Ufuk Talay - Ufuked off to Sydney FC

Showtime Nixie

I think we all can appreciate the efforts through covid times - but lets not live in the past. What's this years excuse? Please tell me.

I think the above says it all really - we don't really demand success. Happy to see it out and see what happens. Sorry but some fans have higher standards and expectations - they're not all on this forum btw. 

this years excuse, ummmm how about recovering from the financial hit that the kast 2-3 years delivered. Just because we are playing home and away now doesnt make the last 2 seasons costs go away, or the impacts on the squad etc. 
We all want to win, but I think most of us here temper that with some understanding of the situation we are in and how it is important to have the club in existance over spending large money on 1 success. 
The other fans who aren't on here (I assume you mean the faceboook community, or some of them) are probably not even going to games, cos if they all did we'd be packing the stadium week in week out and be in a totally different financial postion than we are.

I'm interested in the argument that if we preferred NZ players then the team would gain more support.

But also in the argument that it's wrong to "blame the players or the coach" for the fact that we lose most of the time. Who would you suggest we blame?

Doloras

I'm interested in the argument that if we preferred NZ players then the team would gain more support.

But also in the argument that it's wrong to "blame the players or the coach" for the fact that we lose most of the time. Who would you suggest we blame?

none of us are suggesing the players or coach are blameless for the losses, its the calling for the coach to be sacked or suggesting it's just his fault or an individual player's fault that is the issue. 

at 99% of clubs around the world the coach is responsible for results and the top coaches put their hand up to it more often than not.

Definitely think kiwis connect to kiwi players a lot more - seeing your own out their gives a sense of proudness and excitement. A lot of my mates who have now given up..definitely invested in the side when Ricki was in charge. I think the nz footballing community engages more when they see local lads in their sides. Take the Breakers for example...fan engagement went awol for a few years now they've gone back to playing more locals and selling out stadiums.

Anyway despite the stats and facts i will leave the coach chat for now - seems on this thread any difference in opinion or demand for better from staff is seen as trolling or anti fenix.  You have to be invested a certain way. 

It's crazy, Zawada scores the easy chance from the Glover drop and Kraev doesn't commit a nonsensical foul (Tilio was back to goal towards the corner of the box) and we win and around 4th place in the league and everyone's happy. 

I still think the process is good, though unfortunately I don't think this our strongest 1st XI under Uffie. 

I think the reason you don't see Ufuk sacked is simply because there are sensible people in charge of his contract. If it was up to some fans here we'd have a new coach every 6 months because we lost 3 games in a row. No decent team can possibly hope to win with an ethos of turning on your coach in the short term. Even Sydney FC who demand far greater success still have Corica (who everyone seems to know by now is a dead duck) because jumping into rash decisions is what kills clubs. 

Talking about stability, we haven't had any of that for the past 3 years due to covid. Now some of the people on here want to put us into another period of instability by completely changing the team and coach plus going scorched earth on the coaching staff. You sound like you've lost the plot when you say stuff like that.

God forbid if the team was run by you showtime Nixie we might as well rename the team to the NZ knights and then disband the team the following year.

Bullion

It's crazy, Zawada scores the easy chance from the Glover drop and Kraev doesn't commit a nonsensical foul (Tilio was back to goal towards the corner of the box) and we win and around 4th place in the league and everyone's happy. 

I still think the process is good, though unfortunately I don't think this our strongest 1st XI under Uffie. 

I saw it the same way. We were pretty close. The big difference for me was they were bigger. Taller/stronger defending in the box (hence our weakness getting any return on all the corners) and pretty physical in general play, particularly when they upped their press on us in the second half. That hurried us and reduced our fluency a lot. They're a good defensive side as well as good scorers. 

We lost, but I enjoyed the game because City are a quality side to watch and we had our chances and were definitely competitive. 
We were creative and skilled enough to create a heap of chances. I guess the other big difference is they had the quality to take theirs. 

Interested in you saying this isn't Ufuk's best side. None of them have been perfect. This one just missing the smash and grab capability of Sotirio and Piscopo? 

Bullion

It's crazy, Zawada scores the easy chance from the Glover drop and Kraev doesn't commit a nonsensical foul (Tilio was back to goal towards the corner of the box) and we win and around 4th place in the league and everyone's happy. 

