The council's plans for Wynyard Point seem to put the Wynyard Quarter stadium idea to bed. Makes you wonder what the stadium plan was that was hinted at in the brief Ali Williams/Mowbray episode.
I know the mayor said they should/will sell NHS but they need some sort of stadium on the shore. I can’t see them getting rid of itpickledmyself
Looking likely that Council will look to sell off North Harbour stadium and build a 10k seater at Mt Smart, possibly on the athletics arena
Demolishing the stadium and selling the land would be the most short sired thing they could possibly do. 10 years from now they’ll be screaming for a local stadium and there will be no land do it will need to be even further out and everyone will complain it’s too far away and too hard to get to with no transport links.
10 years from now none of the current council will be around to have to deal with their decision though. Council needs money now, so that's where decisions will be focussed rather than any long term impacts.
The precinct there is much more than the stadium too, there are offices, turf, rugby clubhouse, and from memory a cricket oval.ClubOranje
Napier Phoenix
I know the mayor said they should/will sell NHS but they need some sort of stadium on the shore. I can’t see them getting rid of itpickledmyself
Looking likely that Council will look to sell off North Harbour stadium and build a 10k seater at Mt Smart, possibly on the athletics arena
Demolishing the stadium and selling the land would be the most short sired thing they could possibly do. 10 years from now they’ll be screaming for a local stadium and there will be no land do it will need to be even further out and everyone will complain it’s too far away and too hard to get to with no transport links.
I'm no fan of NHS as a major events stadium, but it would be ridiculous to sell off the whole sporting complex, which includes all the things NP says plus an aquatic complex. The cricket oval is also Auckland's best AFL ground, not that anyone cares lol. The alternative for a major events stadium would be to redevelop Onewa Domain.
I should also note that Wayne Brown is a total loose cannon who says whatever comes into his head without running it past Council, on which he only has 1 vote. I'm not going to take any proposal seriously unless it comes out of the actual Council stadiums working group.
The council's plans for Wynyard Point seem to put the Wynyard Quarter stadium idea to bed. Makes you wonder what the stadium plan was that was hinted at in the brief Ali Williams/Mowbray episode.
Think they hinted at Bledisloe Wharf, just a bit east. Not as big a fan of this idea as the area surrounding (esp up Beach Rd) is pretty dingy, certainly not somewhere I'd feel entirely safe walking alone on game night with kids.
The niceties of the waterfront end at Bledisloe Wharf/the Countdown, imo. You'd hope that the space between Spark Arena and Britomart is cleaned up a lot as part of any potential waterfront development image.png2.55 MB
Wayne Brown plays up a loose cannon image, but will be listening to a group of people with an overall plan. For example you wouldn’t say Desley Simpson is a loose cannon, but she votes with the mayor on most or all issues I believe.
I think that they’ll have a place where they want to get to, probably, and the ‘loose cannon’ salvo will potentially be to push the process along.
And again in the stadium discussion most suggestions are pouring good money after bad. I don’t think there is a way everyone gets what they want in a stadium and everything is under budget. Someone’s heritage somewhere will get chucked.
And lastly- no one ever discusses what the broadcast environment will be in 5-10 years. We have poor turnouts for sport now because we have to accommodate viewers in two or three countries on TV and weekend evenings are the best for watching at home. The focus has been Sky Sports viewing figures on a Friday and Saturday night.
I’m not sure, but previously weekends during the day was the best for getting a crowd to attend live sport, iirc?
Already streaming has replaced conventional TV in its most lucrative time slots in NZ. By some measures.
The arrangements for sports broadcasts may make match days more agreeable for fans to watch at the ground or there may be the ability to improve the experience and revenue of match day that non-negotiable broadcast plans took away.
It might also be possible that there’ll be more direct revenue from broadcast subscriptions by sport. We don’t know, though it’s likely Sky will hold on for as long as they can to the current model.
I don’t know how, but future broadcast considerations will play a part in which stadiums are used.
I understand that it wouldn't be a simple case of selling NHS for development, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not doing a lot to justify its own existence. Does the Shore really have any stadium needs apart from just having somewhere to watch provincial rugby?
I think it is more about location. Not necessarily today but in the future. In NZ we are a little spoiled in terms of size, in most places, our large sports venues are reasonably accessible. I know people moan about getting to NHS but it certainly is accessible in terms of positioning with road access, the big problem is the Harbour Bridge. On a straight run (with little traffic) I think it is about 20-25 minutes from the CBD ( I used to live in Albany and work in the city). When I first moved to Auckland in 1976, a trip to Albany from town was around 45 minutes (no motorway then and part of the drive through farm land). My point here is that conditions change over time and, often, we don’t forward plan enough. If they ever get another harbour crossing and improved public transport ( which might not happen in my life time but surely will at some point) NHS will be in a prime location.
