General A-League discussion

theprof

Nelfoos

theprof

Nelfoos

LG

There is another idea. Victoria counter the NSW offer with an even bigger offer and see what happens!!

That's exactly what the APL is banking on in 3 years time and hey, maybe it would've happened if they were allowed a chance to make an offer in the first place.

Suggesting there was some colusion with the melbourne clubs and the APL/NSW govt to make this happen? It wouldnt shock me if that was the case.

This league has an unbalance representation, Sydney FC seems to get a massive say in how things are done, the Melbourne teams as well (I know their fans are upset about it but what have their owners said?) Smaller club owners like CCM, Newcastle, WSW are all gonna be ok with it becasue it has minimal impact on them. 

Not at all, Danny Townsend stated that this is a 3 year term and after that it will go to the highest bidder. Victoria wasn't given a chance to put their name in the hat for this one, it was a behind closed doors deal. You'd think Victoria is likely the only other real option to NSW though. Victory and City knew about it by virtue of having club members as APL directors and I'm sure supported it to varying degrees, but not suggesting anything illegal!

The APL CEO is literally ex-CEO of Sydney FC and he did both jobs for a bit. You can't tell me that's a good thing for the league and for it being a level playing field.

Agree with you there, any leadership of the league shold have a degree of separation from the clubs, if at least to avoid suggestions of bias andfunneling money to their mates or own clubs.

The process of how this has come about it pretty suspect, it doesnt shock me that it's gone this way given the connections to Sydney.  I can see why the Melbourne fanbase would be upset at their owners, assuming they agreed with this. I dont see the rationale for being angry at Rob. As Ballane has said, we have no idea what was discussed or how it went down, just a couple of statements which is the only way an organisation can show opposition and explain themselves, Welnix are not like Musk or Trump, spraying virtiol around the socials. They will obviously want to retain some professionalism regardless of how unhappy they are with this.

They can state their unhappiness professionally, and have chosen not to. I can only form my opinion based off what they've said and what they've said hasn't been good enough - at least Tony Sage has said "it is a democracy and I was outvoted". 

If they'd like to explain further I'm more than open to hearing it but right now I think my response is proportionate, especially given it looks as though they're voting in favour of the proposal. If they voted against, why would they not say so like other clubs? I'm happy to draw the obvious conclusion.

See I read the statement from the club as they voted against the decision. Not for it, and they begrudingly understand the position taken.

just read the Coves response to all of this - this kind of action I can totally get behind.

THE COVE - COURSE OF ACTION

The following is a reaction to two simple things:

1. The decision regarding where the Grand Final is played

2. A lack of fan input and care

The decision made by the APL is completely unacceptable. Their affirmative reasons for this decision have been nonsensical. This decision is purely money-based, something they are too cowardly to admit. 

The APL have claimed to be fan-centric, yet they sell out the pinnacle of the competition. Are we, the fans, a stakeholder of the competition or not? If we are, then we have the right to be heard. The way the fans have been treated shows a level of contempt that we are nothing more than an inconvenience to them except when it suits them. Paul Lederer’s statement reads to us as “we don’t give a flying fudge”. It is disgusting. 

Our representation at the APL starts and ends with Sydney FC Chairman Scott Barlow. Barlow and Sydney FC have both remained silent throughout this incident. If you remain silent, you are complicit. You have pushed the Cove’s founding member to the point where he has sent back his membership. 18 years of supporting his club dies now. The failure to be represented is the cause of grief. 

The A-League received $140m from Silver Lake and $200m from Paramount. Was it really worth selling out the biggest fixture on the calendar for $5m? Where has the other money gone except to a third-rate website. If it’s not about the money, then why are you pissing off every single supporter in the league? It makes no sense.

Tonight, Sydney will have a meeting with the APL. Other supporter groups are expected to receive the invitation as well. We will be questioning them on all of the above. 

