He’s also been one of the leaders in the huge project that has been establishing and growing the academy. Considering where we were and where we are now with the academy, he certainly hasn’t been cruising with the easy option.
The phoenix didn't give him the opportunity after Talay left, thems the breaks. If it happens, and I'd think Foley would be after a name coach rather than Greenacre, then I'd hope the club has contractual agreements to stop Greenacre raiding our academy.
Would that be possible? Obviously pro-contracted players and scholarship deals would be different. But if Player X is 18 and just on an amateur deal, would it even be legal to prevent them in any way, if they aren't employed? Even under 18 as they aren't moving overseas. No different to Coach Y taking Player Z from any Northern League team. I don't know enough about football registration rules, but that's possibly a reason a few youth contracts were given. From next month the off contract guys will be able to be approached to sign pre-contracts anyway.
Not sure about Greenacre. I kind of wondered why he kept getting left out as head Nix coach despite being assistant for ages. Not sure when he finally got his qualifications but you do kind of wonder about his drive and ambition. Staying at the Nix was a comfortable option. IMO he should have left the club earlier and gone after a head coach somewhere in the NZ National League or even State league in Australia. I think Foley, with the contacts he has, would look for a proven head coach. Greenacre would be a good number two though.
I think you'll probably find alot of why Greenie has stayed in Wellington with the Nix is the stability it has offered him for wife and kids. His two boys are pretty young and obviously need stability with schooling etc.
incorrect family dynamic (not that it needs to be discussed)
Not sure about Greenacre. I kind of wondered why he kept getting left out as head Nix coach despite being assistant for ages. Not sure when he finally got his qualifications but you do kind of wonder about his drive and ambition. Staying at the Nix was a comfortable option. IMO he should have left the club earlier and gone after a head coach somewhere in the NZ National League or even State league in Australia. I think Foley, with the contacts he has, would look for a proven head coach. Greenacre would be a good number two though.
I think you'll probably find alot of why Greenie has stayed in Wellington with the Nix is the stability it has offered him for wife and kids. His two boys are pretty young and obviously need stability with schooling etc.
incorrect family dynamic (not that it needs to be discussed)
what part did I miss? (happy for the correction if required) actually nevermind, I got him and Bally mixed up
I honestly wouldn't begrudge Greenie if he took the job. Though I do believe that doing what he's done so far has allowed him a certain stability in his personal life which after a long playing career must have been refreshing! Nothing we could do to stop him from encouraging players to go to Akl but if they were sold on the Nix would definitely be in for some development fees...
I also don't think Greenie would be first choice but I've seen stranger things in football
Nix have also had a bit of a protected status with their Academy players until now. Not many Aussie ALM clubs are going to use a Visa spot on a young Weenix NZ kid looking to get ALM mins. I guess it did happen with Rojas & Barba.
But in reverse the Nix for years have been signing young kids like Cam Devlin who have come through the Academy systems at other ALM clubs. Admittedly not many have been a success at the Nix like Devlin. But now with a NZ rival in Auckland, they just face the same reality as most football clubs worldwide. Young talent you develop, signing elsewhere in your league on a free.
One of the best people I’ve ever met in football. He’s been terrific in a number of roles at WPX (including interim ALM coach 3 times) and knows the NZ football scene intimately. If there’s an opportunity for him in Auckland, he’d have to be a leading candidate. https://t.co/gj54ojv0n9
I think it would be a good move for Greenie and the Auckland 'goodnight kiwis', and would happily support him in it. But totally get that what he does lose is the stability the nix have offered. Risk/reward situation.
A dangerous prediction that could leave egg on my face I know but there is no way Greenie will be signed as Auckland manager. I base this on the identity of the owners, the fact the club needs to make a couple of top signings (including manager) to make the right initial impact in the Auckland and NZ market and appointing him to the top job doesn’t scream that. Maybe signed as Academy manager based on his experience but the top job? no way. Its the type of appointment some local owner might make but not Foley’s group with their pedigree.
A dangerous prediction that could leave egg on my face I know but there is no way Greenie will be signed as Auckland manager. I base this on the identity of the owners, the fact the club needs to make a couple of top signings (including manager) to make the right initial impact in the Auckland and NZ market and appointing him to the top job doesn’t scream that. Maybe signed as Academy manager based on his experience but the top job? no way. Its the type of appointment some local owner might make but not Foley’s group with their pedigree.
