A-league Expansion - Derbies

I'd say a Logan-Ipswich side in Brisbane before Strikers, if they want a QLD derby. Logan is large urban sprawl not dissimilar to Western Sydney but much smaller. So may succeed with an identified supporter base, who are bored going to their local shopping mall. I think FFA will want to repeat WSW and avoid another GC or Fury

From a geographical perspective that makes sense, I'm familiar with the area. Whats the football support like there though? Isn't it more white-bogan town rather than football mad second and third generation immigrants?

Re Tassie Bid

http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/11/23/andrew-wilkie...

100% agree with this.  Need to ensure our own future.  Fudge Auckland, even with 2 million, the city will not support them. 

Yeah is more a league heartland with large PI popn. I understand Ipswich has stronger football following but Logan larger overall popn.

Recent news here is that NRL has dropped idea of expansion and that's a blow to Ipswich who were keen to bid for a team as a rival to the Broncos. Apart from a Logan team in national women's basketball league neither area has a local team to follow in any national comp, and that may persuade FFA to take a punt.

Still my money's on Southern Sydney team and a state govt backed team like Tassie or Canberra. Again Tassie apart from cricket has no team to follow in any of the national Aussie comps 

The NIX get 15k in Auckland on average... thats a lot of support for a team not within your own region, or one with "local players" in it.

Done right, it will be a success.

More importantly, NZF and the NIX need it. A derby would raise the profile of the game significantly in this country, increase membership and viewing ratings... see all the Aussie derby matches.

I'd be happy with NZF pumping money in... if they had it.

NZF? They can't even get behind the Nix! 

Far as I know ACFC will only get involved if there's a major backer/backers coming on board to carry ALL the risk. Otherwise why chuck away their annual CWC bunfest only to then see the club go down the gurgler?

Max cap 3,500 set by Council. No room for development.

whoever it is who bids from Auckland need to take some lessons from the breakers.

1) start small, both with playing staff and playing arena - make your home ground a fortress and in your first season go for hungry possibly raw players who will work hard game in game out.  Don't be sucked into getting the older star who may not be up to it.

2) schedule the game against the Nix at a larger venue (ah la the breakers with Vector) and market the crap out of it

3) build your fanbase by having cheap tickets, by keeping costs of facilities down in the first season or two and then look to go to a bigger venue as the club/franchise grows

4) Success will help but it's not the only way to build a strong club/franchise foundation.

Problems are where is this boutique 5-6k stadium in Auckland?  Personally I think Mt Smart #2 could be made into a decent little football ground, could code share with the Warriors for their training facilities etc.  Would need to move athletics somewhere else which could be a problem.

Another bidder from WA .... 

http://forum.insidesport.com.au/2451626/THE-FREMAN...

THE FREMANTLE CITY A LEAGUE LICENSE BID

Hello FCFC Members

Its been a work in progress for some time now and on behalf of the FCFC I'm ready to share the subject line bid to the public at large within the next 2 weeks and without going into the detail here of all elements of the model, I wanted to share the part where the WA football clubs and their members (including our own) play their part as stakeholders and where you can be a part of it.

OK, devils advocate time.

A2 league: Freo or 2nd Perth team, Adelaide city, Brisbane strikers, tassie, ACT, Wollongong, southern Sydney plus a NSW prem league team, south Melbourne plus another Vic prem team, Auckland. That's 11 already. 

If all these bids can show they have a ground, government and financial backing; why not a 2nd division A2? 

No other code could do it. 

Time to think long term and make a giant leap. 

From News Auckland's bid.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/a-league/ale...

It won't happen for 20 years, the FFA have said they'd need to renegotiate the licenses and there is no way all the franchise owners are going to agree to having their investment wiped out through relegation. It needed to be a provision on the license agreements from the get go.

Don't all licenses need to be renewed at some stage. Write it in as a clause.

Its not quite as straight forward as your post indicates. All teams signed on key metrics, whatever they were and if they are not met FFA can cancel a license, also I am sure something was signed if P & R was ever introduced they could be sent to a "B" league TBH I am not sure how strong this was or what is needed to invoke it, but it was part of the long term agreements. 

2 en bid from Brisbane .. 

IPSWICH-based Western Pride are poised to join fellow NPL Queensland club Brisbane Strikers in bidding to join the A-League.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/ipswichbased...

Decent article on this topic Canberra Times

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/soccer/tasmania-have-started-the-aleague-expansion-ball-rolling-20161126-gsydka.html

Brisbane bidders to work together with only one bid ... very smart..

