A league 2nd division - the chat that just won't go away
APIA
Preston Lions
Gold Coast Knights
Sydney Olympic
Peninsula Power
Olympic FC
Sunshine Coast Fire
Rocksale Ilinden FC
So much for the earlier theories that clubs wouldnt want to front up the $700k.
Only need 5 more from a vast pool to be bigger than the actual A-league.
With a massive drop off in quality as you add those 8 extra teams.
A 14 team ALM (adding Canberra & Auckland), giving you 26 game regular season H&A games plus finals, I'd go for. With a 12-14 team 2nd Division.
Then when your 2nd Division proves it's financially stable, and you can bring in parachute payments etc so that if for example the Nix got relegated they don't go bust - and you bring in pro/rel.
Maybe even expand the ALM regular season to a top 7 & bottom 7, after 26 rounds, giving you 32 games regular season. Like a lot of Euro leagues do.
But think the whole pro/rel thing would be years off.
Two teams with the * about waiting for their cheques to clear.
Hopefully when all is said and done they have 16-18 teams left standing for the start of it.
If it all happens wonder if there will be a bit of an exodus of the better domestic NZ players across the Tasman? I'm guessing these new 2nd Division clubs will be restricted to 3-5 non Australians per team.
Coinciding with a OFC professional league kicking off that might have 2-3 NZ teams, a wave of pro/semi-pro opportunities for the best talent still in NZ. But a drop in the quality of NZ's various domestic winter leagues maybe, as anywhere from 10-60 players exit about the same time.
Sutherland/Cronulla Sharks interested as well....
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/300823784/cronulla-sharks-throw-hat-in-the-ring-for-aleague-mens-proposed-second-division
"The RFP phase will involve the distribution of comprehensive Bid Documents to the shortlisted clubs, including an information memorandum, NST related data, financial forecasts, key terms of a Club Participation Agreement, and draft transaction documents.
The proposed start date for this competition would be March 2024.
Football Australia is pleased to formally announce that 26 clubs have successfully proceeded to the Request for Proposal (RFP) phase of the National Second Tier (NST) competition. https://t.co/xq7mTKD5at
— Football Australia (@FootballAUS) May 10, 2023
The 6 clubs to miss out from the original 32 applicants were Valentine FC (Northern NSW), Peninsula Power (QLD), Playford City (SA), Bentleigh Greens (VIC), Cockburn City (WA), and Blacktown City (NSW).
Blacktown City certainly appear to be dissapointed that their EOI for the National Second Division was rejected pic.twitter.com/gKItfdQpTQ
— NPL Central (@nplcentral) May 11, 2023
Blacktown City certainly appear to be dissapointed that their EOI for the National Second Division was rejected pic.twitter.com/gKItfdQpTQ
— NPL Central (@nplcentral) May 11, 2023
Plan seems workable with some merit. And if the ALM clubs as reported seem happy with the concept, it probably is a good compromise solution. Surely giving say a financially stable South Melbourne 5 years to prove themselves in the NSD before being promoted up to the ALM, is better than taking a franchise fee from souless Western United.
Would add a bit of late season drama too, as teams try to avoid dropping from the A1 to A2. But without the financial hurt of dropping out of the ALM altogether. You'd need to still have a salary cap, so best players in A2 league don't just try flock to A1 league. But sounds like they will take their time (years) to work up to a pro/rel format, and the issues that will arise.
Club executives were recently briefed on the blueprint, conceived by the Australian Professional Leagues, which closely mirrors the way Japan’s J.League grew from one professional division to three over of 21 years.
According to multiple sources who are familiar with the discussion, the APL told the clubs they were prepared to admit the strongest teams from the second division into the men’s A-League on an ongoing basis - provided those clubs were able to satisfy a set of strict criteria to prove their financial stability and other off-field bona fides, and demonstrate a capacity for sustained high performance.
