Marquee
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Doloras wrote:
ForteanTimes wrote:
MetalLegNZ wrote:

More a reference to the fact the club supports players who work for each other and doesn't like tall poppy types.



Totally agree "Blue Collar" isn't a derogatory term. It's a type of work that people usually do in an environment where there is no place for a high-maintenance attitude.


So the implication is that people who have "white-collar" jobs are snotty elitists with attitude? I dunno, in my experience of "blue-collar" work there was a lot of bullying and assholness whereas in "white collar" jobs people don't give a shit if you're a bit odd as long as you do the job.



Not implying anything.

But from personal experience I've seen as much and to some extent more bullying in white collar jobs. In the blue collar jobs you get called a c*nt and that's usually the end of it and I've seen punch ups which were not nice. If you keep getting called a c*nt then maybe, as I was, you're not up for to the job and it was time to look elsewhere.

White collar jobs the bullying tends to be hierarchical, gossipy, back-stabbing, passive-aggressive and sort of insidious. It also depends on the gender mix. Male dominated workplaces men tend to swear at you and can get physical. Women tend to exclude and manipulate and gossip.

Neither is very nice and are both extremely damaging. I fully expect the different types of bullying to merge as workplaces/jobs get more gender neutral.

If you think doing a good job protects you from bullying then you've been extremely fortunate in the jobs you've had.

In white collar jobs bullying from bosses is the most common from what I've read. Many managers are not as skilled or trained as they could be and take out their frustration or insecurity on the more gifted individuals below them.

Starting XI
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about 17 years
Doloras wrote:

I am beginning to get annoyed at this forgetting Kenny or assuming he'll go home with Carlos. Perhaps we assume that because Carlos has broken English while Kenny has little-to-none, that Carlos is Kenny's boss and he'll take home Kenny in his luggage, which is an insult to Kenny.

To be on the record, I'm a fan of Kenny's work rate, personality and attitude on the field.  He may not be the perfect import, but I hope he's not in any way tied to Carlos' strings.
Opinion Privileges revoked
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10K
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almost 15 years

I don't want to depress everyone, but perhaps Reira will come back from his injury and suck. Maybe his first season of pro football was a not-to-be-repeated fluke.

Starting XI
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Doloras wrote:

I don't want to depress everyone, but perhaps Reira will come back from his injury and suck. Maybe his first season of pro football was a not-to-be-repeated fluke.

Don't think he's that type of player personally (i.e. up and down form-wise), unless the injury has a long term effect. I expect him to slot back in and be a tidy and hard-working midfielder as he always was.
I do however worry that we (the supporters) and possibly even the rest of the team will expect him to do too much when he gets back. He is not the missing link that will make everything else work again. And other teams will be analysing his strengths/weaknesses now they've seen him.
Marquee
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almost 17 years

Where does Gorrin fit with Carlos gone? In front of Lia and Riera? Or alongside Riera with <insert CAM signing here> in front of them?

RR
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Bossi Insider
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about 16 years
brumbys wrote:

Where does Gorrin fit with Carlos gone? In front of Lia and Riera? Or alongside Riera with <insert CAM signing here> in front of them?

Without seeing him play, not sure we know. Ernie did said he was like a younger version of Riera.
Marquee
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about 12 years

I think fro what I have read he's more a deep lying playmaker so I'd expect him to play alongside Riera.

Who plays as the AM will be interesting.

Will Hicks / Rufer or Ridenton get a shot as this is all their preferred positions. Lia I think did well this year, but he lacks that creative flair.

If we get McGlinchey he is the obvious candidate, although I think he tended to work best out wide a little at CCM.


RR
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Bossi Insider
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about 16 years
MetalLegNZ wrote:

I think fro what I have read he's more a deep lying playmaker so I'd expect him to play alongside Riera.

Who plays as the AM will be interesting.

Will Hicks / Rufer or Ridenton get a shot as this is all their preferred positions. Lia I think did well this year, but he lacks that creative flair.

If we get McGlinchey he is the obvious candidate, although I think he tended to work best out wide a little at CCM.


Wee Mac would be perfect for Kenny's role in that unbalanced 4-4-2, allowing Kenny to push up into the Boyd role to provide more of a goal scoring threat. I'm hoping Gorrin will be a Lia replacement.
Marquee
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I hope we ditch that formation and go back to a standard 4-2-3-1. That way we have more width in attack and don't get overlapped down the wings on defense. I think the only reason Ernie didn't play that formation last year is that we had no one who could play the 2nd DM role in it and no one who was suited to being a lone striker. I'm hoping Gorrin slots into the DM role besides Riera and we sign a striker to play at the pointy end. Between Kenny, Boyd, Krishna, Brockie, and Fenton we've got enough cover for the wings.
Marquee
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over 17 years
MetalLegNZ wrote:

More a reference to the fact the club supports players who work for each other and doesn't like tall poppy types.

