Wellington Phoenix Men

Man of the Match vs Jets

128 replies · 1,182 views
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ok I agree moss made some great saves which kept us in the game so he deserves man of the   match but also worthy of a mention were smeltz.....stunning first goal and Super Leo.
 
 But to me Daniel playing a full game showed what we have been missing in attack. He put in some excellent crosses, his positional play was great and he linked in well on attack with Leo. But more importantly he never died with the ball...nearly always got a good constructive pass away or a cross. This is something our other midfielders, Hearfield especially have to learn. For the third game in a row our midfield have been outplayed!
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yes after last night I am not sure if we will use McKain anytime soon if Ricki prefers to use the formation we used last night.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
McKain should walk back in.  That first half was a defensive shambles without McKain clearing up in front of the back four and for me Daniel offered nothing more than Hearfield does and vindicated his recent bench spot.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Ok people are not looking at what I said clearly heres some facts:

Moss has played 9.5 games and conceded 17 goals
Paston has played 8.5 games and conceded 10 goals

Now someone try explain to me what makes Moss the better keeper, you have to remember that shot-stopping isn't the only thing that makes a keeper.
 
Before you go spouting cherry picked stats you should have a look at a few other factors that contribute towards goals conceded.  I'd like to know how many of those are genuinely Moss's fault. 
 
Without going and looking at every goal conceded you could start with looking at who they were conceded against, whether it was home or away, who else played (especially at the back) and the form of those players. 
 
For example when Moss conceded 4 (of the 6) in the Adelaide game the whole team had an absolute shocker, especially as they were pushing forward for an equaliser and then chasing the game. 
 
And in game 2 and 3, when the whole team was all at sea, Moss conceded 4 to Melbourne and 3 to Adelaide.  Without actually going back to look at the actual goals I think it's pretty harsh to look at VERY simple statistics such as goals conceded per game to evaluate the quality of 2 keepers. 
 
Get over it and give the guy some credit where it's due.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah but in the first half Paston had the same conditions. People also need to stop using the line of "It's not Moss's fault" well if he can't organize the defence then yeah, it is actually his fault even if it doesn't look like it.

Also I am not saying Moss is crap I am just saying I think we are better under Paston I admit that Moss is a better shot-stopper but thats not the only thing you have to look at.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The holes in the middle of our defence last night were more to do with a lack of communication between Dodd and Sigmund than anything that Moss was or wasn't doing.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
The holes in the middle of our defence last night were more to do with a lack of communication between Dodd and Sigmund than anything that Moss was or wasn't doing.
Yeah but 1 occasion doesn't explain 17 goals in 9.5 games however.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Are you seriously saying that every one of those goals was Moss's fault? I'd go back and read energy24.7's post again.

I've seen nothing all season to suggest that Paston is a better 'organiser' than Moss, or vice versa.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:

Are you seriously saying that every one of those goals was Moss's fault? I'd go back and read energy24.7's post again.


I've seen nothing all season to suggest that Paston is a better 'organiser' than Moss, or vice versa.
Once again people need to stop making excuses for Moss and you can also say the same excuse for Pastons goals.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Moss for that first half.

Terrible first half by all, then Ricki reads the riot act and the 2nd half was brilliant. Honorably mention to Smeltz(two goals), Hearfield(two assists), Daniel(finally some spark in midfield and tracked back well), Muscat, Dodd and Siggy and SuperLeo(should've got a penalty).

Ferrante was pretty useless, didn't do a hell of a lot all game I thought, same with Lochead, not impressed at all.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Yeah but in the first half Paston had the same conditions. People also need to stop using the line of "It's not Moss's fault" well if he can't organize the defence then yeah, it is actually his fault even if it doesn't look like it.

Also I am not saying Moss is crap I am just saying I think we are better under Paston I admit that Moss is a better shot-stopper but thats not the only thing you have to look at.
 
That is the most ridiculous post i've ever seen.
 
Seriously, you've got issues.
 
Get your finger out of Paston's ass, you're embarrassing yourself.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wingback4eva wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Yeah but in the first half Paston had the same conditions. People also need to stop using the line of "It's not Moss's fault" well if he can't organize the defence then yeah, it is actually his fault even if it doesn't look like it. Also I am not saying Moss is crap I am just saying I think we are better under Paston I admit that Moss is a better shot-stopper but thats not the only thing you have to look at.

