Wellington Phoenix Men

Felipe and Daniel

72 replies · 3,349 views
over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I seem to recall that Japan had a very good Brazilian player around the 2002 World Cup, also one or two of the middle east nations, so it is possible given the right circumstances, luck and desire.
Whatever the case, there's no doubt that the Brazilians add that x-factor to the A league.
 
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
StopOut wrote:
So can't we poach one or both of these boys for the All Whites? Anyone out there got a daughter of marriagable age they wouldn't mind lending out for the good of the nation?
 
Marriage might be a problem - Daniel is definately married, I think Felipe is the same, and George brought his partner with him as well...  However, this isn't a problem as...
 
FIFA changed their regulations a couple of years back - as they haven't represented Brasil at senior level all Felipe, Daniel or George would have to do in order to represent NZ would be to play in New Zealand for two consecutive years...  Daniel has a two year deal, so he could do it!
 
The only hitch I can think of is that although they are playing for a NZ team, they are in the AU league.  FIFA does like to mess around with people.
 
There are currently Brasilians in the Japanese, Mexican and Croatian national sides - that's just off the top of my head.  I'm sure there's plenty more around.  A few years back there was even a suggestion that Edu might play for England.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
phoenix07 wrote:
i think the A-league football is just as good as any other league in the world, its better than the SPL anyways (scottish premier league)


So you think Celtic and Rangers would struggle over here?


lol celtic would destroy, any free kick anywhere near the box would be a goal for shunsuke Nakaumura!
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SPL is just a 2 horse race, though.

a.haak

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
phoenix07 wrote:
i think the A-league football is just as good as any other league in the world, its better than the SPL anyways (scottish premier league)
 
Thats a big call- its massive news that Killen has made the bench for Celtic. You'd imagine that he'd be able to walk into a starting position with most A-League teams- and I think the calibre of player gives a pretty good indication of the quality of the league.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Fifa Regulations regarding the Eligibility of International Players

Regulations Governing the Application of Statutes

Chapter VIII.  Nationality of Players

Art. 18

1.  Any player who is a naturalised citizen of a country in virtue of that country's laws shall be eligible to play for a national or representative team of that country.

2.  If a player has been included in a national or representative team of a country for which he is eligible to play pursuant to �1, he shall not be permitted to take part in an international match for another country. Accordingly, any player who is qualified to play for more than one national association (i.e. who has dual nationality) will be deemed to have committed himself to one association only when he plays his first international match in an official competition (at any level) for that association.

3.  The only players exempt from this provision are those whose nationality has been changed not voluntarily but as the result of an international decree either granting independence to a region or ceding part of one country to another.



Just as an FYI

DrQuack322007-09-28 07:38:01
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
cheers for the info DrQ - so it looks like if they haven't played for Brazil, the only lead-in time is the time it takes to get NZ citizenship - and I can't remember how long that is ...?

Maybe the powers that be could fast track it .... like the time it took Harry Duynhoven to get regularised
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
SPL is just a 2 horse race, though.


I agree, i think bar Rangers and Celtic. We would be able to beat the others in the league or at least be at the same level. I remember when Dumfermline came over here, they looked rubbish and a patchy AW's side beat them 4- 1. I think they came 4th that year in the SPL?? Correct me someone if im wrong?
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Right on Benjamin,
 
 Eduardo Da Silva , now of Arsenal is naturalised Croatian,
 
 Alex, now of RedBull Salzburg plays for Japan,
 
 And I think its a guy called Da Silva that plays for Mexico. Another guy called Emerson was payed  huge bucks to play for Japan, but then never actually played.
 
 As for our guys, if being realistic, not one of them could ever play for the Brazilian national team. None of them had outstanding careers in Brazil, whereas players that are currently outstanding in Brazil still dont get a look in. For mine, Felipe at the moment and Daniel could be great for the NZ team.
 
 P.s. by the way, Im not this tony character
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yea could be great to get Daniel for the all whites, but lets be realistic, Felipe is leagues away in quality from ever making the Brazilian side. Not even any where near same class as players in that side. Wouldn't mind seeing him don the all white though, him and daniel would be quality additions
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
SPL is just a 2 horse race, though.
 
Other than when Sir Al-Sux Fergusson led Aberdeen to the title back in the 80's (?) The SPL has always been a 2 horse race from it's inception. Allegedly formed to give all teams a chance, it ended up endoring what the Scottish league has been about ince the turn of last century.
 
Celtic & Rangers would struggle in the English premier league . Amazingly they get decent players to go to Scotland, yet when in Eruope they get found out all too often. Ok, Celtic were in the semis the other year but alas how often does that happen? And glasgow Rangers? Forget it.
 
I guess both scottish clubs are waiting for the European Super league to start so they can finish towards the bottom of the table. Sorry Celtic fans, but that is a reality proven by history. Lisbo Lions no more.
 