I can see that point of view. But why I think he would be in the mix is that foleys group don’t have expertise in setting up football clubs. They have done one in ice hockey(?) but not a football club, nor one with a different culture from American culture. So I think they will need someone who knows the Nz scene to get the best out of it and also work with experienced pros who they bring over to lead the team. I’d say greenie is well suited to both of those things.
The phoenix didn't give him the opportunity after Talay left, thems the breaks. If it happens, and I'd think Foley would be after a name coach rather than Greenacre, then I'd hope the club has contractual agreements to stop Greenacre raiding our academy.
What sort of contracts exist which stop amateurs doing what they want?
Nothing enforceable I'm sure. But it was more on the Greenacre side of thing. Like a restraint of trade clause in peoples contracts around employment.
The phoenix didn't give him the opportunity after Talay left, thems the breaks. If it happens, and I'd think Foley would be after a name coach rather than Greenacre, then I'd hope the club has contractual agreements to stop Greenacre raiding our academy.
Would that be possible? Obviously pro-contracted players and scholarship deals would be different. But if Player X is 18 and just on an amateur deal, would it even be legal to prevent them in any way, if they aren't employed? Even under 18 as they aren't moving overseas. No different to Coach Y taking Player Z from any Northern League team. I don't know enough about football registration rules, but that's possibly a reason a few youth contracts were given. From next month the off contract guys will be able to be approached to sign pre-contracts anyway.
No, but people put unenforceable clauses in contracts all the time.
Why has everything gone so quiet on the Auckland franchise? APL announced a preferred bidder & that bidder was interviewed on the radio as though it was a done deal an entire month ago. The team is supposed to be entering the competition this coming season. Why no further news yet, other than a fairly poorly sourced report that Greenacre was in the running to be the coach (not exactly the most exciting of rumours).
Why has everything gone so quiet on the Auckland franchise? APL announced a preferred bidder & that bidder was interviewed on the radio as though it was a done deal an entire month ago. The team is supposed to be entering the competition this coming season. Why no further news yet, other than a fairly poorly sourced report that Greenacre was in the running to be the coach (not exactly the most exciting of rumours).
And on top of that, next to nothing about the Canberra bid. Surely both these teams wont be ready to start a pre season in 9~ months
Probably they're just in the admin phase, they've announced it but now they have to get through the license agreements, start negotiating for office space, training pitches, talking to sponsors, etc. Not to mention negotiations with coaches, players, etc.
A lot of stuff to do before there is anything worth announcing. If they have a license agreement then they won't even be allowed to talk to contracted A-League players for another few months.
Interesting article in "World Soccer" magazine June 2023. Entitled "Multi-Club Ownership (Part Two)" About the pitfalls and complexities of one owner owning multiple clubs. It refers to Bill Foley's involvement in football: "In Europe, fans have routinely protested at takeovers and in some cases even repelled investors, such as NAC Breda [Matt Garbett's club] in the Netherlands last year, where a bid by City Football Group failed after fan protests. The key issue for supporters is they do not want their team to become a feeder club for bigger sides. 'Clubs are part of their local communities and not suitable for this structure,' says Martin Endemann, head of policy for Football Supporters Europe. 'Feeder clubs make some sense but for fans it only makes sense if you are the top club in the chain.' This was illustrated when the consortium of US investors led by Bill Foley bought Premier League side Bournemouth for £120 million in December 2022, and then a month later took a 33 percent share in French club Lorient, who were chasing a place in Europe. Bournemouth subsequently snapped up Lorient's Burkina Faso international Dango Quatarra and the French club's European aspirations bean to falter. Players unions are also concerned at the impact of their members caught up in these networks, as the number of players tied up in these ownership networks is massive....nealy 10,000 footballers involved."
Multi-club ownership can lead to some dodgy dealings and evasion of rules, as we saw in the A-League a few years ago when former Phoenix player Anthony Caceres was placed on the books of Manchester City who nominally paid his wages and loaned him to Melbourne City so that they could evade the A-League salary cap. It can lead to difficulties too when clubs with the same owner are drawn in international club competitions such as UEFA club comps or the FIFA Club World Cup. Two teams owned by Red Bull (Salzburg and Leipzig) qualified for the Champions League in 2017 contravening the UEFA statute that two or more clubs with the same owner can't compete in a UEFA club comp. This meant that Red Bull had to change the clubs' ownership structure to satisfy UEFA. These two clubs did actually end up playing each other in the group stage of the Europa League in 2018-19. It came out after Abramovich was sanctioned and had to give up ownership of Chelsea, that he has also been secretly funding Dutch club Vitesse Arnhem- the chairman claimed last year that he was under instructions not to do well enough to qualify for Europe in case problems arose with UEFA.
