Auckland FC - Once the Knights, Always the Knights

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/133146417/eight-promoters-pitch-plans-for-a-major-stadium-in-auckland

You'd have to think Foley would be one of the eight involved in this. Surely?

Either that, or he and his team will be keeping a very close eye on proceedings.

Hopefully they finally sort a waterfront stadium.
I could genuinely convince 5+ people every week to stay after work on a Friday for Beers and Football.

Getting those same people to commit to a Saturday evening game in Penrose? Sooo hard!

In light of these revelations for Auckland, it would be good if it were kept to a 15,000-25,000 capacity max.

Aucklanders are fickle. Aucklanders have also seemingly fallen out of love with attending live sport - There is no reason to have another 40,000-50,000 seat stadium that gets filled out 2-3 times max per year, especially if Eden Park redevelopments do still go ahead.

Would be happy to see developers take a leaf out of the USL Championship/USL League One playbook in terms of building from the ground up.

Memphis 901, Indy Eleven, Milwaukee Pro Soccer - All works are in the pipeline or will start development at some point in the near future. Heaps of other examples coming out too because Americans love to build a stadium!

You just know that the developers circling such a project will absolutely be looking to develop a precinct so that they can get their pound of flesh as well - Accommodation, Food, Apartments, Hospitality, Bars etc etc.

If part of the plan is that Eden Park is demolished, any new Waterfront Stadium will have to have a similar capacity in the 50,000-60,000 range. And you think it is most likely EP would be demolished sitting on highly valuable land, in a city with an ongoing housing shortage.

You need a National Stadium minimum 50K capacity to give NZ any chance of staging future big events like co hosting a mens Football World Cup (1-2 pools), Rugby World Cup etc etc. You'd fill it twice a year with say 2 ABs test matches, and then numerous times over the summer with music concerts. Unless Helen Clark has a Viaduct apartment the potential to host concerts, the Crusty Demons or whoever should be unlimited.

Again the model I bang on about is BC Place where the lower tier is basically on wheels and is moved close to the sidelines for Vancouver Whitecaps MLS games, so to create a more intimate true football feel. Looking at photos they hang huge sheets down from the roof covering the upper tiers, trying to create atmosphere/sound. BC Place hosts like over 200 different events per year, to help make it a successful business model. Vancouver is about the same size as Auckland as a city.

Any new stadium will have to be far more than just a sports stadia to make it viable.

Edit - I doubt the economics would stack up, and there probably isn't enough land space in Auckland's waterfront anyway. But another model is Cardiff, with Cardiff Arms Park (15,000) right next door to the National Millenium Stadium (74,000).

coochiee

If part of the plan is that Eden Park is demolished, any new Waterfront Stadium (basically NZ's National Stadium) will have to have a similar capacity in the 50,000-60,000 range.

That's to give NZ any chance of staging future big events like co hosting a mens Football World Cup (1-2 pools), Rugby World Cup etc etc. You'd fill it twice a year with say 2 ABs test matches, and then numerous times over the summer with music concerts. Again the model I bang on about is BC Place where the lower tier is basically on wheels and is moved close to the sidelines for Vancouver Whitecaps MLS games, so to create a more intimate true football feel. Looking at photos they hang huge sheets down from the roof covering the upper tiers, trying to create atmosphere/sound. BC Place hosts like over 200 different events per year, to help make it a successful business model. Vancouver is about teh same size as city as a city.

Any new stadium will have to be far more than just a sports stadia to make it viable.

Yep BC Place or a smaller Mercedes-Benz Stadium (Atlanta) are the exact types of stadiums that would be best to emulate.

28-30k for the lower bowl imo would be ideal. That covers the amount of a Blues local derby (20k-22k), Warriors this season (20k-25k) and biggest Nix EP crowd (22k) with room to grow the crowds with it being in the city. 

MLS is a great example of the success you can have building football-purposed stadiums. My ideal situation would be to get rid of NHS and EP, and build both a 10,000-15,000 seater football stadium and a BC Place style national stadium with the Blues playing there. Keep Mt Smart as is. Feels like this should be achievable in a city approaching 2mil.

