable arrival times and swift information about problems. 

And lastly, a true test of a society is how they treat their weakest members.

I have to say, if I have not said enough, your trip sounds amazing and all the Chileans I have ever met seemed like very cool people. Apparently they have population centres at similar latitudes and so some of their suburbs look a bit familiar as the climate has similarities.

I remember at some point there was a worry we were buying their farms to grow apples and kiwi fruit and other nationalities were buying our farms. Or some fear of our IP apples being pinched or something.

Apparently they have a bit of a reputation for arrogance as a nation among other South Americans, but I can’t speak to that personally. 

Yes my experience is Peruvians don't like them. In 2017 in the last round of CONEMBOL WC qualifying, matches all the games were simultanous kick offs.

In the last few minutes word got through to the players on the pitch of Colombia verus Peru (1-1 scoreline) in Lima, that Chile were 3-0 down against Brazil. That result meant Chile gonna finish 6th on GD to Peru (5th), with Colombia a point ahead in 4th. The Peruvian & Colombian players started whispering to each other and basically stopped playing.

Colombia were off to the Russia WC, Peru just had to play NZ in the playoff, and the common enemy Chile were out. Everyone was delighted except the crying Chileans. Remembering they had won the two preceding Copa Americas, so there was quite a bit of jealous anti Chilean sentiment around.

Seems that both Chileans and Argentinians are often disliked in the latin countries with the bigger indigenous populations like Paraguay, Bolivia, Peru and Ecuador. Chile and Argentina look a lot more towards Europe, and have millions of people with Italian, Spanish, German, French even English heritage. Very small indigenous populations. Heard a story that the Chilean police force is the least corrupt in Sth America, because it has a history of recruiting from it's German ex pat/heritage popn. Of course the odd Nazi may have hidden away in there.

To be honest I can sympathise with Chileans and Argentinians being a bit snobbish. The education system in Peru is very basic, so most of the population to be rudely blunt ain't that bright, and daily you'd just see stuff that makes you shake your head. Kinda cute and chilled start with to (tranquillo, manana manana), then increasingly frustrating the more time you spend there. 

Covid just magnified it. Having to walk through a disinfectant foot trough to enter a store, security guards making you wear 2 masks to enter, when 5 metres away 4 taxi drivers unmasked are sharing a beer. The requirement at one stage to wear gloves to go supermarket shopping. 

The drawn out slow routine of the check out chick/bloke swiping all the items, only then when that is finished packing them into the bags. The customer in front of you just standing and watching why they do it. The traffic light goes green and a millisecond later, a queue of cars are tooting their horns. A family go to the beach, eat & drink, get up and leave all their plastic & glass garbage in the sand. The bin is 10 metres away. Passengers exit a van taxi, and just kick their empty plastic bottles out into the pavement. A guy buys 2 bananas and without anyone even thinking it's put into a plastic bag. Apparently Easter Island's beaches are smothered with human trash. You don't need to be oceanographer to work the fudge out where it has come from. It's sort of depressing when you think of your own small solo atttempts to recycle, do the right thing etc. It's like the polar opposite of how I imagine Japan to be.

So yeah I don't blame the Chileans & Argies for being a little arrogant. They are more like us. And yeah Chile is very similar to NZ geographically, and landscape wise - though they have more desert that us for sure. My uncle (ex Lincoln Uni) who has lived here in QLD since 1968, is an avocado/mango expert. Now retired he consulted around the world including numerous trips to Chile advising on avos. He always said it was the best paid ($USD) but toughest trip, as they worked him there from dawn to dusk.

Japan is good and bad on rubbish. 

Here there are very few public bins and it’s your responsibility to take it away. Usually convenience stores and train stations have bins, though not always the latter.

There’s not the same reverence for the natural world we have (had?) in New Zealand in the ‘tidy Kiwi’ phase. 

There is a small minority who just leave trash on a beach, but then it’s rare for others to clean that up. 
And of course, if those beaches are remotely near the major population centres there’s a lot of microplastics which, irrespective of well meaning groups doing occasional beach clean ups, is the real issue.

