A new Foley stadium of that size would include other income sources too. Could be a shopping mall, apartments, restaurants, bars and convention facilities meaning the complex doesn’t rely on just sport and concerts for income. Of course Auckland already has those facilities in abundance (new Sky Convention Centre will corner the big conference market). I would think a Foley stadium planning scenario starts from a whole different place than stadium proposals in the past. He won’t have too many problems accessing funds ( as in not being dependent on swapping land with Eden Park, needing Council and Government funding). Will be primarily concerned only with being a football ground (not having to be configured for cricket), essentially based on a proper financial model notbthe usual public facility bullshark with pie in the sky projections and the like.coochiee
A new Auckland downtown Stadium, which was last looked at really seriously pre the 2011 RWC, was always discussed prior as a replacement to Eden Park, so capacity 50,000 plus. Discussion about building something around 18,500 has only come up because Foley mentioned it. Again he may not have fully understood the different dynamics to the whole broader Auckland jigsaw, when he made his comment.
AAMI stadium in Melbs hosts VUC, Melb City, Melb Rebels (Super Rugby) & Mel Storm (NRL). They make the scheduling work with 4 teams. No cricket. NZ Cricket need to find an Auckland home for themselves elsewhere if EP is knocked over.
Oh and with no offence intended I don't think ALW games which might attract 3,000 max in Auckland after the initial novelty, are really the type of fixtures (similar NPC rugby games), that stadium experts say contribute to that 30-40 event annual target to breakeven/turn a profit. As mentioned elsewhere Auckland's ALW team are likely to be playing mostly at Kiwitea St or similar. Foley builds his 18,500 stadium he'll be keen to woo the Warriors & Blues as fellow tenants.
A new Auckland downtown Stadium, which was last looked at really seriously pre the 2011 RWC, was always discussed prior as a replacement to Eden Park, so capacity 50,000 plus. Discussion about building something around 18,500 has only come up because Foley mentioned it. Again he may not have fully understood the different dynamics to the whole broader Auckland jigsaw, when he made his comment.
AAMI stadium in Melbs hosts VUC, Melb City, Melb Rebels (Super Rugby) & Mel Storm (NRL). They make the scheduling work with 4 teams. No cricket. NZ Cricket need to find an Auckland home for themselves elsewhere if EP is knocked over.
Oh and with no offence intended I don't think ALW games which might attract 3,000 max in Auckland after the initial novelty, are really the type of fixtures (similar NPC rugby games), that stadium experts say contribute to that 30-40 event annual target to breakeven/turn a profit. As mentioned elsewhere Auckland's ALW team are likely to be playing mostly at Kiwitea St or similar. Foley builds his 18,500 stadium he'll be keen to woo the Warriors & Blues as fellow tenants.
Wow, i had assumed 3 games per weekend would be too much. But looking at AAMI parks scheduling, they have 2 games per weekend a lot and at least 2 upcoming instances of 3 different sports in 3 days. I suppose they should be able to do it in a downtown stadium then too.
I think even if those main teams all up sticks and move to the new stadium, there will still be a need for a smaller 10k stadium, perhaps at North Harbour, Onewa Domain, Mt Smart or Trusts Stadium. Somewhere the ALW team, Warriors Reserves, Chatham Cup Finals etc to be played or for an unavoidable double booking.
I think you could also see Auckland FC ALM take 1 (even 2) games a season to Tauranga and/or the Tron, which could help avoid scheduling issues with Warriors or Blues or Garden Shows or Ed Sheeran. A annual Xmas/New Years game at Tauranga Domain could make some sense.
I think you could also see Auckland FC ALM take 1 (even 2) games a season to Tauranga and/or the Tron, which could help avoid scheduling issues with Warriors or Blues or Garden Shows or Ed Sheeran. A annual Xmas/New Years game at Tauranga Domain could make some sense.
Hamilton definitely. Tauranga Domain is ass. only seats about 5k too. They are proposing a new stadium being built which would seat 7k and have room for 8k temporary seats, but that is 7 or 8 years away. Plenty of Nimby's fighting that one.
I think you could also see Auckland FC ALM take 1 (even 2) games a season to Tauranga and/or the Tron, which could help avoid scheduling issues with Warriors or Blues or Garden Shows or Ed Sheeran. A annual Xmas/New Years game at Tauranga Domain could make some sense.
