Contracted Players - Return of the Long Pins

7062 replies · 2,121,506 views Locked

almost 13 years ago

My secretary has drafted my response above Metal Leg :o) Thanks Patrick.

I can kinda see the point you are making. I was referring more to last year but was not clear on that. I will give you Sigmund. You then expanded on the point more than just favourites so I won't reply to that in the context of the point of favourites cause its not related, whether you have a point or not.

I don't buy into this 'never got a fair crack' thing. If Lindsay was good enough in training, he would have kept someone else on the pine. Hogg was good in one game of the 3 he played. The other two he got caught out position a lot. Read the boards, the posts are all here. When Lochhead came back in, it showed he was better. You don't just give someone a run to see how they go, not in a professional football side. They earn the right to get a shot. Hogg got 3, and was good in 1 of them. I do accept though that he has more upside and probably would have benefited from more time with the team and a preseason. In the context of match to match performance, he was given a shot and was a partial success. That's pro football. You want a contract, perform with the chance you get.

I agree with you Leggy that I don't think Lia is an consistent A League footballer. I view him as a squad filler but that does not mean there were players last year he was keeping out of the lineup. If so, name them. It's the Downey clause that Patrick alluded to in drafting my response.

In defence of Hogg he came off a long non-playing spell and was not up to speed when he got his chances. He needs a proper pre-season and more game time before a decent assessment can be made. I agree JV, he does offer more upside in terms of improvement than the older and fading Lochhead. I would also like to see Boxall given more game time because he too has potential.

I see Derby County wants to sign Krishna (but there are NZ residency issues). Can they see something in the livewire 25-year-old that the Phoenix can't? I think he's a better option than Totori and could make a good defence splitting partner for Brockie. There's no question Krishna's game has improved since his last trial at the NIx. For a start he stays on his feet better and reads the game with more aplomb.

almost 13 years ago

Still too many lapses of discipline i.e. yes I see you've kicked the ball away. I'll give it 20 secs and then come put a cheap shot on you. The Phoenix have too many of those players already in Sigmund, Lia, Muscat....

Grumpy old bastard alert

almost 13 years ago

BarryZuckerkorn wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:

Just throwing this out there for consideration. Boxall & Siggy at the CB spots and Durante in as a either a Sweeper/DM or Anchor? I believe he has played there in the distant past.

I suggested pretty much the same thing on the transfer thread a week ago... although I reckon you could have Boxall as DM and Dura as CB instead as well. Both would work I reckon, as long as they were playing alongside a more technical distributing midfielder

Boxall played as a DM with the ability to drop into the backline at ACFC when he's a youngster - this would be a massive step up but wirth a shot in pre season. Distribution would be my main worry

Peoples Republik of Aucklandia

almost 13 years ago

I think we will keep Hogg over Lochead. Hogg wont demand the same wages as Lochy, which will free more funds up for other incoming players which we need more... e.g. a quality RB or DM.

Will be sad to see him go after his loyal service, but upwards and onwards.

almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History

PROAK wrote:

Boxall played as a DM with the ability to drop into the backline at ACFC when he's a youngster - this would be a massive step up but wirth a shot in pre season. Distribution would be my main worry

So did Sigmund. Best player in the league when he did. Still don't think I'd try him there in the A-League.

As for Krishna. It's not just the Phoenix but also MLS clubs, US-League clubs and at least two other A-League clubs.

How's my driving? - Whine here

almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History

patrick478 wrote:

MetalLegNZ wrote:

Brown who went missing for almost a year never got dropped. (Brown did a lot of work that went unnoticed, and he was a key man for us (Trani's words, not mine))

Bertos spent a couple games on the pine.. hardly sent packing for two years of mediocrity. (played in an unfamiliar position and he was the only player we had who could play there, who else could Ricki have put at RB?)

Siggy last year was pants, Boxall only got a run when Siggy was away or suspended. (Boxall hardly helped his chances when he did get a run, was responsible in 4 of the goal in the 5-0 loss to CCM).

Hogg didn't get given a fair crack, so i don't take that arguement for a minute. (Agree with you on this one. Hogg impressed me in Auckland but didn't get much of a run after that)

Or better yet how after we lost game after game by huge score lines last season he kept faith in the same players to turn the ship around when everyone could see the players he had weren't up to it and couldn't carry out the change in tactics. How bad does a team have to play before you give the other squad players a chance.... unless he has favourites and they are merely there to make up the numbers. (Is there any point in dropping a large number of players when the players coming in to replace them are nowhere near as good as the current team, even if they were playing poorly. I'm sure we would have all loved it if Downey was thrust into the starting XI and expected to be our saviour).

My responses to some of your points in italics above.