Similarly in some public parks you’ll find some people just leave plastic after their lunch, or cans and cigarette butts after smoking. In some places there’s a bit of cultural tension between those locals maintaining the parks and those using them this way and almost marking their territory.

There’s responsibility for the spot in front of your house, but if you live in a low tax city area where they don’t have proper protection from crows they will rip the plastic rubbish bags and spread the garbage all over the place, and quite often no one will clean it up for days, if at all. 

As well there’s also a kind of feeling if you get something from a small vendor or a vending machine you should be able to return the rubbish there. 

Higher taxes you get a neighborhood bin and often some decent larger local parks, but well, higher local taxes. I found one park that unfortunately required driving, but had a warning about wild boar! Not what you’d expect at the Domain.

I hear here that the recycling is mostly using the energy created from burning things. However, there is a strong movement for ‘my bag’ and ‘my bottle’ ie taking reusable items rather than purchasing one use things.

Japan has also had 30 years of an economy of little or no growth, so the expectations are things are very different. And in places there was rapid expansion and now a minimal maintenance budget. 

A lot of things got done in the 80s and a lot of concrete was used, particularly around the coast. Some of the places away from the most popular tourist places look a little tired and dusty. You stay in a magnificent ryokan if you look at 90% of facilities, but you realise that outdoor pool is never opening again. 

There’s also plenty of people who like say hiking or wind surfing, but I feel like a significant number of people will go to these places for a night, drink, do karaoke, look at the view out a window, have a bath and go home. The culture isn’t reflexively outdoors, the way kiwi culture is. People have small apartments and enormous TVs.

There’s certainly an over plastic problem here which comes with a germophobe culture. One piece of fruit can be on a polystyrene tray, wrapped in plastic and then placed into a plastic bag. I’ve seen it argued that compared to the US and a few other countries the plastic isn’t as thick and so on mass Japan has much less plastic waste per person. And there’s a lot of different fruit from many differing vendors. The most wrapped are often premium fruit taken to work or other occasions to give as gifts. 

I haven’t done as much traveling in Japan as I would like, nor in New Zealand for that matter. I haven’t really been up into the mountains or into the countryside away from the tourist trails here. But compared to NZ there’s a lot of concrete here to control things. 
And the zoning laws are a bit different which sometimes produces nice little alleyways with local restaurants or shops, but also areas that are visually blander than Kiwis are used to along main roads.

A lot of things are almost bigger on the inside. You’ll see a bland tower, but each shop, restaurant, bar or business is amazing inside, but you’d have no idea from outside. That’s a cultural difference too.

It’s that kind of indoor privacy type culture here. 

I have to be honest the thing I enjoyed most about the service culture here is sadly now ‘catching up’ on NZ. Supermarkets with self service checkouts are on the rise. They were limited when I got here. 

Again a little off topic, but in politics we often compare ourselves with others. And I can hear that frustration of a tipping point of an ex-pat grown exasperated with the local culture. For some Americans here that’s months, depending on their personalities and superiority complexes!

Interesting observations on Japan and the trash. Never been but everyone I have who has always remarks how spotless it is, and how locals seem disciplined to use the bins. Maybe that's more big city Tokyo, and/or the tourist spots.

And yeah for sure whever you go as a foreigner there is parts of the local culture that frustrate. No real surprise I felt that less in the more developed Sth American countries. Like I really think I could make a life in Buenos Aires.

Seeing folks have no respect for the environment and just dropping trash anywhere, is something I really struggle to watch. It's why I didn't get that excited about visiting 'beautiful' Bali. Their beaches are a mess. Went snorkelling there once, I hopped back into the boat after 30 mins with my pockets fill with plastic rubbish, to make a point. The local guides just shrugged their shoulders and said it all came on the tides from Java.

It’s degrees I guess. Japan’s very much a first world country, with a cultural expectation of cleanliness and personal responsibility for waste. 

Quite often though what we might expect government to do falls on individuals and local communities. Sometimes it falls on corporations.

Often if it’s not yours you don’t touch it. For example, if you drop your hat on the street you can retrace your steps, the next day even and it quite likely is still there. Perhaps someone has put it on a pole or fence off the ground, but it’s in the same area.