Our population is not such to support weekly big stadium events but it would be interesting to know what cities, of similar size to Greater Auckland and without a major league sports franchise, have in terms of stadia and their locations from the populace. I saw a pic the other day of the big stadium in Capetown (I think) and the stadium looked to be miles from anywhere.Footy_Fella
I understand that it wouldn't be a simple case of selling NHS for development, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not doing a lot to justify its own existence. Does the Shore really have any stadium needs apart from just having somewhere to watch provincial rugby?
I think it is more about location. Not necessarily today but in the future. In NZ we are a little spoiled in terms of size, in most places, our large sports venues are reasonably accessible. I know people moan about getting to NHS but it certainly is accessible in terms of positioning with road access, the big problem is the Harbour Bridge. On a straight run (with little traffic) I think it is about 20-25 minutes from the CBD ( I used to live in Albany and work in the city). When I first moved to Auckland in 1976, a trip to Albany from town was around 45 minutes (no motorway then and part of the drive through farm land). My point here is that conditions change over time and, often, we don’t forward plan enough. If they ever get another harbour crossing and improved public transport ( which might not happen in my life time but surely will at some point) NHS will be in a prime location.
Our population is not such to support weekly big stadium events but it would be interesting to know what cities, of similar size to Greater Auckland and without a major league sports franchise, have in terms of stadia and their locations from the populace. I saw a pic the other day of the big stadium in Capetown (I think) and the stadium looked to be miles from anywhere.Footy_Fella
I understand that it wouldn't be a simple case of selling NHS for development, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not doing a lot to justify its own existence. Does the Shore really have any stadium needs apart from just having somewhere to watch provincial rugby?
Football stadiums in the CBD are of course not the norm, but it's both a different sporting and urban landscape here in NZ. The new team won't have the benefit of being an established cultural institution like clubs abroad - it will need to try represent and be accessible to as many Aucklanders as possible. Choosing a venue north of god knows what percent of Auckland's population doesn't feel like a good way to achieve that. I also don't see how it will become more accessible in the near future - a rail connection seems to be a very, very long way off currently.
I made my last comments more about having a stadium on the Shore rather than it being a home for the new A League team. But your response got me thinking. How many fans do you think will be there every week for the new team? If we are talking less than 10,000 (after things settle down) would it really matter if some people decide not to go because they live in Howick or Papakura? A stadium situated anywhere is going to be a pain to get to for someone in a place like Auckland.
I mean sure, but some locations are still more of a pain to get to for more people than other locations. For a sport with not much of a geographic bias in Akl, the more central the venue the better the catchment.
Getting into town is also just a commute that more people are already entangled with. They understand the transport links, the hospo on offer, and could even stay after work for a game on Friday.
I get what you’re saying but there are so many variables. How many actually work in town v suburbs? (to address the Friday night after work argument). How many actually go out on the razz before or after a game? All that type if stuff and balance against who your target market is, future proofing etc. I’m certain there is a great deal of science in making these types of decisions, they really need some proper research, not just a hunch of the kind we are all making. Will be interesting won’t it?
I don’t mind betting they will plump for Eden Park, they could base themselves at NHS or anywhere else that can provide the facilities they need for the day to day stuff.Footy_Fella
I mean sure, but some locations are still more of a pain to get to for more people than other locations. For a sport with not much of a geographic bias in Akl, the more central the venue the better the catchment.
Getting into town is also just a commute that more people are already entangled with. They understand the transport links, the hospo on offer, and could even stay after work for a game on Friday.
I mean you're not wrong - people can definitely be too CBD-centric when envisioning how the average Aucklander lives their life. But there's still I think maybe 80,000 (?) people working in the CBD and a permanent population of maybe 50,000 (?) that could all potentially be in walking distance of a stadium. A bit of a drop in the ocean when compared to Auckland's whole population, but still possibly game changing numbers for a football club.
The Nix ALM Auckland crowds at NHS have been way less than those they have got at EP (range 10-23K?).
Sure there have been some factors contribute to that, like team performance. I think the last game of that terrible season under Kalezic was at NHS, and the crowd was under 2K?? Or was it the game against Muscat's VUC, where the surafce was so bad they painted it green?? But then under Rudan the Nix are red hot & exciting and over 23K turn up in Mt Eden. Also for sure some of the big crowds at EP, were boosted by the Nix returning from the Covid seasons in Aussie etc.
