The Norman Conquests - Paying Players
Normo's coming home
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The Norman Conquests - Paying Players
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[Special local edition of the Norman Conquests - paying players, the very few rights and many wrongs]
The silly season has begun, cheque books are being waved and frantic club chairmen are desperately seeking new blood in the hunt for glory, or to avoid relegation.
Am I a month late? Hardly, the pre-season horse trading that has characterised recent iterations of the Central League and Capital Premier League has begun again in earnest. But with the financial viability of the NZFC again in question, and considering the parlous state of many grounds around Wellington it is time to question seriously the necessity of paying players at club level and ask how it serves club members and football as a whole.
As incorporated societies clubs do not have to file financial statements (although some do) and as such it is difficult to guage the exact nature of the various amounts on offer at different clubs. But all of us who've played football in Wellington are used to a familiar scenario; an unusual face turns up in an unusual place for pre-season training fuelling speculation that inducements have been offered. We all know players who�ve boasted about some wedge in the back pocket, or served on committees where the matter has been discussed. The fact is, the majority of clubs in Wellington pay players to play football, in grades as low as Capital 1. The sums are generally small, and often in the form of win bonuses. But, at times the financial rewards are substantial, they are getting larger and across all clubs across a season a significant amount of money is lost to the game every year. How are amateur players in amateur leagues, funded substantially by charitable gaming trusts expecting, and receiving, payment for turning up on a Tuesday and a Thursday and playing on a Saturday?
I should at this point declare my own interest, I have been paid for two seasons in Capital Premier. This is not a boast, those who have seen me play will know that I have nothing to boast about, but a prime example of how poorly judged the allocation of funding can be. Each week we won it cost the club more than $600, more than $6000 for the season. Not a huge amount, but meanwhile our second team played in a mismatched kit, our training ground was ramshackle and when it rained we didn�t train. I enjoyed receiving the brown paper envelope with two twenties, which was often spent over the bar at Karori Park. But I found it odd then, and I feel much more strongly now observing the game from afar, it is a waste of money.
Let�s get this straight. Bringing in good players in an attempt to increase standards or to coach is a Good Thing. What I object to is the routine and unnecessary payment of average players at amateur level to do no more than turn up to training and play on a Saturday.
Recently, a well known Wellington player missed half a season because no-one would meet his five figure price tag for Central League football. Clubs in Capital Premier have offered substantial four figure sums for players to transfer. By all accounts the Northern League is worse � anecdotally many players have skipped the NZFC because they can earn more playing winter football. Rumour has it that an ex-Knights player, not good enough for the NZFC, has demanded a $4000 signing on fee at his winter club this year.
In Wellington, clubs seem to believe that they need to pay players to be taken seriously. Wairarapa United, one of the few clubs who can argue that they have improved the region�s playing stocks with the signing of numerous pacific islanders, have stated their intention to attack the Central League in 2009 with a budget of up to $160,000. Wharfies are pursing players aggressively. Peering through club�s financial statements (which are available at www.societies.govt.nz) some interesting gems appear. In 2006, Naenae spent $45,500 on �coaching� of their approximately $150,000 income (incidentally of which around $100,000 was in charitable grants) and a further $6,807 on international travel when their first team finished 7th in Capital 1. International travel. For Naenae. In Capital 1. Lower Hutt spent over $100,000 on an unsuccessful 2008 Central League campaign including $41,000 on coaching, more than the total spent on the rest of its senior club. Napier�s figure was $83,000. This is not a witch-hunt, I�m merely highlighting some items of interest (which are similar at other clubs), but these are astonishing figures in amateur competitions.
We now have a generation of footballers who expect to be paid for their services, and are willing to tout themselves around the region to get the best deal. But I don�t blame the players. Players are only worth what someone is willing to pay them, if the clubs didn�t create a market then the players themselves would have no bargaining power. Although there is very little competition from outside the region for players, and few if any would leave for footballing reasons alone, a thriving, and frankly absurd, club led demand has developed.