I notice the exceptions particularly because they’re unusual and places where there are issues in the system. Usually these are mostly suburban issues, where there are no or few retail places and not much for travelers!

Inside malls and department stores is particularly flash. 
And also crows were an issue where we were and we moved away from there. Our huge shock of the last year was someone wrote a tag on our bin. It seems like a one off for our area. There’s a little tagging in some places, under bridges and so on but it reflects really poorly on an area that has it. 

Homeless people don’t usually show themselves as homeless in public. They either live in manga cafe or they live in hidden shanty towns around certain rivers.

It’s different as well in that there’s no street parking or grass verges. Bicycles usually have a large number of parks at any store such as a supermarket and aren’t seen as an impediment to business.

I can’t recall having seen anyone littering in public. 

I guess what I’m saying is litter is the exception to the rule and usually it’s either people who weren’t being watched drinking and being irresponsible or it’s the cheap rubbish disposal system in some suburbs. 

Coochie mate, be careful- I hear crime is outa control in Queensland too! Strewth. Lock up the beer fridge.

All those pals of yours who ditched NZ for the crime free haven that’s Queensland can come back this way!

Crisafulli campaigned strongly on getting tough on crime, which he says is "out of control" in the state.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/532036/australian-liberal-national-party-claims-victory-in-queensland-election

It's become one of de rigeur political campaign message worldwide to be fair, by right wing pollies. 'We will get tough on crime' often in tow with 'We will close the borders to the dog eating immigrants'.

Didn't follow the election here much. Not a Aus citizen, can't vote, and the issues are not that interesting. One of the symptons of being in such an easily liveable place, there ain't really that much to get fist waving upset about.

Beautiful one day, perfect the next, eh?👍

martinb

Beautiful one day, perfect the next, eh?👍

Wouldn't go that far. I'm sure the true blue QLDrs get fired about all sorts of local stuff. My elderly neighbour told me he would vote Labour in this election, because they were offering free lunches to all QLD school children if re-elected. Each to their own.

I mean it's all pretty tame stuff compared to what's current happening Stateside, in France, Ukraine, the Middle East or elsewhere.

Humans being humans we will find something to moan about. From music concerts being too loud in Mt Eden, to my dog going missing in Detroit or my daugher being held hostage in Gaza (not to belittle the latter). But some issues are a bit more interesting than others.

Oh no extra meaning-  that was the Queensland tourism slogan when I was living there! Certainly didn’t feel wrong in sunny 20 degree winters.

Orange man is getting more unhinged by the day.  

Well this is depressing as fudge. 

Only if you are a left wing socialist. 

Procrastinixing

Well this is depressing as fudge. 

Relief.  Sing it!

This is what happens when you put up a complete sharkshow of an opposition to a 78 year old convicted felon.

America is a fudgeing nonsense. A third world nonsense.

Leggy

Only if you are a left wing socialist. 

Procrastinixing

Well this is depressing as fudge. 

caring about democracy and liberty is not socialism.

Ryan

Leggy

Only if you are a left wing socialist. 

Procrastinixing

Well this is depressing as fudge. 

caring about democracy and liberty is not socialism.

Well there’s national socialists like Leggy, Carl Rackemann and Trump and then there’s some other kind…

Say what you will about Trump & whether or not he is good for America but this is 100% bad for NZ. 

Tarriffs on many of our products we export. A less connected world with a more insular USA. China being emboldened by a weak USA which could drag us into trade conflicts with Aussie & China. Complete U turns on foreign policy around Russia & Israel = likely a more unsettled world and further trade issues for us.

All things which will impact on us. 

He appears to have successfully convinced the American public his return will mean lower prices. A welcome concept for a country that suffered through a period of four-decade-high inflation. Unfortunately for Biden and Harris, even though inflation appears to have been steadied, the public has not yet gotten used to the new higher level of prices.

While many of the economy's fundamentals like unemployment and growth are strong, inflation is political poison. Kamala Harris never seemed totally comfortable when discussing the economy.

