A-league Expansion - Derbies

I know this area well. My mama lives 5 minutes from the Kawana stadium. Sunshine Coast would have to be the whitest large metro area in Aussie (not having been to the Central Coast). Still does have a large 'to and from' popn so that should provide a start up fan base. 

Stadium is already a nightmare for traffic with no public transport at all. A massive new hospital being built nearby with 5,000 employees is only adding to the car squeeze

Another area of Aussie with no National comp team to currently support. Though that changes next year when a netball team starts up there as part of new expanded Oz national nettie league.

There's an article on stuff about it. Not going to happen at all because ACFC aren't 100% on it themselves. They are reluctant to give up all the good stuff that comes with being the biggest fish in the confederation and would only consider joining the A-League if the FFA asked them and simultaneously some benefactor came along with deep pockets and bankrolled it.

Article is by Michael Cockerill a quality football journo/TV pundit here in Australyia and strong backer of A League having a NZ presence. As evidenced from article he has a good knowledge of NZ football.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/876...

Be interesting to see what happened if ACFC failed to somehow qualify for the CWC say for 2 years in a row (not just a one year hiatus)

You are forgetting that the Kingz and the Knights were the first forays into a pro team and both handled very poorly on a number of levels. Switiching grounds, naming the teams with names that the non football public couldnt relate to etc. When the Kingz were on a decent winning streak for  a dozen games in the 2nd season the crowds kept climbing and then Sky TV in all their wisdom dumped the Rufers for an Aussie coach who bailed after 4 or so games if that. From the day the Rufers were dumped the whole thing started to unravel, thats 15 years ago now.

The A League is a more established name among the general sporting public now and Auckland has added another 300,000 people since the Kings started up.

An Auckland football public would get in behind an Auckland City side more than they do a Phoenix side  popping in a couple of times a season.

With respect to a fickle Auckland crowds the reality is that Wellington looks just as fickle in terms of crowds over the last few seasons.

Again, using the example of The Kingz and The Knights as proof Auckland couldnt support an A League franchise is eihter trolling or daft because there has been so much learned and there were so many awful mistakes made back then. A massive amount of water has gone under the bridge.

Yeh, but sadly, there is no evidence at all that the Auckland public would get behind them. I used to travel up from EBOP to support both Kingz and Knights and got very frustrated knowing there were thousands of Auckland footballers who were sitting at home when games were on. They didn't care.
I can't imagine another entity taking the risk.
I hope I'm wrong. It would be very cool to have ACFC or Auckland United in the A League.

I still think Christchurch is a better bet - good sized stadium, Russian multimillionaire, local public who get behind sports teams... But too small for the FFA's criteria sadly

With more thought also think any Christchurch bid does have some merit. A rich Ruskie backer, who loves football and has made ChCh his home. Perfect stadium for the A League and the most parochial sports fans in country.

If I was the Cantabs, I'd try and make it almost a whole South Island team. Take a game to each of Nelson and Queenstown over the summer break.

Another game in Dunedin during student orientation week. With some smart promotions like $5K 'student tuition fee ticket 'under a seat in the student zone at The Zoo or something similar. That should pull the scarfies in for a game.

If make it a 'whole of South Island' team would help boost the popn base metric. I'd also get some Canty football icons involved like Sigmund, Summer etc. A real coup would be Nelsen as a manager/head of football type role - but that is probably fanciful stuff, as he seems well setup in the States.

Would have to have a few locals in the team, for fans to really feel like their team. So finally Clapham would get a gig.

It really is in Auckland's own hands. The locals really need to get in behind a team and show up regardless of the form and the weather. Sure the Nix fans are not perfect but we do have a very hardcore 4,000 that show up to almost every game. Mt Smart is a piss easy stadium to get to by train. Shame there isn't a decent pub across the road but by train it is a dream. Like Eden Park too, easy to get to by bus or train. North harbour is just a shark house.

