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St Pats Stream .vs. Wellington College

116 replies · 9,404 views
almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We do take football seriously, but maybe play the Sunday games in the afternoon? like 1 or 2pm, means the hangover has a chance to go away!
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SJay wrote:
We do take football seriously!
 
Yet you play for a school, seems a condradition.

A dog with a bone :)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

What is everyone's huge problem with schoolboys football? Overall the top six teams are very evenly matched and in my limited experience it leads to a more flowing and attractive type of football to that of most mens football (albeit the top grade stuff). Plenty of people who take their football seriously play college football and why wouldn't you when you've got coaches like Charlie Howe around?

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Fomble wrote:

What is everyone's huge problem with schoolboys football? Overall the top six teams are very evenly matched and in my limited experience it leads to a more flowing and attractive type of football to that of most mens football (albeit the top grade stuff). Plenty of people who take their football seriously play college football and why wouldn't you when you've got coaches like Charlie Howe around?

 
I dont think anyone has a problem with it... I certainly dont..
 
But after looking at school boys football over the last ten years in wellington i have seen more failures come out of Premier youth grade into senior football than Good Players.. When i say Good player i mean a player who is up to Senior Premier or Central league... Sure some might eventualy get better with a bit more time and make the cut but thats more time in their Football years wasted.. Players who are playing college and quit playing there early and start playing Senior football at the age of lets say 16/17 (5th/6th form)  come out better off compared to playing college football right through to the end of 7th form... I have said it before The earlier a player gets out of college football into senior football the better...
Theres no reason you cant play both if your dedicated and want to take your football "seriously"
 
 School morning/ Club afternoon..
 
I agree with you about Charlie Howe.. Great guy and good coach
 
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Petone seem to be doing very well at bringing youngesters through at the momement. I dont recallr any of the current  under 20's in the 1st team that have wasted their youth playing for school on a Saturday.

A dog with a bone :)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I don't believe that its a waste playing school football. The opportunites offered are much greater. Playing club football on a Sat instead of school might make you good at the time but where do you go from there?

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
Petone seem to be doing very well at bringing youngesters through at the momement. I dont recallr any of the current  under 20's in the 1st team that have wasted their youth playing for school on a Saturday.


^^ how can you call it wasting your youth?????
You play football because you love it...normally, if your mates are in the same team as you at school, and it's a decent team, why would you go and play club only? By all means train with a club team to get better, but humans are social creatures. Normally we struggle by ourselves, hence there being leaders, followers and the rest.

Some argue that your youth is the most important time in your life, it shapes who you are, your decisions and judgment, sure hanging around with an older crowd can be beneficial for football, but social, I think you'd struggle to be honest
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hey there SJAY, ill be honest with you mate in terms of social good times i reckon it is much better sociall level then school football. for one being with the older crowd even say people who are 20-25 is massive and you can get up to more antics and experience more things, on top of that you are playing at a higher level which will obviously develop your game quicker than wasting away at college playing newlands and onslow for example.
i know i was one of those that left my college in my 5th and 7th form years to play for a club and in 6th form it was because we were playing federation reserve which wasnt a bad standard
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

SJay makes a valid point.

There are a FEW players for whom playing at a club could lead to bigger and better things but for the rest it's about playing with your mates and enjoying it.
 
Aekara you are one of those 20-25 year olds and I'm not sure hanging out with you would be good for the kids!

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You guys are really missing the point. I'm not saying if you are in the 5th form you should only be playing in your senior mens teams, far from it. You have played club football since you started and if you hadnt noticed club junior football can be played till you are 17. Why not stick with the friends you have come through the grades with and carry on with them till 17th grade and into senior football rather than ditch your club that has invested in you for years just to play  3 years for some school you are only at for a short period of time.

A dog with a bone :)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Not true nightz.
 
Which of the Wellington-based clubs offer any top level youth football past 13 or 14?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
You guys are really missing the point. I'm not saying if you are in the 5th form you should only be playing in your senior mens teams, far from it. You have played club football since you started and if you hadnt noticed club junior football can be played till you are 17. Why not stick with the friends you have come through the grades with and carry on with them till 17th grade and into senior football rather than ditch your club that has invested in you for years just to play  3 years for some school you are only at for a short period of time.
 
invested in junior football??? are you serious, clubs don't invest in junior football - you pay your subs usually around 100 buks and the club invests 50 bucks in balls back at you and the rest of the money goes into capital football registrations and paying for 1st team players.
 
and you can hardly say coaches get payed.... most of which are like smithy who probably dosn't do it for money because the money you get from it dosen't add up to alot more than you would get if you flipped some burgers at ronald mcdonalds house.
 