Let�s not forget that the NZFC was introduced because clubs had demonstrated that the win-at-any-cost mentality pursued to seek promotion to the old National League was unsustainable. Clubs have shown in the past that given a sniff of success they will abandon organic growth and look for a quick, and often disastrous, fix. In recent years both Gisborne City and Richmond City have spent big money attracting out of town players in the Central and Mainland Leagues respectively, and then had that funding conspicuously withdrawn, leaving them back where they started.
Gisborne were bankrolled by Auckland based businessmen, employing Kevin Fallon and a host of Auckland based players and ferrying them round on a private jet. Those days ended when an invitation into the NZFC was not forthcoming. Richmond brought Alick Maemae, Nelson Salae, Jeremy Brockie and Benjamin Totori to Nelson in 2007 before a fraud investigation by the Securities Commission led to the mid-season withdrawal of the backer. The club was barely able to raise the funds necessary to complete the season. The players involved never played for the club again and neither Richmond nor Gisborne play in either of those leagues in 2009, life is back to where it always was. Although the money was provided by external sources, the substantial financial investment had very little benefit to either club or to football in general.
And all of this when our flagship semi-professional competition that is on its knees through lack of funding and more and more of the best young players overseas at college in the states. Players are being paid more as the standard has diminished. Where once players with experience in professional environments were brought from overseas, guys like Tim Butterfield, Graham Little and Spud Murphy, increasing the quality of play we now have a finite pool of players moving between neighbouring clubs for ever - increasing amounts (witness the recent exchanges between Stop Out and Lower Hutt and the pursuit of New Zealand under 20 players temporarily in Wellington prior to the Olympics last season).
How has the situation been allowed to develop?
[part 2 will continue tomorrow - what is the way forward?]
james dean2009-02-18 22:17:04Normo's coming home
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Some people are going to be grumpy.
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I am very interested to hear all views on the matter, instead of discussing how much people are being paid let's discuss why they are being paid.
Normo's coming home
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Good article, JD. As a Coach at a Northern League Club who DON'T pay players in any shape or form and who are suffering in terms of player recruitment as a result, I'd be interested to hear people's views on this.
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Good article, JD. As a Coach at a Northern League Club who DON'T pay players in any shape or form and who are suffering in terms of player recruitment as a result, I'd be interested to hear people's views on this.
Maroon and white may be the first problem. Bledisloe park second. Location of Pukekohe third 
Its no longer a problem.
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As someone whos played National League, Central League and Capital Prem I always saw getting a bit of cash at the end of the season as a bonus. I've never played for money in NZ, its not worth it.
In the UK I was at a semi pro club and did receive a decent bit of coin from it. However, I worked in the bar that the club owned for 20hrs a week and they paid me for 40. That is pretty standard practise in the lower leagues (Northern Premier) in England.
I agree with JD that the stupid money that is being thrown around should be filtered towards facilities. Unfortunatley most of the money players get is diverted around clubs by private individuals who see football as a hobby and want to see thier club win. A few clubs use employment as an incentive which I see as a good thing. At least they individuals involved have to do some worlk to earn the money.
Playing football in NZ is for enjoyment, not money (unless you at the Nix of course). No one in Central League, Cap Prem or especially Cap 1 is good enough to be paid the coin that is on offer.
End of rant.
Its no longer a problem.
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Maroon and white may be the first problem. Bledisloe park second. Location of Pukekohe third
1. I agree. I'd much prefer red and yellow hoops! (although there's talk of us wearing our original colours for the 2010 season, which just happen to be black and yellow shirts!)
2. New, state of the art clubrooms being built, to be finished in time for our 50th anniversary in 2010, and all the pitch layouts will be changing at the same time.
3. Sad but true. In people's heads anyway. People seem to think it's just south of Napier! We recently had a guy who decided to play against the fat blokes in AFF Div 43 than play NRFL with us. Cos the club he went to was nearer. We are only 20 minutes further away.
I think if we started chucking silly money around at players, all those minor problems would be forgotten tho'! Oh well.....
The other side of it is that, from a financial point of view, we're in a far stronger position than a few clubs I could mention.
Jag2009-02-19 09:38:55Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Well written JD. I was paid for the first and only time in my 20 years of senior football (most of it in club's first teams) two seasons ago at Tawa, in a lump sum at the end of the season, based on participation in wins. I gave the money away.