Our actions as a supporter base are as follows. The Cove: 

As we said last week “If the suits can’t grow our game, we will”. To clarify as to why we won’t be doing a complete boycott of the game this weekend, we believe these are absolutely crucial times to grow the league’s supporters in this post-Socceroos buzz, which is what makes the recent decision so unfortunate. We stand by our post last week to put everything we can into growing the league in the next few weeks, despite the issues the league has put in front of us all. 

We will not be made to feel guilty for not supporting our team this weekend for the first 23 minutes. Our loyalty will not be preyed on. Us not supporting is bad for the team, but so is alienating the fans. 

Forza Australian Football Fans

theprof

See I read the statement from the club as they voted against the decision. Not for it, and they begrudingly understand the position taken.

Personally I took the statement as them having voted for it begrudgingly.

theprof

just read the Coves response to all of this - this kind of action I can totally get behind.

THE COVE - COURSE OF ACTION

The following is a reaction to two simple things:

1. The decision regarding where the Grand Final is played

2. A lack of fan input and care

The decision made by the APL is completely unacceptable. Their affirmative reasons for this decision have been nonsensical. This decision is purely money-based, something they are too cowardly to admit. 

The APL have claimed to be fan-centric, yet they sell out the pinnacle of the competition. Are we, the fans, a stakeholder of the competition or not? If we are, then we have the right to be heard. The way the fans have been treated shows a level of contempt that we are nothing more than an inconvenience to them except when it suits them. Paul Lederer’s statement reads to us as “we don’t give a flying fudge”. It is disgusting. 

Our representation at the APL starts and ends with Sydney FC Chairman Scott Barlow. Barlow and Sydney FC have both remained silent throughout this incident. If you remain silent, you are complicit. You have pushed the Cove’s founding member to the point where he has sent back his membership. 18 years of supporting his club dies now. The failure to be represented is the cause of grief. 

The A-League received $140m from Silver Lake and $200m from Paramount. Was it really worth selling out the biggest fixture on the calendar for $5m? Where has the other money gone except to a third-rate website. If it’s not about the money, then why are you pissing off every single supporter in the league? It makes no sense.

Tonight, Sydney will have a meeting with the APL. Other supporter groups are expected to receive the invitation as well. We will be questioning them on all of the above. 

Our actions as a supporter base are as follows. The Cove: 

1. Will be silent for the first 23 minutes of Central Coast away 

2. Will boycott the entire Final series for the next 3 years should there be no change to this system. We will also actively advocate that all SFC fans do the same

3. Will campaign to all Sydney FC fans to also NOT attend the Grand Final as “general fans” should we not make it for the next 3 years.

As we said last week “If the suits can’t grow our game, we will”. To clarify as to why we won’t be doing a complete boycott of the game this weekend, we believe these are absolutely crucial times to grow the league’s supporters in this post-Socceroos buzz, which is what makes the recent decision so unfortunate. We stand by our post last week to put everything we can into growing the league in the next few weeks, despite the issues the league has put in front of us all. 

We will not be made to feel guilty for not supporting our team this weekend for the first 23 minutes. Our loyalty will not be preyed on. Us not supporting is bad for the team, but so is alienating the fans. 

Forza Australian Football Fans

How is that different to a walkout? Either way the club still gets their money and the atmosphere will still be weird which will make casual attendees question what's going on. Isn't that what you were against? 

theprof

See I read the statement from the club as they voted against the decision. Not for it, and they begrudingly understand the position taken.

I get the complete opposite. Sounds to me like they don't like it, but voted for it for the money.

How individual votes went I think will come out shortly - Ray Gatt reporting final vote was 8-4 and Andrew Voerman is saying Rob didn't even attend the meeting (but that doesn't really tell us if he voted or which way if he did)

theprof

just read the Coves response to all of this - this kind of action I can totally get behind.

THE COVE - COURSE OF ACTION

The following is a reaction to two simple things:

1. The decision regarding where the Grand Final is played

2. A lack of fan input and care

The decision made by the APL is completely unacceptable. Their affirmative reasons for this decision have been nonsensical. This decision is purely money-based, something they are too cowardly to admit. 