in saying that most coaches/managers are loyal parents - hardly investment.
bobboltontawa22008-06-17 09:39:44
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
You guys are really missing the point. I'm not saying if you are in the 5th form you should only be playing in your senior mens teams, far from it. You have played club football since you started and if you hadnt noticed club junior football can be played till you are 17. Why not stick with the friends you have come through the grades with and carry on with them till 17th grade and into senior football rather than ditch your club that has invested in you for years just to play  3 years for some school you are only at for a short period of time.
 
invested in junior football??? are you serious, clubs don't invest in junior football - you pay your subs usually around 100 buks and the club invests 50 bucks in balls back at you and the rest of the money goes into capital football registrations and paying for 1st team players.
 
and you can hardly say coaches get payed.... most of which are like smithy who probably dosn't do it for money because the money you get from it dosen't add up to alot more than you would get if you flipped some burgers at ronald mcdonalds house.
 
in saying that most coaches/managers are loyal parents - hardly investment.
 
I guessed you belonged to a crap club. Thats not the case with my own son.

A dog with a bone :)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Not true nightz.
 
Which of the Wellington-based clubs offer any top level youth football past 13 or 14?
 
With both Capital Football and Colleges running games on the same day you are just watering down the competition. If you want to know what clubs are doing check out the JPL leagues or the under 19's later in the season. I know plently of kids that would prefer to stay with their clubs but the schools force them to play for them.

A dog with a bone :)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
nightz wrote:
You guys are really missing the point. I'm not saying if you are in the 5th form you should only be playing in your senior mens teams, far from it. You have played club football since you started and if you hadnt noticed club junior football can be played till you are 17. Why not stick with the friends you have come through the grades with and carry on with them till 17th grade and into senior football rather than ditch your club that has invested in you for years just to play  3 years for some school you are only at for a short period of time.
 
invested in junior football??? are you serious, clubs don't invest in junior football - you pay your subs usually around 100 buks and the club invests 50 bucks in balls back at you and the rest of the money goes into capital football registrations and paying for 1st team players.
 
and you can hardly say coaches get payed.... most of which are like smithy who probably dosn't do it for money because the money you get from it dosen't add up to alot more than you would get if you flipped some burgers at ronald mcdonalds house.
 
in saying that most coaches/managers are loyal parents - hardly investment.
 
I guessed you belonged to a crap club. Thats not the case with my own son.
 
i guess you were coach
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Not true nightz.
 
Which of the Wellington-based clubs offer any top level youth football past 13 or 14?
 
With both Capital Football and Colleges running games on the same day you are just watering down the competition. If you want to know what clubs are doing check out the JPL leagues or the under 19's later in the season. I know plently of kids that would prefer to stay with their clubs but the schools force them to play for them.
 
under 19's later in the season?? what are you on about all these players come out of college, i know tawa last year there were two players from club (who wern't at college anymore) and 14 from the college team.
If you had the choice to play JPL or college soccer anyone would choose college soccer -
the only real debate is what do you prefer college soccer or senior soccer - JPL in 16/17th grade is light years behind college league.
bobboltontawa22008-06-17 14:09:06
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
and you can hardly say coaches get payed.... most of which are like smithy who probably dosn't do it for money because the money you get from it dosen't add up to alot more than you would get if you flipped some burgers at ronald mcdonalds house.
 
 
All you'll find at Ronald mcDonald House is sick children... No Burgers.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A-Team wrote:
 
and you can hardly say coaches get payed.... most of which are like smithy who probably dosn't do it for money because the money you get from it dosen't add up to alot more than you would get if you flipped some burgers at ronald mcdonalds house.
 
 
All you'll find at Ronald mcDonald House is sick children... No Burgers.
settle down all we know is ronald mcdonald makes hamburgers mate.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[QUOTE=bobboltontawa2
 
i guess you were coach
[/QUOTE]
 
No, he's been lucky enough to have been coached by way better than me.

A dog with a bone :)

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Not true nightz.
 
Which of the Wellington-based clubs offer any top level youth football past 13 or 14?
 
With both Capital Football and Colleges running games on the same day you are just watering down the competition. If you want to know what clubs are doing check out the JPL leagues or the under 19's later in the season. I know plently of kids that would prefer to stay with their clubs but the schools force them to play for them.
 
Under 19s provides you with absolutely no guide at all.
 
Karori for example aren't in the main U19 draw, but have a strong youth setup and a big club.
 
Olympic will have a very strong Under 19 team but have a small club and very few youth teams.
 
Neither provide competitive football past age 14.
 
If you live in Wellington you have no option but to play schools football.  It's not a multiple choice question until you are in your final years at school and maybe have a choice between club reserve team and 1st XI.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
With both Capital Football and Colleges running games on the same day you are just watering down the competition.
 