I've always felt like I'd be denying the clubs I was playing (admittedly, rather average-ly) for the opportunity to buy gear for juniors or do other far more valuable stuff if I took money from them. I play because I love it and for the friendships I've gained. Money never even came into it. Hell, I even paid subs last year at BNU, something which has been looked after for me in all of my previous seasons.
We're amateurs. We play for love. Most of us have jobs to put food on the table. But you're right JD, the players aren't to blame - who's going to turn down the brown envelope? It'll only be when every single club decides that they'll spend their greenbacks on other things that things will change.
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....well said, LF1. Sadly, until the 'Yeah, I know our clubrooms are falling down and our 2nd team haven't got kit but we want our 1st team to be XXXXX Champions' attitude goes, things won't change.
Jag2009-02-19 09:44:22
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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JD, very well spoken.
First of all, I think the brown envelope, team-wide win bonuses are the single biggest waste of money in our game. They have nil impact on player recruitment (if you even believe that is a legitimate use of $ in the amateur game), nil impact on performance and, as you say, it all comes at some substantial opportunity cost (whether facilities, gear or anything else worthwhile).
The question whether or not you should tolerate player inducements in order to bring quality players to a club is more difficult. There is obviously an awful lot of very wastefully spent $ on players at the Central and Cap Prem level, and, unfortunately, once one club is prepared to pay it is hard to hold it against others for doing the same. So, the question is whether there are any circumstances, in an amateur league such as these, in which it is reasonable to pay players? I think possibly, when you are bringing a senior player to a club, with family and job commitments that will be compromised, and expecting them to make a major contribution on and off the field, then maybe, if its the difference between keeping them involved in the game, then perhaps it is (the payments to young kids are pretty much impossible to justify). But, then you have opened a door and created a pretty grey area, as far as what is justified and what is not, so, as I said above, very tricky.
On the whole, however, the spending on players is incredibly short-sighted - and if it was tallied up Im sure it could have made a massive difference to the standard of training facilities in Wellington over the years. Having said that, there are always exceptions. For instance, even though the team has been somewhat "artificially' boosted by player inducements, its hard to knock the contribution that Wairarapa has made to lifting the standard and profile of the game over the hill. Could they have done so without player inducements? Maybe, but no easy road. On the other hand, the tugging of players back and forth between clubs in Wellington and the HV does seem rather mindless.
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I play because I love it
So you ARE playing this season! Knew it.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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JD you should email your article to Keith Palmer and Frank van Hattum. Both are interested in what is going on
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I play because I love it
So you ARE playing this season! Knew it.
Sorry Smithy, I should have used past tense....unless someone wants to tempt me with a brown envelope...... 
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on reflection im pretty sure any envelopes i saw were plain, standard white ones. brown is a myth
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Sorry Smithy, I should have used past tense....unless someone wants to tempt me with a brown envelope......
....with some support stockings and a bottle of linament in it?
Jag2009-02-19 09:59:10Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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oh yes, this seems a timely opportunity to ask Feverish if he could, once again, talk me through the $10 "draw bonus" that Wharfies had in place a few years back. Always struck me as a curious incentive that one.
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Sorry Smithy, I should have used past tense....unless someone wants to tempt me with a brown envelope......
With a note saying, play for us or we'll publish these photos ?
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Perfect world � maybe it might be preferable to have no player payments in local football. However, obviously this is unrealistic.
Two part question for you
a) Do you support the concept of team-stacking?
b) Were you managing a team at the end of 2007 that �miraculously� overturned top of table Marist?
I think this demonstrates that despite our fluffy idealist views on these matters, sometimes in reality, the drive to succeed overshadows these ideals (also the fact that you have gratefully accepted payment in the past).
End of the day if some players weren�t being paid - there would be a drop in playing standards as some would literally not bother.
Clubs expect results from their top team, and if you are sensible and spend what you CAN AFFORD in order to raise the bar then all good. I say this as I believe clubs have a duty to foster football at the elite level (�elite� in the relative sense!).
Interesting in the financials how many clubs are running losses and depleting reserves..