Immigration may well prove to be the major misstep by the Biden/Harris team. They came to office and overturned many of Trump's hardline immigration policies. They had mocked his plans for a border wall and softened restrictions. Illegal immigration swelled during their term, reaching a monthly high in December last year of nearly 250,000 people 

None of these scandals seemed to impact his support. Perhaps the public doesn't believe any of them were disqualifying. Perhaps they think other issues like the economy and immigration are more important.

Whatever the case may be, the American people know Donald Trump to a detail that is quite unprecedented. This isn't a vote steeped in ignorance.

There is a notable cohort of the population who genuinely adores him, who see him as their nation's saviour.

But they weren't the reason he was able to eke out this victory; there were many people who voted for Donald Trump, who aren't blindly enamoured by him.

They have experienced four years of the alternative and decided he deserved another shot.

Devastating but not at all surprising.

To fanboys Foley and Musk, the voters, including the climate deniers, the people okay with racist, sexist, violent language, someone whose supporters' group contributed to the deaths of six innocent people, is a convicted felon and buddy buddy with one of the worst human beings in the world, this is for you.

Thanks so much for bringing this POS back into office.

The dogs and cats of America, will sleep safely tonight 

Enough said about that country, you got what you deserve 

Nixieboys222

He appears to have successfully convinced the American public his return will mean lower prices. A welcome concept for a country that suffered through a period of four-decade-high inflation. Unfortunately for Biden and Harris, even though inflation appears to have been steadied, the public has not yet gotten used to the new higher level of prices.

While many of the economy's fundamentals like unemployment and growth are strong, inflation is political poison. Kamala Harris never seemed totally comfortable when discussing the economy.

Immigration may well prove to be the major misstep by the Biden/Harris team. They came to office and overturned many of Trump's hardline immigration policies. They had mocked his plans for a border wall and softened restrictions. Illegal immigration swelled during their term, reaching a monthly high in December last year of nearly 250,000 people 

None of these scandals seemed to impact his support. Perhaps the public doesn't believe any of them were disqualifying. Perhaps they think other issues like the economy and immigration are more important.

Whatever the case may be, the American people know Donald Trump to a detail that is quite unprecedented. This isn't a vote steeped in ignorance.

There is a notable cohort of the population who genuinely adores him, who see him as their nation's saviour.

But they weren't the reason he was able to eke out this victory; there were many people who voted for Donald Trump, who aren't blindly enamoured by him.

They have experienced four years of the alternative and decided he deserved another shot.

The only way that I can imagine economic performance negatively impacting the current administration is if people in America are extremely inward looking and not inquisitive about the world around them.

anaveragestem

Say what you will about Trump & whether or not he is good for America but this is 100% bad for NZ. 

Tarriffs on many of our products we export. A less connected world with a more insular USA. China being emboldened by a weak USA which could drag us into trade conflicts with Aussie & China. Complete U turns on foreign policy around Russia & Israel = likely a more unsettled world and further trade issues for us.

All things which will impact on us. 

This is also 100% a massive setback for the world in relation to the climate. Greenpeace and the other climate groups in the US and should start taking all the legal action they can against him and his administration now before he returns to power. I would also like to see significant international pressure from the likes of the EU.

Yeh, negative feedback loop locked in for climate change. 

A bunch of places where insurance and governments will stop guaranteeing and life savings put into housing will be worthless. 

Joe Rogan and the loopy Kennedy running the CDC. Fun, fun. 

Bullion

Nixieboys222

He appears to have successfully convinced the American public his return will mean lower prices. A welcome concept for a country that suffered through a period of four-decade-high inflation. Unfortunately for Biden and Harris, even though inflation appears to have been steadied, the public has not yet gotten used to the new higher level of prices.

While many of the economy's fundamentals like unemployment and growth are strong, inflation is political poison. Kamala Harris never seemed totally comfortable when discussing the economy.

Immigration may well prove to be the major misstep by the Biden/Harris team. They came to office and overturned many of Trump's hardline immigration policies. They had mocked his plans for a border wall and softened restrictions. Illegal immigration swelled during their term, reaching a monthly high in December last year of nearly 250,000 people 

None of these scandals seemed to impact his support. Perhaps the public doesn't believe any of them were disqualifying. Perhaps they think other issues like the economy and immigration are more important.