I still think the process is good, though unfortunately I don't think this our strongest 1st XI under Uffie. 

Or Zawada scores open look 1 or two or three or four or….

But that’s who he is. Our most clinical players are now imo Kosta and Kraev. We have to get chances to them. Kosta had one shot that hit the woodwork and almost created tap ins twice where the run wasn’t made iirc. Kraev hit one tame shot at the keeper from distance. If we get Kosta or Kraev on 6-8 chances imo we score 2-5 goals. 

Ball and Zawada are great but not clinical. 

It’s a pity Sutton was not playing as he is another player who can really thump the ball goalward. 

Pen was soft, but silly from one of our most experienced who has played Tilio 3 times now. 

We can’t build a team around Zawada scoring a hatful every game. He will get some, but he’s not our most clinical imo. Especially when it’s a cross to him v. two defenders. 

Waine was a real loss and without Sutton and Old too we are very weak.   We lack variety in attack and goal scorers. 

Uffie should be doing better than this . If his final results are the same as the current position I’d have to agree he needs to answer plenty of questions. 

Hamish Watson could do a half season job if he’s fit and had already sent in his CV…but not really a like for like replacement with Waine. But he is an experienced goal scorer. Van Hattum at least got one on target last game. I don’t want to blood young players who weren’t good enough at the start of the season and say they’re going to win us the league. 

In that last game Piscopo > Sasse and Sotirio is greater than…

Well Sotirio is better than our bench and a player who won’t lose without dying trying to win. He had an exceptional year last year playing on the counter. Kosta and Ball should be better than him, but his direct and powerful play often proved effective. 

Is Sotirio better than Old? That’s hard to say tbh. Reckon if Old had been available to start we’d have won that one. 

Agree re Kosta wanting players to read his runs and where he's going to play it. Same for Sasse. He played several balls into good space and no-one anticipated with the run.

Being optimistic, if these guys can keep their heads up and show intensity and determination, then there's more to come. 

mjp2

Bullion

It's crazy, Zawada scores the easy chance from the Glover drop and Kraev doesn't commit a nonsensical foul (Tilio was back to goal towards the corner of the box) and we win and around 4th place in the league and everyone's happy. 

I still think the process is good, though unfortunately I don't think this our strongest 1st XI under Uffie. 

I saw it the same way. We were pretty close. The big difference for me was they were bigger. Taller/stronger defending in the box (hence our weakness getting any return on all the corners) and pretty physical in general play, particularly when they upped their press on us in the second half. That hurried us and reduced our fluency a lot. They're a good defensive side as well as good scorers. 

We lost, but I enjoyed the game because City are a quality side to watch and we had our chances and were definitely competitive. 
We were creative and skilled enough to create a heap of chances. I guess the other big difference is they had the quality to take theirs. 

Interested in you saying this isn't Ufuk's best side. None of them have been perfect. This one just missing the smash and grab capability of Sotirio and Piscopo? 

UIffie's best side I reckon was 2019/20 with imports - Taylor, Hooper, Ball, Steinman & Uffie. Also had Libby, Devlin & Piscopo. Team sheet from 3-0 win over VUC (March 2020 - just prior the virus gripping the world)
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2020/03/15/australia/a-league/wellington-phoenix/melbourne-victory-fc/3129382/

Hard to believe with 2 ex EPL guys in there, that this season's assembled squad is supposedly more expensive. Davila must have been signed cheap at the time.

In the last 5 games pre that season before being suspended with Covid - they beat Melb City (H), Western U (H), CCM (A) & Melb Victory (H). Amongst that was also a loss at champions SFC (1-1 until 88th min).

Pre Covid the Nix were an in form team, with a top 2 finish (they were 3rd at the time) and a home semi a chance. SFC were 1st & Melb City 2nd

Showtime Nixie

at 99% of clubs around the world the coach is responsible for results and the top coaches put their hand up to it more often than not.

Definitely think kiwis connect to kiwi players a lot more - seeing your own out their gives a sense of proudness and excitement. A lot of my mates who have now given up..definitely invested in the side when Ricki was in charge. I think the nz footballing community engages more when they see local lads in their sides. Take the Breakers for example...fan engagement went awol for a few years now they've gone back to playing more locals and selling out stadiums.