Hamilton definitely. Tauranga Domain is ass. only seats about 5k too. They are proposing a new stadium being built which would seat 7k and have room for 8k temporary seats, but that is 7 or 8 years away. Plenty of Nimby's fighting that one.
About 20 years ago I watched a few BOP rugby games in that speedway stadium that is out by Papamoa. From memory it was at least 10,000 capacity. An option maybe? But yeah that part of the country has its population swell over the Xmas period
I think you could also see Auckland FC ALM take 1 (even 2) games a season to Tauranga and/or the Tron, which could help avoid scheduling issues with Warriors or Blues or Garden Shows or Ed Sheeran. A annual Xmas/New Years game at Tauranga Domain could make some sense.
Hamilton definitely. Tauranga Domain is ass. only seats about 5k too. They are proposing a new stadium being built which would seat 7k and have room for 8k temporary seats, but that is 7 or 8 years away. Plenty of Nimby's fighting that one.
About 20 years ago I watched a few BOP rugby games in that speedway stadium that is out by Papamoa. From memory it was at least 10,000 capacity. An option maybe? But yeah that part of the country has its population swell over the Xmas period
That where Pantelis did his knee? Worst away trip for me.
Lot of talk in the news now about one of the three waterfront proposals that NZR is involved with.
Hope the Auckland a-league outfit is able to be involved in whichever proposal that Council will select as their preferred proposal in Feb/March next year to ensure that it something that works for them. Surely a big stadium that can be effectively downsized by curtaining off a top tier is a must.
The Eden Park proposal seems to still want to be a cricket ground. It also will apparently cost in the region of 850 million which is not much cheaper than the new stadium proposals. These things condemn that proposal in my view.
It surely cannot be realistic for Foley to build his own stadium, as much as I'd love to see that.
The man is a billionaire so not much is impossible. But to build a new 18,500 stadium on prime waterfront land would not be a cheap exercise. All for 26 ALM/ALW games a season plus finals?? Gets in the Warriors as co tenants that's a help. But is the waterfront land all Council or iwi owned? What if they don't give Foley the land he wants as they want the bigger 50,000 stadium built, as fits in better with Auckland's stadium needs in the bigger picture.
NZ Rugby likely more keen on new 50,000 seater stadium or revamped Eden Park. Even though Super Rugby will soon operate independant of NZ Rugby, I see the Blues (and Moana Pasika) going with whatever venue NZR signs up with.
So yeah I think a BC Place type edifice (upper tiers blocked off for smaller crowds) is the best solution. I'm a cricket fan, but they need to find their own specific venue in Auckland.
That’s assuming that NZR aren’t trying to get in early and make life difficult for the Auckland team. Can’t imagine there’s much of an upside to the rugby guys to having a successful football team around.
Curtained off lower tier would be great but at 25,000+ it still ceases to provide a boutique football stadium atmosphere. Now of course the latter is completely a luxury, but with NHS stadium and then surely Mt Smart gone as stadiums, there needs to be somewhere for smaller events. Let's not forget NPC, Moana Pasifika, ALW, Chatham Cup + Kate Sheppard finals, National League finals, smaller international games of all codes, even high school finals of all codes. Should be possible to have two rectangular stadiums given we've seen fit to prop up 3 average ones over the last 20 or 30 years.
I'd be very surprised if there were plans to ever get rid of Mt Smart. It's the spirtual home of the Warriors and far closer to 50% plus of their supporter base than any downtown stadium. It's the only ground of a meaningful size that services the whole of South Auckland.
I think the Warriors would need to be very careful about moving all their games downtown. Especially if it was just a 18,500 size Foley Stadium full of Ponsonby types necking $40 cocktails, who knew nothing about league, just there because the Wahs were the hottest ticket in town. That would just piss off their long standing suffering core support. Note the angst earlier this year with plans to move their finals game to Eden Park.
Of course put the Wahs in a 50,000 seater ground and there is room for all. But they still may play some games at Penrose, like how some of Sydney NRL clubs mix up home hames between 80,000 seater Homebush and their traditional small suburban grounds.