I've got a QPR V Celtic 40th Anniversary programme from this last summer. Half devoted to Celtic & half for the QPR League Cup win 3-2 over WBA in the first Wembley Final for the competetition.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
phoenix07 wrote:
i think the A-league football is just as good as any other league in the world, its better than the SPL anyways (scottish premier league)


So you think Celtic and Rangers would struggle over here?


No the ugly sisters (Celtic and Rangers) would simply control the FA and run the league with dodgey refs as they always have!!

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Interesting points about the Ugly Sisters, Lonegunmen. Despite my utter contempt for both teams, I don't necessarily agree that they would struggle in the EPL. I think both would be fairly comfortable in there. As for your point about Celtic being found out in Europe, I probably agree with that as well but they seem to have a fairly good record against EPL teams in European matches over the past few years. 

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Auckland Jag wrote:
Interesting points about the Ugly Sisters, Lonegunmen. Despite my utter contempt for both teams, I don't necessarily agree that they would struggle in the EPL. I think both would be fairly comfortable in there. As for your point about Celtic being found out in Europe, I probably agree with that as well but they seem to have a fairly good record against EPL teams in European matches over the past few years. 

Mid league try hards at best in the EPL !

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Realisticly there is very little chance of any of them playing. the requirement for citizenship is now 5 years. used to be 3 years, but was increased in 2005.

from DIA

  1. Been present in New Zealand for a total of at least 1,350 days during the 5 years immediately before you make your application; and
  2. Been present in New Zealand for a total of at least 240 days in each of those 5 years, with a Permanent Resident Permit issued by the New Zealand Immigration Service; and
  3. Fully met any conditions imposed by the New Zealand Immigration Service in regard to your Permanent Resident Permit.
steve
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Realisticly there is very little chance of any of them playing. the requirement for citizenship is now 5 years. used to be 3 years, but was increased in 2005.

from DIA

  1. Been present in New Zealand for a total of at least 1,350 days during the 5 years immediately before you make your application; and
  2. Been present in New Zealand for a total of at least 240 days in each of those 5 years, with a Permanent Resident Permit issued by the New Zealand Immigration Service; and
  3. Fully met any conditions imposed by the New Zealand Immigration Service in regard to your Permanent Resident Permit.
steve


Excellent that means i can play for the All Whites!!(have they got a Masters team?)

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
football wrote:
Right on Benjamin,
�

�Eduardo Da Silva , now of Arsenal is naturalised Croatian,

�

�Alex, now of RedBull Salzburg plays for Japan,

�

�And I think its a guy called Da Silva that plays for Mexico. Another guy called Emerson was payed� huge bucks to play for Japan, but then never actually played.

�

�As for our guys, if being realistic, not one of them could ever play for the Brazilian national team. None of them had outstanding careers in Brazil, whereas players that are currently outstanding in Brazil still dont get a look in. For mine, Felipe at the moment and Daniel could be great for the NZ team.

�

�P.s. by the way, Im not this tony character


As I've said a number of times before, Eduardo is a completely different story than the Phoenix lads - he came to Croatia as a 14-15 year old, and has represented Croatia at age group levels as well as the full national side now. Not sure about the guy who used to play for Japan though, think his name was Alex or something like that.

By the way, I'm pretty sure Felipe's not married.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Benjamin wrote:
FIFA changed their regulations a couple of years back - as they haven't represented Brasil at senior level all Felipe, Daniel or George would have to do in order to represent NZ would be to play in New Zealand for two consecutive years...  Daniel has a two year deal, so he could do it!
 
They have to get NZ citizenship I believe - you can't represent a country for which you're not a citizen - residency is not enough. I'll try and get a hold of a copy of the official regulations to get the exact wording.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sorry - should have read the rest of the thread before replying as I've been beaten to it.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Also on wikipedia ( don't know if its true) it claims Daniel played for the brazillian national team against saudi arabia
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Kiwi Jambo wrote:

Excellent that means i can play for the All Whites!!(have they got a Masters team?)
 
You mean you haven't already represented Scotland... and there was me thinking you were one of Ally's Army in 1978
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
heres the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lins_Cort%C3%AAs
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
chocnut wrote:
heres the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lins_Cort%C3%AAs


Uhm, lies?

There was a big article on Daniel in the Dompost. Before pre-season. Look it up. Not wikipedia.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
DrQuack32 wrote:
Fifa Regulations regarding the Eligibility of International Players

Regulations Governing the Application of Statutes

Chapter VIII.  Nationality of Players

Art. 18

1.  Any player who is a naturalised citizen of a country in virtue of that country's laws shall be eligible to play for a national or representative team of that country.

2.  If a player has been included in a national or representative team of a country for which he is eligible to play pursuant to �1, he shall not be permitted to take part in an international match for another country. Accordingly, any player who is qualified to play for more than one national association (i.e. who has dual nationality) will be deemed to have committed himself to one association only when he plays his first international match in an official competition (at any level) for that association.

