Hail ___ the Chief - Giancarlo Italiano

imanixsupporter

Chiefy is "safe" even if we lose the next 5 (meaning he will still see out the season unless he himself decides to walk). Nix management aren't decisive or particularly concerned about bad results. Kalezic is the only coach in our history that we got rid of, and that was at the end of the season, not midway through.

I'd actually be impressed if they did sack Chiefy, but they won't. 

Edit: i'm not saying he should be sacked right now, but I wouldnt be surprised if results end up being bad enough to justify his sacking over the next couple of months

Greenacre was in charge for the final 6 games of the 2017-18 season.

I'd also add that Merrick only had 8 games in 2016-17 and Herbert 22 in 2012-13

Herbert and Merrick both walked voluntarily

ballane

" Tulimoa is in a less needed area for us but he'd still be a lot better option than LKH, Sheridan in the back 3, would add some experience, better passing range, more pace and a set piece threat."

Since when did  Bill offer more pace than anyone, no thanks think our young guys are doing enough in defence, thats not where the problems are.
Also think LKH is showing weekly he is starting to develop into a useful player and for me dosnt deserve some of the rubbish thats said about him.

No disrespect to Bill, but I have a suspicion he would be an injury risk if we were to rely on him as the first choice player.

I think the club has overestimated the quality of the youth coming through our academy recently. Could Greenie be a part of this?

LBS and Loke look like diamonds in the rough but the majority at best are future squadies or players only good enough for the Oceania Pro League. I think the lack of people educated in football in the back office is a big part of this. 

My other team is having similar issues. Both clubs are suffering from owners looking at turning a profit through on-selling players. Yet without a football board with footballing playing and coaching experience, a lot of bad calls are being made.

Out biggest problem right now is not that our academy grads getting regular minutes are not good enough, in my opinion. There are only 3 at the moment, Sheridan, Hughes & LKH. I'd back them all to do a good job if they were in a well coached team surrounded by quality older players.

I question the coaching. The high-line back 5 isn't working, it is seen as a joke across the ditch, and the only decent player in our front 3 is Eze, same as last year when our only decent attacker was Kosta. It isn't ever going to be enough. 

Nix sold 3 high quality WeeNix grads in one season. Paulsen, Surman and Old.
Obviously that lead to alot of excitement around the club, and fair praise for the Academy.

But the progression of the none of the 3 was linear. Surman had a sound debut season, barely played the next campaign, then had a great 2023-24. Old was in and out of the first team for 2-3 years, then also had  a breakout 2023-24.

There were always a feeling Paulsen was a bit special, but he had to bide his time behind Sail.

Still too early to write off Hughes, Sheridan, LKH & Conchie as never being able to get a decent gig in Europe. 

I also think Walker with time could be an exciting ALM talent. I think back to him cleverly winning & converting his pen against Chile at the U20 WC. He just needs a long stretch not being injured.

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

It is blind faith even entertaining the slightest thought that Conchie would make it abroad.

coochiee

Nix sold 3 high quality WeeNix grads in one season. Paulsen, Surman and Old.
Obviously that lead to alot of excitement around the club, and fair praise for the Academy.

But the progression of the none of the 3 was linear. Surman had a sound debut season, barely played the next campaign, then had a great 2023-24. Old was in and out of the first team for 2-3 years, then also had  a breakout 2023-24.

There were always a feeling Paulsen was a bit special, but he had to bide his time behind Sail.

Still too early to write off Hughes, Sheridan, LKH & Conchie as never being able to get a decent gig in Europe. 

I also think Walker with time could be an exciting ALM talent. I think back to him cleverly winning & converting his pen against Chile at the U20 WC. He just needs a long stretch not being injured.

Marto

I think the club has overestimated the quality of the youth coming through our academy recently. Could Greenie be a part of this?

LBS and Loke look like diamonds in the rough but the majority at best are future squadies or players only good enough for the Oceania Pro League. I think the lack of people educated in football in the back office is a big part of this. 

My other team is having similar issues. Both clubs are suffering from owners looking at turning a profit through on-selling players. Yet without a football board with footballing playing and coaching experience, a lot of bad calls are being made.

Spot on except Greenie has no input in who gets professional contracts. Sounds absurd but trust me is true. Those decisions are driven by Chief and Gill and are signed off by the football committee whoever they may be. 

coochiee

Nix sold 3 high quality WeeNix grads in one season. Paulsen, Surman and Old.
Obviously that lead to alot of excitement around the club, and fair praise for the Academy.

But the progression of the none of the 3 was linear. Surman had a sound debut season, barely played the next campaign, then had a great 2023-24. Old was in and out of the first team for 2-3 years, then also had  a breakout 2023-24.

There were always a feeling Paulsen was a bit special, but he had to bide his time behind Sail.

Still too early to write off Hughes, Sheridan, LKH & Conchie as never being able to get a decent gig in Europe. 

I also think Walker with time could be an exciting ALM talent. I think back to him cleverly winning & converting his pen against Chile at the U20 WC. He just needs a long stretch not being injured.