Knocking over Mt Smart, to build a new similar sized ground downtown, near a new 50,000 seater ground - that can be 'curtained off' to 25,000 - makes no sense at all on so many fronts. Especially in an age of trying to reduce our carbon/CO2 emissions.
if you have a 18k capacity stadium downtown in Auckland as well as a 50k seat stadium, then you could count the number of sporting events played in the 50k seat stadium in a year on two hands, maybe even one. I don't think there are enough stadium size concerts happening to supplement that. That's not a viable proposal. But I agree that the bottom tier of such a stadium couldn't be 25k, would need to be no more than 20. Footy_Fella
Curtained off lower tier would be great but at 25,000+ it still ceases to provide a boutique football stadium atmosphere. Now of course the latter is completely a luxury, but with NHS stadium and then surely Mt Smart gone as stadiums, there needs to be somewhere for smaller events. Let's not forget NPC, Moana Pasifika, ALW, Chatham Cup + Kate Sheppard finals, National League finals, smaller international games of all codes, even high school finals of all codes. Should be possible to have two rectangular stadiums given we've seen fit to prop up 3 average ones over the last 20 or 30 years.
All true, but it doesn't stop the fact that in the greater scheme of things in the quay park scenario a foley stadium has more of a reason to exist than Mt Smart.
I'm sure some warriors fans would be unhappy and their relationship with mt smart is very cool, but worth noting that the fan backlash against Eden Park isn't simply because it's not mt smart. There's a bit of extra bad blood between EP and league there.
All true, but it doesn't stop the fact that in the greater scheme of things in the quay park scenario a foley stadium has more of a reason to exist than Mt Smart.
I'm sure some warriors fans would be unhappy and their relationship with mt smart is very cool, but worth noting that the fan backlash against Eden Park isn't simply because it's not mt smart. There's a bit of extra bad blood between EP and league there.
It's mostly because of EP/Rugby and the fact is a crap stadium for 20ish thousand fans to watch a rugby league game in a hexagon/oval/triangle shaped field. We (WARRIORS FANS lol) are mostly keen to get on board with a purpose built rectangular field in the cbd.
Texan billionaire Bill Foley and former ASB Classic tennis tournament director Karl Budge are the latest hopefuls to enter Auckland’s long-running stadium impasse.The 78-year-old Foley is bankrolling an Auckland A-League football franchise that will initially play at Go Media Mt Smart before moving to a new 20,000-seat stadium on the waterfront… Budge is part of a consortium proposing a 20,000-seat temporary stadium at the central-city Viaduct Harbour, which organisers believe could be built in time to host major sports events next year.It is understood the backers of the temporary venue have told city leaders it could be constructed within six months, meaning it would be ready to host the first match of Auckland’s new A-League team in October 2024. However, the self-funding project has a few “buts” - Auckland Council must provide the site at no cost, and it would need support from the Warriors and Blues, who are contractually tied to Go Media and Eden Park over the next few years.
A new game plan under Mayor Wayne Brown to determine an “Auckland Main Stadium” is likely to conclude that Eden Park will stay on as the premier venue for All Blacks tests, big events like last year’s successful Fifa Women’s Football Cup, and concerts.
About $70m is earmarked for Go Media Mt Smart Stadium… The 25,000-seat stadium is in line for improvements to the main stadium, a 10,000-capacity secondary stadium and high-performance facilities in partnership with the private sector. Talks are also underway to improve public transport and traffic management in and around the stadium.
Edit: article also mentions Western Springs may be converted to a full time concert venue (fate of Speedway would be unknown), NHS may be done away with or heavily downsized, and rehashes the 4 big stadium options already reported on, though it is interesting that Eden Park is apparently already the frontrunner over the other proposed options
Edit 2: rather interesting that Foley is not aligned with any of the 4 "main" options...
Texan billionaire Bill Foley and former ASB Classic tennis tournament director Karl Budge are the latest hopefuls to enter Auckland’s long-running stadium impasse.The 78-year-old Foley is bankrolling an Auckland A-League football franchise that will initially play at Go Media Mt Smart before moving to a new 20,000-seat stadium on the waterfront… Budge is part of a consortium proposing a 20,000-seat temporary stadium at the central-city Viaduct Harbour, which organisers believe could be built in time to host major sports events next year.It is understood the backers of the temporary venue have told city leaders it could be constructed within six months, meaning it would be ready to host the first match of Auckland’s new A-League team in October 2024. However, the self-funding project has a few “buts” - Auckland Council must provide the site at no cost, and it would need support from the Warriors and Blues, who are contractually tied to Go Media and Eden Park over the next few years.
