Australia Cup vs Heidelberg United | Tue 19th Aug | 9:30pm | YouTube

What were the 2 or 3 big chances we had in the first half... I watched the game, but don't recall going, we really should have scored there... and the fact that we had no shots on target in the first half also has me scratching my head.

I'd rather he go, we were pants, I told the lads it wasn't good enough and I promise everyone reading this, we will go back to work tomorrow determined to improve. 

reg22

A cool and fascinating thing about what we are currently experiencing, and seemingly will continue to experience, is the opportunities for the numerous young guys in our team. The abundance of opportunities that they are being handed is fairly unique.

At this point, most of them are still learning the game. I get the feeling that a huge emphasis is on learning how to play a role, as opposed to the emphasis being on being expected to excel at a role. If we're going to be successful, the players need to take responsibility for outcomes and not rely on the system to do this for them.

No doubt, the learning environment isn't ideal. But we should have a few decent players come out of this eventually.

Thing that worries me is will we though get some decent players out of it or are they just learning a bunch of bad habits. Feel for some of the young guys because i think they have been promoted to early and with whats happening its really affecting their development

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

Smeltz4PM

We had some pretty awful individual performances last night. I'd say Armiento's cameo was among the poorest showings I've seen in a while.
Ultimately though so much of it has to fall on chiefy. Trying to employ a half arsed high press when the players don't understand where or when to press and clearly aren't conditioned to do so against a side deep into their season.

Someone questioned how many of our XI would make a heidelberg starting side and it's unfortunately quite apparent that there wouldn't be a heap on this form. You take the experienced guys like Rufer and even Retre out and you quickly realise how many are pretty much passengers at the moment

Armiento was bad but Tim Payne was worse by miles - his attitude seemed off which was a real concern. He's miles off starting at RB vs Australia in a few weeks. 

But for Payne, Armiento, Eze ... it's even earlier in preseason for them.

This will be an unpopular opinion here but I thought Retre was busy and decent last night, after looking well short of a gallop against Perth (post wedding etc). Payne, Armiento, Eze (?) may similarly improve as they get more condition. We can only hope...

I still can't fathom why Italiano didn't make the subs at half-time? Baffling.

ballane

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

ballane

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

The stark reality is that the majority of the kids were promoted far too soon. With all of our successful sales (Paulsen, Surman, Cacace and Old) they spent the full u20 cycle at the Academy. They may have trained from time to time with the first team but only got their pro deals at the end of their u20 year. First year out got minutes off the bench and then bossed it the year after. Bottom line with the current youngsters is that they will in most instances leave on a free as they do not in the main have long contracts, they are not developing, they will get limited/no game time. No clubs will pay decent money for them on that basis. Spectacular failure in strategy and hopefully someone is held accountable but not holding my breath. 

LT01

Smeltz4PM

The beauty of a relatively short season is the "need more time to gel" comment can be recycled into eternity

Most of the squad is signed now and there is still 2 months to go until the A-League season starts (thank fudge for that). No excuses for not gelling by then.

The excuse will be the upcoming U20 World Cup disrupting the pre-season. 

Since2007

LT01

Smeltz4PM

The beauty of a relatively short season is the "need more time to gel" comment can be recycled into eternity

Most of the squad is signed now and there is still 2 months to go until the A-League season starts (thank fudge for that). No excuses for not gelling by then.

The excuse will be the upcoming U20 World Cup disrupting the pre-season. 

That's when we need the journalists to ask them the hard questions. It's not a valid excuse.

Footballtragic

ballane

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

ballane

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

The stark reality is that the majority of the kids were promoted far too soon. With all of our successful sales (Paulsen, Surman, Cacace and Old) they spent the full u20 cycle at the Academy. They may have trained from time to time with the first team but only got their pro deals at the end of their u20 year. First year out got minutes off the bench and then bossed it the year after. Bottom line with the current youngsters is that they will in most instances leave on a free as they do not in the main have long contracts, they are not developing, they will get limited/no game time. No clubs will pay decent money for them on that basis. Spectacular failure in strategy and hopefully someone is held accountable but not holding my breath. 

that's not quite true. Surman was getting significant minutes at 18, Libby was still at school and starting, Old was also getting minutes as a teen