Agree with most of this. Paulsen, Surman and Old were either 19 or most probably 20 when they got their contracts. Contrast this to our young youth who were 16 or 17 and just not remotely ready imo. 

ballane

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

Is that a good enough reason to offer players 3-year deals in your opinion? Do you see anything from any of the younger players (except possibly LBS) that would suggest paying approximately $150,000 each for them over 3 years is good business?

AucklandPhoenix

It is blind faith even entertaining the slightest thought that Conchie would make it abroad.

coochiee

Nix sold 3 high quality WeeNix grads in one season. Paulsen, Surman and Old.
Obviously that lead to alot of excitement around the club, and fair praise for the Academy.

But the progression of the none of the 3 was linear. Surman had a sound debut season, barely played the next campaign, then had a great 2023-24. Old was in and out of the first team for 2-3 years, then also had  a breakout 2023-24.

There were always a feeling Paulsen was a bit special, but he had to bide his time behind Sail.

Still too early to write off Hughes, Sheridan, LKH & Conchie as never being able to get a decent gig in Europe. 

I also think Walker with time could be an exciting ALM talent. I think back to him cleverly winning & converting his pen against Chile at the U20 WC. He just needs a long stretch not being injured.

6/8 roles are tricky positions to learn your craft. You play both facing and with back to goal. Your decision making has to be quick and accurate. Loose passes in a crowded midfield are punished.

It took Rufer years to consistently learn the DM role well. Bell failed in Denmark but after a couple more years back in Norway looks ready to try a higher level again. Conchie may get there who knows. Some days he looks impressive, others less so.

Footballtragic

ballane

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

Is that a good enough reason to offer players 3-year deals in your opinion? Do you see anything from any of the younger players (except possibly LBS) that would suggest paying approximately $150,000 each for them over 3 years is good business?

$50k per year per player investment seems quite small given the potential return if they are sold though.
Given the investment already put into these players getting them through the academy etc you'd think losing them to other clubs when they are young would be unacceptable.

theprof

Footballtragic

ballane

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

Is that a good enough reason to offer players 3-year deals in your opinion? Do you see anything from any of the younger players (except possibly LBS) that would suggest paying approximately $150,000 each for them over 3 years is good business?

$50k per year per player investment seems quite small given the potential return if they are sold though.
Given the investment already put into these players getting them through the academy etc you'd think losing them to other clubs when they are young would be unacceptable.

$50k in isolation does not seem a lot but multiply that by 3 years and for minimally 4 players that I believed were signed prematurely that is $600,000 that we need to sell one of them for to minimally recoup the investment. From what I have seen I can't see how that happens but hopefully I am proved wrong. Time will tell. 

Footballtragic

theprof

Footballtragic

ballane

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

Is that a good enough reason to offer players 3-year deals in your opinion? Do you see anything from any of the younger players (except possibly LBS) that would suggest paying approximately $150,000 each for them over 3 years is good business?

$50k per year per player investment seems quite small given the potential return if they are sold though.
Given the investment already put into these players getting them through the academy etc you'd think losing them to other clubs when they are young would be unacceptable.

$50k in isolation does not seem a lot but multiply that by 3 years and for minimally 4 players that I believed were signed prematurely that is $600,000 that we need to sell one of them for to minimally recoup the investment. From what I have seen I can't see how that happens but hopefully I am proved wrong. Time will tell. 

if you're expecting these guys to train full time then they need to be paid, if we weren't paying them and they don't have family or wealth to allow them to work for free then why should they stick with us?

Bullion

Footballtragic

theprof

Footballtragic

ballane

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

Is that a good enough reason to offer players 3-year deals in your opinion? Do you see anything from any of the younger players (except possibly LBS) that would suggest paying approximately $150,000 each for them over 3 years is good business?

$50k per year per player investment seems quite small given the potential return if they are sold though.
Given the investment already put into these players getting them through the academy etc you'd think losing them to other clubs when they are young would be unacceptable.

$50k in isolation does not seem a lot but multiply that by 3 years and for minimally 4 players that I believed were signed prematurely that is $600,000 that we need to sell one of them for to minimally recoup the investment. From what I have seen I can't see how that happens but hopefully I am proved wrong. Time will tell. 

if you're expecting these guys to train full time then they need to be paid, if we weren't paying them and they don't have family or wealth to allow them to work for free then why should they stick with us?

Mate you are missing my point completely. I am saying that some of these kids should not have professional contracts...period. If the threat was, they would leave then so be it...can't see where else they would have a pro gig at this stage!

Footballtragic

Bullion

Footballtragic

theprof

Footballtragic

ballane

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

Is that a good enough reason to offer players 3-year deals in your opinion? Do you see anything from any of the younger players (except possibly LBS) that would suggest paying approximately $150,000 each for them over 3 years is good business?

$50k per year per player investment seems quite small given the potential return if they are sold though.
Given the investment already put into these players getting them through the academy etc you'd think losing them to other clubs when they are young would be unacceptable.