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/a-league/bri...

Surely it can't be anything but good for NZ football and the A-League: 

+It gives the FFA another "Derby" that it so lusts after

+Nix fans in the north will have a team that they can actually go to.

+I fully expect many here (myself included) would then start supporting two teams.  

+I'm sure most kiwi football fans in NZ, Aus, rest of the world only watch Nix games and don't bother with the rest so would increase fan interest in other games meaning more $$$ out of Sky.  

+Will benefit NZ football as there will obviously be more professional pathways which can only be a good thing for the AWs.

With two teams it would boost the league's presence as a whole in New Zealand. One of the problems is that a lot of casual fans don't know/care who Bruno Fornaroli is despite him being one of the best in the league.

Tassie bid gets the support of the PM.... 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/turnbull-suppor...

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/12/01/read...

FFA should have entered South Melbourne as Melbourne's 2nd team in the A League. Too late now with Heart/City already in the league - but they will always struggle for a fan base, no matter how many marquee signings they have.

AFL did it smart here in Australia when they expanded the national AFL (Aussie Rules comp). They bought in Port Adelaide and Freemantle as 2nd teams for Adelaide (already had Adelaide Crows) and Perth (already had West Coast Eagles) respectively.

Both Port Adelaide and Freemantle were already long established big local clubs playing in the South Australian and Western Australian state Aussie Rules comps. So had existing fan bases when their clubs were accepted into the expanded national AFL comp.

The two AFL derbies in Adelaide and Perth are now massive games each AFL season.  No doubt the smartest major sports organisation in Australia is the AFL - way ahead of FFA, NRL (league) and ARU (rugby). 

Leasons there for FFA re expansion, esp if looking at extra teams in Sydney & Melbourne. 

This strategy would also enhance ACFC's chances of being included in any A League expansion, as an existing club - if only being 11 years old.

AFL have also had success when relocating sides from Melbourne - eg Sydney Swans (were South Melbourne Swans) and Brisbane Lions (were Fitzroy Lions). Controversial when it happened but both have been pretty successful relocations esp Sydney.

I like your first three ideas but I think success is vital in terms of crowd numbers, particularly after the honeymoon period is over. I would say they'd have to be pushing for a playoff spot by year 3 to maintain.

A lot of detail in the following Herald Sun article with dates for the expansion.. well past what has been talked about ... one and a half years away..

The following article sits behind a paywall so I have copied it in part…

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/a-league/aleague-expansion-plans-revealed-with-two-new-teams-to-join-in-201819/news-story/bc654d06b2b6e24ea013dfd84878073f

A-League expansion plans revealed with two new teams to join in 2018-19

DAVID DAVUTOVIC, Herald Sun

December 5, 2016 9:00pm

Subscriber only

AT least two new teams are set to join the A-League in 2018-19, with league chief Greg O’Rourke confirming that the expansion blueprint will be unveiled in February.

Meanwhile a new A-League broadcast deal is edging closer with Thursday the deadline for broadcasters to submit their tender documents.

FFA has spent the past two months negotiating and it’s understood that most Free-to-Air networks along with Optus and Bein Sports have expressed interest in broadcasting A-League from next season.

Fox Sports has last rights under the terms of the current $40m-a-year deal, with FFA hopeful the new deal will hit the $80m mark

Expansion is intertwined with TV negotiations, with FFA advising network executives to submit an additional figure for a 12-team competition in addition to a bid for the current 10-team rights.

FFA refused to comment on TV negotiations, but O’Rourke said FFA was investigating how and when the A-League could house 14-18 teams.

“The FFA have got a shortlist of consultants that we are talking to regarding the project scope which will help us build the framework,’’ O’Rourke said.

“We expect that that framework will be ready to put to board in February and if that’s approved it will form the guidelines to add an A-League team to an expanded competition with a view to this coming in the second year of the deal of broadcast, 2018-19.

“Our primary focus will be on the expansion of the A-League over the next 5-7 years and primarily focused on what is the right number of teams and what are the right geographies.

“That’s not to suggest that inter-dependencies of future promotion and relegation or a second division will be ignored but it won’t be primary focus.’’

No less than 10 clubs/consortiums want to join the A-League, with TV executives prefer expansion into bigger markets.

South Melbourne officials met with FFA last week while a joint Sutherland-St George-Illawarra bid is likely to be submitted, with further bids from Victoria, Brisbane and Tasmania set to be formally submitted.