But pro club football crowds at NHS (going back to the Knights & Kingz) have just consistently been poor to woeful. It would be a very bad choice as a new Auckland team main home ground. Recent history shows as much.
The Nix ALM Auckland crowds at NHS have been way less than those they have got at EP (range 10-23K?).
Sure there have been some factors contribute to that, like team performance. I think the last game of that terrible season under Kalezic was at NHS, and the crowd was under 2K?? Or was it the game against Muscat's VUC, where the surafce was so bad they painted it green?? But then under Rudan the Nix are red hot & exciting and over 23K turn up in Mt Eden. Also for sure some of the big crowds at EP, were boosted by the Nix returning from the Covid seasons in Aussie etc.
But pro club football crowds at NHS (going back to the Knights & Kingz) have just consistently been poor to woeful. It would be a very bad choice as a new Auckland team main home ground. Recent history shows as much.
A lot of that could be down to form of all three sides. The very first Kingz season at NHS was quite well attended.
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
The last two will sadly not happen as the Speedway guys will die in a ditch before moving. Cricket is perfectly fine at Eden Park #2 or the "Kennards Oval" or whatever they call it these days
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
The last two will sadly not happen as the Speedway guys will die in a ditch before moving. Cricket is perfectly fine at Eden Park #2 or the "Kennards Oval" or whatever they call it these days
Warriors fans won't want to move from their spiritual home either. Especially after the season just gone.
I don’t see that happening at all. He is ultra wealthy for a reason and I doubt that he got there by building anything like a white elephant of a stadium in the centre of and the on the most expensive plot of land/sea in Auckland.Footy_Fella
billyspleen75
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
Oh wow, where was this said?
On Newstalk ZB. Part on Foley/Auckland franchise starts at 02:15 https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/weekend-sport-with-jason-pine/audio/james-mconie-the-crowd-goes-wild-commentator-recaps-this-weeks-sports-highlights/
I don’t see that happening at all. He is ultra wealthy for a reason and I doubt that he got there by building anything like a white elephant of a stadium in the centre of and the on the most expensive plot of land/sea in Auckland.Footy_Fella
billyspleen75
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
Oh wow, where was this said?
Yeah, I like to think a boutique football stadium is viable, but one on the waterfront seems too good to be true, even if it would be a great location.
I don’t see that happening at all. He is ultra wealthy for a reason and I doubt that he got there by building anything like a white elephant of a stadium in the centre of and the on the most expensive plot of land/sea in Auckland.Footy_Fella
billyspleen75
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
Oh wow, where was this said?
Yeah, I like to think a boutique football stadium is viable, but one on the waterfront seems too good to be true, even if it would be a great location.
is a 25-28k seat stadium boutique though, sure it's not 40k-60k like Eden park, but that's almost as big as most other stadia in NZ (its bigger than the warriors home at Mt Smart - Warriors could fill it if it was in the south but I doubt those fans will be happy travelling across town to get to home games. I'd have though a boutique football stadium in this country would be 10-15k max. Build it with the ability to doube capacity with temp seating and you have potentially a full stadium each home game and increased capaicty for the bandwagoners in the finals series.
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
The last two will sadly not happen as the Speedway guys will die in a ditch before moving. Cricket is perfectly fine at Eden Park #2 or the "Kennards Oval" or whatever they call it these days
Warriors fans won't want to move from their spiritual home either. Especially after the season just gone.
Warriors fans are very much in support a rectangular Waterfront Stadium. We just don't ever want to move to Eden Park. And Albany is too far.
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
The last two will sadly not happen as the Speedway guys will die in a ditch before moving. Cricket is perfectly fine at Eden Park #2 or the "Kennards Oval" or whatever they call it these days
Yeah speedway will be very difficult to move. Cricket definitely needs a better option than EP2, that's for domestic cricket only. Auckland have only had one or two tests in the last decade because there isn't a genuine cricketing ground.
I don’t see that happening at all. He is ultra wealthy for a reason and I doubt that he got there by building anything like a white elephant of a stadium in the centre of and the on the most expensive plot of land/sea in Auckland.Footy_Fella
billyspleen75
James Mconie mentioned that Foley is looking to build a boutique stadium down by the Waterfront. If it is a 25-28k stadium, i think if they and the Warriors team up that would work really well.