After five years of turmoil, supporters at The Valley are now looking to the future with relief, apprehension and excitement. Tom BrandhorstThu 16 Jan 2020 In January 2014, an unknown [billionaire] Belgian businessman called Roland Duchâtelet bought Charlton Athletic for £14m. With the club sitting 19th in the Championship, there was excitement among Charlton fans that, in the modern age of billionaire foreign owners, they might just be on the cusp of something great. But it wasn’t to be. Within two years, hundreds of Charlton fans were marching towards the Valley in a faux funeral procession, trailing behind a coffin that symbolised the death of the football club at the hands of its reckless owner.
To many Charlton supporters, Duchâtelet’s “regime” offers the perfect example of how not to run a football club: belligerently pursuing an unrealistic vision without any consideration for the fans until the club has been driven to ruin, both on and off the pitch.
His ambition was to incorporate Charlton into a wider network of European clubs – a model not far from what the Pozzo family have done at Watford or even City Football Group’s growing global empire. It would be a mutually beneficial, money-saving agreement, in which players would move from club to club, developing and progressing. However, Duchâtelet’s strategy underestimated the talent required to compete in the Championship. Charlton found themselves ill-equipped for the task, with poor players from mediocre teams in Duchâtelet’s network, and were soon languishing in League One.
Interesting. But I think that football fans in the top half of the Nth Island will initially just be happy to have a A League club to support. One that seems like it will be very well funded, and may (MAY) even push for trophies early on.
If later some young striker star signs for Plymouth or Bournemouth/Lorient part way through an ALM season, taking his goals with him well them's the breaks.
Interesting. But I think that football fans in the top half of the Nth Island will initially just be happy to have a A League club to support. One that seems like it will be very well funded, and may (MAY) even push for trophies early on.
If later some young striker star signs for Plymouth or Bournemouth/Lorient part way through an ALM season, taking his goals with him well them's the breaks.
I agree - our situation in NZ is different to clubs in the UK or Europe in that we are a "developing" football territory with few local resources. So overseas investment can be helpful. But, we shouldn't be naive and need to be careful about the motivation and intentions of foreign investors in our football. See the piece about my club Charlton's disasterous experience with a Belgian billionaire owner of multiple clubs I've added to my post above.. Also Foley's comments in this article relating to his takeover of Bournemouth could raise some concern: https://www.therealreview.com/2023/04/17/bill-foley-resigns-as-chairman-of-foley-wines/ "Bill Foley told the BBC last year that he led a takeover of the club because he needs to be ‘captain of the ship’—and has described himself as ‘a dictator’." I see that Foley is a former US military man. And that he was a financial backer of Trump in both 2016 and 2020. Interesting article about him here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12213699/Bill-Foleys-grand-plan-Bournemouth-no-surprise.html "Gary O'Neil was sat at home on Sunday musing over Bournemouth's plans for pre-season. Come Monday morning he had been sacked over the phone and his successor, Andoni Iraola, appointed within two hours. The move was a major shock and was, largely, met with condemnation after O'Neil had kept Bournemouth in the Premier League against the odds, given the Cherries' more modest budget. But, truthfully, it should not have been such a surprise, not with new owner Bill Foley calling the shots. Working with Foley isn't easy. He makes the decisions and he takes the blame, that's how it goes. 'I have looked at several teams over the last two or three years and they all involved minority investment and someone else is already in charge. I don't like that. I'm a dictator,' he told BBC Radio Solent upon buying the team. 'When I'm involved, I need to be the captain of the ship. I had to wait for a situation where I could buy the team myself, with my partners of course, and control the destiny of the team.' Bournemouth's upset win at home over Newcastle this morning takes them out of the relegation places (just). But it's been a mediocre season so far with that only their second win. The sacking of O'Neil and the appointment ofthe Spaniard Iraola by Foley, who made himself Bournemouth chairman despite no experience in football whatsoever, perhaps displays how his self-confessed "dictatorial" tendancy can lead to trouble. Iraola came completely out of left field with his only management experience being in the Cypriot league (sacked after a long run of poor results), the Spanish second tier (three seasons) and one season in la Liga coaching Rayo Vallecano (one of the smallest clubs in la Liga). Whereas O'Neill is going okay at Wolves who sit 11th on the table, despite only taking over the week before the season started after their Spaniard quit. (O'Neill: "Only the second English manager to ever beat Pep Guardiola's Manchester City.")
