FFA Confusing Us All About Nix ACL Status

FFA Confusing Us All About Nix ACL Status

OK boys, we have this evidence to date:

1. To start, (if that NZ-sourced article the other week was correct) they refer the 10 year licence decision to FIFA and the AFC for final approval. Weak. (source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/3387084/Wellington-Phoenix-10-year-licence-gets-nod <!-- m -->)

2. Second, Michael Cockerill report this in this morning's Sydney Morning Herald "In other news, FFA sources have indicated that no decision on whether Wellington are eligible for the Asian Champions League will be be made until after the season." (source: <!-- m -->http://www.smh.com.au/sport/a-league/brosque-kisel-on-track-to-face-risen-phoenix-20100308-pst6.html)

3. Thirdly, according to this SBS article, WPFC are ineligible for the ACL and Melb and Syd have already qualified. (source: http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/a-league/phoenix-demand-answers-292691)

Now I could contend that the FFA is duck shoving all matters relating to you guys (including your licence, but leave that aside for this thread), but if the media is getting it wrong about the ACL status for the Nix, well it's confusing us also.

Open to you all to discuss, coz if the media can't get it right, then who can?
diego's son2010-03-10 22:07:12

I guess this time in 2-weeks the ACL question will have just become a whole lot more important!

I thought we were allowed if we qualified this year but after that it's all up in the air or something?? Really, I've got no idea.

I know there's still games to be played, but shouldn't the admin body be clarifying it once and for all.

To wait until after the GF and say "right you're in it or not" is a p1sstake on all 3 remaining clubs.

This is poor from the FFA, poor governance. Or poor media reporting. Either way, someone is stuffing up.

I was told by a very credible source not so long ago that if we qualify, we will be playing in the AFC Champions League next year, and that we'd be signing Australian players on short-term contracts to meet the AFC regulations.

Depends if thet've read the 2nd or 2rd article above, which conflict each other.

If the journo's are getting it wrong, then who's f..king it up?

I wouldn't put too much faith in either article - the SMH just makes a by-line without quoting an official source from the FFA (in other word, who the fark knows who they'd talked to), and the sbs article deals more with the licence issues while making a brief reference to the original terms of agreement for the Nix entering the league, without acknowledging that there have been further developments on that front since.

Of course, the reason that Diego's Son is now interested in this is because the only way the 'Nix can qualify for the ACL is if Melbourne don't i.e. 'Nix beat Melbourne in the grand final. Sydney are in regardless.

Nice to see at least one Aussie entertaining the possibility that the 'Nix could win the whole thing even if its only motivated by self-interest!

If we sign a load of Aussies for the Phoenix to play in the ACL then won't we have far too many players in the squad?  Wouldn't you then need to terminate the contracts of some existing players?  Or can players be registered with the club but not be affiliated with the competition at all - I've asked this before and nobody's answered so thanks in advance.

Also, Sydney are in the ACL definitely, if we make the final and lose does 2nd place during the normal season get the other spot or does runner-up in the final get the other spot?  I thought it's the former but I'm not sure.
loyalgunner2010-03-09 18:32:24

haha, Funny this came up was talking about it with Robb and Ahmad today.

All that needs to be done is to register the squad with the AFC for the AFC Champions League. The minimum size of the squad is 18, we could that easily by signing a few Oz players on short-term contracts.

The teams that qualify for the AFC CL from the A-league are the Minor Premiership winner and the Grand Final winner. If that's the same team, the losing Grand Finalist gets the second place (like Adelaide did for this season of AFC CL).

It's confusing for all and will put a question mark over the 2 remaining games. It's a needless distraction for all.

More of a broad interest than just for self though! But i'd imagine legal action by someone (could come from either side of the Tasman) if this is stuffed up.

To confuse the matter more, I've read somewhere that the A-League will have 3 participants at 2011 ACL as we have a 10 team league, trying to research this one further.

EDIT: here you go

Apr 2009

Revised participation criteria for ACL 2011
AFC has announced the revised participation criteria for Member Associations and clubs for the 2011 AFC Champions League.

The new criteria are in line with AFC�s goal of steadily enhancing the competition�s quality and brand equity across Asia.

In 2011, a Member Association interested in participating in the AFC Champions League will need to have an average attendance of 5000 spectators, up from 2000 for this year.

At least 10 teams should be actively playing in the Member Association�s top division (currently eight) and at least 27 matches should be played in the league over eight months.

Currently, the number of matches is 21 without any requirement for the duration of the league.

The number of A-Class stadiums, which can be used for the AFC Champions League matches, with a minimum capacity of 5000 seats has been increased to two (currently one).

