Contracted Players - Return of the Long Pins

At this time would any team in the world want to give out to many player details if they want their services next season and have not come to terms on a contract renewal.  (How many A-League players have signed extensions for security. That clubs are hold)

Player a holidaying on Gold Coast - club releases this- other (eg Roar) club contacts agent. Medicals etc in that area sorted - deal done.

Load of assumptions but what is the forum for - guess work - misinformation - Theories etc   

EDIT: Just checked who his agent is  https://www.transfermarkt.com/pro-profil-gmbh/beraterfirma/berater/12

In the absence of being allowed to sell tvs on trade me, I guess we have to keep an eye on social media.

A-League contracts start on June 1 (or whenever a player signs) and end on May 31 each year.

So in between the contracted season 1 end and season 2 start  their must? be a further clause to cover that period that do's not accrue Wages, Sick leave, Holiday pay and lock them for the 2nd season. 

Curious as to how you know they are contractors. I mean, there are a whole bunch of tests as to whether a contract is an employment relationship or an independent contractor relationship. Contractors are supposed to be people who run their own business, choosing from a variety of work offers such as consultants, electricians, IT and so on. They don't get the benefits of an employment relationship because they don't have one employment relationship they are dependent on for income. Also it can say on a contract they are contractors, but the nature of the relationship can actually be that of an employee. As someone said before you can be casual, fixed term or permanent employees.

Bearing in mind law in Oz and NZ is different.

My concern was that the wage subsidy or other relief measures might specify employees and a whole bunch of folk might be out. But so far that doesn't seem to be the case.

Surely any such liabilities must accrue steadily across any contract? 

Eh, man it's so long until football time 

Steve T is in our thoughts xo

From what I know of employment law (having signed a total of three employment contracts in my time) I see no reason why players would be contracters as opposed to employees working on fixed-term contracts – between the end of one season and the start of the next, for example, they go on leave.

well my tax is being used to finance Matti's wage subsidy, so I wouldn't mind knowing what country he is in if required back to work

Bearing in mind he does not qualify to enter NZ under current border exemptions 

Unless it is under humanitarian grounds - which even for the NIx may be a tough ask

Answer the question Dome, just for the sake of being honest 

so what your saying is that you'd expect to get personal details about every employee your tax dollar is funding? Mate you're having a laugh.

Do you track the guy down the street who's on the dole too? Weird fella.

Not only that, but ask for his daily expenditure supported by receipts too.

apparently basic privacy isn't allowed to footballers?

Have a degree in Commercial law, but haven't used it in a while. My understanding is that playing football would be more likely to meet the definition of employment rather than contracting given they don't choose their time and place of work, don't provide their own tools (kit, balls etc) for the most part, are integrated parts of "the team" & I highly doubt that the payers are sending invoices to the club for payments. If the players are registered as independent contractors I'd expect IRD to have something to say about it - I'm not sure there's a single test that the Nix players would actually meet to be classed as contractors, other than some perofrmance based remuneration which isn't contractor exclusive anyway.

More guidance here: https://www.employment.govt.nz/starting-employment/who-is-an-employee/difference-between-a-self-employed-contractor-and-an-employee/

The Nix players should definitely be being treated as employees, because that is the nature of the work they're performing based on my understanding of NZ employment law.

It's about the nature of the relationship to the employer. If you are more your own boss you are a contractor generally speaking. Employees get a lot more benefits and protections. If companies can get workers to take more risk and cost  that usually suits them just fine, so they'll try to structure things to classify workers as contractors.

Tbf- we've no football and it is the contracted players thread.

So i just read Hooper is leaving the club or has left. Didn't rate him anyway.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/04/16/a-league-season-review-wellington-phoenix/

Good write up. That looks more like advice from a blog to sell or cut. Don't know if we have the option and planning a squad in a league that has no broadcast deal and no guaranteed resumption seems odd. Still, if the NZ/Aussie bubble gets up and running we might be the only game in town.

So the Nixs can make money off of Hooper leaving?

