Crowds - The thread of Australian whining

With only 11k, the answer to that is pretty firm.

In terms of Dome being a marketing guy, I know a couple of marketing types and are certainly not like him in terms of commentary in the media. Its almost like he shoots himself in the foot to a degree. Yes the media will pick the aspect that sells (as you mentioned 2nd Best, a dozen good quotes and they pick 1) but then don't give them that aspect to sell. Marketing types are upbeat with the media and come across as very 'rah rah Team Murica' Dome does not do that. In some respects, I think he would help the situation better being a cheerleader. A great example that comes to mind is the Mad Butcher. He is exactly that and is brilliant at rallying. If that's not Domes style, and that's fine, then perhaps he gets out of the media and lets someone else do it. I know that's quite simplistic a view but its actually not that hard. You just need someone whom will do that.

Why has Thunderstix not gagged him, or taken over the PR front for the Phoenix? Is that not her job?

It would be nice if the media stopped going to anyone aligned with that class of '82. They think they are promoting football in NZ - I am not so sure.

So you know what the crowd would have been otherwise? ok then.

I know you are being smug about your response and fair enough but considering history and the intended outcome of what Dome was trying to do, it did not work. Being up against Xmas in the Park (which was a waste of my time by the way) did not help but if people actually took the message seriously and gone 'OMG we are going to lose the Phoenix, we must go' then you would have seen that turn out they wanted. Do you believe that average Joe thinks along those lines (OMG WE MUST GO) cause I don't know anyone like that. Thus (in my opinion), having a fair idea that average Joe does not think that way, then what's the point of spinning that message if its not going to get any traction? It just negates your point that the message works/could have worked.

I know you are trying to defend this but the reality is, it did not work. The pass mark was 12-13k depending on who you listen to so we did not pass.

Did it work for the last season when we got 18K?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/9672271/A-numbers-game-for-the-Phoenix-in-Auckland

There is the answer: they should play for free because it is good tax-write off. LOL

So if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

I don't believe the message works fullstop. I think the fact that they have said it few times just makes it boy who cried wolf. How many times have we heard it. Its the threat EVERY time they come here. I don't believe people tune into that message at all so why go on about it, cause in my opinion, the threat does not work. I believe in this case, the reason for people not going was a combination of events.

I'll give you a different example. When Morgan wanted 10k in Wellington, what got people along? Was it the threat of losing the team or the fact he put up a secret 10k or whatever it was for the lucky seat. Give people a reason to go (not necessarily 10k) don't just threaten them or expect them to go. The fact is, they have improved the on field product out of sight. This should be the talking point and once the media pick up on it (as you said 12 other quotes) and the NZ public do what they do with their bandwagoning of a winning team, the crowds will lift. At the moment, its 10 games of a new team. I don't expect to see bigger crowds till later in the season (and quite late close to play offs when the bandwagoners get onboard) and also next season if we start strong and continue the story. Another example, no one gives a shark about ASBP and ACFC in NZ outside of those tuned in but the instant they win and media picks it up, people talk about it and for 2 weeks, the entire country are ACFC fans.

The real question, is having waved the big stick, are they gonna follow through on it? I don't believe for one second they will. Hence why its a waste of time.

I just don't really see what the fuss is about. It's like we can't whinge about the team because they are playing well, so we have to find the smallest possible issue to whinge about instead.

Ha ha ha ha true. But then if Dome had not said ........

Then we would find something else?

I want people to be enthusiastic about the Nix and more people to support them, I'm sure most people on here are the same. 

They are playing fantastic and yes, there is some positive comment around that. But I think the Nix let themselves down with this prevailing negative attitude towards crowds and money talk. You've called it being honest, which is fine, but I don't think it helps the overall perception of the club in the marketplace. Sure, the media plays a big part in this, but I think there are ways to combat that.

Here's an advertising mantra: "Don't sell the sausage, sell the sizzle". At the moment it seems they're too worried about the cost of making the sausage. Get people excited about what the Nix are doing from youth levels up, highlight the way we're playing, all the good stuff. I'm all about good vibes man. 

A more positive approach to building crowd numbers is all I want. I don't think the current way is going to work long term.

Lest we forget. I had tried to wipe this from my memory banks. Some comedy defending off the last set piece by Smith(?) and Warner.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/perth-glory-grab-late-winner-against-wellington-phoenix-at-wet-and-windy-westpac-stadium/story-e6frf4gl-1226239246098?nk=

I wasn't there but got up at some awful hour in Florida to watch it.

My two cents worth. Live in Auckland and attend virtually every ASB premiership game - both AC and Waitak.

