Mods, feel free to move, rename or whatever but.....
What are the realistic options going forward now?
1. Fold completely
2. Take the 4 years [if given] and hold out in the hope of a change of heart from FFA.
3. Some serious work put into a NZ pro or semi pro league or even an Oceania one with the Nix as part of it..
4. anything else
3. The Nix have some great goodwill and a great brand in NZ football. Carry it on in the ASB premiership. Id still go.
http://pwc.blogs.com/files/22nd-afr-spr11.pdf A few years old but some good points raised in this document on the SFA. Surely the British lower leagues operate in a manner that might be replicated to suit our own domestic competition.
I had a ponder about the NZF review and some of the choices yesterday and today, especially regarding televising and the outsized stadiums...
http://in-the-back-of-the.net/2015/10/26/ground-co...
Speaking of crouds, going to a match where the people who do attend are spread out across a vast expanse of seating is bloody rubbish. I’m a Blues season ticket holder. Eden Park may rock when the ABs are playing a test but 40,000 empty seats can make a croud of 10,000 seem like a distant shout carried on a breeze. Putting a croud of hundreds into a stadium designed for thousands won’t produce that buzz that gets first time attendees telling their friends about the game and coming back.
http://in-the-back-of-the.net/2015/10/27/the-model...
Presenting the game as a cargo cult of the Premier League or A League misses out on the authenticity of Kiwitea St, Fred Taylor Park, John Kerkhof, Cambridge and elsewhere, the real number 8 wire grounds. Transplanting crouds from those authentic grounds into larger, identity-free stadiums, where they fill maybe one side or one block, only dilutes the ‘product’ you’re attempting to offer.
TV came to football overseas because it already drew crouds. But those crouds had to be earned over time. It’s important to remember that the ASB Prem sides are babies, practically newborn in comparison to other clubs. Look eleven years into the lifespan of any club, globe striding superpower or otherwise, and you can be certain they were drawing a fraction of what they do now.
On current attendances ASB Premiership sides need to be playing in grounds of a 3,000 to 5,000 capacity until they can draw crouds which fill those venues. I applaud NZF for getting the game televised because it will bring in a bigger audience. However it’ll be interesting to compare games at the 25k+ venues with those at the Bluewater, David Farrington or Gower Park to see which one ‘feels’ right for NZ football.
Express Football Special Calling At
Fratton Park - Champion Hill - Kiwitea St
And all away grounds inbetween.
Just idle wondering really, nothing more, but what would the mood be amongst the likes of some of these NSL clubs for a breakaway league? Rebel Sports naming rights sponsorship?
Kotahitanga. We are one.
I had a ponder about the NZF review and some of the choices yesterday and today, especially regarding televising and the outsized stadiums...
http://in-the-back-of-the.net/2015/10/26/ground-co...
Speaking of crouds, going to a match where the people who do attend are spread out across a vast expanse of seating is bloody rubbish. I’m a Blues season ticket holder. Eden Park may rock when the ABs are playing a test but 40,000 empty seats can make a croud of 10,000 seem like a distant shout carried on a breeze. Putting a croud of hundreds into a stadium designed for thousands won’t produce that buzz that gets first time attendees telling their friends about the game and coming back.
http://in-the-back-of-the.net/2015/10/27/the-model...
Presenting the game as a cargo cult of the Premier League or A League misses out on the authenticity of Kiwitea St, Fred Taylor Park, John Kerkhof, Cambridge and elsewhere, the real number 8 wire grounds. Transplanting crouds from those authentic grounds into larger, identity-free stadiums, where they fill maybe one side or one block, only dilutes the ‘product’ you’re attempting to offer.
TV came to football overseas because it already drew crouds. But those crouds had to be earned over time. It’s important to remember that the ASB Prem sides are babies, practically newborn in comparison to other clubs. Look eleven years into the lifespan of any club, globe striding superpower or otherwise, and you can be certain they were drawing a fraction of what they do now.
On current attendances ASB Premiership sides need to be playing in grounds of a 3,000 to 5,000 capacity until they can draw crouds which fill those venues. I applaud NZF for getting the game televised because it will bring in a bigger audience. However it’ll be interesting to compare games at the 25k+ venues with those at the Bluewater, David Farrington or Gower Park to see which one ‘feels’ right for NZ football.
