Contracted Players - Return of the Long Pins

Loyalty Players – A Club can spend up to a collective $200,000 across any number of Players that have given 5 or more consecutive seasons of service to the Club. A portion of a Loyalty Player’s contract value is excluded from the Salary Cap based on a progressive scale from 25% (5th continuous season) to 50% (10th continuous season onwards);

This season, Moss, Fenton, Durante and Lia qualify for that. So if we are using that cap exception, retaining Lia will have some of his wages outside the cap for sure.

[Edit: next season Ridenton & Rufer hit 5 years, so will be eligible also]

Edit: RR bet me to it, I think Italiano is also eligible next year.

So lets say we offer Lia a 150k contract as a squaddie, his cap hit could be as low as 75k. You are probably not going to find a squaddie at similar levels for that price.

Probably a good chance that Dura takes most of the cap exception tho?

There's the amount of money we have to spend (80% of the cap?) And the amount of money we can spend (effectively infinite if you poured stupid money into marquees) and then there's the actual amount they are willing to spend. I'm sure it's more than the cap, but how much more?

Lia needs to go. There should be strict criteria ie. " Can this player win us he league or has he the potential to do so" . We  need a clean out and in addition  players like Kosta  and Finkler who have the ability   should be put on notice that their performances are sub standard.

There has been a reluctance to bench Kosta even though his form was poor. Hudson left him out of The All Whites and then we got a good game out of him We also need to be smarter about recruitment which has been make shift at best.

The reason why we have never come close to winning The League is due to accepting second best.

Lia needs to stay. You can't win the league without decent defensive midfielders, and Vinnie is one. Clean outs means you then have a whole season getting everyone to know how to play together again.

Yes, and we do. We have two marquees, and a mature aged rookie, there's no reason why we won't be using the Loyalty Bonus. Are we eligible for the home grown player exemption?

Also as pointed out many times before, it's a Salary capped league. You need squad players, you can't have every player the best in the league in their position. It's about finding a balance. 

Between his experience, fact that he won't be expensive and he's done well this year, I wouldn't mind seeing him get a anoyear.

Reira  is the only decent midfielder we have had in recent years. If Lia is so good how come other clubs are not queuing up to take him on?

Have to laugh really how some people think we can just sack a number of players and there are suitable replacements just sitting around waiting for us to contact them.

Recruitment is a challenge but the harsh reality is that need a clean out  of sub standard players or we are in for another season of disappointment. 

It's quite rare that a team does well after an overhaul/transitional period. I do agree things need to change around the club, but getting rid of Lia after one of his best seasons isn't one of them. Especially since some of his pay can be outside of the salary cap. 

Id he happy to sign Lia on a 1+1+1 contract. $$ slowly depleting as the years go by. Has been great for us this season, was pretty good ever since Ernie came on board so deserves the recognition, not etaly retirement. He's the only player in our squad that shows that Ben Sigmund mana.

Well Bonevacia to WSW

Fixed, to reflect real world situation rather than wishful thinking.

We have had two shocking seasons because we have too many substandard players. I amazed that so many want to keep the status quo.

There's no way that wholesale changes will make us better, in fact you lose an advantage as you lose about 200k of cap space without players over the five year mark. 

You maybe have one good result as a bit of a fluke, but we've had a number - not just blow out scorelines but also the second most clean sheets in the competition. 

The squad hasn't been settled this season and there has been a lot of politics going on behind the scenes, I think we should use the cap space and foreign spot vacated by Moss and Roly to balance the team a bit better and then invest in the coaching staff. Despite our position on the table I don't think we're more than a few tweaks away from winning the competition.

I would honestly toss Finkler before Lia on current form. What exactly does Gui bring us that WeeMac doesn't? He was supposed to be dynamite on the dead ball but I haven't seen it.

Slightly off-topic, but if Gui's wife did not feel right in Welly after the November quake, surely there was no need to go all the way to Brazil?  After several seasons with Melbourne Victory they may have Australian residency?  

He said in an interview that it was always planned that she would return to Brazil for the birth but after the earthquake they decided she'd leave earlier then planned. You'd think she would have it in Australia as they still give citizenship by birth but it sins like she wanted to be with family.

