Wellington Phoenix Men

Hope it Helps

83 replies · 3,290 views
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hope it Helps

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

YF

 

Without any malice or disrespect intended I would like to say that football in Australia has moved on a lot over the past 20 years and NZ has stood still. This is not the fault of anyone in particular rather than I think the realization in Australia by business and government of what football has to offer both on and off the field. However the growth (media, and major league) in football over the past four years has been breathtaking.

 

The question is why, football has always had the most number of juniors, and over the past 12 or so years had 200 odd players in overseas leagues. Two words Asia & Potential.

 

First Asia.

 

What does Asia bring to Australia, and more importantly what could Asian bring to the Nix. My starting point is the size of Asia, remember in football that the Middle East is included in the AFC.

 

Assuming the Nix make the top two in the league table they will play in the pan Asian games broadcast across Asia & North America

 

Size just over 5.1 billion people less India and the Philippines 1.3 billion, leaving 3.8 billion people within AFC.

 

Its exciting isn�t it so lets number crunch this figure.

 

3.8 Billion

 

10% of 3.8 billion is 380 million

 

1% of 3.8 billion is 38 million

 

10% of 1% is 3.8 million

 

100th of 1 % is 380, 000 people which as a fraction is 0.0001 fairly small even the most conservative of accountants and business and governments hopefully would recognize this is small in the extreme.

 

Stas show that international tourist often travel in pairs or groups, so of the above figure we can add and again very conservatively a constant of 2.4. Again lets assume a low figure but an international tourist spent about $ 1, 750 per week and if they travel as far as NZ a 1.5 week is the norm.

 

So here we go, here we go (sorry it is a football site)

 

380, 000 people times 2.4 times 1, 750 times 1.5 equals 2,349,000,000  dollars  or 2.35 billion

 

10% GST collections equals  234,900,000 or over a quarter of a billion dollars.

 

Assume much of the money is paid in wages again assume a low tax rate of 10% and another 234, 900, 000 million. Combined over half a billion dollars in tax alone which would build the odd school or pay for the odd bridge.

 

Lets say my already conservative figures are way over stated by a factor of four, even at a quarter of what I said the Asian input is still over 100 million.

 

Now lets add to that the North American income, CAN YOU HERE THE NIX SING����.BEEHIVE�����..NO   NOOOOOOOOOO���.I SAY AGAIN ����.CAN YOU HERE THE NIX SING �����HOPEFULLY �����YERRRRRRRRRRRR.

 

On top of this is the business it may open up, I mean who in there right mind would want to sit at the table with the cream of Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Middle Eastern & North American business and government heavyweights. ANYONE WITH EVEN HALF A BRAIN, even a rugby official.

 

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you ask what are; the Australian governments doing? ? ? ?

 

Commonwealth government   8 million per year to fund juniors and women�s league,

                                                 3.5 million in AIS (Australian Institute of Sport cost for   

                                                                                 Olympic and top players)

State Governments                   5 million combined (Sports development programs

                                                                                   aimed at the best juniors)

                                                  About 4 million per Socceroo match paid by state gov

                                                   So the cities are beamed back into Asia. 5 home

                                                   matches per year. Cites are in a bidding war for

                                                   Socceroo matches.

 

All up about 8 + 3.5 + 5 + 20, or 36.5 million per year and growing. Five years ago maybe 1.5 million. BEEHIVE DOES THIS SCREAM AT YOU �����CAN YOU HERE THE NIX SING.

 

Big business is getting on board.

 

Beehive if you put about 3 million into the Nix�s, you could earn maybe half a billion in return, put another say 8 million into your juniors the returns are massive and far in excess of anything either rugby or yachting could even come close to.

 

Potential

 

NZ business and Government officials and pollies sit at the table with the cream of Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Middle Eastern & North American business and government heavyweights.

 

Impossible to put a figure on trade, influence, positioning, �anyway you look at it,�it is huge.

 

Over to you guys at YF hope it helps but as an Aussies that wants you to be successful (apart from when you play the Mariners) you could do with some help. The only reason our government is helping is because over time we kept putting forward arguments based on logic and figures and in time it worked. Soccer mums helped a lot to in becoming almost a demographic in themselves. I hope the Beehive will listen to you good luck and hope it helps.

 

Your�s in Football

 

Midfielder

 

Last words Go the Mariners  F the Scum (still have not got over it so don�t ask)

Midfielder2008-03-06 22:52:05

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can someone please summarise this into 25 words or less. Ta.