Anyway despite the stats and facts i will leave the coach chat for now - seems on this thread any difference in opinion or demand for better from staff is seen as trolling or anti fenix.  You have to be invested a certain way. 

Great point about Ricki and using Kiwis to get better crowd engagement. 

At least, it might have been if Ricki had more Kiwis.

Rough look at contracted players, some who may have been short term, but usually foreign for short term. (Included Waine in this year)

Year-squad-nzl-aus-visa

Uffie has:

mmxxii-xxi-xii-v-iv

mmxxi-xxiii-xi-viii-iv

mmxx-xxiii-xi-viii-iv

mmxix-xxii-x-vii-v

Herbert:

mmxii-xxvii-xii-viii-vii. *

mmxi-xxi-iv-viii-vii 

mmx-xxv-ix -x-vii

mmix-xxiii-viii-vii-viii

mmviii-xxv-xii-x-iii

mmvii-xxiv-xi-ix-iv

* In mmxxii Herbert had iii kiwi  and i Aus GK throughout the season so typically only i of those four played each week.
** figures include contracted scholarships but not un-contracted who are typically Kiwi and rarely get off the bench

In summary, Uffie has a higher % Kiwi contingent year on year, and significantly more that Ricki’s middle years.

Maybe you should invite your mates to come back and support the Kiwi contingent.

Apologies for Roman numerals. Forum strips numbers after 4

True.
Cacace, Hooper, Ulises, Piscopo, Ball. Loved Hooper. A sort of lesser version of Messi; walk around until the time to do special things. But not quite walk around and not quite Messi. 
+ Devlin, Steinman, with both Devere and Taylor at the back.
And Rufer, Sotirio and Wayne off the bench. 
Pretty strong spine there plus Payne on the other side from Cacace, allowing a back three, and Marinovic at the back. 

Damn covid. 

Showtime Nixie

at 99% of clubs around the world the coach is responsible for results and the top coaches put their hand up to it more often than not.

Definitely think kiwis connect to kiwi players a lot more - seeing your own out their gives a sense of proudness and excitement. A lot of my mates who have now given up..definitely invested in the side when Ricki was in charge. I think the nz footballing community engages more when they see local lads in their sides. Take the Breakers for example...fan engagement went awol for a few years now they've gone back to playing more locals and selling out stadiums.

Anyway despite the stats and facts i will leave the coach chat for now - seems on this thread any difference in opinion or demand for better from staff is seen as trolling or anti fenix.  You have to be invested a certain way. 

From a neutral observing this thread passively I don't see what you see in your post in regards to not being allowed a difference of opinion.

People are challenging your views which would be that difference of opinion you are calling for.  You're allowed your views, people have different ones.

In regards to expecting more, of course we want more, we have been wanting more for a very long time.  A lot of us see great potential in the team and are just waiting for it to click.  We haven't had as much benefit of the teams building over seasons because we keep losing players between seasons which kills our momentum.  If we keep this team then I would expect next season we should be very strong.  I even have high hopes for this season  if it clicks soon.

My personal feeling is some of your posts come off as far too negative and not constructive.  Some are defo loaded with stats and whatnot but it's always framed as it's time to sack the coach which is overly negative.

Don't get me wrong.  Post your negative views.  Personally when I'm frustrated a post can be cathartic.  Just if others have different views then expect them to respond.  I'm wrong all the time and I appreciate being told otherwise at times.

But don't be mad at fans who are still optimistic and don't see value in the coach being sacked so soon.  If we sack him we need someone better lined up and I'm not aware of one.  Keeping in mind it's not just a factor of if someone is available, but also if they want to move to NZ and other factor's.

Personally I still have faith in Uffie and hope we have him for a while.

Remember we are all fans and love this team so treat everyone how you want to be treated :)

COYN!

coochiee

mjp2

Bullion

It's crazy, Zawada scores the easy chance from the Glover drop and Kraev doesn't commit a nonsensical foul (Tilio was back to goal towards the corner of the box) and we win and around 4th place in the league and everyone's happy. 

I still think the process is good, though unfortunately I don't think this our strongest 1st XI under Uffie. 