Well, recently he's scored 4 goals, including a bullet header? 5 in total.

Mikey's only scored 5 or more twice in his career.

Finkler scores more goals for starters.

I have checked on the "real world" situation with the A League. Duiring the 2009/10 Ange Postecoglou took over the Roar. He let go 7 regular players ( a clean out) and brought in new players then went onto win the grand final in 2010/11.

West Sydney Wanderers was formed in 2011 and in their inaugral season won the premiership and lost the grand final.

So history shows that teams starting fresh  can succeed.   

The Wanderers seem to have been a case of lightning striking, they've done a couple of cleanouts since then and haven't really gone on to the same success.

Wanderers were grand finalists in 2013, 2014 & 2016. Good results for a team which has had  a couple of clean outs

Well they've only been around for a few seasons, they also finished ninth and fifth. They also have a lot more money than us.

Our only strategy for success is to build a team through our academies, recruit promising players, and a few top players.

The rumors are that City have offered Troisi a million a season, their three marquees next season are likely to be paid as much as our entire team, we can't compete with the spending of the big teams and so we have to play the patient game and assemble a squad over a few seasons.

Kind of different argument, but can we also have a lot of BS exemptions from the FFA and Shinji Ono? Watch how they dropped off when they had to compete on the same playing field as the rest of us.

Adelaide is really the team I'd like us to emulate in some ways. Not their recent form obviously.

Their home ground is a fortress. They have a strong following and a devoted one-eyed football community. They've had some real success, including a magical ACL run. They have a decent (formerly) craft beer in Coopers.

That's the kind of culture I think Wellington can bring. 

good beer, good fans, football culture 

The original claim which you supported was that clean outs /fresh teams will not have success. Well WSW and Brisbane examples show that it can be a success.

Brisbane and WSW were also never put in a situation where they only had 3 years of their license left. 

Ange was appointed in October of 2009, cleared out a few players, and ended up winning the league in 2011. So the clear-out wasn't quite to immediate effect. We don't quite have the time to field a team of strangers for a season to familiarise themselves with each other due to the time constraints of our licence.

The original claim that clean-outs/overhauls rarely lead to success (especially immediately) still stands. In the context of the Phoenix, budget is a relevant argument. The fact is our owners are less able and willing to spend as much as other owner's in the league, therefore recruiting replacements after a clean-out of the squad would prove more difficult in comparison to other teams. 

There are a lot more changes the club could make other than clearing out players that may be less risky, more cheap and more effective. 

Clearing out players only works if you can find better quality replacements, have a look at the list in the transfer thread and see what is available locally. If there isn't better players there, you have to find Aussie/Kiwis from overseas as we only have 2 visa spots to recruit with.

Roar brought in Broich, Paartalu, Franjic, Theo, JCS, Stefanutto & Matt Smith to replace the guys they dumped.

WSW signed 6 visas and recruited 4 former Socceroos, some of which were released by other A-League clubs early from their contracts to let them join.

remember to factor in AFC 4+1 quota from 2018/19

When Ange took over at the Roar they were struggling. He set about replacing  7 players (not a few as you claim) at the completion of that season and won the title the next season. He got immediate success after a clean out something that you and others question.

I don't think a clean out is needed - but one two very good buys are.

In Doyle and Tratt we have solid full backs finally and in Rossi the best CB in the comp... a weakness in previous years. 8 clean sheets is no fluke. Durante needs some genuine competition, not sure Fox or Lowry are it at this stage.

What we really need is a natural winger. Kosta can play on one side and a recruit on the other. We also need a stronger DM, Lia has had a good year, but we need a more complete player, a better athlete. 

A younger Smeltz would be nice too, but I am happy to give him one more year on a low rate.

Coaching and a sports psychiatrist is what the team needs.

What do we think about Fox? Ahead of Lowry on mobility and potential? CB his best position. Did really well against Jets.

I rate him. The first Victory game this season aside, has he ever played badly when given the chance? Looks superbly athletic for a CB, which can be hard to find.

Fox, Lowry, and Rossi could be the makings of a 5 year grouping if we could keep them here