Three for me, and two for them.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Midfielder, don't you have a Mariner's forum to play in?
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
where there's muck football there's brass
 
(2O left for someone else to have a go)
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
phil_style wrote:
Midfielder, don't you have a Mariner's forum to play in?
 
Midfielder's alright, he talks more sense than a few on here (albeit with more words )
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Not to mention:
 
1. The number of A-League teams playing in the Asian Champions League each season looks likely to increase from 2 to 4. I personally will be spewing next season when the Phoenix qualify only to be ineligible and I suspect many of the rest of us will be too.
 
2. The AFC has a commercial partner in place (World Sports Group - one of the World's leading Sports Marketing agencies), there are ambitious plans to commercialise the Asian Champions League further and prize money is set to dramatically increase.
 
If the NZ Govt had any brains they would support A1GP and Football.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
Can someone please summarise this into 25 words or less. Ta.
 
NZ gove spend 8 million get in 500 million.
 
 

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
(I was off topic)
Bevan2008-03-06 23:11:41
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Here we go again...

Three for me, and two for them.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
phil_style wrote:
Midfielder, don't you have a Mariner's forum to play in?
 
This was all about the Nix .............don't be like that.............I am trying to help and showing how number are put together.
 
Listening ............. 5.1 billion people take off those that dont play gives you a reach of 3.8 billion people, if you can make the top 2.
 
Go to your gov and say look at the POTENTIAL.................nothing to do with Mariners.........so get F ...........and read next time.

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Alright folks, I'm laying down the law here.

1, Discussion on Phoenix to the O-League is in the NZFC forum. NOT here.  There is enough stupid in there to last me a lifetime I don't need it spreading.  Any more talk on that in here WILL be deleted.

2, Midfielder, please try and change your posts to a smaller font.  Some of this is nearly impossible to read on a forum format.

That is all.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Alright folks, I'm laying down the law here.

1, Discussion on Phoenix to the O-League is in the NZFC forum. NOT here.  There is enough stupid in there to last me a lifetime I don't need it spreading.  Any more talk on that in here WILL be deleted.

2, Midfielder, please try and change your posts to a smaller font.  Some of this is nearly impossible to read on a forum format.

That is all.
 
Sorry changed font to 1, on your site, typed it in word maybe that was the problem and copied it over.  If front size still wrong let me know and I will change
 
Also sorry about the rant but got a little hot under the collar when questioned about why I put it up.
 
Bye the bye its not about the O-League or A-league its about the Nix's being able to mount a reason for a fair share of government funding. 
 
 
Midfielder2008-03-06 22:57:26

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I kinda agree HN (Is it allowed to have a different opinion than banstick wielding mod?), its more about Nix becoming the rather poor cousins in the near near future, while NZ govt sits back and goes oh well we give you lots of money through SPARC and lalalalalalalallalarugbyyacthinglalalalaalalala....

over here I say New Chealandu and half of them say Hiddink! cos they think I said Netherlands (or at least somebody did yesterday)  and we're a little off the radar...or they laugh when I say how happy I am to have our fifa rating up to 91 or whatever it is now...
 
...politics and rants feel wrong but the people who do them well get a lot of good football and maybe the soccer world cup...it kinda sucks....


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Midfielder wrote:
phil_style wrote:
Midfielder, don't you have a Mariner's forum to play in?
 
 get F ...........and read next time.
 
he he.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
Can someone please summarise this into 25 words or less. Ta.


If you read Asterix when they go into the Menhir business:

big heapa people like football big heap good football play gunna be heap big money savvy?
Australia big time savvy New Zealand big time head down south where the sun don't shine...like Antarctica



martinb2008-03-06 23:29:53


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The NZ Government will suddenly become interested when the FFA's bid for the 2018 WorldCup gets into gear!!!
 
By then it will be too late!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago


couldn't find one with a little smily face wacking its head against the wall.. too true mate...Terry for PM! Parliament to be shifted to the ring of fire and voting eligibilty is determined by membership of yellow fever or attendance at 'Nix games!


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
This is way off topic...but I think it's fascinating nonetheless....
 
Total registered South Korean male football players (2006):
19,058
 
Total registered NZ male football players:
I don't f**king know.  19,058 x10 perhaps?
 
So what's our problem?  How can we fix things Midfielder?  Firstly...
 
Ban this kind of sh*t.
 
Get this guy off the dance floor and back on the airwaves again.
 
The Nix to get on a roll...and modern day replay of this would certainly be handy.
 
f**k, if nothing else...by beating these guys later today.
 
