us elections

Politicians who are religious would usually make choices based on their religion wouldn't they? So how could they keep religion out of politics?

Or by keeping religion out of politics do they mean keeping religious organisations from influencing decisions?loyalgunner2008-01-14 12:30:57

religious organisations obviously influence with their voting power - the US is extremely religious, but like Bopman said, America was founded on the idea of freedom to worship, not Southern Baptist, Bible-literal laws. Look at Utah with its Morman majority...it's very hard to balance the libertarianism that America has always prided itself in (for better or worse) with the religious right that are intent on telling individuals how to live. I mean, Bush harps on about America's "freedom", as opposed to hardline Islamic countries...if America becomes a hardline Baptist country, thats hypocritical, as non-liberal Baptists would want to enforce conservative laws just like non-liberal Muslims

Morals are not the sole preserve of religion. I am aethist but it does not mean I have no moral code. In fact my morals are based around social justice, responsibilities of the well off for the not so well off, for gender and racial equality, and for working towards good in the world. Hence why I tend to support Democrats rather than people in the pockets of oil interests and whose morals claim christian roots but mainly involve trying to shaft as many people as possible to build their own wealth.

Romney scares the sh*t out of me - I would not trust him to give directions to the nearest Wallmart! Huckabee is too much in the hands of people whose idea of religion is that everyone else should believe in what they believe in!!   Guiliani is probably the best of a bad bunch on the Republican side. Grrrr.

I know atheists and non-religious people have a moral code. And yes I agree with Orpewise's morals, it's just there are other things that I consider to be very important as well, and I think Huckabee stands for those things. That's why I would like to see Huckabee win the election.

I respect your different opinion and your right to your own opinion though.loyalgunner2008-01-15 17:16:31

Ron Paul is the only candidate I would go near. Unfortunately, his chances are slim even within the Republican party, plus it's obvious a Democrat will win.

And I couldn't think of anything worse than another Christian fundamentalist at the helm. Keep the state and church separate for the world's sake, please.

How did I stay out of this thread for so long?

It's completely immoral to force someone to have a child that they do not want/cannot provide for.


Arsenal2008-01-15 18:05:00

It's immoral to end a childs life for whatever reason.

theres a greater good argument to be made loyalgunner in terms of abortion. but i understand your position and your beliefs behind it and respect them

When's a 'child' a child?

I'd also like to hear your view on a rape victim's unwanted pregnancy too. Please don't tell me you're that sick?

Thanks bopman.

In my opinion a child is a child from conception. It doesn't go from nothing to something.

And when somebody is raped and has a child that is awful for the mother but in my opinion abortion still isn't right as it is still taking a life.

Well we might support the same team but I think that's where the similarities end.

How old are you btw? I've always assumed you were quite young.

Yeah im 17.

I see.

And I have my opinion on abortion not just from my parents. I've read up on it as well.

wow, its awesome you have such strong opinions for someone so young. i just wouldnt come anywhere near victoria uni mate, youd be about polar opposite on the political spectrum to everyone there.

Yes.

The only stance I don't like from Ron Paul is (ironically) his anti-choice stance on abortion. IMO he isn't a true libertarian unless he embraces choice.

Apart from that though he's got it bang on for mine. As he says, Republicans have absolutely lost their way and have become a big-spending party based on a narrow but powerful christian agenda. They need to get back to their roots.

I suggest watching him in the debates if you haven't already - he really is very good.

No, the internet.

NOT FROM THIS SITE I HOPE!

ive watched all the debates in the last 6 weeks and havnt been impressed by paul at all. in terms of presidential style and delivery (ignoring policy) i think romney has been the best.

No it wasn't from that site.

Sorry, I meant it's immoral for any human to end a childs life for whatever reason.loyalgunner2008-01-15 20:06:28

Ah.

I have a lot of respect for Goldwater, another that was annoyed with the christian takeover of the Republican party. I daresay that the founding fathers too would be pretty sickened by the state of the party right now.

Oh and it does not matter how good he delivers his policy, Romney is a Mormon who supports war, the death penalty, is anti-choice and opposed to gay rights. He couldn't be much worse.

God made life, he can take it. But I don't think we (as humans) have the right to take life.

Have you read much 'opposing' literature? For a place to start, may I recommend Richard Dawkins' 'The God Delusion'. Anyone who holds strong beliefs should always be prepared to have them questioned.

If I had to pick between Obama and Hillary (one of which will realistically be the next President) I'd take Obama. Of all the Democrats, I'd prefer Kucinich.

you like your no-hopers dont ya?

I choose people based on their policies, not how much time they get on cnn.com. Of course my views will differ from the average American, or indeed the average person anywhere in the world.

to be honest i dont know much about him, if you felt like filling me in on what hes about? i took that candidate calculator thing last week and i think i came out as being most compatible with his policies

He's big on labour unions and would be a big spender on social programmes (like any Democrat I guess), which I'm not such a fan of.

However in his favour he is opposed to war, opposed to the Patriot Act and other such anti-democratic measures, opposed to anti-flagburning/freedom of speech legislation and is pro-choice.

Haha I just took this now (the one on votehelp right?) and guess who my top two candidates were?

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich.

i didnt get to it through votehelp i just googled it and it through zaleo or something. but yeah sounds about right

KiwiPie your comment "God does it all the time" is one of the best one line comebacks I have ever seen.

The debate is interesting, thanks guys.

The only reason we care about this I guess is the immense power the US has so the president does matter to some extent. The reality is that corporations, oil money and religion are the defining influences in US. I have democrat friends from Boston who despair about US politics. The election is also about who has the money. Players like Richardson just cannot compete with the warchests that Clinton and Obama have. On the Republication side Romney has so much money its obscene.

isnt it nice then to see that hes not winning