Football Australia has reached a significant milestone in the National Second Tier (NST) Application Process, distributing the Request for Proposal (RFP) Materials to the 26 shortlisted applicants today.https://t.co/EGPLh8g0nh
— Football Australia (@FootballAUS) June 21, 2023
As stated in my previous post up there somewhere - Likely NST to kickoff March 2024, consisting of 10-16 teams.
Exciting news all round. We should know the composition of this set up by September/October.
Expecting to see a few Kiwi lads knocking about the Regional/National leagues to head over to Aussie and sign with the successful applicant clubs when this all gets confirmed.
Inbox: Football Australia’s key talking points from the newly unveiled domestic match calendar for 2023/24.
— Joey Lynch (@joeylynchy) July 13, 2023
International breaks will be observed by the A-Leagues, with the exception of the rescheduled AFC Asian Cup. pic.twitter.com/BxtAVL9Z8i
Does that 5th point mean the 2nd Tier will start March 2024?
Would it be an option for the Phoenix to sidle up to one of these NST clubs to arrange loans and playing time for the youngsters and fringe players on our books?
I mean I can hear the screams from Australia before the question has even been asked, but I don't think it is an entirely preposterous idea. Cheeky, yes, but from a purely NZ orientated standpoint, getting minutes for players in what already looks & sounds like a far more visible league (glares at NZF) would be beneficial for us down the line.
Pretty sure we're going to see a bunch of the top National League guys opt to look over there once it's all confirmed. No harm in asking I guess. 🤷♂️
Would it be an option for the Phoenix to sidle up to one of these NST clubs to arrange loans and playing time for the youngsters and fringe players on our books?
I mean I can hear the screams from Australia before the question has even been asked, but I don't think it is an entirely preposterous idea. Cheeky, yes, but from a purely NZ orientated standpoint, getting minutes for players in what already looks & sounds like a far more visible league (glares at NZF) would be beneficial for us down the line.
Pretty sure we're going to see a bunch of the top National League guys opt to look over there once it's all confirmed. No harm in asking I guess. 🤷♂️
Not the silliest idea. But alot of the push for a NSD/T in Australia, is that not enough young players are getting a chance in the ALM. That old agrument that the NSL with it's higher number of teams than the ALM, gave more opportunities to young kids, leading to the Socceroos having it's 'Golden Generation' in the mid 2000s.
For sure there will be a cap on visa player numbers in the NSD, and Kiwis will understandably be treated as visas.
The NSD will not commence in 2024. A number of clubs are not happy with Football Australia’s current proposal. Several high profile clubs will not be submitting proposals one of them being Melbourne Knights FC. pic.twitter.com/Jc26qz4pQl
— Mark Ivkovic (@mivkaa) July 27, 2023
Well that's most unwelcome news.
For those unfamiliar with the name. Mark Ivkovic was the Football Operations Manager for the Melbourne Knights up until a year or so ago, so I'd imagine still very up with the play.
Football Australia today issued the following update on the National Second Tier (NST) Request for Proposal phase (RFP). pic.twitter.com/r4bTErNXxz
— Football Australia (@FootballAUS) July 27, 2023
However I thought the planned slow introduction of pro/rel, was a pretty well thought through plan. From memory no promotion for a number of years into the ALM, then maybe like 6 teams promoted over time - to get 20 ALM teams, then split into A1 & A2. Something like that, seemed not the worst idea.
Any potential NST team has got to the realise the ALM itself is pretty fragile (look at the Glory & Jets) - and the existing 12 clubs (plus it seems soon Auckland & Canberra) need to be protected foremost. They need to be patient with any pro/rel ambitions.
Not sure if it's the former or the latter issue that Melb Knights ain't happy about.
Football Australia is pleased to announce the conclusion of phase two, the Request for Proposal (RFP) phase of the National Second Tier (NST) Application Process.
— Football Australia (@FootballAUS) August 29, 2023
2nd phase of the process complete. No word yet on how many clubs submitted a proposal to go through to the final phase of selection, but I'm sure that will come out in the wash.