Whilst the Westfield Mall across the road is interesting, there is nothing else to like about the place. it took me 40 minutes to get from the stadium onto the motorway about half a kilometer away. I mean, they painted the friggen turf green having killed the grass off with an overload of sand. I am not looking forward to the game there in March. 

Due to the shark traffic jams, I am going to have to drive up for it. Yes I know there is a bus from Britomart to the stadiums but there is no way I would get back in time for my bus home unless the game kicked off at 3pm....or even 5 pm might do it.

Big Talk -Big Name - HUGE CLUB

Very interesting vid and print as well ... 

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/football/dandenong-faithful-delivers-blunt-aleague-expansion-message-to-ffa-state-government/news-story/47313f6523ae6848b2fabd8844a01c9d

Type into google... to get behind the paywall.

Dandenong faithful delivers blunt A-League expansion message to FFA, state government

If you leave the first link on long enough the vid will load

Massive new bid in today from southern Sydney..

Red Bull also interested in starting a club

These new teams interested in the A-league will be eying the Nix's position

our new 10 yr deal, 4 yrly probation on conditions set by ffa ,new teams 18/19 season , phoenix gone 19/20...?

Red Bulldogs

Interesting vid on the southern bid..

https://www.periscope.tv/w/1eaJbPlBWPkKX

There are a number of new bids ... many are very very very strong ..

Four stand out as exceptionally strong... Tassie, South Melbourne, Casey / Dandy, Southern bid,

Others of great strength are the Sunshine coast, backed by a billionaire, 

Wollongong backed by the owner of WIN corporation [Australia biggest regional TV broadcaster] and owns 12% of Channel 10.

Brisbane Strikers and Southern Australian bids also very strong.

Geelong also a very strong bid.

Counts vary between 14 & 18 bids..

Craig Foster said it best in the Southern bid when he said we are about to enter the next phase of Footballs development.

Stage one was implementation 

Stage two was stabilisation

Stage three is expansion and growth

We have achieved stages one and two and are developing new structures to start to bring in stage three expansion and growth.

Some time ago maybe three years maybe more some on this site started to discuss metrics ... many did not like the discussions...

After months of negotiations the Nix were set metrics to maintain their license, I have no idea what they are however the Nix's owners said at the time they were achievable.

My reading of the tea leafs is nobody deep down wants any team out as such... however the Nix have a twofold problem first is that the AFC don't want you in and to keep you in FFA has to ask FIFA to over rule the AFC ... has been done and will be done but to assume its both easy and comes without some costs in other ways to FFA is wrong .... 

Second and more importantly, Football folk in Australia want to take Football to number one and to achieve that means teams to achieve certain things... pressure on teams not meeting growth targets will intensify ... the Mariners insurance has been to build a massive Football facility arguably the best in Australia and are now trying to buy their own stadium... all indications with population growth etc is the Mariners are set for growth but still under pressure... You guys face aside from the growth pressure you are keeping out a team that could bring a lot more to the table  .  Massive pressure building and lets hope the good folk of Wellie come to the party.

Not only that, but without stable teams like the nix contributing millions of dollars every year to the FFAs back pocket through their losses would there even be an A-League? Or an FFA as we know it.

The nix were there for the A-League when the A-League needed them, there is something called loyalty.

You are right in one sense FFA can add more teams.

However they are limited in how many teams they can add.

People also want a second division a "b" league as you would be aware of.

However the bids coming in are all aware of what caused past failed attempts and many are government backed.

I like the way Fozzie explained it over three phases... implementation done ... stabilisation achieved of which the Nix were a large part of... Now its growth and expansion wanted ... all teams are expected to contribute to this ...

In essence we have at least 9 exceptionally strong bids. Everyone is under pressure everyone will be expected to contribute ...

Tassie backed by loacl, state and federal government will have a purpose built stadium provided to them as well as facilities and the owners started MV and have mega bucks.

South Melbourne.. already have a stadium, and training facilities and a long history and millions in the bank.. will be a derby match as well.

Casey / Dandy ... backing of local councils who have said they will provide land and build a 10 million dollar training facility has a population of  1.2 million in an area of Melbourne were Football is more popular than AFL. will be a derby match.. backing from 6 major local clubs.

