Wellington Phoenix Men

A-League Expansion (including the Pacific)

100 replies · 1,797 views
almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Wibblebutt wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
Wibblebutt wrote:
They actually have a team in the Malaysian Super League now too, Duli Pengiran Muda Mahkota Football Club (DPMM FC) who finished third in the 2006/07 season. So there is potential there for perhaps another club to join the A-League but it's surely just a pipe-dream.

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You are correct there. That is a reasonably new development, financed by Prince Billah... shouldn't be lacking in money.

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I don't think they would fit with the A-League, although I'd love to see the Nix have a go at them!
Why would people in Brunei be interested in having a team in a domestic competition of a country that miles away from them when they can have a team/s in a country much closer to them with which they have closer economic and cultural ties? It just makes no sense at all.

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Yeah that's what I mean when I say they wouldn't fit with the A-League. Many of the options discussed have been from leftfield in this thread.. Realistically expansion teams are going to come from Aus, maybe another from NZ at some stage and POSSIBLY an Oceania team. Suggestions of Asian teams are far fetched. They already have established leagues, and are more culturally and economically connected.


Thank you for that dose of reality that was sorely needed.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
There will be an A-League team based in Greymouth before there is one from PNG.
 
The only way an Oceania side could remotely work would be if it played all it's home games in Noumea and free to air coverage in other interested island nations (to get the viewership necessary to attract sponsorship).
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
to be honest i really doubt another kiwi team i would love it but it wont happen maybe a lot later down the track a lot later when their is 2 levels of football the a league and the championship or something. the pacific team is very unrealistic as in a nightmare to get running but i think the a league would much rather have an islanders team over another kiwi team
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Everyone can in the north island can travel to Wellington to support the Wellington Phoenix including Aucklanders. However it will always be an very small crowd that can ever really leave the South Island to support the Wellington club. So there is is plenty of scope for a NZ team based in Christchurch to play in the A-league. Basically by Australia population to the number of team ratio for the A-league, a 4 million New Zealand population is easily caters for two and a half team to achieve the same level of participation as the Australian teams and that doesn't change much whether it is 8 teams or 18 teams, we float from 2.4 to 2.8 teams as a ratio. I love to have three A-League teams representing South Central and Northern regions.

The only way we would really get the Wellington Phoenix to play their league games in the South Island, is to have a Canterbury A-league representative.

As for the Pacific Island team, you have the highest mixed polynesian population in Auckland. With more than half the squad being PIs and the rest can be kiwis, then you have a very good home base in Auckland. I guess the key is the where they should be based, but if you have the preseason games among the islands with cup tournaments games and have the league games in Auckland. You should get some consistency. For cup games, for the players to arrive in one of the islands, they are welcomed as if it was home so it would not be a problem because of the great welcome committee will prepare them even better than Auckland. However for the in and out every week league games, a regular home ground is important. In cup games, there is very little between home and away location because it will always feel like a one-game regardless of location and players always rev themselves up for that game. Time and preparation can be easily sorted with the right management.

However I don't have a problem if Noumea is where it is be based, if it would be easier.

Anyway, we all know that the NZ football public is very cynical to any ideas to restructuring system because we fight over trivial things and moan too much for our own good. We lack optimism in this country this is what kills everything. We have no vision. All we need is some business optimism and most things will be successful. There is potentially more money in Association football than Rugby football and it is not dependent on national FIFA rankings. When one rich business click on this, the better we be. We need to fuel our optimism and spark that interest. Just look at with Terry did with the phoenix. The people are there, the money is there, the business is there. I see heaps of money earning potential for the rich to get richer. Association football is a sleeping sport giant. I really believe that in my lifetime, that Association Football will become the number one main contender over Rugby Football. Just look at what happening in Australia, this will eventually happen to NZ.

Whatever is the case, for a second NZ team or an Oceania team to enter the A-league, we should get in behind it, rather than being cynic about. If they are functioning well in the first season. The potential of the oceania team is even greater than NZ because of the larger supporting numbers. That oceania team will be having a sizeable gate takings at the games and have a greater memorabilia item sold than we should have. Just look at the reception that Ben Totori got when Waitakere Untied visited the islands for the O-league. It was huge.

We just need to believe . . .
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[QUOTE=
 

Anyway, we all know that the NZ football public is very cynical to any ideas to restructuring system because we fight over trivial things and moan too much for our own good. We lack optimism in this country this is what kills everything. We have no vision. All we need is some business optimism and most things will be successful. There is potentially more money in Association football than Rugby football and it is not dependent on national FIFA rankings. When one rich business click on this, the better we be. We need to fuel our optimism and spark that interest. Just look at with Terry did with the phoenix. The people are there, the money is there, the business is there. I see heaps of money earning potential for the rich to get richer. Association football is a sleeping sport giant. I really believe that in my lifetime, that Association Football will become the number one main contender over Rugby Football. Just look at what happening in Australia, this will eventually happen to NZ.