3.  The only players exempt from this provision are those whose nationality has been changed not voluntarily but as the result of an international decree either granting independence to a region or ceding part of one country to another.

Just as an FYI

 
What's the date for that ruling...  FIFA released this one as the result of an emergency meeting back in March 2004...
 
"the FIFA Emergency Committee has ruled that for a player to be eligible to play for another Association�s national team, he must fulfil at least one of the following conditions:

a) the player was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b) his biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
c) his grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
d) he has lived continuously for at least two years on the territory of the relevant Association.

These conditions ensure that a player has a clear connection with the country in question. As the cases are similar from a factual point of view, the Emergency Committee has applied the same conditions that govern the eligibility of players who are theoretically eligible to play for several Association teams on account of their nationality."

I wonder if a trip to Australia every other week and a post season 'holiday' in Brasil would affect their claims...
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I have seen that circular Benjamin. It is on the FIFA website for download. However, you have quoted the conditions out of context. These are supplementary conditions to the national eligibility and only apply to any player when they have acquired citizenship in a new country. They are there to stop a country from rushing through an immediate granting of citizenship to a player purely to make them eligible. Allegedly, Qatar were trying to do this with Brazilian players.
 
In other words, if Daniel gains NZ citizenship he must also satisfy the conditions you quote. Otherwise we could theoretically have the NZ immigration service give him NZ citizenship now and make him an All White.
 
If the immigration service apply the usual rules for citizenship, then a person also meets these additional conditions. They are there to stop nations abusing the rules.
 
Bottom line - Daniel and Felipe cannot be made All Whites until they gain citizenship. If the NZ government waive the usual 5 year period, then there is still two years before FIFA accept the citizenship as valid.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Benjamin wrote:
I wonder if a trip to Australia every other week and a post season 'holiday' in Brasil would affect their claims...


Its funny you say that because I have heard through a pretty good source that the reason Keryn Jordan didn't sign for the Knights is because time out the country affected his nationality claim. If he had signed for them, I believed it added another 9 months onto the time he had to serve in NZ until he could apply. Mind you that sounds out of context with what Daniel and Felipe are doing so don't take above as gospel as I might have that a bit muddled in my own head.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
lol to get the nz government to flag the 5 year period u'd have to tell them they are rugby players
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
chocnut wrote:
heres the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lins_Cort%C3%AAs
 
Think its a crock- have searched all over the net and can't find anything else. The hazards of wiki...
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SiNZ wrote:
I have seen that circular Benjamin. It is on the FIFA website for download. However, you have quoted the conditions out of context. These are supplementary conditions to the national eligibility and only apply to any player when they have acquired citizenship in a new country. They are there to stop a country from rushing through an immediate granting of citizenship to a player purely to make them eligible. Allegedly, Qatar were trying to do this with Brazilian players.
 
In other words, if Daniel gains NZ citizenship he must also satisfy the conditions you quote. Otherwise we could theoretically have the NZ immigration service give him NZ citizenship now and make him an All White.
 
If the immigration service apply the usual rules for citizenship, then a person also meets these additional conditions. They are there to stop nations abusing the rules.
 
Bottom line - Daniel and Felipe cannot be made All Whites until they gain citizenship. If the NZ government waive the usual 5 year period, then there is still two years before FIFA accept the citizenship as valid.
 
Interesting.  I was actually writing a book about aging un-capped players becoming citizens of a small Pacific Island in order to play international football - then Qatar 'stole' my idea.  They had planned to recruit a dozen foreign nationals (as they had previousy done with weightlifters from Bulgaria, etc.) to 'create' a winning national side, but FIFA got wind of it and pulled the plug...  It never clicked with me that these conditions were in addition to citizenship, but I don't doubt that you're correct.
 
Either way, it's going to be a fair while before any Brasilians are available to play for NZ...  Doubtful that George will hang around if Herbert continues to ignore him, but Daniel and Felipe appear to like it over there so you never know.
Benjamin2007-09-29 18:01:31
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Yeah, the wording in the circular includes the sentence:

If a player changes his nationality or if he accepts another nationality simply in order to be able to play for the new national team, he is clearly breaching article 2(e) of the FIFA statues, unless he meets one of the following conditions:
- then the conditions you listed are stipulated.
In the re-issued player transfer & eligibility document of 2006, the conditions are listed as applying in the case of a player holding more than one nationality to whichever nation he decides to represent. The responsibilty of determining nationality remains with the governments, but FIFA insist that these additional conditions must be satisfied to prevent governmental abuse of the system.
 
I presume you mean a fictional book. You could still go for it. Qatar's attempts to play the system weren't major headline news and the story itself would be original.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You guys are all lunatics. You guys edited the crap out that wikipedia article. Id rather believe that he was a promising junior in brazil, then have the whole page edited.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Then find sources and remove the comments...
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