Yep if the nIx are not being honest about his employment situation, bloody oats. Previously it was bash the beneficiary

If a beneficiary went overseas and was not available for work I'm sure winz would be interested and cut the benefit

Now, employers are beneficiaries and their details are on public record  

They need to understand that 

Just be honest, if there is nothing to see here 

No comment is ummmmmm, not good enough 

I would be very surprised if the Nix haven't received professional advice by an employment lawyer already. They know they're the only pro football team in the country and as such their actions will be justified.
Besides, they are owned by prominent people who have many business interests in the country and run by a team of professionals whose reputation is constantly on the line. Cheating the system now might result in some short term savings but would have devastating effects on the team and those responsible.

The Nix have a good track record of staying inside the lines and at a time like this would be playing it safe.

Edit: actions will be SCRUTINIZED not justified...

they work very closely with employment lawyer. 

Hearing conflicting stories about the Academy. One sauce saying it’s goneburger, closed absolutely. Another saying it’s just in hibernation... anyone heard anything about this?

Guess it’s the first thing to go if there are $$ issues.

If the Academy is gone then it raises questions about  Lower Hutt as a club. My understanding is that the Academy fielded the first to third teams at Lower Hutt  and below that were a couple of social teams. 

yep. Club were almost bust before nix went there from Wgtn United (who suffered as a result of them leaving). Terrible news for their future as a club. Know families who have moved their kids to L/Hutt from other clubs due to links to academy and hope of future possibilities. 

Don't believe everything you hear

Guess they are assuming we would have more cap space? Or wouldn't have to pay out the rest of his contract? 

 They were/ are close to going bust. Their financial accounts for the last few seasons prior to The Nix involvement were a disaster. They have a large annual fee to Sportsville for the use of the complex at Fraser Park so if The Nix pull out from the club then they are hanging by a thread.

Yeah I doubt they have turned their attention to the academy in any detail yet. Domestic footy is as up in the air as pro footy.

If the Weenix Academy is a significant cost to Welnix, as purported, then of course they will thought about it heavily over the last month. Even more so if a budgeted $900K payment from Fox via FFA, hasn't turned up in the bank account the last few days.

Every expense within the club will be being looked at now. It may just be an initial suspension on taking in any new kids, for 12 months, as a first step. Who knows. 

But they would have assessed plans for scaling back, or even worse case disbanding the academy - if it meant saving the club itself. Prudent thing to do.

The prudent thing to do would be to not make unnecessarily rash decisions. There is no training or games able to be played for a while yet and staff are receiving a wage subsidy currently. Fine to be in a holding pattern.

For sure don't do anything rash. In that respect with Rob Morrison, unlike say a Tony Sage, the club is in good hands.

I just dispute that they wouldn't have already examined the Academy, and it's cost to the club in any depth. For sure it will be under review, like all monthly expense items. That wage subsidy payment will all too quickly be gobbled up.

they know the in-depth costs already and they would have been stripped back. My point is it is effectively suspended already, and I doubt that they have gone in-depth into closure scenarios (a reference to the comment that it had been closed). So sounds like you are agreeing with that

I don't think they would close the Academy unless the club itself folded. Dome has stated a few times, it is a largish expense to the club, but something the owners are rightly proud of, and see as a long term investment. Obviously having a player signed by Bayern, plus making some money out of Sapreet's transfer would have only enhanced that.

But in the short term the Academy is only an expense item, it doesn't bring in any revenue.

So in a worse case scenario of say no A League for several more months, no money from Fox - Welnix could for sure strip back costs, eg suspend taking in new kids, reduce number of coaching sessions, lay off some coaching staff etc etc. That could entail a few different options, each with a different level of saving for the club.

you know it costs a lot of $ to attend the academy?

But it still runs at a loss for the club?

we aren’t privy to that.  But it was a reference to you ‘suspend new kids’ action

If you have an involvement with the Academy, or have offspring there like I think ClubOranje does, you will know far more than me, about what parents pay for their kids to be there etc etc. From your comment maybe they need to recruit more kids, not less to make it more profitable. And if it's 100% safe from any cuts that's great news. It's an offshoot of the club that many people can be proud of.

But going on Dome's comments in the past that the Academy still does yes definitely run at a loss, then why would you at least not review it in it's current structure, when you have little to no A League related income. The philanthropic generosity of the owners can only go so far surely. 

it’s a loss just on paper though isn’t it? It’s an investment more than anything else. If the club is serious about continuing after all of this, it needs to keep the academy