Bullion

Footballtragic

ballane

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

ballane

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

The stark reality is that the majority of the kids were promoted far too soon. With all of our successful sales (Paulsen, Surman, Cacace and Old) they spent the full u20 cycle at the Academy. They may have trained from time to time with the first team but only got their pro deals at the end of their u20 year. First year out got minutes off the bench and then bossed it the year after. Bottom line with the current youngsters is that they will in most instances leave on a free as they do not in the main have long contracts, they are not developing, they will get limited/no game time. No clubs will pay decent money for them on that basis. Spectacular failure in strategy and hopefully someone is held accountable but not holding my breath. 

that's not quite true. Surman was getting significant minutes at 18, Libby was still at school and starting, Old was also getting minutes as a teen

From memory Surman was a regular starter and the year after hardly got any minutes and played almost exclusively for the Reserves....a sign that he was not quite ready. You could be right about Libby but from memory Old may have got minutes in his teens but would have been very limited. Think we will both agree however that all three of these guys are exceptional players and them playing so young would have been the exception at the time.

I agree with Footballtragic that the exceptional players like Libby stand out quite early and - when managed properly - can keep playing. They are rare.
The previous statement still stands - that this current crop of youngsters is a bit too early in their development to carry the season, without the senior players stepping up.  

Monto

martinb

I mean Heidelberg are part timers…but let’s not kid ourselves about semi-pro teams right? Remember how it worked for some in NZ? 

They’re at the top of the next tier down, in a title dogfight at the end of their season, playing twice a week and definitely at the peak of their powers after beating WSW last week. 

There’s part timers and then there’s a bunch of guys a hop, skip and a jump from being pros. Part timers doesn’t mean a social team. It’s likely their marquee players have ‘coaching’ roles and a bunch of others have flexibility with their employer or are employed in a club related business. 

So what you're saying is... still not full time footballers. 

Really don't get why everone is trying to soften the blow by claiming they are not true part timers.

The point is not what their job status is, it’s how good of a team are they and how prepared for the game were they. 
Very and very well, in my estimation. 

I worry that our answer to the board asking the team to play exciting football is the high press. Its hard enough for Australian teams to keep it up in their summer, let alone a NZ team.

How is everyone? 

Found a card for Lacuna Inc. anyone know anything about that?

Footballtragic

ballane

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

ballane

Mainland FC

Well yes, there is that. But that is the poisoned chalice of developing young guys into saleable assets.  I would suggest it beats being financially broke like WU or (for a long time) the Jets.

Yeah but how many are you likely to be selling if they being promoted into under performing enviroment. Cant expect much for this crop if this continues and that will do nothing for finances.

The stark reality is that the majority of the kids were promoted far too soon. With all of our successful sales (Paulsen, Surman, Cacace and Old) they spent the full u20 cycle at the Academy. They may have trained from time to time with the first team but only got their pro deals at the end of their u20 year. First year out got minutes off the bench and then bossed it the year after. Bottom line with the current youngsters is that they will in most instances leave on a free as they do not in the main have long contracts, they are not developing, they will get limited/no game time. No clubs will pay decent money for them on that basis. Spectacular failure in strategy and hopefully someone is held accountable but not holding my breath. 

Yeah but thats not what happened though they all received the odd game here and there. Surman and Old hardly played their second year certainly less than the year before Old because of injury and Surman just couldnt crack it. Even the year after the club was still looking for a CB but stopped when Surman stepped up. Both Paulsen and Cacace were also just eased in. None of them were asked to carry the responsibility that some of this crop are and certainly not at the same age. Also suggest you check the contracts out many of the current crop of players signed 3 year contracts when they signed dont think you can expect young players to sign longer. 

One thing i dont get is the Welnix guys are mostly successful businessmen. If they had Managers of their businesses consistently turning in bad results and under performing im bloody sure they wouldnt just let things carry on without significant  change.
While the business side of the Nix may be going okay the Football side is badly under achieving and i just dont get why the only significant change has been hiring Bev.
There has to be heaps of pressure being applied to BOTH Chief and GIll to turn an unacceptable start to the season around.
I really fear what attendances will be like if we start the season proper off badly.
That happens and even Derby games and a game in Christchurch wont help.   