O’Rourke said no bids would be rushed through before the strategy was revealed.

“Any meetings prior to the framework being finalized and the board approving it are more about being respectful and wanting to listen to interested parties who want to ask questions. It’s not about having detailed discussions,’’ he said.

“The FFA doesn’t want potential aspirants to spend time and money putting together a proposal and talking to government in a formal way, until they have a clarity of what is required.

“We have been saying for sometime that any new team in the A-League will need to add value for all existing stakeholders.’’

Why don't the FFA look at creating a second div with all the expansion teams in. Then have promo and relegation?

Also the current franchise agreements would need to be renegotiated, I can't see the clubs being keen on that.

Sunshine Coast bid

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/a-league/ade...

A consortium worth “billions of dollars in global investment” headed by Brisbane-based Indian entrepreneur Nirav Tripathi and including businessmen from Singapore, Dubai and China is ready to bankroll a bid.

Tripathi, whose multinational group of companies known as Diya has also formed a partnership with former FIFA World Player of the Year George Weah to establish football academies, has already had productive meetings with Sunshine Coast Council.

Might be partly due to the Nix not being our team.

Would love to see what sort of crowd Welly would come up with if Auckland FC had to play an A League side in Welly.

I went to every Kingz game played, including those played outside Auckland.

It became a regular thing to go to games. 

I dont have that regular thing with seeing the Nix. I think they should stop shipping the Nix around the country so they can get a regular run of games and build the crowd in Welly.

Auckland FC  would work I am sure.

This time of year was historically bad for the Kingz and the Knights. I went to one Kingz game in early Jan against I think Cnaberra where there were 1800 in the crowd. I have a feeling the Nix also get their lowest crowds around this time of year.

To use yesterdays crowd as proof that Auckland wouldnt support a team is either trolling or daft.

Although I agree with a lot of your points, I don't think a second franchise would be ALL good for the Phoenix. 

A side-effect of a second New Zealand club in the league could be the dilution of New Zealand talent. Nearly all A-League quality New Zealanders are playing for the Phoenix nowadays, with the exception of Roux and Rojas. As has been widely agreed upon on the forums, the best type of marketing comes down to winning games. Will the Phoenix be able to do this if a second team in New Zealand opens up and potentially offer New Zealand players more competitive wages?

Currently, the Phoenix are the only team in the league where New Zealand players don't take up a Visa spot, thus giving us a unique advantage. This encourages us to invest in local talent. Unfortunately we may not have enough of a talent pool domestically to find players who are both Kiwi, and at an A-League level for two squads. This may mean the Phoenix (and even a new Auckland outfit) could struggle in terms of results and domestic recruitment. This could also drive wages for NZ players to increase due to a higher demand for them due to a second outfit. We may have to pay more for the same/lesser quality.

A team in Auckland will effectively end the Wellington Phoenix' monopoly of professional football in New Zealand. This means financially beneficial ventures such as our trips to Auckland may be very few and far between. As discussed in another forum of ours, the Phoenix actually make more money, or at least less of a loss, when they play games outside of  Westpac Stadium. (e.g games in Auckland, Christchurch etc.) The Phoenix lose money every game at the Westpac, whereas costs for games in other places in New Zealand are underwritten by third parties (Sauce: Patrick). With a professional team already in Auckland, it wouldn't make sense to have games there outside of the NZ derby. 

So although a second franchise may be beneficial for NZ Football, and the A-League, it may not be too great for the Nix. As an ex-pat Wellingtonian now living in Auckland, I would love to be able to attend more fixtures, however if an Auckland team was to eventuate, I wouldn't jump ship. 

I suppose your opinion on whether or not a second A-League franchise in New Zealand would work or not comes down to whether you prioritise the well-being of the Phoenix or NZ Football. 

I don't know if that's true. Ernie said that he couldn't sign NZ players because of the potential that they are called up for the all whites. There are a couple of A-League quality players in the SS Premiership.

The main problem would be the fact that any football related sponsorship is spread between the two teams.

If ACFC eventually get in the A League did yesterday's poor crowd show that Mt Smart is not really any better than North Harbour as a home venue?

I still think a revamped Eden Park no 2 ground is worth looking at as a football venue

Anyway, this is all immaterial. It will be many many years if at all before Auckland gets another Crack at the A league. There are probably 10 teams ahead in the pecking order.