I also suggest that those who adopt the same view as you, or indeed strong views on any club football topic, go and join your club committee and actively contribute, instead of barking from the sidelines.
Ps -�Wharfies are pursing players aggressively� � aye? so we are not allowed to try and attract new players now? yes I did tempt Buckle back to the club over a curry at lunch.
Pps � �our second team played in a mismatched kit� � about 85% of our 20 teams will have kit under a year old.
Ppps - My fines exceed my win bonuses anyway..
Pppps � Can you please repay any win bonuses we have given you so you can sit on this moral high-ground!
Ppppps -Who uses brown envelopes?!
Feverish2009-02-19 10:14:13Founder
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Brown envelopes, is that how its's done? Thanks for the guidance, I'm off to see if there are any in the work stationary cupboard.
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Greenie makes a valid, or certainly arguable, point about using small amounts of money to raise the standard at the top level.
Also, if the money being spent by some of the quoted clubs is genuinely being spent on coaching then, at least arguably, that's a good thing?
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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Feverish - still waiting for your comment re the "draw bonus"
And for the record, I paid for my own curry.
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Feverish - still waiting for your comment re the "draw bonus"
And for the record, I paid for my own curry.
yes it was strange. No longer exists. It's now $5 for <3 goal differential
Founder
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End of the day if some players weren�t being paid - there would be a drop in playing standards as some would literally not bother.
I really hope this isn't true.
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Brown envelopes, is that how its's done? Thanks for the guidance, I'm off to see if there are any in the work stationary cupboard.
you might have to double bag..
Founder
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Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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End of the day if some players weren�t being paid - there would be a drop in playing standards as some would literally not bother.
I really hope this isn't true.
Don't believe it for a minute.
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I think this demonstrates that despite our fluffy idealist views on these matters, sometimes in reality, the drive to succeed overshadows these ideals (also the fact that you have gratefully accepted payment in the past).
End of the day if some players weren�t being paid - there would be a drop in playing standards as some would literally not bother.
Clubs expect results from their top team, and if you are sensible and spend what you CAN AFFORD in order to raise the bar then all good. I say this as I believe clubs have a duty to foster football at the elite level (�elite� in the relative sense!).
Interesting in the financials how many clubs are running losses and depleting reserves..
I also suggest that those who adopt the same view as you, or indeed strong views on any club football topic, go and join your club committee and actively contribute, instead of barking from the sidelines.
OK then, as someone who spent many years on the committee of BNU I'll have to disagree with you anyway.
BNU has always refused to pay players for exactly the reasons pointed out in James Dean's article. And we always knew what the consequences of that would be and that the club would always be perceived from the outside as being "second tier".
It all depends how you define success. For BNU even getting into Capital Premier and then staying there for 5 or so years was a big deal and everyone who was involved in that took tremendous pride from that. We also took pride from the fact that we weren't screwing the community trusts, that we had no debts, that we weren't ripping off our social members and/or juniors and that we didn't need a "sugar daddy" to artificially prop the club up. The only thing we ever did was not ask the first team for subs and even that got stopped in the end!
No doubt you will argue that BNU has not done anything to foster football at the "elite" level but what does that actually mean? We're talking about local leagues in Wellington, New Zealand - the very arsehole of world football. Where's the pay-off, the benefit from spending money on players?
Sure, some "elite" players may give up if there was no money in it but that would be a very short-term impact, if any. As LF1 points out most players just want to play. As soon as you had a younger generation coming through with no expectations of being paid you would have exactly the same standard as you would have had anyway. In fact, if you took the money currently being paid to players and put it into coaching, facilities etc the standard might even be higher in the long-term.
Anyway, I'm not pretending anything will change but I do take issue with your implication that poor old club committees have no choice except to pay players. It just isn't true and is more to do with what kind of club you want and how you define success.
Good debate anyway.
Cheers,
Regan.
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Good to hear your views Regan, as I see you havent posted that often. I hear what you are saying - keep up the good work at BNU.
However, I think how BNU is regarded in local football circles kind of puts massive dent in your logic.
Counter-argument too, is the guy who wanted to bring his whole team over from BNU to Karori last year - I wouldn't define that as you being successful in fostering growth at a social level.