Old, Surman, Paulsen were all definitely integrated better with minutes gradually increasing but that was because we had a good amount of local talent that was A-League quality who were older the likes of Lewis, Laws, Ugarkovic, Piscopo, Elliot, Waine, Sotirio and then the imports for the most part were all very good so there wasn't a need to play them out of necessity. 

I think its just an unfortunate consequence of going too hard on only signing academy players where we probably should've targeted some older kiwi players like the ones Auckland picked up. 

wilbaker

Old, Surman, Paulsen were all definitely integrated better with minutes gradually increasing but that was because we had a good amount of local talent that was A-League quality who were older the likes of Lewis, Laws, Ugarkovic, Piscopo, Elliot, Waine, Sotirio and then the imports for the most part were all very good so there wasn't a need to play them out of necessity. 

I think its just an unfortunate consequence of going too hard on only signing academy players where we probably should've targeted some older kiwi players like the ones Auckland picked up. 

In all honesty, it was what everyone pointed out but they club believed that this strategy was the right one. It was plain for everyone to see that we just have too many youngsters and was exacerbated by the poor visas and perma crocks.

If everybody is prepared now to recognise that most of the young players are not good enough or not ready to carry the side, then that is the cause for some hope.

Last season we tried to manage with too many of these young players starting.

This preseason, much the same.

We've looked pretty awful with that reliance on too many of these youngsters thrust into those roles together. Not meaning to blame them and they did as best they could. But they kind of got sent on a suicide mission.

We've looked better preseason with just Retre, Armiento and Eze coming on. Payne is clearly still out of sorts. Rufer is still getting started. Mileuznic yet to be seen. New CB to arrive. Plus potentially another couple of useful squad players.

We won't be the side that has been playing so poorly in the Aus Cup games. Nor the side full of injuries and struggling so badly last year.

How much better we can be is the obvious question.  And what we've seen of a couple of the new players doesn't suggest a revolutionary improvement. But the combination of all the more senior players who are to come and still to get fit may make us competitive enough. The club has said it recognizes the need for a more experienced squad overall and they've shown us they are moving in that direction and have more to come.

I like what I've seen of Loke.  Hughes is not quite the finished product but deserves his place and with good support should do the job and continue to get better. LBS should continue to improve and get time.  The other younger players, not so much significant time, thanks.  We need the senior players stepping in, staying fit and some of the new guys doing more than we've seen so far.
 
But, hopefully, a bit early yet to write us off as wooden spooners.

Chief got lucky with a whole bunch of euro quality players he inherited. Players who could pull a rabbit out of the hat and just win. Players like Surman, kraev, zawada and old.  It's clear that he is desperate to try and luck into the next old and Surman because his recruitment is piss poor and his tactics don't work. Maybe punting on youth and some good luck will save him. He is probably finding out now that his plan is failing.

I also want to add that Payne's attitude and a lack of real drive on the pitch show that the issues in the dressing room were probably not solved.

So Chief is the Nix Ranieri? 

Payne’s issues might be a new baby! It does make playing on a rainy night across the Tasman seem different I’d imagine…

And yes, I’m a fan of Loke (pronounced like oak?). He seems like one of those guys you’d want on your team. 

martinb

So Chief is the Nix Ranieri? 

Payne’s issues might be a new baby! It does make playing on a rainy night across the Tasman seem different I’d imagine…

And yes, I’m a fan of Loke (pronounced like oak?). He seems like one of those guys you’d want on your team. 

Ranieri won a title.

Since2007

LT01

Smeltz4PM

The beauty of a relatively short season is the "need more time to gel" comment can be recycled into eternity

Most of the squad is signed now and there is still 2 months to go until the A-League season starts (thank fudge for that). No excuses for not gelling by then.

The excuse will be the upcoming U20 World Cup disrupting the pre-season. 

He won't be able to use that one.

In his onfield interview after the last game of last season (I think it was the last game?) Chiefy mentioned that without the Olympics and Nations Cup, this preseason wouldn't be disrupted like the previous one was. 