�

That is the most ridiculous post i've ever seen.

�

Seriously, you've got issues.

�

Get your finger out of Paston's ass, you're embarrassing yourself.
How is it ridiculous just because you can't think why its not right?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Its ridiculous because you cant think why what your saying is not right


Allegedly

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So basically what you guys are saying is Moss has goals scored against him that are not his fault and Paston doesn't?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
wingback4eva wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Yeah but in the first half Paston had the same conditions. People also need to stop using the line of "It's not Moss's fault" well if he can't organize the defence then yeah, it is actually his fault even if it doesn't look like it. Also I am not saying Moss is crap I am just saying I think we are better under Paston I admit that Moss is a better shot-stopper but thats not the only thing you have to look at.

 

That is the most ridiculous post i've ever seen.

 

Seriously, you've got issues.

 

Get your finger out of Paston's ass, you're embarrassing yourself.
How is it ridiculous just because you can't think why its not right?
 
Give it up.
 
Have you ever played football?
 
Defenders aren't just puppets that the keeper controls. They have a job to do as well.
 
A keeper can only do so much organising, the defenders have to use their own brains as well.
 
You sound exactly like every other Moss hater on here. You claim every goal is Moss' fault because he doesn't "organise". You can't see the fact he makes world class saves most games. The only thing I think Paston is slightly better at is kicking. Tell me, whose fault was Paston's howler against Sydney??
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wingback4eva wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
wingback4eva wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Yeah but in the first half Paston had the same conditions. People also need to stop using the line of "It's not Moss's fault" well if he can't organize the defence then yeah, it is actually his fault even if it doesn't look like it. Also I am not saying Moss is crap I am just saying I think we are better under Paston I admit that Moss is a better shot-stopper but thats not the only thing you have to look at.

�

That is the most ridiculous post i've ever seen.

�

Seriously, you've got issues.

�

Get your finger out of Paston's ass, you're embarrassing yourself.
How is it ridiculous just because you can't think why its not right?

�

Give it up.

�

Have you ever played football?

�

Defenders aren't just puppets that the keeper controls. They have a job to do as well.

�

A keeper can only do so much organising, the defenders have to use their own brains as well.

�

You sound exactly like every other Moss hater on here. You claim every goal is Moss' fault because he doesn't "organise". You can't see the fact he makes world class saves most games. The only thing I think Paston is slightly better at is kicking. Tell me, whose fault was Paston's howler against Sydney??
Everyone just remembers that one mistake by Paston and I never said Paston was a better shot-stopper then Paston. But don't you remember Moss vs Melbourne and Adelaide last year? wellyphoenixfan2009-01-05 14:18:16
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
This is a MOM thread.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well there is no Moss vs Paston thread.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Moss 62 [77.50%]
Heavily disagreed with

Allegedly

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You missed the point.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

no, enlighten us on Moss chronic lack of communication skills that seems to have you believing that, in spite of his word class saves and numerous MOM performances, he's infact 'the most overrated keeper in the league'

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
<TABLE =tableBorder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 align=center>
<T>
<TR =ableRow>
<TD><LABEL for=P2352>Moss</LABEL></TD>
<TD align=middle>62</TD>
<TD =smText noWrap> [77.50%]</TD></TR></T></TABLE>

Heavily disagreed with
Yes well people prefer to see flashy dives then seeing a organized defence that has conceded only 10 goals in 8.5 games.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
give it up. Or make a seperate thread to flirt with paston in

Allegedly

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well, hasn't this degenerated in to a pile of Stupid.

We've got two keepers, they're both good.  This is good for New Zealand football and excellent for the Phoenix.

End.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
luggsy06 wrote:

no, enlighten us on Moss chronic lack of communication skills that seems to have you believing that, in spite of his word class saves and numerous MOM performances, he's infact 'the most overrated keeper in the league'

Have you ever wondered why Paston rarely needs to make these "wolrd-class" saves? What other explantion is there for it?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
there are a number of reasons why a keeper in one game is forced to make more/harder saves than a keeper in another game
 
there are also a number of reasons as to why no one is agreeing with you
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
So basically what you guys are saying is Moss has goals scored against him that are not his fault and Paston doesn't?
 
No one has ever said anything like that (you're the only one doing that in reverse).  All we're saying is Moss had a good game and made some cracking saves.  You're the one that jumped all over him.
 