Wollongong... massive history 20 K stadium ready, backing by Bruce Gordon own 12% of channel 10 and owns WIN corporation Australia's biggest regional TV broadcaster.

Southern ... look at the above vid ..will be a derby match

Sunshine Coast ... backed by local council and a guy reported to be worth 3 billion who has a history in Football will build his own stadium. will be a derby match as well

Brisbane Strikers .. have backers and also want to build their our stadium at Perry Park ... will be a derby match as well

South Australia bids... some government backing share a stadium with AU.. lots of history and backing of associations. 

Geelong... will provide a stadium and backing by local and state gov..

I'd personally love to see Tassie, Gong, Geelong, Canberra, etc before more teams in existing catchment areas. I seriously doubt there are thousands and thousands of people in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide who would support an A League side but aren't already connected to one of the existing ones. The obsession with derbies is just cannibalising existing markets and doing nothing to expand interest in the league.

^^^^

Conan, you are being overly defensive, I said no team currently in the league can escape the pressure that is coming...

In Australia there is a huge ground swell to grow and promote the game .... 

There is a new expectation of what senior teams need to bring to Football so it can grow.

Paying bills and being stable were once the main criteria   ...  today add the ability to grow the game via, crowds, memberships, TV ratings and general media exposure...

FFA is in the middle of developing new governance rules, and a new model to run the league... FFA is being pushed and attacked for being too slow in acting... add to this pressure from FIFA as well... FTA TV networks are also demanding certain things of A-League teams...

I am simply pointing out the obvious there is a huge amount of change coming... react and move and be part of the growth and no  complains in fact cheers and pats on the back ... sit back and say well look we pay the bills and are stable without growth will more than likely not met whats coming.

You still have some years left I simply say use them to build growth ... don't rely on we are stable and pay the bills ...

Also accept this is the next stage of the league.... and every team is under pressure ... 

You can't have a b league with promotion and relegation until the current 20 year licenses expire, and by then the clubs will probably control the league and you can guaranty that they won't want their investments devalued by being relegated to a semi pro league.

Australia is simply too big, too competitive, and too sparsely populated to make it work.

I agree P & R is many years away but just on the 20 year license agreements... there is a clause in those contract about if P & R was introduced ..

However P & R is a separate story, what I have been saying is within all the licence agreements all clubs signed off on key metrics to maintain their licenses .. I have no idea what they are in numbers but they are about crowds, TV ratings, memberships and general media coverage... 

I am simply saying the bleeding obvious, with so many strong bids coming in FFA are in a position to enforce license conditions if they so choose.

The mood in Australia is expansion and growth and any team that is seen not to be doing this will come under pressure ...

I can tell you the Mariners are taking this very seriously and use the COE as an insurance and are doing a lot to grow our metrics, essentially as a club and the fans  except we need to lift to ensure we survive ... 

This is a vid on the COE   

I guess I am saying relying on being stable I think is dangerous  

All this talk about a 2nd NZ team and yet we will most likely not have a licence come 2018/19 anyway.

We have a ten year license.

2 years into a 4 year probation licence they may or may not include any extensions.

It's a 10 year license with conditions.

Dome has said we just have to be around the same metrics as CCM and Jets after the first four years.

Oh bullshark. You don't here anything about the Jets or Mariners. The 9 Aussie teams are protected. Only sunshine and rainbows compared to us!

The only Aussie teams being shafted right now are the ones that aren't even IN the A-League. If Southern Sydney get in over Wollongong  or Tassie, watch the amount of supporters they'll get.

LESS than us. But we'll still fold before them.

O FFS grow up ... If any Australian team had your metrics there would be as much pressure... all you have to do is lift your metrics as Ryan said above ... is to Mariner / Jets level and you don't have an issue, BTW the Mariners also have to lift .. 

Just get on with with fixing it ...  the teams you quote are working the backsides off to met targets and create off park Football assets ..