The APL have claimed to be fan-centric, yet they sell out the pinnacle of the competition. Are we, the fans, a stakeholder of the competition or not? If we are, then we have the right to be heard. The way the fans have been treated shows a level of contempt that we are nothing more than an inconvenience to them except when it suits them. Paul Lederer’s statement reads to us as “we don’t give a flying fudge”. It is disgusting. 

Our representation at the APL starts and ends with Sydney FC Chairman Scott Barlow. Barlow and Sydney FC have both remained silent throughout this incident. If you remain silent, you are complicit. You have pushed the Cove’s founding member to the point where he has sent back his membership. 18 years of supporting his club dies now. The failure to be represented is the cause of grief. 

The A-League received $140m from Silver Lake and $200m from Paramount. Was it really worth selling out the biggest fixture on the calendar for $5m? Where has the other money gone except to a third-rate website. If it’s not about the money, then why are you pissing off every single supporter in the league? It makes no sense.

Tonight, Sydney will have a meeting with the APL. Other supporter groups are expected to receive the invitation as well. We will be questioning them on all of the above. 

Our actions as a supporter base are as follows. The Cove: 

1. Will be silent for the first 23 minutes of Central Coast away 

2. Will boycott the entire Final series for the next 3 years should there be no change to this system. We will also actively advocate that all SFC fans do the same

3. Will campaign to all Sydney FC fans to also NOT attend the Grand Final as “general fans” should we not make it for the next 3 years.

As we said last week “If the suits can’t grow our game, we will”. To clarify as to why we won’t be doing a complete boycott of the game this weekend, we believe these are absolutely crucial times to grow the league’s supporters in this post-Socceroos buzz, which is what makes the recent decision so unfortunate. We stand by our post last week to put everything we can into growing the league in the next few weeks, despite the issues the league has put in front of us all. 

We will not be made to feel guilty for not supporting our team this weekend for the first 23 minutes. Our loyalty will not be preyed on. Us not supporting is bad for the team, but so is alienating the fans. 

Forza Australian Football Fans

Points 2 & 3 are great but ultimately meaningless for Nix fans.

If you think being silent for 23 minutes that will barely be registered by anyone is a more effective protest than a walk out then I don't know what to tell you. Probably means the Fever won't be walking out though, so I'll make my banner!

the fact that 2 of the three points seem irrelevant to you is why I'm so confused about how upset you seem to be. If a fanbase that this clearly favours isnt walking out why the hell are we?
Silence is the same as walking out, but the players are still supported, which we should be wanting. 
If we encourace others not to attend the final and refuse to attend them ourselves then the deal fails.

theprof

the fact that 2 of the three points seem irrelevant to you is why I'm so confused about how upset you seem to be. If a fanbase that this clearly favours isnt walking out why the hell are we?
Silence is the same as walking out, but the players are still supported, which we should be wanting. 
If we encourace others not to attend the final and refuse to attend them ourselves then the deal fails.

They're irrelevant to me because we probably won't make the final and I won't be able to afford to go even if we did - therefore they're simply not relevant as protest options for Phoenix fans. That doesn't mean that it isn't a big deal and worth protesting - people who only take a stand when they're personally affected is one of the biggest problems we face in creating a more just society.

I will certainly advocate for others not to attend the final but that's about the least useful form of protest available to me, other than twitter and forum rants.

Silence is easily ignored, walk outs are not, the history of the A-League itself proves this. One protest option might have an effect, the other will be glossed over as if it had never happened.

Have the Fever stated anywhere that a walk out is the official policy? I'm not a part of any decision making group - the most effective protest will be the one advocated for by the leadership so even if I disagree with the consensus approach, I'll go along with it.

unsure what the official YF action is, I assume walk out is what they'll do. 

theprof

unsure what the official YF action is, I asusme walk out is what they'll do. 

 I'm not so sure about that to be honest. I'd like them to let us know ASAP though.

Why would they be "rightfully" mad at us? If the purpose of the protest is to show what a lack of home active support is like, then most of the Nix home matches over the past couple of years have already demonstrated that (eg last weekend).