I saw it the same way. We were pretty close. The big difference for me was they were bigger. Taller/stronger defending in the box (hence our weakness getting any return on all the corners) and pretty physical in general play, particularly when they upped their press on us in the second half. That hurried us and reduced our fluency a lot. They're a good defensive side as well as good scorers. 

We lost, but I enjoyed the game because City are a quality side to watch and we had our chances and were definitely competitive. 
We were creative and skilled enough to create a heap of chances. I guess the other big difference is they had the quality to take theirs. 

Interested in you saying this isn't Ufuk's best side. None of them have been perfect. This one just missing the smash and grab capability of Sotirio and Piscopo? 

UIffie's best side I reckon was 2019/20 with imports - Taylor, Hooper, Ball, Steinman & Uffie. Also had Libby, Devlin & Piscopo. Team sheet from 3-0 win over VUC (March 2020 - just prior the virus gripping the world)
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2020/03/15/australia/a-league/wellington-phoenix/melbourne-victory-fc/3129382/

Hard to believe with 2 ex EPL guys in there, that this season's assembled squad is supposedly more expensive. Davila must have been signed cheap at the time.

In the last 5 games pre that season before being suspended with Covid - they beat Melb City (H), Western U (H), CCM (A) & Melb Victory (H). Amongst that was also a loss at champions SFC (1-1 until 88th min).

Pre Covid the Nix were an in form team, with a top 2 finish (they were 3rd at the time) and a home semi a chance. SFC were 1st & Melb City 2nd

Yeah, that team was the best McCowatt was decent as well, the defence was the best we've had

And as for the criticism of Sasse (or Sandoval last season), getting your 4-5 import visa players spot on - requires big amount of luck. You can watch hours of videos, speak to dozens of referrals but you can still get it wrong. All the while trying to get them to fit into your game plan, city and not get injured - or sent off  in their first game.

Davila came to the Nix with a pretty average CV. But after a shaky start, he turned out to be a brilliant pickup really, by Talay & Gill. You'd be nuts to criticise Uffie on his overall record with Visa selections. He's been one of the best, if not the best (considering Nix's mid range ALM club budget) in getting it right in the ALM, since he arrived in Welly. And who knows Sasse may yet shine, but you need a large slice of good fortune to find another Uli in all the options out there.

IIRC people were saying Davilla was a dud before he started scoring and going bananas with assists and plays.

Though this could very well be an example of me being wrong but for some reason that rings a bell.

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2023/1/4/getting-amongst-the-tale-of-ben-waines-transfer-to-plymouth-argyle

Finally, gotta serve up a word of admiration for the Wellington Phoenix production line. They’ve always been decent at bringing through a few first teamers and some USA college scholarship folks. But these days, especially under Ufuk Talay who has shown a willingness to trust the youngsters in his first team, they’re moving in overdrive. Last season twelve academy players got A-League minutes for the Nix along with three more who made matchday squads. And that wasn’t merely for the vibes. Guys like Waine, Sam Sutton, Ben Old, Callan Elliot, and Finn Surman have all been valuable contributors. Hence there’s no reason to think they’ll sign a local replacement for Ben Waine – Uffie will simply boost the status of guys like Oskar van Hattum and Noah Karunaratne instead.

Apart from City, no team has been consistent in terms of results and performance. It's not just us, every team has been struggling.

nice to read some positive stuff about the nix and their systems.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/130897016/quiet-achiever-callan-elliot-feeling-right-at-home-this-wellington-phoenix-season

Des Buckingham has signed a 2-year extension at Mumbai City. That would most likely rule him out of the All-Whites job.

NZPhoenixFan

Des Buckingham has signed a 2-year extension at Mumbai City. That would most likely rule him out of the All-Whites job.

You'd think that now makes Uffie favourite for the AW's job.

Ranix

NZPhoenixFan

Des Buckingham has signed a 2-year extension at Mumbai City. That would most likely rule him out of the All-Whites job.

You'd think that now makes Uffie favourite for the AW's job.

Oh God I hope not. I love what he's done for the Nix but I really have my doubts about him as a national team coach. 

Mind you, what are the other alternatives with des out? Damn, I would've liked to see Hay have another stint tbh.