And on the 'giving up the game' thing I mentioned. I am sure there are a decent number of guys playing Central League now that would disappear toorrow if they did not receive their brown paper bags every week. Most of them are the mercenaries who have had more clubs than a Canadian seal pup.
Founder
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And on the 'giving up the game' thing I mentioned. I am sure there are a decent number of guys playing Central League now that would disappear toorrow if they did not receive their brown paper bags every week. Most of them are the mercenaries who have had more clubs than a Canadian seal pup.
In that case, we'd be better off without them.
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Isn't one of your Naenae alumni actively touting on this forum for another club News? Anyone who can get him work and pay for his flights?
...
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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Only work... and he was looking for a job to allow him to come to Naenae (only dirty money Feverish tried to ambush him) - everyone needs a job, particularly if the club aren't paying them.
He's not looking for a hand out to play, just a job to help him survive while he plays.
Hard News2009-02-19 14:45:00
He's not looking for a hand out to play, just a job to help him survive while he plays.
Hard News2009-02-19 14:45:00
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Good to hear your views Regan, as I see you havent posted that often. I hear what you are saying - keep up the good work at BNU.
However, I think how BNU is regarded in local football circles kind of puts massive dent in your logic.
Counter-argument too, is the guy who wanted to bring his whole team over from BNU to Karori last year - I wouldn't define that as you being successful in fostering growth at a social level.
And on the 'giving up the game' thing I mentioned. I am sure there are a decent number of guys playing Central League now that would disappear toorrow if they did not receive their brown paper bags every week. Most of them are the mercenaries who have had more clubs than a Canadian seal pup.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to put BNU on a pedestal. The club is what it is, and definitely isn't perfect or to everybody's taste.
Teams will come and go but for the past 6 or 7 years we've always entered 13 or 14 senior teams across the grades, which is right up there and something that I would still define as being successful (although not quite on the scale of Wharfies!). BNU isn't knocking around in Capital 1 because nobody's got the brains to work out how to pay players, it's always been a very deliberate choice not to go down that path, for better or for worse. Does that demonstrate a lack of ambition? Not really, in fact maybe it's more ambitious. It certainly means that any success the club has feels like it's really been earned. Just ask anyone who was around the club the year we got promoted to Capital Premier, you would have thought we had won the FA Cup!
Anyway, this isn't really about BNU. I just wanted to make the point that clubs definitely do have choices about how they spend their money, it's all about perspective.
By the way, I'm also not currently involved with the committee (2 kids under the age of 3 put paid to that, at least for while) so my views are really my own. Future BNU committee members may feel differently which would be entirely their perogative if they are the ones putting in the time.
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[This is part 2 - part 1 is at the beginning of the thread. I'll let the debate play out a bit and then get back with my 2 cents. I think it is definitely an issue that is worth discussing]
There are two main sources of income for football clubs, subscriptions and charitable grants � very little money is made from club bars, fundraising and sponsorship. Typically, a club will fund 30 - 50% (although sometimes as much as 70%) of it�s operations through community trusts. Football is funded by pokies at every level, including the NZFC, and the shortfall is made up by those who pay subscriptions, typically those �social� players who actually pay subs below second team level. Do any of them particularly care who is turning out for the first team? They should, they�re paying part of the wages. I would like to hear a club chairman justify the outlay on first teams. And if gaming money is to be spent on semi-professional football, shouldn�t it go towards the NZFC, which requires substantial commitment of the players, at least draws some crowds and has produced All Whites and professional players for the A-League?
One of the key themes in Capital Football�s strategic plan is a recognition of the aspirational nature of elite performance is a key driver of mass participation. More simply, the desire to achieve at the highest level in turn leads to more people playing the game.
But, this is balanced by a recognition that the distribution of resources between mass participation and elite performance needs to be balanced � as it states �one cannot be achieved without the other and under-investing in either is likely to lead to poor results for both�. Rightly, the first team is the focus at most clubs. But the balance has become completely skewed towards the elite (and that phrase hardly applies to Capital Premier and the Central League), rather than a balanced approach to raising standards across the board. At most clubs the return for your subs is a used kit, a match ball and some muddy playing fields. No coaching, no training and very little opportunity to improve or even learn something about the game.