Notable clubs that have stated they have applied so far - South Melbourne FC & Sydney United...
I'm just wondering if I'm missing something as full pro/rel across the pyramid often seems to be touted as the end goal.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/the-plan-to-embrace-promotion-and-relegation-in-the-a-league-20230516-p5d8qj.html
Club executives were recently briefed on the blueprint, conceived by the Australian Professional Leagues, which closely mirrors the way Japan’s J.League grew from one professional division to three over of 21 years.
According to multiple sources who are familiar with the discussion, the APL told the clubs they were prepared to admit the strongest teams from the second division into the men’s A-League on an ongoing basis - provided those clubs were able to satisfy a set of strict criteria to prove their financial stability and other off-field bona fides, and demonstrate a capacity for sustained high performance.
The APL is determined to first expand the A-League from 12 to 16 teams - first through the introduction of Canberra and Auckland teams in the 2024-25 season as previously announced, and then through another round of expansion into new markets such as south-east Queensland, Wollongong and Tasmania - before any NPL clubs are promoted or admitted.
I'm just wondering if I'm missing something as full pro/rel across the pyramid often seems to be touted as the end goal.
You gave a valid point, and thinly populated or widely populated places are harder than the close neighbourhoods of UK / Europe.
Aus is not too far removed from (parts of) NZ though.
Take National League; under its current form takes teams from Northern Central and Southern league.
Central league has relegation. If you are in the Wellington area, you drop to Cap Prem, Cap 1 and down the leagues.
If you are in Napier, you drop to Central federation league, then federation league east, the Hawkes Bay league.
New Plymouth teams drop to Federation league, then Fed west then Taranaki Prems.
Promotion to Central league is via playoff between Central Fed and Cap Prem winners.
As the NST process moves toward the completion phase, the revised competition commencement date has moved to March/April 2025.
— Football Australia (@FootballAUS) November 6, 2023
📰 Read the full statement below👇https://t.co/pyArXbB7wl
+ 1 year added to commencement of the NST - March 2025 kickoff, not 2024.
Inaugural teams for the first season are announced two weeks from today - November 20th.
Have a read above. Pro/rel between NST and ALM isn’t really the plan.
More gradually expanding the ALM to 20-24 teams from NST clubs deemed able to go up. Then splitting the ALM into A1 and A2 of 10-12 teams each, with pro/rel between A1 & A2.
No real deadlines it seems, more as long as if takes for teams to be ready to join the ALM
Based on how Japan over time grew its club pyramid J1, J2 & J3. On face value seems s sound strategy
Lots of things still to work out I'm sure, but creating a 20-24 team league and cleaving it in half all of a sudden seems a bit funny?
24 teams likely very ambitious, but could get to 20 teams. The Gong, Tassie, Sth Melb, 2nd teams (derbies) in QLD and WA. A Christchurch club.
Given ALM clubs seem to be scaling back player budgets, in the hope of greater financial sustainability, clubs could hopefully survive off crowds as low as 5-6k. You just wouldn’t want playing standards to drop much. But we keep hearing of players in the NPL or NZ NL deserving of a chance at pro football. Treat OFC Island players aka Krishna, Kaltack as non Visas
Lots of things still to work out I'm sure, but creating a 20-24 team league and cleaving it in half all of a sudden seems a bit funny?
Lots of things still to work out I'm sure, but creating a 20-24 team league and cleaving it in half all of a sudden seems a bit funny?
Not a NST of 20-24 teams but eventually the ALM split in two (A1 & A2) so 20-24 teams possibly, with pro/rel between A1 & A2
Lots of things still to work out I'm sure, but creating a 20-24 team league and cleaving it in half all of a sudden seems a bit funny?
Not a NST of 20-24 teams but eventually the ALM split in two (A1 & A2) so 20-24 teams possibly, with pro/rel between A1 & A2
I dont really understand the need to split the league when you reach 20-24 teams? How do you make that call that suddenly 12 teams that have been in the top flight end up in a second division?