Sadly really cant see the council contributing much in the way of funding. Given the infrastructure failures and the need to up grade. Would imagine there would be an uproar if ratepayers money went to new Stadia before fixing some of that.  

ballane

Sadly really cant see the council contributing much in the way of funding. Given the infrastructure failures and the need to up grade. Would imagine there would be an uproar if ratepayers money went to new Stadia before fixing some of that.  

While I'm sure that the suggestions in the past that a national stadium could be done at no cost to the rate payer must be bs, the handful of consortiums that always propose it show that there must be some significant amount of private capital ready to step in. And maybe the new billionaire in town could help us with the football question...

The stadium question will always come up with some of the wrong answer.

Either we’ll get developers who try to address the issues of the non sporting public as a whole or we’ll get ones trying to ram things through with a more hands off planning regime, probably, ironically with a whole lot of special consents…

I would be very sad to lose Eden Park number 2. Eden Park, as we were reminded recently, is also a swampland by nature and is a flood runoff zone. But I’m not a huge fan of having the theatre at Wynyard Quarter and rather suspect that the Maidment’s issues were large parts convenience and bullshark. 

WTF has happened to North Harbour Rugby? It used to be so strong. I guess Super Rugby and the NPC being the 3 x a week oddity or whatever it is has run it down. They were supposed to be the key tenants for the stadium right?

I guess if we want a waterfront stadium the other option would be to build at the old Carlaw Park spot and wait…

ballane

Sadly really cant see the council contributing much in the way of funding. Given the infrastructure failures and the need to up grade. Would imagine there would be an uproar if ratepayers money went to new Stadia before fixing some of that.  

Well in 2019 Auckland Council loaned Eden Park $63 Million to bail it out. EP faces large future maintenance costs as it ages. So Council may consider some funding into a new Stadium, that will otherwise be privately funded now and on going post completion, not a bad outcome.

I imagine a few of the 8 consortiums will be looking for some sort of model where they get the highly valuable Council land at EP for free to develop for housing, in exchange for funding most/all of the costs of a shiny Waterfront Stadium. On face value seems not a bad idea. Know an Auckland guy that works at AECOM that's been involved as a planning consultant on stadium projects in Melbourne & Sydney. No doubt him and consultancy friends will be well paid by Council as they work through the various different options.

I don’t think Auckland needs a new “national” stadium. Eden Park provides that already. EP really is a good venue, and I say that as someone who regularly visits there since the late 70s. Our problem is that we don’t have the population base and regular sports attendance/events to make a new big stadium viable. The best option might be to reconfigure EP in such a way that allows it to be modified for smaller crowds. That could even be a smaller seated ground at number 2 that seats in the 15000 range, that would suit almost every match except the very biggest of any code.

I also think NHS would suit the new Auckland franchise too. It could be their administration and training base for 95% of the time. EP fir the sold out play off games and (fingers crossed) for the 30,000 that attend the derbies with The Nix.

ballane

Sadly really cant see the council contributing much in the way of funding. Given the infrastructure failures and the need to up grade. Would imagine there would be an uproar if ratepayers money went to new Stadia before fixing some of that.  

Don’t see why you say that. New Plymouth happily spent $70m of ratepayers on a stadium they already had.
And still did nothing to actually make it better.

Anyone remember the proposed Sir Trevor Mallard Stadium on the Auckland waterfront that never took off. He threw his toys out of the cot for several years when that got rejected.

ClubOranje

ballane

Sadly really cant see the council contributing much in the way of funding. Given the infrastructure failures and the need to up grade. Would imagine there would be an uproar if ratepayers money went to new Stadia before fixing some of that.  

Don’t see why you say that. New Plymouth happily spent $70m of ratepayers on a stadium they already had.
And still did nothing to actually make it better.

Don't even get me started on that. 🤬

Stand capacity was slashed from 4,000 to 1,800 and the cost still went up $20 million! 

Who will be the first coach?

Who will be the first signing?

- Steven Taylor for coach - back to back promotions in UAE. Likes NZ, popular figure and has name recognition?
- Des Buckingham - one of the most loved coaches in recent NZ history with a proven track record of developing youth. A League surely better than an Indian one.
- Ryan Nelsen to give it another crack, as the new owners try to get some kiwi legends involved.

- Sapreet Singh  to come back and get regular minutes.
- Winston Reid to come back as a player coach/assistant manager
- Marco Rojas to finally sign for a club.
- Michael Boxall for a final season swansong.