I'm all for this - a poisoned changing room is good for no one.

Ricki had his faults - but establishing a strong and positive team culture he got right.


This is such a myth. This great team culture hasn't helped much over the past two years. Ricki produced an excellent team, winning teams have good culture not the other way around.
Listen here Fudgeface
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15K
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over 14 years

Correct, but on the flip side, awful team culture CAN cause poor results. It's not so much about having a good culture to get good results, its about making sure we don't have a shit culture which Carlos threatened to induce.

Still Believin'
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over 17 years

A good culture isn't the only factor in creating a winning team, but it's definitively a factor.

No coach goes into a dressing room with a good culture thinking "I need to fuck this up".


LG
Legend
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24K
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about 17 years

Let's sign Frank Lampard, this world cup will be his last. He'd have to take a 99% drop in wages but I dont mind. Still fairly fit.

;)

Legend
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almost 16 years
Trialist
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over 10 years
paulm wrote:

Having a defensive line play consistently together is a huge advantage though, don't forget that.

How many fullbacks did we go through?

Same goes in the defensive midfield role - with Riera we ran a much tighter ship, once he got injured all hell broke loose. 


Gone through alot of fullbacks that's true. But We still conceded 49 last season and 51 this season. I'd much rather see us get in a centre back. I think boxall is quality however, and if he prefers to play as a centre back he should do. Doesn't Help that Lia doesn't know what he's doing, which got ruthlessly exposed as soon as Riera was injured.


Not sold on Fenton being a fullback - Always belived his best attribute was his dribbling, feel he'd be more effective as winger. But seeing as we have a few attacking players now if he's happy playing as a fullback then thats ok.


I don't feel Brockie should be starting. Yes two seasons ago he scored 16, but his lack of movement was an issue that was exposed this season. 42 games for the All whites and counting says it all. Boyd impressed me this season. Yes he made a few mistakes but remember he's not even 20 yet. He's fast, works hard and is good on the ball - felt he could make things happen. 

Lawyerish
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I think we can over think this no cock policy. Suggest everyone looks within their work place, do we like everyone there we work with? Is everyone happy as larry with their work mates? Yes, Carlos may have had a moan once in a while about being substituted but I don't actually mind that show of passion, as it demonstrates he cares. Yes, he may have had a moan that his club did not sort out the visas for his family and no doubt he expressed his frustrations to his team mates but you will likely find that the majority agreed with him. A team can handle one cock collectively. Where they will struggle is if they have two of them at loggerheads. That friction can ruin a team and any business. Saying all that I don't actually believe Carlos warrants the cock title. Passionate - yes, different - yes, frustrating at times but not a cock.


Marquee
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over 17 years
patrick478 wrote:

Correct, but on the flip side, awful team culture CAN cause poor results. It's not so much about having a good culture to get good results, its about making sure we don't have a shit culture which Carlos threatened to induce.


If team spirit was that important they wouldn't have wanted to keep Carlos (which Merrick has said they did)! 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2292434/Team-spirit-compared-actual-talent--Martin-Samuel.html


I tell you what though, makes the off season a lot more exciting!

Marquee
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about 13 years

Never admit failure find a way to look good. 

RR
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Bossi Insider
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34K
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about 16 years
I hope we ditch that formation and go back to a standard 4-2-3-1. That way we have more width in attack and don't get overlapped down the wings on defense. I think the only reason Ernie didn't play that formation last year is that we had no one who could play the 2nd DM role in it and no one who was suited to being a lone striker. I'm hoping Gorrin slots into the DM role besides Riera and we sign a striker to play at the pointy end. Between Kenny, Boyd, Krishna, Brockie, and Fenton we've got enough cover for the wings.
Ernie didn't play with width at the Victory, so can't see him doing the same here. I thought the formation was very fluid and was really effective with Riera, it was some of the best football we have played.
Marquee
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almost 13 years

We definitely played some really nice football with Riera in that formation, I just think that 4-2-3-1 allows a lot more flexibility. You can easily make it more of a 4-3-3 if you need to chase the game or a 4-5-1 if you're defending a lead. If the full backs push forward the 2 DMs can cover the space. The wide attacking players can tuck in to give more options in the middleof the park or drift wide to stretch the opposition, and on defense if the oppositionfullbacks overlap you'vegot an extra wide player to mark them. I just think it just gives you more options to adapt to the game and play a mobile fluid style than the 4-3-1-2/4-1-2-1-2 we were playing.