Then the $$$ might start flowing in like water...
 
Regards.
 
Stevo
Stevo2008-03-07 01:04:48
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If the guys who convinced the government that we would make heaps of money in boat building, out of the millions they spewed into Team NZ's americas cup farce, could be hired by the NZFA then we would be sweet.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
martinb wrote:


couldn't find one with a little smily face wacking its head against the wall.. too true mate...Terry for PM! Parliament to be shifted to the ring of fire and voting eligibilty is determined by membership of yellow fever or attendance at 'Nix games!
 
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
was just looking for that one myself!
Midfielders right though, football has huge potential to attract heaps of people with loads dosh! if we (meaning NZ) can tap into even a 100th of this pool then several things happen - economy goes up, and football quality goes up! this has got to be good for all.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Midfielder is sort of right.
 
However he has a very short memory.  It's a common Australian personality trait in my experience.
 
The ONLY thing that has brought Australian football forward in leaps and bounds in the last few years is Frank Lowy and his truckloads of cash.
 
Going back even to the start of this decade Soccer Australia was a joke, the overseas players wouldn't play for the national team, we beat you to qualify for the Confeds Cup, and the NSL was completely bankrupt - morally and financially.
 
In comes Frank with bottomless pockets and suddenly things can be made to happen.  You jump ship to Asia on the back of Westfields' promises to certain AFC members.  FFA towers hires competent people and Franky bankrolls a new league and a properly equipped national setup with a respected international manager.  You do well at the World Cup consequently.
 
None of this is attributable to Australia waking up to the world game.  In fact the reverse is true.  Until Lowy thrust it in their faces average Aussies couldn't even spell football.  I watched Euro 2004 in Sydney and in Balmain precisely NOBODY was showing the games - except for the Balmain Leagues Club and they opened up for the gamblers to come in and showed the games with the commentary off.  It drew a crowd of about six.
 
Australia has lept ahead of us for now - sure - but have a look at how quickly things have changed over there and why and be grateful for the rich benefactor you've got.  Don't come on here and moralise or I'll give you the big f**k off banstick.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Midfielder is sort of right.
 
However he has a very short memory.  It's a common Australian personality trait in my experience.
 
The ONLY thing that has brought Australian football forward in leaps and bounds in the last few years is Frank Lowy and his truckloads of cash.
 
Going back even to the start of this decade Soccer Australia was a joke, the overseas players wouldn't play for the national team, we beat you to qualify for the Confeds Cup, and the NSL was completely bankrupt - morally and financially.
 
In comes Frank with bottomless pockets and suddenly things can be made to happen.  You jump ship to Asia on the back of Westfields' promises to certain AFC members.  FFA towers hires competent people and Franky bankrolls a new league and a properly equipped national setup with a respected international manager.  You do well at the World Cup consequently.
 
None of this is attributable to Australia waking up to the world game.  In fact the reverse is true.  Until Lowy thrust it in their faces average Aussies couldn't even spell football.  I watched Euro 2004 in Sydney and in Balmain precisely NOBODY was showing the games - except for the Balmain Leagues Club and they opened up for the gamblers to come in and showed the games with the commentary off.  It drew a crowd of about six.
 
Australia has lept ahead of us for now - sure - but have a look at how quickly things have changed over there and why and be grateful for the rich benefactor you've got.  Don't come on here and moralise or I'll give you the big f**k off banstick.
 
I concur
rodfarva2008-03-07 11:05:07
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agree completely.  Back in your box midfielder.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
 
The ONLY thing that has brought Australian football forward in leaps and bounds in the last few years is Frank Lowy and his truckloads of cash. On a smaller scale (and in a club context) we have Terry - the challenge is for NZ football to build on this  - the opposite of what happened after the spark of the 82 world cup.
 
 
In comes Frank with bottomless pockets and suddenly things can be made to happen.  You jump ship to Asia on the back of Westfields' promises to certain AFC members.  FFA towers hires competent people (not a bad idea) and Franky bankrolls a new league and a properly equipped national setup with a respected international manager.  You do well at the World Cup consequently.
 
None of this is attributable to Australia waking up to the world game.  In fact the reverse is true.  Until Lowy thrust it in their faces average Aussies couldn't even spell football.  (But now they are building on the success Lowy generated - and have government support. Can we do the same, even if on a smaller scale?)
 