Except I went to my first Nix game in 2008 and was instantly hooked, but I've never felt enthusiastic over the handful of Tee Dubs games at DF or Newtown that I've been to.
I do wonder if I will go over to ASB stuff after the Nix - not sure at the moment, but leaning towards not really.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
3. The Nix have some great goodwill and a great brand in NZ football. Carry it on in the ASB premiership. Id still go.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
Take the 4 years and work with NZF to get NZ into Asia. Or fold Oceania into Asia completely. Asia treats it's little teams very well and the move would benefit everyone. Nix could stay in the league (not to mention qualify for the ACL). ASB and island leagues could keep the O-League with the winners either still going to the CWC or getting entry into the Asian Confed Cup (kinda like how the Caribbean Championship works in CONCACAF). The move would hugely improve NZ football as a whole. We're on par with the vast majority of teams in Asia and with a bit of work could give the big boys a run for their money. With the NZF publicly coming out in support of the Nix you'd think this move would be high on the agenda.
Except there is no sign of any interest in such a move from anyone that matters outside of NZ.
Except there is no sign of any interest in such a move from anyone that matters outside of NZ.
http://www.sportal.com.au/football/news/new-zealan...
It's in Asia's interest because it would get rid of the playoff with South America.
Gaining half a world cup qualifying spot with the only cost being re-jigging the qualifying system is definitely in AFC's favour. However, swallowing up an entire other confederation made up almost entirely of island nations with a lot of needs and very little upside is far less enticing.
Gaining half a world cup qualifying spot with the only cost being re-jigging the qualifying system is definitely in AFC's favour. However, swallowing up an entire other confederation made up almost entirely of island nations with a lot of needs and very little upside is far less enticing.
If moving to the AFC was what we needed to do to have a professional football team in New Zealand, we must move to the AFC. I'm not saying that is the case but if it was, we should move. I would rather have a professional team than make the u-17 World Cup. Like other members, I'm not sure how I would feel about playing in the ASB Premiership. Wouldn't be the same thing.
Take the 4 years and work with NZF to get NZ into Asia. Or fold Oceania into Asia completely. Asia treats it's little teams very well and the move would benefit everyone. Nix could stay in the league (not to mention qualify for the ACL). ASB and island leagues could keep the O-League with the winners either still going to the CWC or getting entry into the Asian Confed Cup (kinda like how the Caribbean Championship works in CONCACAF). The move would hugely improve NZ football as a whole. We're on par with the vast majority of teams in Asia and with a bit of work could give the big boys a run for their money. With the NZF publicly coming out in support of the Nix you'd think this move would be high on the agenda.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
I look at that in part three, Junior82, about building support (in a wholly ASB context)
http://in-the-back-of-the.net/2015/10/28/we-are-bu...
The second is time. One game may hook some. For others it will take two, or three. Many will come and not come back. Some will dip in and out over years. But if the club is there, it’ll be there for them. They’ll bring their kids. Tradition gets established. There’s a reason why Wellington Phoenix want a ten year contract, it allows you to put down proper roots. For regional teams, it’s absolutely right that the club shifts around the region (like WaiBOP do), but others need a place to live. It’s the difference between owning an house or being on a twelve month rental contract, the latter doesn’t encourage you to decorate or make the place your own. Like I said before, eleven years is almost nothing in terms of establishing a football club. Time matters.
The Nix reference was put in BEFORE all this stuff started, it's not a dig. Time matters.
Express Football Special Calling At
Fratton Park - Champion Hill - Kiwitea St
And all away grounds inbetween.
Please don't turn this thread into discussion on the pros and cons of joining Asia.
Mods, feel free to move, rename or whatever but.....
What are the realistic options going forward now?
1. Fold completely
2. Take the 4 years [if given] and hold out in the hope of a change of heart from FFA.
3. Some serious work put into a NZ pro or semi pro league or even an Oceania one with the Nix as part of it..
4. anything else
WelNix could play the current standoff with FFA as ‘double or nothing’. Reapply for a license – this time for a 20 year term - but with a condition to break ground on a purpose built stadium within four years. In a just world we wouldn't need to make that pledge but it might be a pragmatic way out of this. It gives us the security needed to build the new stadium.