Hay seemed to have the support of the players which goes a long way.

Very frustrating that they had the fallout.

UFUK Talay - worst defensive coach in the A-league last season conceding 49 goals!! This season second worse with 18 to date heading in same direction and hasn't achieved a clean sheet in 10 games so far this season. If you think this is up to International (all whites) standards then that's scary. Now before theprof says this is an attack on Talay its not....its straight fact. And any coach with that record would get the same doubt over credentials from me.

Can't win games of football and he struggles to coach defensively.

I hope he and we win tonight but it won't have me suddenly thinking he's gods gift on a good result for a change.

We have to beat Sydney they are as poor as us at defensive end - we are capable of scoring a goal or two more than them too. I'll be gutted if we don't win this one. 

FFS go somewhere else with your constant negative moaning gets friggen boring. If your plan is to turn people off the forum its working. We have had some moaners over the years but doubt anyone who is so dam negative all the time. 

Showtime Nixie

UFUK Talay - worst defensive coach in the A-league last season conceding 49 goals!! This season second worse with 18 to date heading in same direction and hasn't achieved a clean sheet in 10 games so far this season. If you think this is up to International (all whites) standards then that's scary. Now before theprof says this is an attack on Talay its not....its straight fact. And any coach with that record would get the same doubt over credentials from me.

Can't win games of football and he struggles to coach defensively.

I hope he and we win tonight but it won't have me suddenly thinking he's gods gift on a good result for a change.

We have to beat Sydney they are as poor as us at defensive end - we are capable of scoring a goal or two more than them too. I'll be gutted if we don't win this one. 

Honestly man maybe go support Manchester City. I feel like your life (and ours) will be better off for it. You clearly don't have the patience to support a low budget team in an ultra competitive league. 

Want my club to win games of football. simple as that. 

So to be on your clubs forum you have to hold a certain opinion? sorry couldn't read that anywhere in the small print, i apologise. 

Showtime Nixie

Want my club to win games of football. simple as that. 

So to be on your clubs forum you have to hold a certain opinion? sorry couldn't read that anywhere in the small print, i apologise. 

Moan all you want, but stop clogging up multiple threads with your rhetoric bro. We get it, you don’t like Uffie and want to win more, fat lot of help crying about it is gonna do.

Yeah we get it =, you want to win more and seem to think the rest of us dont care, we do, but we balance that hope, desire, dream with facts. Sre we had the worst defence last year, but look at why? we had COVID,we had i a run of injuries that meant players were out of position, we had our youth filling spots for 1st teamers. So much happened last year that was out of the manager's/club's control.

This year is slightly different but whilst we have conceded a lot we also lead the league in goals scored. If your gonna quote stats dont just cherry picj the ones that appear to support your arguement. As you've seen, when you do that we all have access to the stats and will quote the ones that counter your POV.

"If your gonna quote stats dont just cherry picj the ones that appear to support your arguement."  - bizarre. Get taught at a very young age to always support your arguments/point of view and not to just have an opinion or throw out statement. Gees tough crowd you lot.

But that's my point, can't be scoring all these goals and leaking like a sieve - its a waste and overly frustrating. We can score as many as we want but you are not going to win the league with one of the worst defensive records in the competition....may make top 6 like we did last season.

Give an arm and a leg for a clean sheet and a win today.

But again if you read different threads you will find I'm not the only one with opinions that are different to what you want to hear. God forbid someone has a difference in opinion or wants to respond to someone's post/response and have a conversation - some get upset but others will find it healthy and interesting...surely. Not sure what been more flat in the last few months the forum or the results!

theprof

Yeah we get it =, you want to win more and seem to think the rest of us dont care, we do, but we balance that hope, desire, dream with facts. Sre we had the worst defence last year, but look at why? we had COVID,we had i a run of injuries that meant players were out of position, we had our youth filling spots for 1st teamers. So much happened last year that was out of the manager's/club's control.