Australia has lept ahead of us for now - sure - but have a look at how quickly things have changed over there and why and be grateful for the rich benefactor you've got.  Don't come on here and moralise (maybe I misread the guy, but i think midfielder is more about encouraging us than about rubbing our noses in it - i could be wrong but his ideas (if a little repetitive ) do have some relevance to NZ's situation and at least get us thinking about the big picture) or I'll give you the big f**k off banstick.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It does end up being a little patronizing at times... sometimes you feel some Australian posters seem to think we only discovered Aus football 12 months ago, when in fact many of them never gave a toss prior to 2005 and we've followed it better than they have.

(Note, not necessarily calling midfielder in this group).

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
fair enough, i can see where Smithy might be coming from, and it does feel a bit dodgy sticking up for an Ocker
 
i suppose if we can learn anything from their 'good luck' then we might as well do so
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:
martinb wrote:


couldn't find one with a little smily face wacking its head against the wall.. too true mate...Terry for PM! Parliament to be shifted to the ring of fire and voting eligibilty is determined by membership of yellow fever or attendance at 'Nix games!
 
 
cheers ubergunner!


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Midfielder is sort of right.
 
However he has a very short memory.  It's a common Australian personality trait in my experience.
 
The ONLY thing that has brought Australian football forward in leaps and bounds in the last few years is Frank Lowy and his truckloads of cash.
 
Going back even to the start of this decade Soccer Australia was a joke, the overseas players wouldn't play for the national team, we beat you to qualify for the Confeds Cup, and the NSL was completely bankrupt - morally and financially.
 
In comes Frank with bottomless pockets and suddenly things can be made to happen.  You jump ship to Asia on the back of Westfields' promises to certain AFC members.  FFA towers hires competent people and Franky bankrolls a new league and a properly equipped national setup with a respected international manager.  You do well at the World Cup consequently.
 
None of this is attributable to Australia waking up to the world game.  In fact the reverse is true.  Until Lowy thrust it in their faces average Aussies couldn't even spell football.  I watched Euro 2004 in Sydney and in Balmain precisely NOBODY was showing the games - except for the Balmain Leagues Club and they opened up for the gamblers to come in and showed the games with the commentary off.  It drew a crowd of about six.
 
Australia has lept ahead of us for now - sure - but have a look at how quickly things have changed over there and why and be grateful for the rich benefactor you've got.  Don't come on here and moralise or I'll give you the big f**k off banstick.
 
Sorry Smithy have to disagree...I feel midfielder is doing is giving us information about what governments are doing over there with the intention of us being informed when we get messages like this:
 
Dear Martin

Thank you for your emails of 7 and 29 November 2007.  I am pleased to have received the Sport and Recreation portfolio and in doing so I will be supporting the sporting sector as a whole.

Sport and Recreation New Zealand (SPARC) is the government agency responsible for promoting, encouraging and supporting physical recreation and sport.  SPARC currently invests funding and support for New Zealand Football as it is recognised as a national sporting organisation.  The rationale for this funding is that the organisation has the capability to increase the participation of New Zealanders and it can achieve consistent success.  I agree with you that it would be great to see the All Whites qualify for the World Cup.  

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Yours sincerely

Hon Clayton Cosgrove
Minister for Sport and Recreation
 
 I was able to write back with the stats that midfielder provided and point out that the Federal gov. is going very much above and beyond that, and the state governements too, and what are you doing about it mate?. I don't think midfielder is looking down on us, but likes what YF is about, and wants us/The Phoenix/NZ Football to get the government backing that is deserved for the game.
 
fair call?


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Midfielder = authoritative...
 
 
Ha ha yeah right.  The guy just pulls sh*t out of his arse and says "australia is awesome you guys in new zealand could learn a lot from us".
 
Full of bollocks.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sue_Donem wrote:
Midfielder = authoritative...
 
 
Ha ha yeah right.  The guy just pulls sh*t out of his arse and says "australia is awesome you guys in new zealand could learn a lot from us".
 
Full of bollocks.
 
No but links to the policies of the Australian Labour party and their rationale for doing so is, as is the rationale for attempting a world cup bid...
 
I personally think midfielder is A) much closer to what is happening in NZ
  and                                         B) been a long standing contributor to the YF
 
so it is worth us engaging with someone who is that passionate about football...
 


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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
To summarize what midfielder is saying.
Investment in football pays better dividends for the country than investing in other sports.
SPARC funding is based on a continued ability to win medal's & tournaments, but doesn't fund sports that need help to achieve this. You already have to have achieved something before you go to SPARC and ask for cash.
The NZFA other than the 82 WC don't have anything significant to go to SPARC with. We sent teams to most age group and the womens world cup's in the last 18 months and barely got any results, so the government purse will stay shut until further notice for football in NZ, unless it becomes an election topic, the nboth national & labor will fall over each other to promise football money.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Those stats he pulled out are purely hyperthetical.
 