The next challenge would be to deliver the stadium. The thing is that we do need a purpose built stadium to grow the club over the next 20 years. So we could actually bundle both problems together (FFA and stadium) and then tackle them head on.
Start with a robust piece of options analysis. The Mayor has shown support for Save The Nix so that is promising. Now we need a round table meeting between WelNix and the politicians. If there is a lesson to be learned from the Petone Rec saga it is that the stakeholder relationships need to be managed from Day 1. Having said that, Petone Rec should be back on the agenda as one of the options to be considered.
Have a look at Sonera Stadium in Helsinki. Capacity 10,700. It is a small stadium designed to have a big stadium atmosphere (the seats curve around the corners). It is right next door to the much bigger Olympic Stadium.
My gut feeling is that the best location is somewhere near the Cake Tin down on the wharfs. Let's not underestimate the importance of the transport connections and also being within walking distance of central Wellington. You could actually look at how the entire precinct can be brought to life as part of a whole package. The Cake Tin has always been a bit soulless because it feels like an unfinished project.
Having said that, you can also make a case to demolish the Cake Tin and start from scratch at the same site (while renovating the Basin Reserve for cricket). Let's be honest - the Cake Tin is a terribly designed venue for watching any sport you can think of.
If money was no object the ideal configuration would be to have three stadiums in Wellington. The Basin Reserve for cricket, a rectangular 12k seater for the Phoenix and the Hurricanes, and a rectangular 40+ seater for the big internationals (you could potentially combine the last two of those in a two tiered mega structure, but that would not give you the intimate atmosphere of a separate boutique venue for the smaller games, and it would not look good on TV).
Options analysis is what we need here... and a consolidated effort to find a solution.
As for the TV rights... I think there would be a flow on effect if you can get the stadium right. The stadium backdrop is a pretty big part of watching sport on TV. Over on the 442 forums a lot of the Aussies commented on how much more they liked watching the games played at the Hutt Rec. It seems trivial but it actually raises the value of the whole package. You will also get more Kiwis from outside of Wellington coming down for one game a year to see what it's all about, and then following the rest of the season at home on TV. If you put all of that together there is every possibility of a bidding war between Sky/Lightbox/Coliseum in 2017.
I look at that in part three, Junior82, about building support (in a wholly ASB context)
http://in-the-back-of-the.net/2015/10/28/we-are-bu...
The second is time. One game may hook some. For others it will take two, or three. Many will come and not come back. Some will dip in and out over years. But if the club is there, it’ll be there for them. They’ll bring their kids. Tradition gets established. There’s a reason why Wellington Phoenix want a ten year contract, it allows you to put down proper roots. For regional teams, it’s absolutely right that the club shifts around the region (like WaiBOP do), but others need a place to live. It’s the difference between owning an house or being on a twelve month rental contract, the latter doesn’t encourage you to decorate or make the place your own. Like I said before, eleven years is almost nothing in terms of establishing a football club. Time matters.
The Nix reference was put in BEFORE all this stuff started, it's not a dig. Time matters.
Time matters to build an inter-generational base. But why has the Nix in 8 years got a consistent base of 6k while Wharf has a consistent base of 6(0)?
Every time I've been to see Tee Dubs it's felt like a day out with the players mums & dads, partners, kids etc. - nice and laid back, but nothing that gets any real passion going. Even vs ACFC with Dave Farrington full it's "pleasant".
With the Nix it was an instant plucky Wgtn vs cocky Aussies and I must say that the Fever Zone made the difference (despite us being at the opposite end of the stadium for the first game).
Here in NZ the only times I get passionate at football are watching Jnr Jnr's team play (or maybe another team with his mates in it) and watching a bunch of professional players who I've never met before. I don't know why.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Please don't turn this thread into discussion on the pros and cons of joining Asia.
You wouldnt have had to post this if NZF was in the Asian confederation...
"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009
Mods, feel free to move, rename or whatever but.....
What are the realistic options going forward now?