Monto

If we don't walk out I think all supporter groups who do this weekend can rightfully be mad at us.

Defending the league no matter what shark decision they make is a good way to end up with no real league at all.

We want crowds to show up? Well if the league gets sold out to be an over commercialized mess then what proper football fan would take it seriously anyway? Football has its traditions and trying to turn it into American sport isn't the way to keep fans on side.

It seems this decision has rightfully fudgeed off pretty much every die hard supporter around, they are the life blood of the league without them it doesn't exist. Not a great way to rebuild the league to its former glory.

Confirmation that Rob Morrison voted in favour of the deal.

Looking forward to this weekends protests, whatever form they take.

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(Apologies if that photo is posted multiple times, phone and website weren’t working together well…kinda like the apl and fans 😅)

No fans City voted for. This is their dream league. Games without fans, still getting money. 

Us and Brisbane could have scuttled it by changing votes. 

This is our essential problem. We have some clubs with halfway heritage and others that are fake astroturfed behemoths who wouldn’t consider asking fans. It’s a product/consumption model like with sneakers or phones. Then they talk about starting a tradition. That’s rarely a top down thing if it’s going to stick…

Just a question for those in the know do the EPL, Spain  LaLiga, Bundesliga SerieA,and other European leagues consult with the fans before making decisions about how best to move the game forward.

Nelfoos

Confirmation that Rob Morrison voted in favour of the deal.

Looking forward to this weekends protests, whatever form they take.

Certainly hope people arnt planning on abusing the person that is largely responsible  for us still being around. Because NOTHING will justify that no matter how bitter and twisted people are over whats going on..

ballane

Just a question for those in the know do the EPL, Spain  LaLiga, Bundesliga SerieA,and other European leagues consult with the fans before making decisions about how best to move the game forward.

All I know is that the Bundesliga have the 50+1 rule where teams must be primarily fan-owned, Bayern and Dortmund IIRC, so they have the last vote. Copa90 have a great video on it.

kwlap

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so in the vote that was taken after the announcement we voted for. I wonder what was offered to sweeten the pot?

Statement from CCM Chairman Richard Peil. pic.twitter.com/6udgA6hhg6

— Luke (@Boycey1105) December 14, 2022

There is information in here about what the choice the chairs had when the deal had already been signed off. Think it helps a lot with context.

Just to let you know we should have a statement coming out later today. There's been a few things to work through, including the presence of away fans at our games and the fact it's a double header. And we've been busy with normal life/work stuff so it's taken a bit longer than we hoped.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/300765599/aleague-set-for-tense-owners-meeting-over-controversial-grand-final-plan
owners meeting today....

Shark i never realised it was worth that much thats a big amount to be found if its canned. Guessing fans just expecting owners to continue donating so they can have a team. 

ballane

Nelfoos

Confirmation that Rob Morrison voted in favour of the deal.

Looking forward to this weekends protests, whatever form they take.

Certainly hope people arnt planning on abusing the person that is largely responsible  for us still being around. Because NOTHING will justify that no matter how bitter and twisted people are over whats going on..

Nah all abuse should be directed at Danny Townsend and the APL board for creating this mess in the first place.

Interesting that the figure has suddenly increased $8m in the last few days

where was that reported? not on Stuff, they say $20m NZD.

theprof

where was that reported? not on Stuff, they say $20m NZD.

$12m has been the figure I've seen in all discussions but I couldn't verify the source. If it was out by almost 50% then I'd have expected the APL to clear it up.

 Statement 
Yellow Fever stand united with fan groups and players across the league in offering the strongest possible criticism of the decision announced this week to sell the pinnacle event of the season to Sydney.

We understand the financial pressures placed on the league and the clubs involved, but removing the ultimate incentive for all teams of earning the right to a Grand Final hosted in their own stadium is not an acceptable trade-off to make. It undermines and devalues the league, and hurts not only the fans but the players themselves - a view the player base has widely expressed on social media and through the PFA statement released on Wednesday night.