We just need to believe . . .[/QUOTE]
 
 
 
Right on brother....you tell them how it is.
 Actually NZ does produce positive people with drive and vision...its just most of them move to Australia.
 
What has happened with the Phoenix in one short year is nothing short of phenominal!!! All it takes is a few people with an idea, throw in someone like Terry S and the public gets right behind it all. There is absolutely every chance of the Phoenix model working in Christchurch and Auckland and the islands. It will take time, it just needs positive and optimistic people to get it right.
 
 
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ronaldunno wrote:
 Actually NZ does produce positive people with drive and vision...its just most of them move to Australia.
 


Fixed
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
http://www.smh.com.au/news/a-league/test-match-for-south-coast-bidders/2008/08/01/1217097531349.html

AN ILLAWARRA consortium bidding for an A-League franchise tonight face their biggest litmus test so far when they play host to a Pre-season Cup match at WIN Stadium between Sydney FC and Wellington Phoenix.

While the result of the match won't be of overwhelming importance, all eyes will be on the crowd. If the beachfront arena can host a big turnout, it will send a message to Football Federation Australia about the claims of a NSW South Coast team.

South Coast Football has not only lodged submissions for entry into the A-League for the 2009-10 season, but they have also made a statement of intent by applying for entry into the inaugural National Youth League
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Basically by Australia population to the number of team ratio for the A-league, a 4 million New Zealand population is easily caters for two and a half team to achieve the same level of participation as the Australian teams and that doesn't change much whether it is 8 teams or 18 teams, we float from 2.4 to 2.8 teams as a ratio. .
 
Uou can't just assume that people will support nz teams that aint from there city
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well I think the Phoenix has proved we can...
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Realistically, the most the A-League can look to expand to is 16 teams, each playing home and away for a 30 game season. Promotion/relegation won't work for what is still a 'minority sport' in the region. People simply won't pay to watch second division matches, and it will go broke.

Of the 8 teams to be added, at most one will not be Australian. Although it is more likely to be none. Teams that will be added: GC, Townsville, second teams in Sydney and Melbourne/Victoria, Wollongong, Canberra and Tasmania. Which covers all the main population centres in Australia.

The 16th team will then be any of: Auckland, Christchurch, combined PI team, Sunshine Coast or a 3rd Victorian team. If we want it to be another NZ team, then we need to do what Sydney did and play pre-season in AK or ChCh so the locals can show their support.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:

As I said above, why would any aussie or NZ player go and play in Nandi, or anywhere else in the pacific for that matter, when they coul;d live in Sydney or Melbourne? They already have a hard time gettign people out to Perth.


Opax, I just don't think that format could ever run in a football league. But it is only a dream as you say



I'm with JD on this. To introduce a Pacific team into the competition cold would be difficult. Like the Phoenix, they probably would need some established A-League players to make them competitive, and players might not be not so keen on living away from home and family. Big $$$ might tempt them, but there's a salary cap to consider.

The A-league wants to expand, FIFA wants to bring in promotion relegation. There are already bids lining up all over Aus to get in. As we've discussed in other threads, the FFA is about developing football in Australia, not NZ or Oceania (even less so now they're in Asia).

The most practical immediate move the FFA could make in terms of helping out Oceania would to be class Aus/NZ/Pacific Island players as domestic for all 8 A-League franchises. This opens doors for Oceania players, buys votes for the WC bid, and gives a larger player base for the expansion Ausralian franchises to choose from.


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Give credit where it's due - Oceania wants to sink visa rule!!

THE Oceania Football Confederation wants Football Federation Australia to relax visa restrictions on Pacific Island players as a precursor to organising its own team in the A-League.

As the FFA starts laying the foundations for expanding the eight-team competition by up to six teams, the OFC hasn't forgotten chairman Frank Lowy's invitation to bid for an A-League licence when he attended a charity match in Noumea two months ago. The OFC is likely to take the process a step further by setting up a steering committee at its next board meeting in early October. Pacific Pride FC is believed to be the working title of the proposed franchise.

While the FFA has made clear its priority is to find new Australian-based teams, the OFC is happy to adopt a patient approach to joining the competition. Part of the reason is the confederation's own future within FIFA remains in a permanent state of uncertainty - a situation underlined by FIFA president Sepp Blatter when he visited Sydney in late May.

"We do need to look at the structures of FIFA, but it's not only Oceania because there are also terrible discrepancies [scorelines] in other confederations," Blatter said at the time. "We have to tackle this issue eventually, but not for the time being. We cannot do it."