At least 18 players (at present 16) should be on professional contracts in the top team of each club.

The Member Associations interested in participating in the 2011 AFC Champions League need to submit relevant documents to AFC by August 31, 2009. The scrutiny of documents, inspection visits and evaluation will take place between September 2009-November 2010.

The AFC Executive Committee will take the final decision on the number of Member Associations and participating clubs in November 2010.


KEY DATES

August 31, 2009 : Submission of required documents to AFC/Selection of MAs
December 31, 2009: Completion of inspection visits
June 30, 2010 : Completion of evaluation
November 2010 : Final visit/Assessment*
November 2010 : Decision of participating MAs & number of clubs/ Final approval by Executive Committee*

*Dates to be decided
diego's son2010-03-09 19:15:19

In 2011, a Member Association interested in participating in the AFC Champions League will need to have an average attendance of 5000 spectators, up from 2000 for this year.

I think they're referring to the overall League average.

In saying that, GCU need to lift their game.

Agree DS, 'member association' seems to apply it is the league average.

This came out this afternoon boys. I smell Legal action.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-sport/phoenix-push-claim-for-acl-eligibility-20100309-pus7.html

Phoenix push claim for ACL eligibility LIAM FITZGIBBON
March 9, 2010 - 3:05PM .
AAP

Wellington Phoenix say they should be entitled to qualify for the Asian Champions League, claiming they are no different to any other side in the A-League.

The New Zealand club's success in this year's finals series has raised questions over their eligibility for Asia's premier club competition.

Each season the A-League's minor premiers and grand final winners qualify for the following season's ACL, with Sydney FC already booking one spot for 2011 having lifted the Premiers Plate.

Should the Phoenix beat Sydney in their preliminary final on Sunday and go on to beat Melbourne in the grand final, they would theoretically be entitled to the second spot.

But under current rules, the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) won't permit the Phoenix to enter the competition because they are not an Australian team and New Zealand falls inside the Oceania Football Confederation (OFC).

Football Federation Australia says the AFC is currently reviewing its stance on participation while the Phoenix are adamant they should be eligible.

"We feel we should be accorded the same rights as the other nine clubs in the competition, that is to say that we should be eligible for inclusion in the ACL," Phoenix chief executive Tony Pignata said on Tuesday.

"Wellington Phoenix is recognised by FIFA as an Australian club that happens to reside in New Zealand.

"Our players are registered with the FFA, just as all players in the A-League are.

"Essentially, we are no different to any other club in the competition."

Pignata would not completely rule out an appeal if the Phoenix managed to win the grand final but were then denied a spot in the ACL.

"That is something we will assess," he said.

"Our focus first and foremost is winning through to Melbourne for the grand final and any speculation beyond that is not part of our agenda."

The Phoenix have been the success story of the A-League this season and attracted more than 32,000 fans to their minor semi-final win over Newcastle at Westpac Stadium on Sunday.

But they have faced questions over their future since AFC chief Mohamed Bin Hammam made clear his indifference to the Phoenix's inclusion in the Australian competition.

Bin Hammam has insisted Wellington should class New Zealand players as imports like every other club in the competition to secure their long-term future, meaning they would be unrealistically restricted to fielding only three local players at a time.

Football Federation Australia has been working to soften the AFC's stance on Wellington's inclusion and the club is optimistic it will have its A-League license renewed for a further 10 years.

� 2010 AAP
diego's son2010-03-09 20:38:57

My problem with how Nix Management are portraying our situation is that they completely ignore the fact that our Kiwis don't count as foriegn players, this is the biggest issue I think.

Its definitely unclear. Until the last few weeks I had thought we could qualify from this season. Now it's murky and Tony is suggesting we can't unless somebody changes their position.

its 3+1 for the ACL? Greenacre, Ifill, Brown would my 3 non 'asians'.

Finding a good left back on loan would be the tough part, for the GK we could always grab Moss back since he counts as an aussie. Ryan's Rovers2010-03-09 23:34:26

Easy son I was referring to this particular issue. More specifically that the FFA, or someone else would send out the same information to all media agencies on its books.

Keep it in that context here.

technically though all the players in the team are registered with the FFA, therefore are aussie players.....surely that clears the way for them to play....They play as non foreign players in the a league, a-league is an asian federation comp so the local players in the a-league must therefore be considered as asian....

Thats is not technically so. Import/foreigner classification is dependent on nationality not on registration.

The way around it is to allow duel citizenship between Australia and New Zealand in which there is some way doing it through Closer Economic Relationship (CER) between the two countries as long there is no criminal record (which naturally they wouldn't be able to get into Australia in customs), it can almost a done deal.