Ricki should've had Muscat moved to RB when it became clear he wasn't his usual self in midfield, i.e. exactly what Greenacre did when Ricki departed. Bertos wasn't even that good at right back. He was a reasonable stop-gap but he shouldn't have been made THE solution because he is not a right-back and never will be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

almost 13 years ago

according to 3news there should be some news on hogg in a week or so

almost 13 years ago

Weird way to introduce a story... no clues, transfer rumours??

almost 13 years ago

just Hogg himself on 3 news saying he'll know this week whether or not we want him for another season

COYN

almost 13 years ago

hamezilla wrote:

just Hogg himself on 3 news saying he'll know this week whether or not we want him for another season

Which lines up with Merrick saying that he will make decisions on the uncontracted players in his first offical week in the job (which starts tomorrow IIRC).

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

almost 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

So did Sigmund. Best player in the league when he did. Still don't think I'd try him there in the A-League.

Hardly, he got ripped to bits in a certain game at Waikatere that you attended.

A dog with a bone :)

almost 13 years ago

nightz wrote:

Hard News wrote:

So did Sigmund. Best player in the league when he did. Still don't think I'd try him there in the A-League.

Hardly, he got ripped to bits in a certain game at Waikatere that you attended.

Sigmund was often very good at ACFC, no denying that, but when the red mist descended he was a liability. I remember tackles that elicited winces from the stand even before the studs connected. I commend Ricki for reducing that side of his game. Still think you've seen the best of Siggy and need to plan ahead. At least give Boxall a proper pre-season to test him out.

almost 13 years ago

Trueblue wrote:

nightz wrote:

Hard News wrote:

So did Sigmund. Best player in the league when he did. Still don't think I'd try him there in the A-League.

Hardly, he got ripped to bits in a certain game at Waikatere that you attended.

Agree. At 31, I don't think he is going to be as 'good as he was 2 years ago and hopefully shouldn't be as 'bad' as last year. His lack of footbal skill on the ball makes me think his decline will start sooner than others.

Grumpy old bastard alert

almost 13 years ago

i'm pretty sure lochhead has a decent season left in him. especially with a new coach on board. short of being able to sign a stunning new left back, i'd keep lochhead and hogg and simply put them up against each other.

the key here is simply ability. whilst rowe has a decent future, he's still some way off lochhead and he is also of no use as n u20 player

360footballnews.com

almost 13 years ago

Nix won't touch Krishna. Totori has prob scared the club of Island players for years to come.

almost 13 years ago

I wouldn't write Totori off just yet under Merrick. He may see him playing a slightly different role with the Nix this year, e.g. play him up top as opposed to out wide and get him running at defences.

Whilst his decision making was pretty pants last year, he is decent with the ball at his feet and has some pace.

New coach....second chances and all.

almost 13 years ago

MetalLegNZ wrote:

Whilst his decision making was pretty pants last year, he is decent with the ball at his feet and has some pace.

New coach....second chances and all.

Ernie did say he wanted a quick striker....

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

almost 13 years ago

If Totori could finish..

almost 13 years ago

or hold onto the ball for more than one touch, or stay within the field of play. If he even makes into the starting lineup this season I'd be surprised.

Queenslander 3x a year.

almost 13 years ago

thats a long wishlist..

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

almost 13 years ago

tripvincent wrote:

Nix won't touch Krishna. Totori has prob scared the club of Island players for years to come.

I think Merrick might be tempted if he's looking for a striker with pace. I think Krishna is a better all round player than Totori.

almost 13 years ago

Trueblue wrote:

tripvincent wrote:

Nix won't touch Krishna. Totori has prob scared the club of Island players for years to come.

I think Merrick might be tempted if he's looking for a striker with pace. I think Krishna is a better all round player than Totori.

The ringing endorsement of the year goes to Trueblue..... for "Krishna is a better all round player than Totori".

On that basis, sign Krishna now.

almost 13 years ago

No thanks to both of them. Totori is very much one for calling his own number as much as possible. Krishna at least fits in with a team play but is a dirty footballer.

Derby County... Isn't that were Luke Adams is, whom played with Krishna at Waitakere? I think this is more of a 'I know a guy' trial more than anything else (and yes I know its not happening)

Grumpy old bastard alert

almost 13 years ago

Trueblue wrote:

I think Merrick might be tempted if he's looking for a striker with pace. I think Krishna is a better all round player than Totori.

He has one spare import spot to play with. There is zero chance he would be temptedc.

How's my driving? - Whine here

almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History

Merrick could potentially look to buy Totori out of his contract if he didn't want him. I doubt his wages are that high. If it's only 50k it might be worth it to free up an import slot, especially if he would settle for less.

I highly doubt Krishna would get a look in either way though. Would you even consider playing Krishna ahead of Boyd? I don't see the point in that signing.

almost 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Trueblue wrote:

I think Merrick might be tempted if he's looking for a striker with pace. I think Krishna is a better all round player than Totori.

He has one spare import spot to play with. There is zero chance he would be temptedc.