In the meantime, the 11-nation OFC continues to focus heavily on player development, but the confederation believes it is being hindered by the lack of opportunities in the region's only professional competition.

While there were a smattering of Polynesian and Melanesian players in the old NSL, there are no islanders in the A-League - not even at Wellington Phoenix, which is within the OFC's borders. When the FFA left Oceania to join Asia two years ago, it signed a Co-Operation Agreement with the OFC, and as part of that arrangement the OFC wants its players exempt from the A-League's four-import quota.

"Eventually we would like to have our own franchise in Oceania, but for the time being we need to get our players competing at a higher level," OFC general secretary Tai Nicholas said. "We've started talking to the FFA about it, and we're hopeful they'll change the rules and put Oceania players in a special category. Let's face it, when you're competing with players from Europe and South America for an import spot, it doesn't make it easy. We believe there are at least six or seven players good enough for the A-League, but they're not getting an opportunity."

The OFC has an unlikely ally in Gold Coast United coach Miron Bleiberg, who is keen to have a sprinkling of Oceania players in his squad when the club joins the A-League next year.

"If there was any type of concessions, I would be more than happy to have some of them because they bring something different to the table, they're the type of players who excite the crowd," Bleiberg said.

"But if they count as a visa player, because of their lack of experience at a high level, because they lack tactical knowledge, it prevents you from taking them. I would like us to give them a chance. As good neighbours and because we used to be part of the OFC, I think we owe it to them to help."

Ultimately, the OFC would have its destiny in its own hands if it creates an A-League franchise, and Nicholas insists it's not a pipedream. Using the OFC headquarters in Auckland as a base, the team would play games next door at Mount Smart Stadium, and take some fixtures to upgraded stadiums in Ba (Fiji), Honiara (Solomon Islands), Port Moresby (PNG) and Noumea (New Caledonia)

"We're an organisation which represents 11 million people, and we have almost one million registered players. That's a solid foundation," Nicholas said.



Give credit where it's due - Ocerania wants to sink visa rule.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Why The f**k Would A Pacific Team Be Able To Compete In The A League They Would Be Killed By Teams Like Melbourne And Sydney Hope The FFA Do Not Go Ahead With This
The Only Good Thing about it is it may let you phoenix folk win more than what you have this season
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nick B wrote:
Why The f**k Would A Pacific Team Be Able To Compete In The A League They Would Be Killed By Teams Like Melbourne And Sydney Hope The FFA Do Not Go Ahead With This
The Only Good Thing about it is it may let you phoenix folk win more than what you have this season


Yes we are strange country folk out here in New Zealand. However we do have this funny custom of not capitalising every first letter of every word.... You should try it sometime.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nick B wrote:
Why The f**k Would A Pacific Team Be Able To Compete In The A League They Would Be Killed By Teams Like Melbourne And Sydney Hope The FFA Do Not Go Ahead With This
The Only Good Thing about it is it may let you phoenix folk win more than what you have this season
 
Doesn't it take you a long time to type each word with a capital letter?
 
How about ordinary tasks like spelling, tying your shoe laces etc??  It must all be a struggle

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Some of you boys are obviously young and still at school and uni. There will be no pacific a league team or team from Christchurch LOL!
 
The only possibility, and its a remote one, of another a league team in NZ is if it is in Auckland. The only chance of that happening is if another Terry S comes along in Auckland and bank rolls it. As with all things in life football essentially comes down to money, it did with the Kingz and the Knights and it will with the Phoenix.
 
Any team in the world that tries to survive on gate takings alone will fail to be able to afford to stay in the competition for long. Show me one EPL or SPL team who survives solely on gate takings and wins things.
 
The A league will establish it self and I have no doubt the Phoenix will remain a part of it with good seasons and bad. The Phoenix will sell any good players they have (just like every other a league team will) and sgn returning aussies or kiwis or youngsters or players who are not good enough to make it in europe.
 
That doesn't mean we won't support them, but they need to be looked at in terms of who they are and where they are.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nick B wrote:
Why The f**k Would A Pacific Team Be Able To Compete In The A League They Would Be Killed By Teams Like Melbourne And Sydney Hope The FFA Do Not Go Ahead With This
The Only Good Thing about it is it may let you phoenix folk win more than what you have this season


He started to type normally after The Only Good Thing.....is that b/c he wanted to subtly show his disdain for the 'phoenix'? Or was the cold of Antarctica making it hard for him to move his fingers to the shift key?

And we can only assume his full stop was a casualty of frostbite.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well we do know that most 'journalists' are turning to this website for research.




Proof they don't know the meaning of the word 'reliable'.'
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It would be cool if there was an a-league based in duneidun or something. tons of phoenix fans would travel down to see them play at carisbrook and there would be a massive rivilry between us and them.
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