And he knew full well the u20 World Cup was coming up yet didn't think it would be disruptive to the preseason back then, so it will be a bit hard for him to successfully use that excuse 

I like watching Sheridan play. Decisive, very few errors.

One thing that bugs me is the lack of ambition. The Australia Cup is probably our best opportunity to win something or at least make a final.
The club kind of gives out the vibe that its only a preseason hit out and a good place to give the kids some match time. Dont we want to win something?
As someone pointed out why not start your best most experianced side against the Bergers. If we had the lead at half time then gradually ease in some of the kids and Rufer to shut up shop.
We now miss out on a high profile prestigious semi. Ok, we would have been underdogs but in knock out football anything can happen.
Now we have had this fiasco and the whole vibe has changed.....who's running this club?

There is either a massive lack of ambition or a massive lack of competence. The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League. Something big needs to change. 

Marto

Nixieboys222

Hate to be so negative early, but eze looks shark… got beaten twice,poor first touch, oh boy

Unlike others here, I've not had on Rose tinted glasses with this dude. I think he's a dud and only time will prove if I'm wrong.

Well you did say more than once Wootton would be a dud, and that Ryan Thomas should just give up on football. So uneasily for the Nix, you are due.

Thankfully didn't see the game. Time to bring back the Wairarapa United pre season fixture to get some confidence back.

imanixsupporter

There is either a massive lack of ambition or a massive lack of competence. The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League. Something big needs to change. 

"The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League."
No, they're not.

From Wikipedia, on "Defeats": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League_Men_records_and_statistics

Mainland FC

imanixsupporter

There is either a massive lack of ambition or a massive lack of competence. The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League. Something big needs to change. 

"The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League."
No, they're not.

From Wikipedia, on "Defeats": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League_Men_records_and_statistics

• Most defeats in total: 208, Central Coast Mariners
• Most defeats in a season: 20, Central Coast Mariners (2015–16 & 2018–19)
• Most home defeats in a season: 9, North Queensland Fury (2010–11)
• Most away defeats in a season: 12, Melbourne City (2012–13)

Central Coast also have 3 championships and 3 premierships.

inning isn't everything.

Nix have now lost the most cup games to non A league teams (4), and the next most is 2. We also now have the record of having the heaviest loss vs a non a league team in this cup.. A record breaking team! 

Mainland FC

imanixsupporter

There is either a massive lack of ambition or a massive lack of competence. The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League. Something big needs to change. 

"The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League."
No, they're not.

reg22

nufc_nz

Get Greenie in now ffs.

It wouldn't be fair on Greenie. No pre-season, and the team not functioning. He'd be set up to fail.

Any coach coming in would need to do so with a high degreee of understanding from the club and fans.

Greeny's also about to head off to the U20 WC for 3-4 weeks. Regardless of pre season, Chiefy gets the 7-8 ALM games up to Christmas to show the team won't be mud for consecutive seasons.

But if you believe what Dome was saying when Chiefy was re-signed, Welnix won't be happy with another shark season. Even the ALW team smashing it, won't be enough of a distration. They will act & Giancarlo yes could be gone before 2026 starts.

  Four cupsets is a very small number spread over a fairly long period, so I am not worried about it. And it can easily change. Someone will get up to three cupsets eventually.
I am more peeved at us not having won anything in the ALM ever, as the timespan is quite large (we are one of the foundation clubs).

Nixieboys222

Nix have now lost the most cup games to non A league teams (4), and the next most is 2. We also now have the record of having the heaviest loss vs a non a league team in this cup.. A record breaking team! 

Mainland FC

imanixsupporter

There is either a massive lack of ambition or a massive lack of competence. The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League. Something big needs to change. 

"The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League."
No, they're not.

I didnt say we have lost the most games, I said we are the biggest losers. Cometh the hour cometh the man and the Nix will show you their true colours on all the big occasions. We are on a preposterously long run of losing every finals game (or tie, in the case of the two legged one against Victory) we play. Has any team got a lower winning percentage in finals than us? Not only do we have no trophies (when every other club has at least one) but no finals reached either. Closest thing to a final we have played in was the last Mariners game in 2023-2024 (which we lost). 100% losing record in derbies. 