Marquee
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about 17 years

http://www.football365.com/premier-league/9310722/Transfer-news-Joe-Cole-has-left-West-Ham-and-plans-to-find-new-club

"At this stage of my career, finances are not important for me. I want to enjoy my football, I want to compete and I just want to play more."

Work those new West Ham contacts Ernie.

valeo
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Legend
4.7K
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18K
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over 17 years

Not a bad shout actually - bit similar to the position Ifill was in when he came here. (both promising players who never really reached their peak because a string of bad injuries, on the outers, has tried his luck at a bunch of English clubs and may want a change)

Groundskeeper Willie
700
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over 16 years

He's a bit 'special' isn't he?

Marquee
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about 17 years
valeo wrote:

Not a bad shout actually - bit similar to the position Ifill was in when he came here. (both promising players who never really reached their peak because a string of bad injuries, on the outers, has tried his luck at a bunch of English clubs and may want a change)



Think he'd get snapped up by MLS first, a faintly obscure league with oil wealth second, if he did get over here it would be one of the "better funded" clubs of the Ah league.


Marquee
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about 12 years

China - money coming out their ....

valeo
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Legend
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18K
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over 17 years

Probably true, seems a bit of a high maintenance player at times. Still, nice to dream.

Marquee
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about 17 years
I hope we ditch that formation and go back to a standard 4-2-3-1. That way we have more width in attack and don't get overlapped down the wings on defense. I think the only reason Ernie didn't play that formation last year is that we had no one who could play the 2nd DM role in it and no one who was suited to being a lone striker. I'm hoping Gorrin slots into the DM role besides Riera and we sign a striker to play at the pointy end. Between Kenny, Boyd, Krishna, Brockie, and Fenton we've got enough cover for the wings.
Ernie didn't play with width at the Victory, so can't see him doing the same here. I thought the formation was very fluid and was really effective with Riera, it was some of the best football we have played.
With RR on this:
Marquee
5.3K
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9.5K
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almost 13 years
Bullion wrote:
I hope we ditch that formation and go back to a standard 4-2-3-1. That way we have more width in attack and don't get overlapped down the wings on defense. I think the only reason Ernie didn't play that formation last year is that we had no one who could play the 2nd DM role in it and no one who was suited to being a lone striker. I'm hoping Gorrin slots into the DM role besides Riera and we sign a striker to play at the pointy end. Between Kenny, Boyd, Krishna, Brockie, and Fenton we've got enough cover for the wings.
Ernie didn't play with width at the Victory, so can't see him doing the same here. I thought the formation was very fluid and was really effective with Riera, it was some of the best football we have played.

With RR on this:

http://leopoldmethod.com.au/wellington-5-0-melbourne-victory/

But by the end of the season that same approach saw us receive a string of heavy defeats. Yes, injuries and suspensions were the main reason for that but I also think that other teams worked out how to counter it - by defending narrow, drawing our fullbacks further up the pitch and counterattacking at speed. That Victory game might have even been the catalyst for teams to study us more and think about how to deal with our approach.

 

No doubt that formation was the best way to play with the players available at the time, but will it still be next year? And if you're planning an approach for next year now, do you want to build a team with those tactics in mind or do you want to try to implement a new tactical plan and recruit players for it? And in terms of fluidity and adaptability, I think 4-2-3-1 is the way to go, which is largely the reason why it has become the dominant formation in global football in recent years - because it is an inherently flexible approach built around a solid core of 4 players - the CBs and DMs. If those players can provide a defensive cover and retain possession effectively the rest of the team can be very flexible in their shape and roles. For me the 4-3-1-2 is more limiting on the team.

 

Starting XI
290
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4.7K
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over 17 years

A striker and a no 10, one visa spot available, have to do better than Carlos and Stein

Looking forward to this

Legend
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15K
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over 17 years
james dean wrote:
patrick478 wrote:

Correct, but on the flip side, awful team culture CAN cause poor results. It's not so much about having a good culture to get good results, its about making sure we don't have a shit culture which Carlos threatened to induce.


If team spirit was that important they wouldn't have wanted to keep Carlos (which Merrick has said they did)! 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2292434/Team-spirit-compared-actual-talent--Martin-Samuel.html


I tell you what though, makes the off season a lot more exciting!


Some fair points in there but explain the difference between ManU this season and last? And Liverpool this season and last?

Much the same teams as last season but a very different culture in both dressing rooms, and winning wasn't the trigger - ManU were awful from day one off the back of a winning season, Liverpool were excellent from day one off the back of a not-so-good season.


tradition and history
1.5K
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over 17 years
paulm wrote:
james dean wrote:
patrick478 wrote:

Correct, but on the flip side, awful team culture CAN cause poor results. It's not so much about having a good culture to get good results, its about making sure we don't have a shit culture which Carlos threatened to induce.