Went to the Waitak game on Saturday (in amongst about 100 others) but didn't go to Eden Park.

Why ?

2 main reasons :

1. Absolutely hate Eden Park - is a dreadful stadium for both football (all codes) and cricket..Suits neither code and should be bowled and converted to pensioner housing.

2. Ticketmaster ticketing procedure an absolute rip off - add all sorts of processing fees, Reminds me of when I went to an O league game at Douglas Field  and got charged a booking fee to pay at the gate !

Watched the game at a pub on the North Shore

so half the reason you didn't go was because of a $3 booking fee for using the ticketing service? Ok. 

Was the principle for me Tegal. I actually travelled 45 mins each way and paid $15 to stand in an empty field in Kumeu. The experience at Douglas Field in the O league really got my heckles up. If they had advertised the total cost rather than a before fees cost I may have paid up but still , like a lot of Aucklanders , find the Eden Park experience unsatisfactory ( I do live close to NHS !)

Not sure if your helping my point or yours. This can be argued both ways, if they were not threatened then 6k wouldn't have shown up, but if the approach was different then there would have been 24k.

The answer is neither are easy to prove so why threaten at all.  It's been pulled apart to death on here but if he wanted to mention crowds why not reference the 18k and say we hope to see a similar amount, why remind Aucklands how apathetic they are?

Westpac is shark, ticketek are cods, but we still show up to A-League games regularly, but for the sake of professional football in NZ you cannot even swallow your pride and turn up to 1. Typical Aucklander.

seems the only solution is to black out the telly coverage for home games, that way the only way people who want to see the games is at the stadium - unless it sells out and then the tv coverage can carry on. The aussies do it foe the cricket i think?

For the record, I find this really offensive.

There is no right or wrong when it comes to why people do or don't turn up. 

You can't assume everyone's preferences and resources (including, but not limited to, $ and time) are the same as your own. Everyone has their own preferences and resources. Everyone is different, and what makes sense to one person might be nonsense to another.

The truth of it is that chubbs has stepped forward and volunteered what affected their decision to attend, or (as it turned out) not attend the Phoenix game. Thankyou for doing so chubbs.

Just because the factor(s) mentioned may or may not line up with your preferences or resources, does not mean it is valid to laud or rubbish that person's choice. It's their choice. If it makes sense to them, then so be it.

The value of such discussions is not in bashing or criticising people whose preferences or resources don't align with your own... on the contrary it is to gain a sample set of the different factors which affect people's decision making.

The more people who transparently volunteer what does and does not motivate them to attend at various venues the better the dataset becomes. Jumping on people who express a point of view different to yours merely discurages people from joining the discourse. It's counter productive.

It is Chopah's choice but does indicate an attitude that is all to prevalent among Aucklanders and why I believe there is little chance an Auckland A-League side would succeed.

Instead of finding a way to get to a game the overwhelming number of Aucklanders find reasons not to attend.

Im not assuming shark, he made it quite clear as to why he didnt turn up. Its not because of money or time (he said he goes to every ASBP game in Auckland - that would cost more in time and $ than 1 Nix game per season at Eden park), and he still had time to go out to the pub and watch from there! He just doesnt care about the Phoenix.

he cared enough to come on here and let us know why he didn't attend. No matter how ridiculous you find the reason, it does show an element of caring about the nix. 

Let's not turn this into who we think is the bigger fan. 

Thought I would try and explain why one person didn't turn up !

For the record I 'm a born and bred Wellingtonian who happens to live in Auckland and follow the Phoenix closely and has been to games at Westpac. I used to also attend virtually every Kingz and Knights game (the nightmares still haunt me)

Actually AJ. He said it was the ticketing company and the shark house stadium. I can understand that. Thete are places I wont shop due to horrible customer service. This is exactly the same as that. Good on you for sticking to your choices. However, if every Aucklander found a reason why they can not go instead of why they could. We end up in this situation.

Key statement. Thats pretty much to everything. Mention North Harbour and its "too far and too hard to get to"...

Just saying.

I tend to agree and this is coming from someone whom was getting annoyed with the games being played away from Westpac. I have thought long and hard about it. If games have to be played out of Westpac, I dont have a problem so long as it is restricted to perhaps 1 or 2 per season. I've been critical of some Aucklanders but I do appreciate the effort some up there make to make us travellers feel welcome and they make the effort to come to the games. I will bat for any center that gets a game and is then told turn up or else.