If you follow the thread back you'll find me saying exactly the same thing.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A-Team wrote:
 
and you can hardly say coaches get payed.... most of which are like smithy who probably dosn't do it for money because the money you get from it dosen't add up to alot more than you would get if you flipped some burgers at ronald mcdonalds house (correct correction: ronald mcdonald's house).
 
 
All you'll find at Ronald mcDonald House is sick children... No Burgers.
settle down all we know is ronald mcdonald makes hamburgers mate.
 
Oh the power of a possessive apostrophe...
Smithy2008-06-17 15:49:25

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
McDonad ?  What is McDonad ?
 
who knows what started as a serious thread with a bit of humor has been twisted into mocking sick kids.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
McDonad ?  What is McDonad ?
 
Thank you typo police.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
McDonad ?  What is McDonad ?
 
who knows what started as a serious thread with a bit of humor has been twisted into mocking sick kids.
 
That's not fair bbt2.  You're not sick.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Hard News wrote:
McDonad ?  What is McDonad ?
 
who knows what started as a serious thread with a bit of humor has been twisted into mocking sick kids.
 
That's not fair bbt2.  You're not sick.
 
no. no i am not.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think this has gotten WAY off topic. Sure Club football is good for development, but what's playing the sport you love if you're not having fun???? I know I play for fun, success comes as part of that, as does being in a good team. But overall I play because I love football. School football IS the only football offered from about 14-17/18. I played JPL in my 3rd form but then resorted to school because the level of football was higher, my friends were playing for school and it was more convenient too.
Fair point about club developing you more, but I think in terms of resources invested in you, schools actually do more. More games, traditionals, national tournament, playing against representative sides, training with the Phoenix, getting an education at the same time. School football is the basis from which players develop and break into club level. Simple as that...or maybe not so
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Your exactly right Si. Maybe it can't be said of all colleges around but definately at Coll we are getting some of the best coaching available. With good coaching comes good play and from that more opportunities arise. Playing senior club football from an early age can make you good but in the end noone is going to see you playing for Olympic Reserves.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

This argument can go round in circles, but to me there are 3 ingedients to becoming a good footballer.  The first is talent although I've heard coaches say they can teach everything except speed and desire. The second is quality coaching. Clubs don't have a monoploy on this and sometimes the better coaches can be found at the schools, especially if they are running a development program or academy. The third is good quality regular competition and this is the one aspect I think lacking for schoolboys in Wellington. There is just not the depth available to ensure regular competition and this where the argument to play senior football has some validity. In Auckland the situation is different with virtually all schoolboys playing in the saturday school comp which I believe is much stronger.  You need the stronger competition to continue learning and knock the bad habits out of your game and you are quite right SJ, there is no point if you are not enjoying it.  I think if you are serious though there will come a time when you know that you are not being challenged any more playing in the schoolboy grades or are not learning anything and then it is time to step into senior football.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
toehacker wrote:

This argument can go round in circles, but to me there are 3 ingedients to becoming a good footballer.  The first is talent although I've heard coaches say they can teach everything except speed and desire. The second is quality coaching. Clubs don't have a monoploy on this and sometimes the better coaches can be found at the schools, especially if they are running a development program or academy. The third is good quality regular competition and this is the one aspect I think lacking for schoolboys in Wellington. There is just not the depth available to ensure regular competition and this where the argument to play senior football has some validity. In Auckland the situation is different with virtually all schoolboys playing in the saturday school comp which I believe is much stronger.  You need the stronger competition to continue learning and knock the bad habits out of your game and you are quite right SJ, there is no point if you are not enjoying it.  I think if you are serious though there will come a time when you know that you are not being challenged any more playing in the schoolboy grades or are not learning anything and then it is time to step into senior football.


Interesting you say this, in the past two days, I've had a coach and a motivational speaker tell me that speed can be taught, maybe just different opinions. Desire sure, that has to come from within someone.
Coaches, I can only speak for me and Fomble at Wellington College why wouldn't we play school , with Charlie Howe coaching 1sts, Guy Smith coaching the academy, and the old war horse Ross Durant coaching 2nds. For me there is a lot of knowledge between the three of them and a lot that can be learned. 
Sure Auckland is much stronger, look how many people live there! The top 6 of Premier Youth at the moment is quite strong, although there have been some push over games. But overall the competition is very strong compared to previously. Possibly mixing the top school teams into the mens league might benifit both sides. Better football, social side of it and development for the players. IF the whole team is strong enough then why not? Wellington College would be able to do this for atleast this and the next two years. I'm not sure after that though. Could be an option?
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SJay wrote:
toehacker wrote:

This argument can go round in circles, but to me there are 3 ingedients to becoming a good footballer.  The first is talent although I've heard coaches say they can teach everything except speed and desire. The second is quality coaching. Clubs don't have a monoploy on this and sometimes the better coaches can be found at the schools, especially if they are running a development program or academy. The third is good quality regular competition and this is the one aspect I think lacking for schoolboys in Wellington. There is just not the depth available to ensure regular competition and this where the argument to play senior football has some validity. In Auckland the situation is different with virtually all schoolboys playing in the saturday school comp which I believe is much stronger.  You need the stronger competition to continue learning and knock the bad habits out of your game and you are quite right SJ, there is no point if you are not enjoying it.  I think if you are serious though there will come a time when you know that you are not being challenged any more playing in the schoolboy grades or are not learning anything and then it is time to step into senior football.


Interesting you say this, in the past two days, I've had a coach and a motivational speaker tell me that speed can be taught, maybe just different opinions. Desire sure, that has to come from within someone.
Coaches, I can only speak for me and Fomble at Wellington College why wouldn't we play school , with Charlie Howe coaching 1sts, Guy Smith coaching the academy, and the old war horse Ross Durant coaching 2nds. For me there is a lot of knowledge between the three of them and a lot that can be learned. 
Sure Auckland is much stronger, look how many people live there! The top 6 of Premier Youth at the moment is quite strong, although there have been some push over games. But overall the competition is very strong compared to previously. Possibly mixing the top school teams into the mens league might benifit both sides. Better football, social side of it and development for the players. IF the whole team is strong enough then why not? Wellington College would be able to do this for atleast this and the next two years. I'm not sure after that though. Could be an option?
 
how can you miss jaques v? sure nobody may like the guy but hes a quality school boys coach, he gets every inch of tetostrone out of a young lads body - personally i think ross durant and jaques v combo would be probably the  best 2 college coaches around. You dont just pick up a UEFA coaching badge at the old capital football coaching clinics. rosco works with what jaques v lacks and thats he interacts with the boys - jaques v knows his football all be it his obsession with 3-5-2
bobboltontawa22008-06-18 08:17:24
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well you can't deny Charlie Howe is quality. Both guys are great coaches but with different styles. Charlie knows football too, I suppose he has more recent results to his credentials. On the note of 3-5-2, Charlie likes it a bit too. Seems to be WC's favoured formation.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SJay wrote:
Well you can't deny Charlie Howe is quality. Both guys are great coaches but with different styles. Charlie knows football too, I suppose he has more recent results to his credentials. On the note of 3-5-2, Charlie likes it a bit too. Seems to be WC's favoured formation.
 
charlie howe isn't a proven college coach yet, coaching kids with energy to senior football is a totally different thing.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

not proven? Hilton Petone Div 2 in his first school coaching with no team training or anything. Sure it is different but if he brings in the level of organisation and commitment that he implements with senior football then it speaks for itself. Beating Stream 3-1 and Town 5-0 on consecutive days, is that not results?

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SJay wrote:

not proven? Hilton Petone Div 2 in his first school coaching with no team training or anything. Sure it is different but if he brings in the level of organisation and commitment that he implements with senior football then it speaks for itself. Beating Stream 3-1 and Town 5-0 on consecutive days, is that not results?

 
we all know hilton petone div 2 or 1 isn't really a tournament... you won 2 games on penaltys!!!
sure silverstream and town good results .. failure to mention loss to hibs , scrapping past onslow and paraparaumu. top 4 at nationals and ill rate him as a college coach, dosn't have to be this year im willing to sit on the fence on this one, dissapointing not to see jv involved in some way with the college though.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
toehacker wrote:

This argument can go round in circles, but to me there are 3 ingedients to becoming a good footballer.  The first is talent although I've heard coaches say they can teach everything except speed and desire. The second is quality coaching. Clubs don't have a monoploy on this and sometimes the better coaches can be found at the schools, especially if they are running a development program or academy. The third is good quality regular competition and this is the one aspect I think lacking for schoolboys in Wellington. There is just not the depth available to ensure regular competition and this where the argument to play senior football has some validity. In Auckland the situation is different with virtually all schoolboys playing in the saturday school comp which I believe is much stronger.  You need the stronger competition to continue learning and knock the bad habits out of your game and you are quite right SJ, there is no point if you are not enjoying it.  I think if you are serious though there will come a time when you know that you are not being challenged any more playing in the schoolboy grades or are not learning anything and then it is time to step into senior football.

 
I'm going to quote toehacker who is 100% correct and then end this shenanigans.
 
Toehacker has the answer. 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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