On the other hand, Foley does have a lot of business interests in our wine and hospitality industry and has some commitment to this country, unlike Duchâtelet who had no ties to Britain and used Charlton as a plaything and to further the interests of his other bigger clubs he owned. Also, there is really no dirt or major controversy on Foley to be found anywhere and he seems well-liked.
In recent weeks it has been announced that Foley is bidding for a stake in Hibs in the Scottish Premier League: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-67280027 "It is understood he has wanted to invest in the Edinburgh club for months and has held initial talks with a view to making a non-controlling investment. ...BBC Scotland understands Mr Foley's Black Knight's sport and entertainment consortium is interested in referring players in and out of Hibs to other teams under its control, but would not be involved in the management of the club."
Early days for Iraola at the Cherries. But coaching a small club in La Liga not bad preparation for coaching Bournemouth in the EPL. And he overachieved with Rayo Vallecano to be fair. Leeds were sniffing around and RV didn't want him to leave. Sometimes unknown foreign managers in the EPL stink it up, and other times they go bloody well. Ange has gone okay since arriving in Britain as a complete nobody.
Foley has talked the talk abouting making sure the local football community feel invested in an Auckland franchise. He's also stated that most of the football staff will be Kiwis.
His use of dictator is a bit careless, but can understand why a person with his success in business, needs the feeling of having control on the decision making. Sort of character that would be greatly frustrated with every club matter (however minor) having to be discussed & joint consenus met. It worked for him in the NHL with Las Vegas Golden Knights, another start up franchise he 100% owns. We wait to see how it pans out.
Needs to be put in context. We are a different beast to those clubs and their history. Any kiwi player playing for the nix who secured a move to the premier league, French league 1 or even the Scottish premiership, would go with the blessing of the fever.
I don't think it's fair to act like a player moving abroad in a fair bit of business is in spirit the same as a player being advanced through a feeder system. It's about autonomy.
And we want to imagine as football fans that our clubs' owners want the same thing as us - a club that produces self-sustainable success. That way, we feel like the success is genuinely ours. But if that's not his goal - if his goal is simply to produce talent for his other clubs, no matter the loss (and he promises to spend to the cap), then I'm not sure any early silverware will really feel like a shared success for Aucklanders. I'd much rather suffer through it and feel like I've truely earnt something.
And I know that this won't affect his bottom line, and I have no reason to think he can't run a football club, but sometimes I feel like A-League fans worry so much about whether or not their league is working and viable to actually ask how they want to be represented as fans.
As I've said before, I think it's all a bit gross but it's the continuity of fans that makes a club, so if a good strong fan voice develops it should be alright. Just hope that can happen before we have a team named after some bloody military academy college football team... :/
Well said! The tendency for the smaller club in a multi-club set-up to become a feeder for the bigger clubs in the portfolio (or a dumping ground for players who didn't make it at the bigger clubs but are still under contract) needs to be balanced by placing value on success for the smaller club in its own right and valuing the supporters.
The experience with the existing multi-club foreign owner in the A-League, the City Football Group, has been more that it's been Melbourne City's most capable young managers who have been moved on to other clubs in the portfolio to the detriment of the club - Kisnorbo to Troyes and Buckingham to Mumbai. Kisnorbo's ludicrous extended failure at French club Troyes where CFG refuse to sack him no matter how bad the results, shows how CFG don't really care about the Troyes fans at all - it's all about shuttling managers around their clubs with no rhyme or reason: https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/no-merci-troyes-fans-lose-faith-in-kisnorbo-project-600972
NO MERCI: TROYES FANS LOSE FAITH IN KISNORBO 'PROJECT'
Besieged Patrick Kisnorbo has dodged the guillotine for now - but close observers of struggling French Ligue 2 Troyes believe it will take seismic shift in sentiment to win back the trust of disaffected fans.
A City Football Group delegation held crisis talks with Kisnorbo during the week after a nightmare run of just two wins from 33 games since taking charge 11 months ago.
They opted to hand him a stay of execution.
However, such is the disconnect between Kisnorbo and the club’s supporters, it’s inconceivable to many locals how much longer he can be left in charge of a team which has lost 20 games during his troubled tenure and been relegated into the bargain.
Troyes hover just outside the Ligue 2 relegation zone on goal difference after a single win in nine matches, and it’s not just Kisnorbo feeling the heat, with many fans also calling for the exit of the CFG, which in 2020 made the club the 10th of its worldwide stable.