Whatever the case may be, the American people know Donald Trump to a detail that is quite unprecedented. This isn't a vote steeped in ignorance.

There is a notable cohort of the population who genuinely adores him, who see him as their nation's saviour.

But they weren't the reason he was able to eke out this victory; there were many people who voted for Donald Trump, who aren't blindly enamoured by him.

They have experienced four years of the alternative and decided he deserved another shot.

The only way that I can imagine economic performance negatively impacting the current administration is if people in America are extremely inward looking and not inquisitive about the world around them.

'Inflation is political poison'. Nail on the head.

To many millions of Americans the economy was the no 1 issue. The improving situation there now (slowing inflation, falling interest rates, good jobs data etc), yes came too late to save the Democrats. Your own personal standard of living, is so often one of most important issues for voters in any democracy. Certainly usually more important than any international issues.  Americans ain't any different, and yeah on average maybe more insular than most. But are Kiwi voters for example that different?

The Yanks have had a few very tough economic years, and rightly or wrongly many blame alot of that on the current administration.

Trump's hard line on illegal immigration and crime (bedfellows in his eyes) also won many hearts. Especially it seems somewhat ironically with America's very large legal Latino population.

Well, yes the economy and and democracy were two issues. Of course Biden hasn’t had a fair representation of his record. And on democracy polls showed 30% believed the last election to have been stolen. 

There’s a nice illustrative comparison of the failure of the American dream in this administration. 

Robert McNamara was headhunted by Kennedy from the Ford Motor company where he had been instrumental in introducing seat belts. 

Alongside the vaccine-denying last gasp of the Kennedy dynasty being appointed to the CDC, Trump has headhunted Musk who has produced the vanity project CyberTruck which removes internationally recognised crumple standards.

Nixieboys222

He appears to have successfully convinced the American public his return will mean lower prices. A welcome concept for a country that suffered through a period of four-decade-high inflation. Unfortunately for Biden and Harris, even though inflation appears to have been steadied, the public has not yet gotten used to the new higher level of prices.

While many of the economy's fundamentals like unemployment and growth are strong, inflation is political poison. Kamala Harris never seemed totally comfortable when discussing the economy.

Immigration may well prove to be the major misstep by the Biden/Harris team. They came to office and overturned many of Trump's hardline immigration policies. They had mocked his plans for a border wall and softened restrictions. Illegal immigration swelled during their term, reaching a monthly high in December last year of nearly 250,000 people 

None of these scandals seemed to impact his support. Perhaps the public doesn't believe any of them were disqualifying. Perhaps they think other issues like the economy and immigration are more important.

Whatever the case may be, the American people know Donald Trump to a detail that is quite unprecedented. This isn't a vote steeped in ignorance.

There is a notable cohort of the population who genuinely adores him, who see him as their nation's saviour.

But they weren't the reason he was able to eke out this victory; there were many people who voted for Donald Trump, who aren't blindly enamoured by him.

They have experienced four years of the alternative and decided he deserved another shot.

they put together an immigration plan that was bi partisan and hard line and Trump instructed the Republicans not to sign it because he wanted it to be an election issue. Regardless, someone should read too the American people what it says on the statue of liberty...

Hugely disappointing result yesterday. I knew it would be tough for Harris but thought if she lost it would be a lot tighter. I think Biden needs to be looked at for how long he held onto the Democratic nomination before stepping aside and giving her only nine weeks.

This is potentially hugely worrying for Ukraine, and Moldova and other countries like Estonia may be feeling pretty uncomfortable.  Depending on what happens there and how the world reacts (or doesn’t react), we could see China make moves towards Taiwan.

Despite my disappointment I can 100% see how some of the states voted for him en masse. People talk about the sexism and racism (and many other flaws) of Trump, but one thing people hate more than that is their kids going hungry. If you’re in small town Appalachia and struggling to provide, then as much as you dislike some of the things the man says and does, if you believe he can help your family then I can see how that would get the votes.

The Baltic countries spend above the NATO minimum, so if Trump keeps up the same rhetoric as last time they should be okay.