1. Fold completely
2. Take the 4 years [if given] and hold out in the hope of a change of heart from FFA.
3. Some serious work put into a NZ pro or semi pro league or even an Oceania one with the Nix as part of it..
4. anything else
WelNix could play the current standoff with FFA as ‘double or nothing’. Reapply for a license – this time for a 20 year term - but with a condition to break ground on a purpose built stadium within four years. In a just world we wouldn't need to make that pledge but it might be a pragmatic way out of this. It gives us the security needed to build the new stadium.
The next challenge would be to deliver the stadium. The thing is that we do need a purpose built stadium to grow the club over the next 20 years. So we could actually bundle both problems together (FFA and stadium) and then tackle them head on.
Start with a robust piece of options analysis. The Mayor has shown support for Save The Nix so that is promising. Now we need a round table meeting between WelNix and the politicians. If there is a lesson to be learned from the Petone Rec saga it is that the stakeholder relationships need to be managed from Day 1. Having said that, Petone Rec should be back on the agenda as one of the options to be considered.
Have a look at Sonera Stadium in Helsinki. Capacity 10,700. It is a small stadium designed to have a big stadium atmosphere (the seats curve around the corners). It is right next door to the much bigger Olympic Stadium.
My gut feeling is that the best location is somewhere near the Cake Tin down on the wharfs. Let's not underestimate the importance of the transport connections and also being within walking distance of central Wellington. You could actually look at how the entire precinct can be brought to life as part of a whole package. The Cake Tin has always been a bit soulless because it feels like an unfinished project.
Having said that, you can also make a case to demolish the Cake Tin and start from scratch at the same site (while renovating the Basin Reserve for cricket). Let's be honest - the Cake Tin is a terribly designed venue for watching any sport you can think of.
If money was no object the ideal configuration would be to have three stadiums in Wellington. The Basin Reserve for cricket, a rectangular 12k seater for the Phoenix and the Hurricanes, and a rectangular 40+ seater for the big internationals (you could potentially combine the last two of those in a two tiered mega structure, but that would not give you the intimate atmosphere of a separate boutique venue for the smaller games, and it would not look good on TV).
Well lets have a working bee. Could probably knock this over in a few weekends provided theres enough refreshments in the chillibin and plenty of meat being charred on the bbq!
"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009
What are the substantive arguments against putting a boutique rectangular stadium next to the Cake Tin? Let's say the northern side for argument's sake. If WelNix/WCC/WRC/Wellington Regional Stadium were all working together what would be the significant obstacles?
Obstacles I can think of, with workarounds:
In the first instance I do actually think it is as simple as getting the right people in the room together. Charred BBQ is optional. Having said that I also think we need solid options analysis before we go too far down any new path. Lest we forget how the city got into this mess.
Below is what I posted in the alternative stadium thread last year. Basically instead of demolishing Westpac Stadium you rotate the pitch and build new stands (these stands are independent structures and could support a roof), you then move all cricket to the basin. Capacity would reduce but proper designs would be required to see by how much, but at least its a rectangle stadium and is more fit for what Wellington needs.
Here's another go at my idea for rotating the pitch 90 degrees at westpac and building two new stands blocking off the old ones. I found a model of the ring of fire in sketchup online, I've never used sketchup before so forgive how crap it is:
Top down view, you rotate the pitch 90 degrees, its aprox 120x70m it might be a bit close to the stands though so the first couple of rows may need to be demolished. You build two new stands as completely independent structures with their own roof, completely obscuring the old stands, but integrating into them visually.
The space behind the new stands are aprox 50x120m, although not very useable it could be event space of a venue space.
A view from inside the stadium, the curved stands at either end of the pitch are the original stands, the straight stands along the sides are the new ones that (as I said) completely obstruct the current end stands.
Another view of the new stands.
Yet another view, this is from the existing side stands (which become the end stands) and looking at the new stands.
This is behind the new stands, not very usable but you could potentially put a stage in there for an indoor venue (espeacially if you can demolish some of the old stands, otherwise it could be exhibition space, lecture space, bars, etc.
I like the way Melbourne has most of its stadiums next to each other. I don't know why we cant do the same.
Whats all that wood stored across the stadium for?
Turn Wainui into whatever that dock is for and BAM, space for box of fire. And the ring of fire is right there for when we hit and win the finals.
Anyone got a spare billion lying around? as my solution may cost a couple of bucks.
Ryan that is great stuff!