The rap sheet levelled at Kisnorbo going into tonight’s visit to Valenciennes includes assertions of sacrificing results in pursuit of a mysterious “project” supporters view as nebulous, failing to learn even rudimentary French - none of his assistants speak the lingo either - and an inability to motivate his players, many of whom are seen as too young and inconsistent to be part of a side seriously seeking a return to the top division.
Alan Mangin, of the L'Est éclair newspaper which covers the club, told FTBL: “The fans no longer believe in Kisnorbo or the City Football Group project.
“There are too many defeats, then there was relegation in Ligue 2 and the owners did not react. The main problem is the lack of results, with two wins in more than 30 matches....."
Does the salary cap in the A League help dilute those concerns a bit? We can only have so many foreign players at our clubs and I wouldn’t begrudge any ANZAC player moving up the chain in such an arrangement. Add in a couple of players (a la Stevie Taylor) coming in to help develop players and the odd young rising star here for a short time sounds ok. I can see the concern for other clubs in other competitions without really understanding why. At the Nix, fans are probably happier seeing our best players head away to greener pastures in higher leagues (notice I don’t but Rojas in that category lol).
I guess the danger of an owner with multiple clubs is they lose focus. The City groups ownership of Troyes in .France is a good example. It appears the owners just don’t give a shiite. Troyes were in Ligue 1 when they were bought. The record of owners with multiple clubs investing in France has been a disaster. Especially the Americans. Bordeaux was bought by an American investment group, got relegated and are now near bottom of Ligue 2. Lyon who beat Man City in the CL a couple of years ago, got bought by an American investor and the club is currently dead last in the Ligue with zero wins. There are plenty of other examples. The biggest problem is that these owners often just don’t understand football culture. If Foley adds Auckland to his portfolio of clubs then there is a danger that Auckland, at the bottom of the chain will get neglected. The dream that your club will be showered with riches from the rest of the owners group is just that…..a dream.
It all really depends on the man himself. It seems he is interested in football and success. He has been to NZ and maybe even knows the Nix owners.
He already sounds better than the City group for us.
I think personality is important for a club. A lot of it is going to be his personality, with hopefully a fair bit of local personality. City is a corporate franchise. Though quite a successful one.
Part of the problem for Auckland too is that it doesn’t have much of an identity. Little binds us- perhaps the Night Markets are the main thing that spans East, West, North and South? So a franchise has to kind of invent things to unite us and breathe life into them. We’re not City of Sails, or Yuppie life or the mountains or the Knights come to that. The Aces is meaningless, as is the Blues. The council has the Pohutukawa.
I think that’s why most on here seem to favour Auckland FC. American style named teams are not traditional or well named here generally. Keep it simple. A knight on the badge with something else maybe. The Harbour Bridge or One Tree Hill. Rangitoto. Then fill it up with the personality of the owner, CEO, manager, captain, players and fans to give it a bit more meaning…
I think it's still up to the jury how efficiently he will run the club. I'm not being too cynical about that side of things but I think it's worth noting that he hasn't been in the business for that long.
I'm not too worried about Auckland's identity. Sure, it's a big place, but it's still pretty clearly defined. You know if you're an Aucklander or not.
At the end of the day it's up to the fans to make the club theirs, but I still hope Foley can put his money where his mouth is when he talks about embedding the club in the community.
I am not really concerned about Foley running the Auckland club. I guess most fans would settle for a well run and financed club with the right people managing and coaching. If the club has a solid squad and regularly qualifies for the playoffs then most fans will be happy. Just having another viable A League club in NZ is a major plus. It is a complete win win for football in NZ. Especially if they develop local young talent through their youth academy.
I suspect like most tnhings he owns he wont really be involved in the "day to day stuff", he's the owner only, he'll set the expectations and hire the people to achieve those. I'd even suggest he'd be more removed that the Welnix owners given he doesnt live in NZ.
I cannot be bothered researching or reading this whole thread, so can someone please answer my questions:
- Is the Auckland franchise confirmed for next season? - If they are in the league from next season, any ideas on where they will be playing? - What is going on with the formation of the Blue Balls supporters group?
I cannot be bothered researching or reading this whole thread, so can someone please answer my questions:
- Is the Auckland franchise confirmed for next season? - If they are in the league from next season, any ideas on where they will be playing? - What is going on with the formation of the Blue Balls supporters group?
I cannot be bothered researching or reading this whole thread, so can someone please answer my questions:
- Is the Auckland franchise confirmed for next season? - If they are in the league from next season, any ideas on where they will be playing? - What is going on with the formation of the Blue Balls supporters group?
Jesus wept, that's not really the name they're going with is it