This. Should they buy out Totori news?

almost 13 years ago

If the opportunity presents itself, it would be an absolute no brainer.

Why would we want an import we are unlikely to use?

Grumpy old bastard alert

almost 13 years ago

It'd only be worth it if we needed it to sign a foreign marquee or something (which we don't as we still have a spot available). As we'd only be able to sign another player like Totori, especially since we'd still have to fit totoris wages under the cap too.

Not such a no brainier.

Allegedly

almost 13 years ago

But that's assuming we are close to the cap. When it's been stated that Bertos (and Lochhead) will have to sign for less....

Grumpy old bastard alert

almost 13 years ago · edited almost 13 years ago · History

Even so, we'd effectively be paying any replacement the equivalent of totoris wages over what they're worth. Or, paying them totoris wages less than they're worth.

Not easy to find such a player and still come out under the cap, with money left to spend strengthening other areas of the squad (including the foreign spot we have free)

Allegedly

almost 13 years ago

The Phoenix start pre-season training on Monday and Merrick said decisions on the off contract crop would be made ''early next week''.

''If I don't perceive the players as being regular first XI players, they need to know that so they can move on and have another chance to play somewhere else," he said.

"It's no reflection on them, it's about what I think would be the best thing moving forward for the team."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/8764842/Durante-to-retain-captains-armband-at-Phoenix

So in other words, it is a reflection on them.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

almost 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Even so, we'd effectively be paying any replacement the equivalent of totoris wages over what they're worth. Or, paying them totoris wages less than they're worth.

Not easy to find such a player and still come out under the cap, with money left to spend strengthening other areas of the squad (including the foreign spot we have free)

I totally get what you are saying. I still think another option regardless of the quality would be better. Totori is a known quantity and is not going to cut it so do we really want to persevere with him knowing that he isn't an option? He is this years Downey

Grumpy old bastard alert

almost 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Even so, we'd effectively be paying any replacement the equivalent of totoris wages over what they're worth. Or, paying them totoris wages less than they're worth.

Not easy to find such a player and still come out under the cap, with money left to spend strengthening other areas of the squad (including the foreign spot we have free)

It completely turns on who is available really.

Whoever negotiated that Totori deal should be quietly chucked off the wharf into Wellington harbour

Normo's coming home

almost 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

Tegal wrote:

Even so, we'd effectively be paying any replacement the equivalent of totoris wages over what they're worth. Or, paying them totoris wages less than they're worth.

Not easy to find such a player and still come out under the cap, with money left to spend strengthening other areas of the squad (including the foreign spot we have free)

It completely turns on who is available really.

Whoever negotiated that Totori deal should be quietly chucked off the wharf into Wellington harbour

This

I think you can blame this on Mr Herbert. He really went out on a limb to get Totori signed. I think the hot tropical sun in Honiara fried his brain and he came away thinking Totori was an Islander Messi. Giving him a two year option and tying up an import slot would be, without doubt the dumbist think that has ever happened at the Nix.....and there have been some really dumb stuff!!!!

You could argue that Totoris lost import slot will have a huge part to play in Merricks first season. He wants to get quality into the midfield. Highly unlikely to find this now with a OZ/kiwi local. So now he gets one shot at getting the right import. Thats a huge percentage risk in that the import might not settle...and turn out a dud. At least if you could get two imports you would hugely increase your probability of at least getting one two be a success.

A bit light Postecoglu at MV. He did his research and signed two import midfielders. Finkler turned out OK....Bru was a dud. This happened despite Ange doing his due diligence on both players. Hopefully we end up with a Finkler and not a Bru

almost 13 years ago

Well against the All Whites that day he did look like a stand out. I guess maybe it says quite a bit about the AWs

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

almost 13 years ago

Oi Oi Edgecumbe wrote:

Well against the All Whites that day he did look like a stand out. I guess maybe it says quite a bit about the AWs

One game. I remember I played a blinder once, I'm still an absolute hack though.

almost 13 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

Is there any way to avoid being saddled with an albatross round the Nix' neck for the next season? Could Totori be loaned out to somewhere else while he serves out the rest of his Nix contract? Better than him just warming the bench.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

almost 13 years ago

Loan him out to wharfies over 35's.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

almost 13 years ago

I think everyone has found out how pace can really mask a lack of skill. Totori has been an above average ASBP footballer for a while and in weaker teams, he looks like a star because the weaker players just give him the ball and he runs with it.

What we saw last year is what happens when pace alone is not enough. Does anyone know how he did at Portland because its a given that his skill level can be hidden by pace at ASBP and O League level.

I guess, if you wanted to draw a long bow, does the same apply to Krishna because it has been pointed out he has been trialled at a few sides and not caught on. Same reason?

Grumpy old bastard alert

almost 13 years ago

With so many players missing for the first game of the season, what are the chances of Totori starting or do the Solomons have a game as well?

This topic is locked.