Winston Reid and Ryan Nelsen were reportedly backing the Mitchell bid, but I'm sure that won't matter in the long run

MetalLegNZ

Who will be the first coach?

Who will be the first signing?

- Steven Taylor for coach - back to back promotions in UAE. Likes NZ, popular figure and has name recognition?
- Des Buckingham - one of the most loved coaches in recent NZ history with a proven track record of developing youth. A League surely better than an Indian one.
- Ryan Nelsen to give it another crack, as the new owners try to get some kiwi legends involved.

- Sapreet Singh  to come back and get regular minutes.
- Winston Reid to come back as a player coach/assistant manager
- Marco Rojas to finally sign for a club.
- Michael Boxall for a final season swansong.

All or any of the above. Maybe Callan Elliot to sign as well.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

MetalLegNZ

Who will be the first coach?

Who will be the first signing?

- Steven Taylor for coach - back to back promotions in UAE. Likes NZ, popular figure and has name recognition?
- Des Buckingham - one of the most loved coaches in recent NZ history with a proven track record of developing youth. A League surely better than an Indian one.
- Ryan Nelsen to give it another crack, as the new owners try to get some kiwi legends involved.

- Sapreet Singh  to come back and get regular minutes.
- Winston Reid to come back as a player coach/assistant manager
- Marco Rojas to finally sign for a club.
- Michael Boxall for a final season swansong.

All or any of the above. Maybe Callan Elliot to sign as well.

Do either Steven Taylor, or Ryan Nelsen have the qualifications required to coach in the A-League? (Can't remember what they are, but Des certainly has them.)

MetalLegNZ

Who will be the first coach?

Who will be the first signing?

- Steven Taylor for coach - back to back promotions in UAE. Likes NZ, popular figure and has name recognition?
- Des Buckingham - one of the most loved coaches in recent NZ history with a proven track record of developing youth. A League surely better than an Indian one.
- Ryan Nelsen to give it another crack, as the new owners try to get some kiwi legends involved.

- Sapreet Singh  to come back and get regular minutes.
- Winston Reid to come back as a player coach/assistant manager
- Marco Rojas to finally sign for a club.
- Michael Boxall for a final season swansong.

Would begrudgingly be happy with any those suggestions, except for Sarpreet Singh coming back. 

I still don't think dogfight Germany is the best place for him personally (Netherlands or Belgium would be great!) but it's clear the environments he's been in have made him a better player. Even if the old Hansa Rostock gaffer doesn't give him his opportunities...
 
Whether he'd want to come back is another story entirely as well, but he would most definitely command a pretty penny if he ever considered coming back to this part of the world. 

Yes and maybe to those:

Taylor is a foreign Nix player so I don’t any synergy with him and a new Auckland side.

Des, could undoubtably do the job, but I’m not sure he is high profile enough for a new franchise.

I can see Ryan getting the gig if he fulfils the qualification criteria. I say that because of his (real) legendary NZ status, and his American roots (which might not many anything…).

I really think they will go with someone with way more profile than most coaches in the A League. Base that on 2 things mainly: new owners are super rich and probably prepared to spend big on a coach that has both profile and with a successful coaching resume and the owners already have a football department, as such, and are likely to have someone within their ranks they like the look of.

Players, expecting some ex Prem or an ex MLS star as marquees. Winston might be a shout to play in the first season and The Woodsman perhaps in 2 or 3 years as a swansong. Would love to attract back some of our European guys but many will still fancy their chances in Europe in the short term. Id love Sarpeet to come home but  think he should stay a few more years over there. Ryan Thomas might be a shout for 1 or 2 seasons too if he genuinely thinks he is on borrowed time in Holland.

MetalLegNZ

Who will be the first coach?

Who will be the first signing?

- Steven Taylor for coach - back to back promotions in UAE. Likes NZ, popular figure and has name recognition?
- Des Buckingham - one of the most loved coaches in recent NZ history with a proven track record of developing youth. A League surely better than an Indian one.
- Ryan Nelsen to give it another crack, as the new owners try to get some kiwi legends involved.

- Sapreet Singh  to come back and get regular minutes.
- Winston Reid to come back as a player coach/assistant manager
- Marco Rojas to finally sign for a club.
- Michael Boxall for a final season swansong.