This year is slightly different but whilst we have conceded a lot we also lead the league in goals scored. If your gonna quote stats dont just cherry picj the ones that appear to support your arguement. As you've seen, when you do that we all have access to the stats and will quote the ones that counter your POV.

you mean the multiple posts you've made in the 3 other threads you post in? Which as has been noted by others, say the same thing ad nauseum? Your opinion is just that, an opinion which you hold. You've provided some stats to support your belief, which is fine; you then draw a line from we concede too many goals, don't win to sack the coach, which is knee jerk at best. I've simply provided the other side, you know the more rounded facts, sure e've only won twice, but only lost 3, we've drawn 5 which against some opposition is as good as a win, there have been a few draws that most would have prferred we'd won and I'm sure Talay and co feel the same - sometimes the game does that no matter how much planning/training or whatever you put in.
You've made your point, you dont like Talay, you think under his guidance we've gone nowhere etc etc, theres no point in repeating said opinion, we've all read it and responded some agre, plenty dot and have provided reasaons why we dont. Your hijacking threads with this and in general making these conversations overly negative and repetitave.

Showtime Nixie

"If your gonna quote stats dont just cherry picj the ones that appear to support your arguement."  - bizarre. Get taught at a very young age to always support your arguments/point of view and not to just have an opinion or throw out statement. Gees tough crowd you lot.

But that's my point, can't be scoring all these goals and leaking like a sieve - its a waste and overly frustrating. We can score as many as we want but you are not going to win the league with one of the worst defensive records in the competition....may make top 6 like we did last season.

Give an arm and a leg for a clean sheet and a win today.

But again if you read different threads you will find I'm not the only one with opinions that are different to what you want to hear. God forbid someone has a difference in opinion or wants to respond to someone's post/response and have a conversation - some get upset but others will find it healthy and interesting...surely. Not sure what been more flat in the last few months the forum or the results!

theprof

Yeah we get it =, you want to win more and seem to think the rest of us dont care, we do, but we balance that hope, desire, dream with facts. Sre we had the worst defence last year, but look at why? we had COVID,we had i a run of injuries that meant players were out of position, we had our youth filling spots for 1st teamers. So much happened last year that was out of the manager's/club's control.

This year is slightly different but whilst we have conceded a lot we also lead the league in goals scored. If your gonna quote stats dont just cherry picj the ones that appear to support your arguement. As you've seen, when you do that we all have access to the stats and will quote the ones that counter your POV.

Dude.  To your first point about being taught at a young age to use stats to make your point you are responding to someone saying to not cherry pick which you find bizarre.

Cherry picking is a terrible way to make an argument and is either dishonest or disingenuous.  You can make almost any point in the world cherry picking but that doesn't make a point valid.

Take for example what you're whinging about.  Our atrocious defensive record.  If that makes the point that we should sack the coach, then surely you would accept that with the fantastic attacking record we should be giving him a perm role?

Or what is more likely is when you mash all the stats together you would see a balanced team with some serious issues to work on (like every team tbf).

And please stop the whining about other members calling you out as if there is some rule about having different views.  I made the point before which you clearly missed that you can have different views and at times you make good points but people pulling you up us how a forum that allows different views works.  And you are just being overly negative which is irritating.

Forum members have been whining about our shark defense all season including myself.  We agree with you for the most part.

Your perpetual being the victim shark and the constant negativity is boring as fudge.  It's not interesting healthy debate, it's just boring negativity.  If you want interesting healthy debate you wouldn't criticise someone's suggestion you don't cherry pick.

I miss the Pennington and Lasogga chat.

Friar Tuck

I miss the Pennington and Lasogga chat.

I mean the window is open, Lasogga could be our next strike weapon.

Sign him.

Sydney FC fans wanting Uffie back next season LOL!

NZPhoenixFan

Sydney FC fans wanting Uffie back next season LOL!

Talay doesn't get the AWs job, and good chance he will coach SFC next season.

Corica is a dead man walking, and they could just appoint an interim until season end.

Friar Tuck

I miss the Pennington and Lasogga chat.

I miss KungFu Panda. We need some pro Pennington chat to balance things out.

NZPhoenixFan

Sydney FC fans wanting Uffie back next season LOL!

I thought that definitely was something bubbling away underneath. Corica not being able to buy a win losing to Uffie, former SFC assistant, with the most help a club has had from the officials. 

Ninja

Friar Tuck

I miss the Pennington and Lasogga chat.

I miss KungFu Panda. We need some pro Pennington chat to balance things out.

Would be an interesting read after last night's game