Yes there is also the most lost games in "cupsets" too but I think that one is a little unfair to point out, we have been uniquely disadvantaged for a long time in the Cup having to always play away and travel far against lower tier Australian sides, you would statistically expect us to have suffered the most cupsets. 

austin111

One thing that bugs me is the lack of ambition. The Australia Cup is probably our best opportunity to win something or at least make a final.
The club kind of gives out the vibe that its only a preseason hit out and a good place to give the kids some match time. Dont we want to win something?
As someone pointed out why not start your best most experianced side against the Bergers. If we had the lead at half time then gradually ease in some of the kids and Rufer to shut up shop.
We now miss out on a high profile prestigious semi. Ok, we would have been underdogs but in knock out football anything can happen.
Now we have had this fiasco and the whole vibe has changed.....who's running this club?

 Tbf Retre was probably the only one on the bench fit enough to start the game, Eze had only played 15 mins, Armiento 30 and Rufer 0. LBS probably should've started over GSR tho.

Not the old “we dominated large parts of the game” and “didn’t take our chances” from Cheify 

Whose starting the bingo card?

their CB was an engineer by day.

Someone else said it.

A league wages have reduced. Now a development league with CCM and Nix operating models. Gap to NPL is marginal.

NPL guys are men not boys.

If you have a brain and can earn $150k - $200k as an engineer including part time payments why play professionally for half that amount if you are older than 23. 

M

martinb

I mean Heidelberg are part timers…but let’s not kid ourselves about semi-pro teams right? Remember how it worked for some in NZ? 

They’re at the top of the next tier down, in a title dogfight at the end of their season, playing twice a week and definitely at the peak of their powers after beating WSW last week. 

There’s part timers and then there’s a bunch of guys a hop, skip and a jump from being pros. Part timers doesn’t mean a social team. It’s likely their marquee players have ‘coaching’ roles and a bunch of others have flexibility with their employer or are employed in a club related business. 

Nixieboys222

Nix have now lost the most cup games to non A league teams (4), and the next most is 2. We also now have the record of having the heaviest loss vs a non a league team in this cup.. A record breaking team! 

Mainland FC

imanixsupporter

There is either a massive lack of ambition or a massive lack of competence. The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League. Something big needs to change. 

"The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League."
No, they're not.

Nobody cares about the cup. Like yes it's silverware but that's about it. Even less people care we've lost the most to NPL teams. 

I would rather beat AFC 2/3 times this season than win the cup. Hell id rather beat AFC 3/3 times this season than us be premiers. 

The only concern I really have about this result is that we're going to lose another 3 times to AFC this season.

anaveragestem

Nixieboys222

Nix have now lost the most cup games to non A league teams (4), and the next most is 2. We also now have the record of having the heaviest loss vs a non a league team in this cup.. A record breaking team! 

Mainland FC

imanixsupporter

There is either a massive lack of ambition or a massive lack of competence. The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League. Something big needs to change. 

"The Nix are the biggest losers in the history of the A-League."
No, they're not.

Nobody cares about the cup. Like yes it's silverware but that's about it. Even less people care we've lost the most to NPL teams. 

I would rather beat AFC 2/3 times this season than win the cup. Hell id rather beat AFC 3/3 times this season than us be premiers. 

The only concern I really have about this result is that we're going to lose another 3 times to AFC this season.

Incredibly small time mentality.

imanixsupporter

I didnt say we have lost the most games, I said we are the biggest losers. Cometh the hour cometh the man and the Nix will show you their true colours on all the big occasions. We are on a preposterously long run of losing every finals game (or tie, in the case of the two legged one against Victory) we play. Has any team got a lower winning percentage in finals than us? Not only do we have no trophies (when every other club has at least one) but no finals reached either. Closest thing to a final we have played in was the last Mariners game in 2023-2024 (which we lost). 100% losing record in derbies. 

Yes there is also the most lost games in "cupsets" too but I think that one is a little unfair to point out, we have been uniquely disadvantaged for a long time in the Cup having to always play away and travel far against lower tier Australian sides, you would statistically expect us to have suffered the most cupsets. 

No doubt about it you and your broken record just dont give up. Has there ever been such an over stated user name. Me thinks not