No one wants to see the game robbed of the colour and noise active fans bring, but we feel taking no action would be unacceptable.

As a result, Yellow Fever will this weekend show unity with other fan groups in clear terms. We have consulted the travelling Adelaide supporters and decided on the following action - at the 20th minute we will leave our usual home in the Fever Zone and relocate to sit with the travelling members of the Red Army in Aisle 13, away from the cameras. We plan to remain there for the following women’s game. This will leave the usual home and away bays devoid of the fans the APL are looking to exclude with its decision.

We are football fans first and foremost, so we will watch the remainder of the double header, but will do so seated alongside our whānau from Adelaide. We will be united in our disappointment that once again we see football bureaucracy in Australia and New Zealand forgetting what makes it unique and undervaluing the biggest asset it has for future growth. 

To all supporters attending the Phoenix double-header this weekend: we invite you to join us, no matter how long you have been a fan, or where your usual seat might be. We also understand not all of you will feel as strongly as us and nor do we expect you to, so please do not feel bad if you do not wish to move from your usual seat to join us in Aisle 13.

We are also advocating for Chairman Morrison to talk directly with fans regarding his involvement in this decision-making process, and for the club to push for governance reform to ensure clubs, players and fans are taken into consideration when making decisions for the future of the game in New Zealand and Australia. 

We will be moving to Aisle 13/14, because Aisle 10 will be closed. A piss up in 12 Pubs across Wellington we can manage, but organising a protest is beyond us.

Interesting listening to the CCM fan podcast with their CEO and he said that the statement put out on Tuesday night that was 'signed' by all the chairs was not meant to go out as not all owners agreed. Guess that is why the second version only had the WSW guy on it.
Rob has said he wasn't at that meeting. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130770310/wellington-phoenix-supporters-to-protest-against-controversial-aleague-decision

Nelfoos

theprof

where was that reported? not on Stuff, they say $20m NZD.

$12m has been the figure I've seen in all discussions but I couldn't verify the source. If it was out by almost 50% then I'd have expected the APL to clear it up.

I maybe to blame for the $12M figure, as I used it as an example of an easily divisible amount with the 12 clubs and the media quoting a 8 figure sum.

But rather than $1M per club for the 3 years, looking at more like $1.5M.
A tidy sum. Nix would likely need a home semi, plus final to match that as a wild guess.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/300765599/aleague-set-for-tense-owners-meeting-over-controversial-grand-final-plan

It comes as the competition faces up to a brutal financial reality brought on since the start of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Clubs as a collective are believed to have lost approximately A$120 million (NZ$127.6 million) in that time.

I appreciate that midway through 12 Pubs means many of those at the game are steamed, and it's easy for me to say this watching the game from my bedroom and not being involved in any of the organising, but the Sky Sport cameras and mics are picking up plenty of Yellow Fever standing and singing.  It's not coming across as a protest unfortunately and I can't imagine it's sent any message to the Phoenix ownership or APL.  If I was a fan of another A-League club I would not get the impression that Yellow Fever are in solidarity with the other protests planned around the league this weekend.  

wah wah wah, cry me a river, the YF did exactly what the other fans did, Piney commentated on it and the banners left behind were pretty clear. The APL lot wont be watching the games they will have read the statements though. the message has been loud and clear.

Not sure why you need a message to be sent to the Nix owners, this has been done to them as much as us! 

And now we've got camera shots of shirts off.  I'm sorry but it just does not send a message that the Phoenix fanbase are angry at the decision or willing to strongly show displeasure with it.   

the YF don't control the tv cameras.
the message to the APL was pretty clear, the walk out followed the statement, "football is for the fans". The fans them showed what the final will be missing when the fans dont show for the finals.

theprof

wah wah wah, cry me a river, the YF did exactly what the other fans did, Piney commentated on it and the banners left behind were pretty clear. The APL lot wont be watching the games they will have read the statements though. the message has been loud and clear.

Not sure why you need a message to be sent to the Nix owners, this has been done to them as much as us! 

Yeah yeah we know, getting out of a chair to protest is very hard.