The Mariners have be warned already .. and see the vid about the COE.. and the Coast is set for massive population expansion and we are the only team here and may soon own our stadium.

Newcastle they have often averaged over 10K crowd per season and some years have had over 9 k members and they have massive local media penetration more I think in there area than any other side. They are also in the process of developing a mega size academy .  

MC the other often referred to team have done this...

A 15 million dollar training facility

I think lack of that type of stadium is one of the key reasons why Auckland City hasn't been more aggressive in pursuing an A-League place

I don't know much about Akl City, However if a team from Auckland was to come in, it has a lot more option on stadiums then Wellington has.

Well they have 3 they could use as opposed to Wellington's 1. Mt Smart is probably the best but that is the Warriors home, QBE is difficult too get to and no one went when the Kingz and the Knights played there, and Eden Park is too big and too expensive

I think the FFA and its cheerleaders are massively overstating how far the A League has come. Sure they have a new TV deal and a lot of parties interested in expansion clubs but it's in both the bidders' and FFA's interests to talk up the quality of those bids, and it's one thing to look good on paper and another to actually be a viable club, as GCU taught us. Not that long ago they were running the Jets for a year because they couldn't find an owner, while the Bakrie group wasn't paying its bills in Brisbane. They've poured money into Cahill but City are currently averaging lower crowds than last year. The A League sides in the ACL are getting humiliated. The NPL clubs are bleeding young  players dry to fund their first teams so talented kids are switching codes. The Big Bash has emerged as a serious challenger for the sporting public's attention in the summer months, and has got prime free to air coverage locked in. The standard of refereeing in the league continues to be laughable and, rightly or wrongly, crowd behavior keeps attracting negative headlines.

I think there's still a lot to be said for stability.

Sure I might come across as overly defensive but us Nix supporters have had to put up with a lot of shark from the FFA and Australian media repeating falsehoods about our situation so I just get frustrated when it happens again.

There's been plenty of speculation of a new rectangular stadium by the harbour/water front being built in Auckland. Also there was both a rich Russian and an American wanting to buy Auckland City and try to get them into the A-League, not quite sure at which stage it fell through though. Apparently it could have been the entry fee/application fee was too substantial to invest in. Although the new-owners-ships have apparently sailed. 

I was saying we don't need to worry too much as that's an easy goal, most years we're ahead of a couple of teams, usually CCM. This year we aren't obviously.

Although we should aim to exceed those goals obviously, the pressure isn't as high as I thought it was (with the talk of 10k attendences beforehand) - we do have room to spend a few years building a new team with a new coach rather than having to win the thing next year.

Look at what that 15 million dollar facility and biggest ever investment in a playing squad has gotten city, attendances hovering around 8k and only one point ahead of fifth place. 

In every league there are rich teams and poorer teams, you can't compare us to Melbourne City in terms of buying power (no team can), but you can compare us to the CCM, we have two marquees and invest over the cap wheras CCM invest the minimum. Sure we don't have abandoned hotels and five aside pitches but I fail to see how that helps a football team.

According to google the central coast will have a population growth 80k over the next 20 years, Wellington is projected to have a population growth of up to 160k over the next 30 years. Right now it's estimated that the city is 6,000 houses short of what it needs to house everyone today, and population growth is accelerating.

Mate no is saying stability is no longer important... what they are saying is meeting growth targets is now equally as important..

As for Football's growth being over stated .... if anything under stated... Rugby in Australia is on its knees today... Basketball struggles ... we are about to go to FTA station and have a many bids and many are government backed ... We get lots of media these days most of it positive and the W-League is broadcast on the ABC...Socceroo's arguably the countries biggest sporting brand today ... some say the cricket team... some say the Socceroo's...

But and its the huge BUT ... no one wants you out because you are from NZ .... those that want you out and scream it say you are not contributing to the growth enough... grow your metrics and it all goes away and everything is sunshine lolly pops and sugar coated lemon drops... own the issue FFS ... 

You may have got some more poor calls than others but fix the growth targets and everyone will cheer you.