My concern is that the capacity might fall in a no-man's land between a boutique venue and a venue big enough for the WC qualifiers (if anything we want more capacity than what we have at the moment for those big matches). But your proposal should definitely be explored in more depth.
My logic is that what we need more than anything else is a pressure cooker atmosphere for the regular season A-League matches. These smaller games will account for over 80% of the games that a Wellington football fan attends.
At the other end of the scale there is a very slim chance that we could see a joint Australasian World Cup bid some day. I think the FIFA WC stadium requirement is for 40k+.
Is there any way we could convert the Cake Tin into a 40k+ rectangular venue? Ryan I guess you would be looking at completely rebuilding the roof at a higher level and raising those new stands back into that vacant space in your proposal? At what point is it cheaper to start from scratch?
Then build the small stadium next door at the same time.
By the way there were also some plans underway to renovate the concourse a few years ago:
And I posted this in the other thread... the abandoned plan for an indoor sports centre on top of the concourse (could be repurposed):
WCC has already spent $3m on the business case for the airport runway extension (and are prepared to commit $90m to what is certainly a non-essential project) so I don't see why they can't hire some architects to explore options for the stadium area. There was a study a while back about putting a roof on it - but that is hardly the crux of the problem. What we need is a more wide ranging piece of work that looks at the whole precinct on the basis that nothing is off the table.
Yeah, I guess you can make the new stands bigger, or even make them double deckers and then have the ability to block off the top row with curtains for the TV audience.
The reason I think this is a good idea is that the stadium is in the perfect location but its not the perfect stadium. And centreport is not going to be giving up port space to build another stadium. Centreport probably does more to the economy than a smaller stadium would.
If you rotate the pitch you can put temporary stands on one side while you build a main stand on the other, and then use the main stand while the other side is being constructed. Or if your really cheap don't put in temporary stands and make people sit in the existing stands which is now miles from the pitch. If you time it right and can build one of the main stands in less than a year then you won't get too much disruption at the sevens. Just put the party zone in the stands which are miles from the pitch.
But do we really need a 40k stadium? The Sevens don't sell out anymore - last year they were pretty much giving tickets away. You need 40k for a single all blacks test a year and the next time we get a major event like a rugby world cup which would be in another 20 years? In fact the NZ Government after the last rugby world cup said we simply can't bid for major international events anymore because they are too expensive.
One of the problems with the current stadium is it was built as cheaply as possible, hence no leeway in the design to hold up additional weight such as a roof. If you build the new stands with the idea of putting on a second tier in twenty years when we next get an event then you get the best of both worlds - you probably wouldn't put a roof on in that scenario.
There is talk of us joining the ASEAN super league with LionsXIII. Saaw an article on ESPN this morning. An interesting proposition as the travel costs would be steep but would still keep a New Zealand team (or maybe two?) in a competitive league.
The ASEAN superleague would be insane in terms of travel. I suppose they could have conferences andhave teams do mini tours (3 away games in a row or something ) but even so you're talking some serious distances there. And if the NZ market is seen as an annoying intrusion on Australian football surely we'd be even less relevant to SE-Asian fans.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
I love the energy and ideas of this thread but it should be re-titled Unrealistic Options. None of this stuff has a shark show chance in hell of happening without a 20 year licence. If we get that, then go for it - we need this thinking. Odds of getting 20 years? Prince of Penzance odds I'd say.
Kotahitanga. We are one.
Thought I'd post the link to the ESPN article on the Nix and LionsXIII in the ASEAN super league now that Ive managed to find it again:
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/football-asia/153/post/...
Just on the Asian Super league its not what the AFC want...
Copied from part of a Simon Hill article ... http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/well...
As things stand, Phoenix’s licence runs out at the end of the current season - but even if Welnix were prepared to go for the offer of the four-year extension, its success would not be guaranteed.
Muddying the waters are the “exemption” clauses needed from the NZFA, Oceania, AFC, and ultimately FIFA, for a non-AFC club to continue playing outside its own confederation.
The reason? AFC could soon face problems of its own, over a mooted ASEAN Super League. The countries involved - Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia - contain some clubs that are hugely in favour, but others aren’t so keen. AFC, keen to avoid conflict, may not want to set a precedent by offering a club an “opt-out” from its own domestic competition, as is currently the case with Wellington.
Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei
Just on the Asian Super league its not what the AFC want...
Copied from part of a Simon Hill article ... http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/well...
As things stand, Phoenix’s licence runs out at the end of the current season - but even if Welnix were prepared to go for the offer of the four-year extension, its success would not be guaranteed.
Muddying the waters are the “exemption” clauses needed from the NZFA, Oceania, AFC, and ultimately FIFA, for a non-AFC club to continue playing outside its own confederation.
The reason? AFC could soon face problems of its own, over a mooted ASEAN Super League. The countries involved - Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia - contain some clubs that are hugely in favour, but others aren’t so keen. AFC, keen to avoid conflict, may not want to set a precedent by offering a club an “opt-out” from its own domestic competition, as is currently the case with Wellington.
I think there is a big difference between allowing a club to play in a competition of a neighbouring country where all other teams are otherwise "local", and allowing a club to play in a new artificial international construct. The former has logical basis the latter would be an invitation for rich backers to form breakaway leagues not governed by the AFC or by OFC.
Both AFC and FIFA, and to a lesser degree OFC, said that they have no huge issue with WPX playing in A-League if the A-League wants us. The hurdle of licence extension rests on TV income generated by our membership, and if we sort it out we will be allowed to play on.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
So the FFA is now calling for 'firm proposals' from WelNix. That is good news.
Like I've said previously this is an opportunity to move forward on plans for a boutique stadium. Get WCC on board and get some momentum behind it. You could make the stadium conditional on a 20 year license and the license conditional on the stadium.
The major potential dealbreaker is the location. My instinct is that a site to the north of the Cake Tin could be a goer. As Ryan pointed out there might be an issue with the port giving up the land. But to my eye it *looks* like you could fit it in without disrupting the existing operations.
At the very least we need a full options analysis study on a new stadium. I won't be able to make it to the forum on Wednesday night but could someone please raise this issue if there is an opportunity.
The major potential dealbreaker is the location. My instinct is that a site to the north of the Cake Tin could be a goer. As Ryan pointed out there might be an issue with the port giving up the land. But to my eye it *looks* like you could fit it in without disrupting the existing operations.
At the very least we need a full options analysis study on a new stadium. I won't be able to make it to the forum on Wednesday night but could someone please raise this issue if there is an opportunity.
A new Stadium will not happen. There is all but zero appetite for it at any of the Four Councils or Regional Council.
Do you also think Centre Port will give up land?
If Athletic Park was not such a crumbling rusting mess that was simply uneconomic to fix and because it could not be a "multi Purpose stadium" there would be no Westpac Stadium.
The only way it will happen is if a Meteor takes out Westpac Stadium.
The major potential dealbreaker is the location. My instinct is that a site to the north of the Cake Tin could be a goer. As Ryan pointed out there might be an issue with the port giving up the land. But to my eye it *looks* like you could fit it in without disrupting the existing operations.
At the very least we need a full options analysis study on a new stadium. I won't be able to make it to the forum on Wednesday night but could someone please raise this issue if there is an opportunity.
You missed the point. The idea is that a new stadium could be the way to save the Phoenix if it convinces FFA to grant a 20 year license. WCC is considering spending $90m on an airport extension that is a 'nice to have' rather than a 'must have', so the usual line about 'who's going to pay for it?' doesn't make sense. WelNix were also happy to put up cash for the Petone Rec proposal.
A new Stadium will not happen. There is all but zero appetite for it at any of the Four Councils or Regional Council.
Do you also think Centre Port will give up land?
If Athletic Park was not such a crumbling rusting mess that was simply uneconomic to fix and because it could not be a "multi Purpose stadium" there would be no Westpac Stadium.
The only way it will happen is if a Meteor takes out Westpac Stadium.
How do you know there is no appetite for it in the councils? All it needs is one key player to back the idea and then it is game on. I see no reason why Celia Wade-Brown or her deputy Justin Lester wouldn't take a look at it.
As for Centre Port - do we know for sure that they own (or desperately need) that land? I'm talking about the land directly north of the Cake Tin and west of Aotea Quay. On Google maps it looks like an old railyard. How did we manage to free up land for the Cake Tin in the first place?