Club members at every level can have legitimate questions as to what this football arms race has achieved. Training conditions are still mediocre, very few clubs have access to indoor facilities. Increased professionalism? A visit to Kitty�s and Electric Avenue on a Thursday will quickly disavow you of that notion. Individual clubs have their day in the sun while they splash the cash and attract players, but other than Western Suburbs and Lower Hutt who lead the way in training facilities very little has changed since the mid � nineties, other than the standard, which has gone backwards. No club has said no, we�re not going down this route and recognised that short-term financial largess serves no-one�s interests. Strategically, what are board members hoping to achieve? And what is the succession plan for when the money runs out, or someone gets a better offer from across town?
I recently spoke to a senior administrator in Wellington sport about the future of the Phoenix, the NZFC and the recent failure of the netball team the Wellington Pulse. His view? That there are too many professional or semi � professional sports leagues in New Zealand and that the current situation is unsustainable. Economic reality deigns that corporate sponsorship dollars will fall further. Gaming income has been falling due to a combination of the smoking ban and recent government legislation. Amateur sport needs to remain just that, amateur.
I have heard it argued that players at higher levels deserve payment because of the increased commitment involved with playing in a league. Yet predominantly the money is only secondary � footballers play because they love playing the game and play for that reason. It merely serves as an inducement to change clubs, players just want to play football and if they can get some money while doing it then that�s a bonus. It�s a fallacy that money is needed to induce top players to play football, a fallacy that clubs have bought into. As an example, the first team at my club in London includes 10 players with NZFC, Northern Premier League or Central League experience, and even one who was a full time professional for two years in the old NSL. There are no benefits to being in the first team other than a newer strip. They pay subs like everyone else, pay for their own tracksuits and boots and their own travel, usually on public transport, halfway around and across London every Saturday in a long season. Why? Because they love the game, they realise that they are amateur players in an amateur league and that is the way things are.
Another valid comparison is club rugby. The demands on club rugby players are arguably greater than those in football, many clubs proscribe off season weights programmes and even dietary plans. Some clubs have dry seasons. And yet, and yet, payment in senior club rugby is unheard of.
But if clubs are going to hire players then they need to be seen as an asset � merely turning up on a Saturday should not be enough. Cricket has long had the tradition of the �club pro� who plays for the first team while being responsible for much of the coaching at the club and in the region. Any team in a club should be able to call up and ask for a training session or advice.
To some people this entire article be considered an overreaction, why rock the boat? But we are a game with limited financial constraints and to see money flowing out, money that is desperately needed elsewhere, seems shockingly counterproductive.
Ultimately, leadership and change has to come from our administration. NZF, and locally Capital Football, must decide if this is the future of the sport in this country. Already there is talk of the NZFC being suspended next year while yet another review is commissioned. Club based national competitions have been tried and failed for many of the reasons set out here. If we truly are going to grow the game from the grassroots up, spending money where it is needed seems a great place to start.
james dean2009-02-20 05:53:40Normo's coming home
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This forum rules state we are all intitled to have a say and JD you have had plentyto say and to be honest i am trying to work out whats your agenda. And i do agree whit one of your comments
"To some people this entire article be considered an overreaction"
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Why does there have to be an agenda? And if there is one, perhaps it is to direct money to improving facilities or provide coaching for juniors. 2ndBest2009-02-20 08:25:13
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2ndbest Thanks for helping me out with what the agenda was. at least we agree that thier was a agenda.
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we weren't screwing the community trusts, that we had no debts, that we weren't ripping off our social members and/or juniors and that we didn't need a "sugar daddy" to artificially prop the club up.
F A Cup your highlighted comments interest me. If you believe these things are happening out there in the football community you should do something about it. There is a massive misallocation of scarce resource going on I agree but the clubs who do it are never going to change their ways unless forced to by administrators higher up the chain. I suggest you start by writing to the board of Capital Football, maybe even requesting that you can attend a board meeting, and raise these issues with them. That's one way you can actively help fix this big problem.
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