A new game plan under Mayor Wayne Brown to determine an “Auckland Main Stadium” is likely to conclude that Eden Park will stay on as the premier venue for All Blacks tests, big events like last year’s successful Fifa Women’s Football Cup, and concerts.
About $70m is earmarked for Go Media Mt Smart Stadium… The 25,000-seat stadium is in line for improvements to the main stadium, a 10,000-capacity secondary stadium and high-performance facilities in partnership with the private sector. Talks are also underway to improve public transport and traffic management in and around the stadium.
Edit: article also mentions Western Springs may be converted to a full time concert venue (fate of Speedway would be unknown), NHS may be done away with or heavily downsized, and rehashes the 4 big stadium options already reported on, though it is interesting that Eden Park is apparently already the frontrunner over the other proposed options
Edit 2: rather interesting that Foley is not aligned with any of the 4 "main" options...
Well Foley is probably drawing on the success of soccer-specific stadiums in the MLS when he made his suggestion. You can't call any of those 4 proposals soccer-specific.
At least they all sound like being rectangular with no mention of cricket. With perhaps the exception of EP, maybe keeping its existing shape - lack of info on that front
It seems to me that Council call all the shots, any proposal for anything requires their consent, cooperation and a financial contribution. Let's just assume for the minute that this article is correct, that the Eden Park upgrade will be the preferred option and the other new stadium proposals are dead in the water.
From memory, the current Eden Park proposal is intended to keep the ability to play cricket there, and even if that didn't happen, the stadium is intended to be huge (60k) and iirc there hasn't been much chat about the venue being made ideal for smaller events. This leads me to believe that it will not be an ideal venue for the Auckland A-League side (at least not for games that aren't derbies & playoff games with crowds <20k).
I'm therefore intrigued about the comments about Mt Smart upgrades. A 10k secondary stadium? How might that look? As well as the upgrades to surrounding PT etc. Seems to me that this is much more realistic (and likely to be able to be physically actioned much faster) than anything else proposed so far.
Also - if you needed any more convincing that they're a private business and a brand before a 'community asset' - Eden Park are now selling their own cologne.
It seems to me that Council call all the shots, any proposal for anything requires their consent, cooperation and a financial contribution. Let's just assume for the minute that this article is correct, that the Eden Park upgrade will be the preferred option and the other new stadium proposals are dead in the water.
From memory, the current Eden Park proposal is intended to keep the ability to play cricket there, and even if that didn't happen, the stadium is intended to be huge (60k) and iirc there hasn't been much chat about the venue being made ideal for smaller events. This leads me to believe that it will not be an ideal venue for the Auckland A-League side (at least not for games that aren't derbies & playoff games with crowds <20k).
I'm therefore intrigued about the comments about Mt Smart upgrades. A 10k secondary stadium? How might that look? As well as the upgrades to surrounding PT etc. Seems to me that this is much more realistic (and likely to be able to be physically actioned much faster) than anything else proposed so far.
Pretty sure Eden Park 2.0, does have plans to parition off the upper tiers, in a bid to create a better atmosphere for smaller crowds. I mean it's an expensive upgrade proposal, not a hell of a alot cheaper than some of the new downtown stadium costings. Though the sunken stadium proposal is clearly the most expensive.
And yeah the idea of a 2nd ground at Mt Smart, seating max 10K is intriguing. I'm guessing that's targeted towards Auckland NPC, Mona Pasika Super Rugby, plus women's & aged group sport. Foley will be wanting crowds more than 10K for Auckland FC.
Also - if you needed any more convincing that they're a private business and a brand before a 'community asset' - Eden Park are now selling their own cologne.
I thought it must have been April Fool's come early when I saw that, but Eden Park has it's own Merch Shop, I wonder how many sales are made from this page (lol) https://edenpark.co.nz/shop/
Also - if you needed any more convincing that they're a private business and a brand before a 'community asset' - Eden Park are now selling their own cologne.
I thought it must have been April Fool's come early when I saw that, but Eden Park has it's own Merch Shop, I wonder how many sales are made from this page (lol) https://edenpark.co.nz/shop/
Probably looking to capture those looking for the French fashion house https://www.eden-park.com/ who mistype the URL!
Also - if you needed any more convincing that they're a private business and a brand before a 'community asset' - Eden Park are now selling their own cologne.