That would be the first and main step in the (my) ideal scenario They can then keep all rugby at Eden Park. Bulldoze Albany and replace it with a Porirua Park type stadium at Onewa Domain. Move Speedway to Mt Smart. Move Test Cricket and smaller one dayers to Western Springs (as I'm sure t20s will stay at EP)
Oh wow, where was this said?
Yeah, I like to think a boutique football stadium is viable, but one on the waterfront seems too good to be true, even if it would be a great location.
is a 25-28k seat stadium boutique though, sure it's not 40k-60k like Eden park, but that's almost as big as most other stadia in NZ (its bigger than the warriors home at Mt Smart - Warriors could fill it if it was in the south but I doubt those fans will be happy travelling across town to get to home games. I'd have though a boutique football stadium in this country would be 10-15k max. Build it with the ability to doube capacity with temp seating and you have potentially a full stadium each home game and increased capaicty for the bandwagoners in the finals series.
Yep exactly. And there would be many sporting events aside from A-League games that would surely benefit from a venue in that 10-15k area.
Love the idea of downtown boutique stadium. I think the 15k range could work but obviously a 20-30k size would be immense as well. But a bigger question is where exactly?
As mentioned earlier in the thread, the Wynyard Quarter area would be prime in terms of optics, hospitality, public transport, central for all outer sides of town, etc. However, that land seems to be dedicated towards a future garden by local iwi.
Also, I think any consideration of Albany as the home of the new side would set them up for complete failure. If you're in the central city you would keep the entire city as a potential audience whereas I know Albany could alienate between 25-75% of casual fans. How many die-hards would travel from Howick/Papakura/Titirangi to Albany in peak Friday night traffic or on a rainy Sunday afternoon? There is no sort of hospitality or engaging surrounding area for the vibe that this team should be going for.
18-20k stadium on the waterfront Next 3 to 4 years Covered seats but no roof due to cost Potentially partner with another professional sports team.
- Foley on the radio tonight.
I think if it's the Warriors, they may need to increase to at least 23-25k. Hopefully the Black Knights get 20k plus crowds regularly too to support that idea
18-20k stadium on the waterfront Next 3 to 4 years Covered seats but no roof due to cost Potentially partner with another professional sports team.
- Foley on the radio tonight.
I think if it's the Warriors, they may need to increase to at least 23-25k. Hopefully the Black Knights get 20k plus crowds regularly too to support that idea
Wowee. 18-20+ feels ambitious but I suppose no one knows what attendances will look like until the first season
I'd guess that first season crowds will be lower than the nix's, but if they have any siccess, particularly over the nix then the second season will be a masive improvement. It wouldnt surpise me that by season three they'll have regular crowds of 10-12k
I'd guess that first season crowds will be lower than the nix's, but if they have any siccess, particularly over the nix then the second season will be a masive improvement. It wouldnt surpise me that by season three they'll have regular crowds of 10-12k
Think the opposite. With a big marketing budget, some highest profile visa signings, and just the novelty of ALM football back in the 09 after 17 years the crowds will be big. Comfortably larger than what the Nix currently get at the ROF. That's season 1. After that who knows, but like any shiny new toy some of the casual interest will drop off.
I remember in 1990s when the Warriors were launched, and their first game at Mt Smart in front of a full house hosting glamour outfit at the time the Broncos. They had the army doing stuff under the lights, with helicopters etc. The Warriors had some high profile signings their first season. Dean Bell. Andy Platt & Dennis Betts from the UK. I can see some similarlities season 1, no expense spared on signings and marketing glitz.
I'd guess that first season crowds will be lower than the nix's, but if they have any siccess, particularly over the nix then the second season will be a masive improvement. It wouldnt surpise me that by season three they'll have regular crowds of 10-12k
Think the opposite. With a big marketing budget, some highest profile visa signings, and just the novelty of ALM football back in the 09 after 17 years the crowds will be big. Comfortably larger than what the Nix currently get at the ROF. That's season 1. After that who knows, but like any shiny new toy some of the casual interest will drop off.
I remember in 1990s when the Warriors were launched, and their first game at Mt Smart in front of a full house hosting glamour outfit at the time the Broncos. They had the army doing stuff under the lights, with helicopters etc. The Warriors had some high profile signings their first season. Dean Bell. Andy Platt & Dennis Betts from the UK. I can see some similarlities season 1, no expense spared on signings and marketing glitz.
Really not sure what about attendances at NZ sporting events gives you the confidence to expect those sorts of crowds. Hope im wrong just dont get the confidence in expecting local football people to support it.