The only catch is for the players to live in Australia for a certain amount of time. The way about that would be to have winter clubs and training camps in Australia for the players.

The quicker way is for the Australian govt to give out free citizenship under special exemptions category, but that is pushing it too far.

The 3rd article was written late February and the 2nd article was written this week. It just reflects the reality of the situation rather than any journalistic laziness.

The FFA is playing political hide and seek so the AFC doesn't burn them. Teams have probably been told that the Phoenix are ineligible to be consistent with the AFC's stance. The FIFA dispensation, however, provides the basis for ACL entry until end of 2011, albeit with import restrictions. The FFA are keeping their options open. So are the AFC.

If the Phoenix don't qualify there's no issue. They would have been breathing a sigh of relief when Sydney lost. Two wins to get in is more unlikely than one. Odds on for Melbourne to be the other entry now.

If the Phoenix do qualify they get the go ahead from the AFC, if the AFC is playing nice with Sepp Blatter this month. They get the thumbs down if they are not.

This is the same reason they are deferring the 10 year license to the higher ups. Diego Son's 'duck-shoving' comment is about right, but they have little choice at the moment. Between WC bids and ACL eligibility threats they have to play it pretty carefully. Shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Stink, huh?*KR*2010-03-10 11:56:46

Fascinating article in this morning's NZ Herald from AAP. Under the above title it suggests that the Phoenix may try to force the Asian Football Confederation and its grumpy chief Mohamed Bin Hamman to allow them to participate in the Asian Champions League if they win this season's A League final. "Under present rules AFC won't permit the Phoenix to enter the ACL because they are not an Australian team."

Uh yeah, that would be the same AAP article that Diego's Son was quoting from yesterday. Bit slow off the mark there BM. And conflicting media reports/mixed messages from the FFA is what this thread is about. But thanks, quoting from the same article has really added value to this thread.

Stop trolling mate. If you haven't got anything new to say resist the temptation!!

"AFC are re-evaluating their stance" or whatever the quote was hopefully means "AFC are carefully wording their face saving backflip"

Fair enough Terminator X except I actually posted this as a new topic yesterday after I read the Herald article and didn't know about Diego's Son thread at the time. Now I find what I posted has popped up here, looking a bit out of place I agree.

I just think it's fascinating that the whole issue is being discussed in the press now with the seeming blessing from the top. There's usually a strategic reason when stories start appearing and I think what has happened is that no-one really expected the Phoenix to be in the position they're in now, with a good chance of actually winning the A League title. Perhaps Terry is feeling stronger than ever before and thinks he may now have a case to press for full A League rights. If inclusion in the ACL means NZ players become foreigners then so be it. Things are happening behind the scenes for sure and the Phoenix are never going to be in a better position to press for an ACL place than if they catch the FFA napping this season and win the title.

It could be they've given up on the idea of a reserve team in the NZFC and being this odd man out are now openly considering being integrated into the A League as a fully Australian club and thus eligible for the ACL. The issue of only having two or three NZers on the field doesn't seem to be a problem for the bumper crowds turning up, so the biggest obstacle to that is out of the way.

I think that's perhaps what has been settled on behind the scenes and now they're testing the water. What do you guys think?

except counting kiwis as foreigners would mean losing ifill and greenacre to keep our kiwis. so its not quite as simple as you are suggesting. i think if we get a youth team,then over time you will see more kiwis in the squad. as you said,we should be pushing for a youth side now while we are going strong.

BM is just sh*t-stirring. He's setting us up for another "how is this helping NZ football?" rant by implying that the 'Nix ownership and management don't care if the 'Nix Kiwis end up getting counted as imports as long as we get into the ACL.

You are talking crap here. All of the signals out of the club have been to the effect that the current arrangement regarding NZ players must remain.

Sure I'm s**t stirring, as you suggest Terminator X, but any raising of a controversial issue is by its very nature such. This is a huge issue with wide ramifications that can't be ignored.

Actually Terminator X that's possibly a good compromise. The three foreigner rule for NZ players could be imposed on the Phoenix for Asian Championship League games if they qualify, but not for the A League itself, where there would be no restrictions on NZ players.

I think earlier in the thread this was suggested as being the good oil coming from different sources. When we win the league next week they will look to sign Aussies/Asians on short terms contracts for the ACL campaign. The A-League squad stays as the status quo, this seems to be the most logical conclusion to the ACL issue.

All this agreeing with each other is making me dizzy.

Just stop it right now. It's not right!