And let's not pretend this is just an Auckland problem.  We've been struggling to draw the crowds in Wellington the last few seasons - you could argue that there are some excuses there (team playing like shark etc), but ultimately they are just a set of excuses. 

Not sure were to post this so mods move if you want to what you consider a better thread ... nor could I find it posted anywhere so sorry if already posted...

In an interview on Fox yesterday by Gallop on the expansion... has in many ways us Mariners fans cheering him on... but his one line comment on the Nix I have no idea what it means do you guys... Gallop is certainly sending a strong message to Charlesworth wonders is he also sending a message to the Nix owners... 

Gallop on the Nix ... BTW the start of the Mariner quote is in the same sentence as the Nix quote... 

Gallop with Mariner fans cheering same article... kept putting both quotes in the same quote so the next bit is a quote from the article... 

""""but he did have some words for the Central Coast Mariners.

Mike Charlesworth, owner of the Central Coast club, is adamant the Mariners need to branch out into northern Sydney for financial reasons, which is why they have played a couple of their home games at North Sydney Oval.

While Gallop is happy for Charlesworth to experiment with the idea, he is interested to hear how it will affect fans in their “heartland”.

“We’ve been happy for them to run that as a trial and an experiment, but on any view they’ve had mixed results,” he said.

“Ensuring that their core fan base, the community of the Central Coast, is at the heart of all their decision making is very important in our view.

“So when we sit down with the Mariners over the next few months to understand their strategy going forward, we’ll certainly be keen to understand how they intend to maintain their heartland, which is on the Central Coast.""""

Link... http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league-expa...

There should NOT be any games near Sydney, you get decent enough crowds on the coast and when your team is actually doing well, they do turn up. On TV I have seen all three stands full as on quite a few occassions. What is the ground capacioty again please?

Sorry, miss typed added the word NOT.

Just under 20K .... which includes corporate boxes of I think around 2K ... MC is now saying the crowds are OK its the non take up of the corporate boxes... most think he was really after the COE afterall it has over 25 million in government money in it... further he wants to create a de-facto Northern Sydney team and sell us to an overseas buyer and he sees  a Sydney team as having more value than a CC team... we all could be wrong and he is really a caring owner who has made some simple mistakes... 

HATE North Harbour Stadium (or whatever it's called these days). Will go to a game there, but under protest. Despise the place.

you took your time posting that Midfielder. Been waiting for it.

I disagree. Attendances have been pretty much the same since season 2. The fact that memberships are at an all time high this season is a positive sign. 

Interesting and none to subtle comments ... the reaction on the Coast is growing with many groups thinking Gallop has done is provide the opportunity for the community to voice its concerns .... allowing folk like Lawrie McKinna who is now mayor to have a say as well as supporter groups and the local football association...

We kinda can't believe FFA are backing the fans or more over putting MC  on notice ....

Tegal yawn ... 

I posted yesterday http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/straya-a-l...

The media deal if it comes off earlier than expected with more revenue FFA would be in a position to issue some regional grants like the AFL does to its weaker clubs … so Mariners, PG, Jerks, Nix could each get another say 500K …

If the deal is only four years and assume the 100 million per year was possible its only a 20 million difference over 4 years ie, and extra 40 million in year one and less 60 million in years 2 to 4…

It would also open up FFA to negotiate directly with NZ FTA stations for Nix's games ... getting the balance right of the two new teams is a big call and knowing the errors of the recent pass re Gold Coast and Nt Qld, Lowy would have Gallop's balls if he picked the wrong areas... 

I suppose what I meant is that we've struggled to get to the so call break-even point of 10,000 per match.  I just think that we shouldn't necessarily have a go at Aucklanders for pulling a smaller than hoped for crowd, when we don't on a consistent basis.  

You're right though, the memberships are a positive sign and hopefully that continues to build going forward.

let's not forget that the last 2 seasons we've finished last and 2nd to last so there's been no late season surge as playoff hype builds. Will be interesting to see the crowd numbers at the end of this season if our current form can be maintained. It's also important to note the difference between mean and median crowds. A few big outliers in previous seasons (for instance the post LA Galaxy game) have skewed the mean crowd figure I'd guess?

come again?

I went to the fudgeing game thanks very much and I brought 20 odd other people with me!

That was in season 1, which has been largely ignored in these discussions due to novelty factor plus games like that Adelaide one and first game ever being outliers. 

We should get good crowds toward the end of the season if we keep our league position up, however having the Hutt rec games reasonably late is unfortunate.

Good article in the Guardian discusses the CCM move to North Sydney.
: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/...
The answer seems to me anyway to have a north Sydney team, but that may be a step to far for the A-League