I thought it must have been April Fool's come early when I saw that, but Eden Park has it's own Merch Shop, I wonder how many sales are made from this page (lol) https://edenpark.co.nz/shop/
Probably looking to capture those looking for the French fashion house https://www.eden-park.com/ who mistype the URL!
They openly state here in the UK that their name is inspired by rugby. Was posted all over Twickenham when I went there for the company Christmas party last month (my employer sponsors English Rugby).
if Eden Park ends up being the preferred choice, why not do a Cardiff Arms Park/Millennium Stadium.
Flatten the place completely, build a decent stadium and make Eden Park 2 able to host cricket and other smaller (sub 10k) events in a decent small stadium which is all that Cardiff Arms Park is now.
If Wales can do it with it's small population, Auckland and NZ must be able to, too.
if Eden Park ends up being the preferred choice, why not do a Cardiff Arms Park/Millennium Stadium.
Flatten the place completely, build a decent stadium and make Eden Park 2 a lble to host cricket and other smaller (sub 10k) events in a decent small stadium which is all that Cardiff Arms Park is now.
If Wales can do it with it's small population, Auckland and NZ must be able to, too.
That sort of scenario - a 50,000 seater National Stadium, alongside a smaller say 15K ground does make some sense. For Auckland anyway. I've always thought EP no 2 would make a nice boutique football/rugby ground.
Significant difference with Wales, is every concert, or national sports event is held at the Millenium Stadium (MS). Like both the Welsh rugby & football teams play ALL their games there?? So I'm guessing with concerts etc, the MS hosts nearly 30-50 packed events per year? There isn't a Welsh Helen Clark, limiting them to 6 concerts per annum.
NZ's larger in size (and 2 islands), where in Wales you can drive to Cardiff from anywhere in a few hours. NZ we tend to spread events, and national team games around the country. They ain't all in Auckland. Basically for the owners of MS, it's easier to make a buck compared to Eden Park. From memory I read somewhere that for an expensive new stadium of around 50,000 to likely break even running cost wise, it needs min 40 events per year. That's EP's problem if concerts are limited to max 6 per year.
if Eden Park ends up being the preferred choice, why not do a Cardiff Arms Park/Millennium Stadium.
Flatten the place completely, build a decent stadium and make Eden Park 2 a lble to host cricket and other smaller (sub 10k) events in a decent small stadium which is all that Cardiff Arms Park is now.
If Wales can do it with it's small population, Auckland and NZ must be able to, too.
That sort of scenario - a 50,000 seater National Stadium, alongside a smaller say 15K ground does make some sense. For Auckland anyway. I've always thought EP no 2 would make a nice boutique football/rugby ground.
Significant difference with Wales, is every concert, or national sports event is held at the Millenium Stadium (MS). Like both the Welsh rugby & fottball teams play ALL their games there?? So I'm guessing with concerts etc, the MS hosts nearly 30-50 packed events per year? There isn't a Welsh Helen Clark, limiting them to 6 concerts per annum.
NZ's a larger in size (and 2 islands), where in Wales you can drive to Cardiff from anywhere in a few hours. NZ we tend to spread events, and national team games around the country. They ain't all in Auckland. Basically for the owners of MS, it's easier to make a buck compared to Eden Park. From memory I read somewhere that for an expensive new stadium of around 50,000 to likely break even running cost wise, it needs min 40 events per year. That's EP's problem if concerts are limited to max 6 per year.
Think the Welsh football team play at Cardiff City? I know they've definitely played at the principality, but I don't think it's that often after attendances weren't what they thought. Still, within the same city though. I'd imagine the rugby and concerts are sufficient for it to be viable.
Behind paywall at NZ Herald but have a search or look yourselves. Latest proposal at Quay Park, this is the most exciting prospect in my eyes. Of course cost is a big factor but I like the concept. Multi purpose area, sport, hotels, retail, apartments, immediately adjacent to Spark Arena…..
Very cool looking. Has been previously reported that Council's preferred option is to upgrade Eden, but I guess if there is this sort of reporting still happening then it can't be a done deal just yet.
Behind paywall at NZ Herald but have a search or look yourselves. Latest proposal at Quay Park, this is the most exciting prospect in my eyes. Of course cost is a big factor but I like the concept. Multi purpose area, sport, hotels, retail, apartments, immediately adjacent to Spark Arena…..
Not a chance this will happen The council say it will take six weeks to fix a road in Auckland then a few weeks later make it 18 weeks, with no logical explanation