If you hadn't noticed I have never once stated my preference for either keeper, I was merely rebuffing your stupid argument about blaming Moss for all 17 goals.
 
Like I said, unless you go and analyse every goal conceded and point out exactly how they were the keepers fault your argument is useless.
 
I'll say it again, give Moss some credit where it's due.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I never blamed Moss for all 17 but I just think its abit strange that he has conceded such a large amount compared to Paston if he is such a great keeper, but I am not going to keep up this argument 'cause News said so and I will never be able to convince you and vice-versa.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You basically do blame Moss for the 17 otherwise you wouldn't go quoting those stats.  It's like saying that Paston is better than David James just because he has a lower ratio of goals conceded to games.  You need to delve further before using useless statistics in your argument. 
 
Until you have some actual analysis to proove your theory (because that's all it is at the moment) I think it wise you give it a rest.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well im not carrying on this conversation in here because News could bring out the banstick so unless you can be bothered making a Paston vs Moss thread I won't bother continuing this but remember that the facts are with me, I have provided evidence that Paston is better all you guys have done is say "There not Moss's fault" etc which isn't good enough.

Btw people are using "world-class" way to much you honestly think Moss could play in the top European leagues? Thats what world class is.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Well im not carrying on this conversation in here because News could bring out the banstick so unless you can be bothered making a Paston vs Moss thread I won't bother continuing this but remember that the facts are with me, I have provided evidence that Paston is better all you guys have done is say "There not Moss's fault" etc which isn't good enough.

Btw people are using "world-class" way to much you honestly think Moss could play in the top European leagues? Thats what world class is.
 
  Must have missed that post

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Well im not carrying on this conversation in here because News could bring out the banstick so unless you can be bothered making a Paston vs Moss thread I won't bother continuing this but remember that the facts are with me, I have provided evidence that Paston is better all you guys have done is say "There not Moss's fault" etc which isn't good enough. Btw people are using "world-class" way to much you honestly think Moss could play in the top European leagues? Thats what world class is.

�

� Must have missed that post
The goals thing but I think you knew that anyway...
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Just read my f**king posts you moron and there'll be no need for any thread. energy24.72009-01-05 15:11:04
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
energy24.7 wrote:
Just read my f**king posts you moron and there'll be no need for any thread.
Your posts summed up: "It's not Moss's fault"
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm beginning to think this is just a wind up because nobody could seriously be this stupid.
 
The guy knows nothing about football.
 
I'm done with this now. End.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ah not quite.
 
My posts summed up "your stats are sh*t and don't do anything to provide evidence that Paston is better"
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wingback4eva wrote:
I'm beginning to think this is just a wind up because nobody could seriously be this stupid.
�

The guy knows nothing about football.

�

I'm done with this now. End.
It's not, im serious though perhaps my last post was. But think of it like this ask yourself these questions:
1) Does our defence play better under Paston?
2) Why?
3) Why have we conceded less goals under Paston?
4) If Moss's saves last night were world-class then what were Pastons vs Adelaide?

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
MOM mossy, we will see how good Paston is next season.
Smeltz's goal was all class we better find a "world class" stiker to replace him
Daniel gave us the extra dimension going forward and it is good to have siggy back.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
wingback4eva wrote:
I'm beginning to think this is just a wind up because nobody could seriously be this stupid.
 

The guy knows nothing about football.

 

I'm done with this now. End.
It's not, im serious though perhaps my last post was. But think of it like this ask yourself these questions:
1) Does our defence play better under Paston?
2) Why?
3) Why have we conceded less goals under Paston?
4) If Moss's saves last night were world-class then what were Pastons vs Adelaide?

 
 
                                    
Sorry Mrs Paston, don't mean to be rude, but I've had enough.  I'll hurt myself if I laugh any more.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
wingback4eva wrote:
I'm beginning to think this is just a wind up because nobody could seriously be this stupid.
�

The guy knows nothing about football.

�

I'm done with this now. End.
It's not, im serious though perhaps my last post was. But think of it like this ask yourself these questions: 1) Does our defence play better under Paston? 2) Why? 3) Why have we conceded less goals under Paston? 4) If Moss's saves last night were world-class then what were Pastons vs Adelaide?
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Sorry Mrs Paston, don't mean to be rude, but I've had enough.� I'll hurt myself if I laugh any more.
Were the questions the killer blow towards your argument?
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