If team spirit was that important they wouldn't have wanted to keep Carlos (which Merrick has said they did)! 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2292434/Team-spirit-compared-actual-talent--Martin-Samuel.html


I tell you what though, makes the off season a lot more exciting!


Some fair points in there but explain the difference between ManU this season and last? And Liverpool this season and last?

Much the same teams as last season but a very different culture in both dressing rooms, and winning wasn't the trigger - ManU were awful from day one off the back of a winning season, Liverpool were excellent from day one off the back of a not-so-good season.




You are the expert. Don't keep us in suspense. What is the difference between Man U and Liverpool this season and last?
Legend
3.7K
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15K
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over 17 years

Read the post you quoted Einstein.

Marquee
2.1K
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8.2K
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over 17 years
paulm wrote:
james dean wrote:
patrick478 wrote:

Correct, but on the flip side, awful team culture CAN cause poor results. It's not so much about having a good culture to get good results, its about making sure we don't have a shit culture which Carlos threatened to induce.


If team spirit was that important they wouldn't have wanted to keep Carlos (which Merrick has said they did)! 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2292434/Team-spirit-compared-actual-talent--Martin-Samuel.html


I tell you what though, makes the off season a lot more exciting!


Some fair points in there but explain the difference between ManU this season and last? And Liverpool this season and last?

Much the same teams as last season but a very different culture in both dressing rooms, and winning wasn't the trigger - ManU were awful from day one off the back of a winning season, Liverpool were excellent from day one off the back of a not-so-good season.



Coaching?
Legend
3.7K
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15K
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over 17 years

If 10 sides have equal talent and equal coaching, someone has to win. Surely team culture would make the difference in that instance?

You may have a point on coaching with Moyes vs Fergie, but I just can't accept that team culture cannot breed winning. 



Marquee
2.1K
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8.2K
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over 17 years
Bullion wrote:
I hope we ditch that formation and go back to a standard 4-2-3-1. That way we have more width in attack and don't get overlapped down the wings on defense. I think the only reason Ernie didn't play that formation last year is that we had no one who could play the 2nd DM role in it and no one who was suited to being a lone striker. I'm hoping Gorrin slots into the DM role besides Riera and we sign a striker to play at the pointy end. Between Kenny, Boyd, Krishna, Brockie, and Fenton we've got enough cover for the wings.
Ernie didn't play with width at the Victory, so can't see him doing the same here. I thought the formation was very fluid and was really effective with Riera, it was some of the best football we have played.

With RR on this:

http://leopoldmethod.com.au/wellington-5-0-melbourne-victory/

But by the end of the season that same approach saw us receive a string of heavy defeats. Yes, injuries and suspensions were the main reason for that but I also think that other teams worked out how to counter it - by defending narrow, drawing our fullbacks further up the pitch and counterattacking at speed. That Victory game might have even been the catalyst for teams to study us more and think about how to deal with our approach.

 

No doubt that formation was the best way to play with the players available at the time, but will it still be next year? And if you're planning an approach for next year now, do you want to build a team with those tactics in mind or do you want to try to implement a new tactical plan and recruit players for it? And in terms of fluidity and adaptability, I think 4-2-3-1 is the way to go, which is largely the reason why it has become the dominant formation in global football in recent years - because it is an inherently flexible approach built around a solid core of 4 players - the CBs and DMs. If those players can provide a defensive cover and retain possession effectively the rest of the team can be very flexible in their shape and roles. For me the 4-3-1-2 is more limiting on the team.

 


I think there were 2 problems with how we played it at the end of the season.  We kept our fullbacks high, even thought neither were really contributing in attack, and we started giving the ball away a lot more.  Teams just sat back, waited for us to make a mistake and then attacked the spaces behind our fullbacks.  Lia wasn't mobile enough to close down those spaces and we just got killed time and time again.  Plus we completely stopped pressing high so when we lost the ball it was basically a free opportunity to attack
Marquee
4.5K
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6.8K
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about 14 years
hlmphil wrote:
Mainland FC wrote:

TETL

(too early to tell)

Wouldn't that be TETT?


I amazed anyone noticed :-)
Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
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15K
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over 14 years

McKain gone from Adelaide. Anyone else think that a second stint at the Nix alongside Riera in the midfield would work? Or are the two of them too similar?

Marquee
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over 17 years
patrick478 wrote:

McKain gone from Adelaide. Anyone else think that a second stint at the Nix alongside Riera in the midfield would work? Or are the two of them too similar?


I wouldn't play him in midfield but I would definitely be looking at getting him over as a third CB - he's quality
Head Sleuth
3K
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19K
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over 17 years

Samaras wouldn't fit ernies style of play I suspect. 

Lita would be good. 

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