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice however, they are not.
 
The prospect that he is banking on of converting asian football supporters into Nix fans who would come her as tourists purely for that reason is ludacris. Switch it around - if a J League team played here, would you suddenly become a fan and want to got there to watch them and pay money to the support them? They've got better football in their own backyard.
 
And Ozzie soccer isn't lightyears ahead as he indicates.
 
Regarding the comment above, what would be enough of a result to warrent SPARC footing the youth team bill? If we made the Grand Final next season for example, would that be enough potential/success shown?
hellobeaver2008-03-07 15:43:07
Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Midfielder is sort of right.
 
However he has a very short memory.  It's a common Australian personality trait in my experience.
 
The ONLY thing that has brought Australian football forward in leaps and bounds in the last few years is Frank Lowy and his truckloads of cash.
 
Going back even to the start of this decade Soccer Australia was a joke, the overseas players wouldn't play for the national team, we beat you to qualify for the Confeds Cup, and the NSL was completely bankrupt - morally and financially.
 
In comes Frank with bottomless pockets and suddenly things can be made to happen.  You jump ship to Asia on the back of Westfields' promises to certain AFC members.  FFA towers hires competent people and Franky bankrolls a new league and a properly equipped national setup with a respected international manager.  You do well at the World Cup consequently.
 
None of this is attributable to Australia waking up to the world game.  In fact the reverse is true.  Until Lowy thrust it in their faces average Aussies couldn't even spell football.  I watched Euro 2004 in Sydney and in Balmain precisely NOBODY was showing the games - except for the Balmain Leagues Club and they opened up for the gamblers to come in and showed the games with the commentary off.  It drew a crowd of about six.
 
Australia has lept ahead of us for now - sure - but have a look at how quickly things have changed over there and why and be grateful for the rich benefactor you've got.  Don't come on here and moralise or I'll give you the big f**k off banstick.
 
Smithy and others
 
I am sorry if you mis read my email, all I wanted to do was to provide you with some facts so you could develop these into something to present to your government.
 
To correct you on a couple of points, Frank Lowy apart from Sydney has put in no money into the A-League nor into the Socceroos, he has organised a lot of money and regular like in years to come from various bodies. For that I am very grateful for his efforts. In fact he has said many times if football in Australia needs him to support it then he will have failed his goal is to have football being able to pay its own way without any help from Frank.
 
You are very correct when you said that pre Frank Lowy football in Australia was a basket case. It was close to the worst mangered sporting body of its size in the world. Corupt also, back handers you name it and then double it and double it agian thats how bad it was.
 
But post Frank we are starting to get media in serious amounts, and heaps of government funding and a lot of business involvement. The reason Asian & potential but also years of pushing by ordinary people on talk back, via letters etc.
 
As I said in my orginal post about 36 million in funding each year now and agian in my post and about 1.5 million before.
 
Sorry I was not trying to stir nor was any malice intended, and if it read like that I am sorry.
 
HOWEVER IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT WITH THAT SROT OF MONEY COMING IN AND WHY IT IS COMING IN .................MAYBE YOU CAN ARGUE FOR SOME FUNDING.
 
Repeating the simple logic 3.8 billion people watch, and there is little Wellie being shown, and to many Asian countries not that far away.
 
However if you are not interested I will hit the delete key on my Data Base financial Model and will post no more on this topic. 
 
 
Midfielder2008-03-07 16:04:21

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Data Base financial Model?

You're having a laugh.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:

Data Base financial Model?

You're having a laugh.

 
No

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm intrigued.
 
Is this the same Data Base Financial Model that says that if the Phoenix were playing in the ACL New Zealand would reap a quarter of a billion dollars in additional tourist income?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Midfielder, I applaud your optimism, and agree it would be great to put a sound case to Govt to get more direct funding into football.

Have to admit though that I find the way you interpret figures stretches credibility.

As an example, I find it difficult to work out where the 3.8 billion comes from, and just because the league might be available to be watched by a huge population, it doesnt follow that it will be, there are thousands of other choices out there hepatitis2008-03-07 16:32:16
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Stop with the Banstick sh*t..
Midfielders comments are sound and reasonable. We need some success to gain traction.
Our media No 1 sport has a real apathy problem, if we could just qualify for the Olympics/World Cup.
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