Urrgh need that 'un This' function. Thomas is now more Dutch than Kiwi. He ain't bringing his young family away from their support network in Holland

I don’t know how you can state that with any certainty. Its his job as a pro footballer, thats what got him overseas in the first place. It may very well suit him and family to spend a couple of seasons in NZ with the kids Kiwi whanau.

coochiee

Urrgh need that 'un This' function. Thomas is now more Dutch than Kiwi. He ain't bringing his young family away from their support network in Holland

I think his Brit parents now live back in the UK. Could be wrong. But Thomas has openly said Holland is now his home, and that he doesn't like being away from his family.  

If anyone is offered enough they will move. Zawada almost certainly will move on, dragging his family with him

For the people who can remember how the YF started up, how long do you reckon it will take for some fan representation to get up and running?

Footy_Fella

For the people who can remember how the YF started up, how long do you reckon it will take for some fan representation to get up and running?

I reckon Frankie who lives in Akld now will have the Blue Balls up and running soon.

anaveragestem

If anyone is offered enough they will move. Zawada almost certainly will move on, dragging his family with him

Not the same though. Zawada's wife ain't a Kiwi, nor has he ever stated New Zealand will be his forever home. Plus he has 1 (soon yes 2) pro club options in NZ. Thomas too many to count, if you throw all those in that are a day's drive from Zwolle. He's a homebody who doesn't need to move 20 hours away by plane, to play football on reasonable coin.

Feverish

Footy_Fella

For the people who can remember how the YF started up, how long do you reckon it will take for some fan representation to get up and running?

I reckon Frankie who lives in Akld now will have the Blue Balls up and running soon.

Haha I just feel like the race is on to stop this man going with Black Knights

Footy_Fella

Feverish

Footy_Fella

For the people who can remember how the YF started up, how long do you reckon it will take for some fan representation to get up and running?

I reckon Frankie who lives in Akld now will have the Blue Balls up and running soon.

Haha I just feel like the race is on to stop this man going with Black Knights

Maybe Sport NZ will step in and stop him from using the name. They may need to reserve it for a future national jousting team.

Kinda feels like any team name with clack or white in it is gonna be offensive to someone some where these days. NZ's existing teams can get away with it cos they've had the nick names for so long it they precede the apparent racist connotations. But for a newly created team to carry a Black/white in their name is going to create issues for them, even in NZ and Aussie.
Heck, even using knights as an emblem is going to upset some, crusaders changed their logo to remove the "knight" imagery.

There's context there, "Crusader" knights are specifically ones beating the crap out of Muslims, as opposed to regular knights who just beat the crap out of each other and random peasants

Doloras

There's context there, "Crusader" knights are specifically ones beating the crap out of Muslims, as opposed to regular knights who just beat the crap out of each other and random peasants

oh I agree with you there, but that wont stop others finding offnese.

Surely ‘knights’ can’t be used because it already has been used and was a complete failure. 

We're talking about a guy who donated to Trump twice, he may have a soft spot for complete failures

Doloras

We're talking about a guy who donated to Trump twice, he may have a soft spot for complete failures

yeah, but he has also publically not backed him this time. Maybe he's seen the light and decided twice was one too many?

Seeing the Knights rise again would be awesome. Chill out 

Feverish

Seeing the Knights rise again would be awesome. Chill out 

In the context of Foley's other sporting interests it makes it feel like more of a brand than a club right from the get go

I hope they don't choose a Knights moniker. But the significance will only really matter to football diehards, with a memory stretching back 15 odd years now.

If the new Auckland team have a few glamour visa signings, play attractive football, win more games that they lose, have a strong smart marketing budget, and don't play at NHS, the fans will turn up. The on field 'product' will matter most.

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Silo Park is so painstakingly obvious as a potential site for any future stadium development. 

Best time for this was 2011, and the second-best time is now.

Has anyone seen one of the latest TalkSport videos on Youtube? It is the Simon Jordan, Jim White discussion after the Bournemouth loss to Wolves this week. There is a quick clip from an earlier interview with Foley when he sacked the coach soon after taking over. His comment was interesting - it was something along the lines of they had analysed and decided on a style of play and didn’t think the old coach (now Wolves coach) could provide that for them.

Link is here