$50k in isolation does not seem a lot but multiply that by 3 years and for minimally 4 players that I believed were signed prematurely that is $600,000 that we need to sell one of them for to minimally recoup the investment. From what I have seen I can't see how that happens but hopefully I am proved wrong. Time will tell. 

if you're expecting these guys to train full time then they need to be paid, if we weren't paying them and they don't have family or wealth to allow them to work for free then why should they stick with us?

Mate you are missing my point completely. I am saying that some of these kids should not have professional contracts...period. 

a lot have scholarship contracts, it's below the minimum wage of a full a league contract. It gives the players and club certainty.

Bullion

Footballtragic

Bullion

Footballtragic

theprof

Footballtragic

ballane

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

Is that a good enough reason to offer players 3-year deals in your opinion? Do you see anything from any of the younger players (except possibly LBS) that would suggest paying approximately $150,000 each for them over 3 years is good business?

$50k per year per player investment seems quite small given the potential return if they are sold though.
Given the investment already put into these players getting them through the academy etc you'd think losing them to other clubs when they are young would be unacceptable.

$50k in isolation does not seem a lot but multiply that by 3 years and for minimally 4 players that I believed were signed prematurely that is $600,000 that we need to sell one of them for to minimally recoup the investment. From what I have seen I can't see how that happens but hopefully I am proved wrong. Time will tell. 

if you're expecting these guys to train full time then they need to be paid, if we weren't paying them and they don't have family or wealth to allow them to work for free then why should they stick with us?

Mate you are missing my point completely. I am saying that some of these kids should not have professional contracts...period. 

a lot have scholarship contracts, it's below the minimum wage of a full a league contract. It gives the players and club certainty.

Yep scholarship initially and then full contract for at least one year. Why do the players or the Club need certainty if they are not yet ready? But as mentioned in an earlier post time will tell whether we recoup these costs and whether it was good or bad business. Happy to be proved wrong!

I think loyalty is messing Chief up here tbh. 

And I don’t think the high line is a joke. It’s a gamble, but been more fun than last season. Who’s laughing at us? Screw them. They’re not in our tactical considerations- the same mfs who always put us last in their preseason predictions. 

All the clubs have looked fairly stupid fairly regularly. With the exception of two senior players a position and one season, F-C.

Look at Victory now. And Sydney a season or two back having spent and spent for 7th. WSW with Mata. Perth, Brisbane and Newcastle are finally getting somewhere but have flattered to deceive. Adelaide are chokers. As are we. 

There’s not a club outside Auckland that hasn’t looked like crap at one point or another in the last 3 years. 

Chief probably should’ve left Loke starting as the incumbent and brought Sheridan on at half time or 55 minutes or whatever. Sheridan has played midfield and CB but not RB for some time. 

Perhaps as well he’s tried to conserve energy because we don’t have subs to keep it going….

Now he’s got a headache of his own making, that the RWB incumbent is Sheridan, but coming off an underwhelming performance. 

The biggest problem is the lack of output that seems likely from Najjarine or Mileusnic. We need them now particularly with the injury to Ishige. 

Problems -1
Loyalty to play an undercooked Sheridan and give him an opportunity at his favoured position, especially with the CB pairing changing again. 

Lack of output from our 10s-2

As above. No Ishige or LBS or Mileusnic. Najirrine not doing much.

Lack of conviction or faith in the players or fitness or whatever-3

I’d rather us go down 2-1 or 3-2 and put them under pressure, than hold and recycle possession gormlessly. We’ve set up to do this thing. Let’s do it. No going down without firing shots. Get everyone’s blood pumping. Create some highlights, ffs! 

A malaise creeping back into the team would be the worst. Light some damn fire crackers, don’t play away from the body on the up and let’s get back to where we were-attacking, scoring goals and trying to win games. 

Footballtragic

Bullion

Footballtragic

Bullion

Footballtragic

theprof

Footballtragic

ballane

Also think the Phoenix maybe signing some of the young guys to protect themselves from losing them to other teams.

Is that a good enough reason to offer players 3-year deals in your opinion? Do you see anything from any of the younger players (except possibly LBS) that would suggest paying approximately $150,000 each for them over 3 years is good business?

$50k per year per player investment seems quite small given the potential return if they are sold though.
Given the investment already put into these players getting them through the academy etc you'd think losing them to other clubs when they are young would be unacceptable.

$50k in isolation does not seem a lot but multiply that by 3 years and for minimally 4 players that I believed were signed prematurely that is $600,000 that we need to sell one of them for to minimally recoup the investment. From what I have seen I can't see how that happens but hopefully I am proved wrong. Time will tell. 

if you're expecting these guys to train full time then they need to be paid, if we weren't paying them and they don't have family or wealth to allow them to work for free then why should they stick with us?

Mate you are missing my point completely. I am saying that some of these kids should not have professional contracts...period. 

a lot have scholarship contracts, it's below the minimum wage of a full a league contract. It gives the players and club certainty.

Yep scholarship initially and then full contract for at least one year. Why do the players or the Club need certainty if they are not yet ready? But as mentioned in an earlier post time will tell whether we recoup these costs and whether it was good or bad business. Happy to be proved wrong!

guess what, employing footballers is the cost of doing business of a football club. We need these players to make sure we have a match day squad, and to be able to train effectively, so we should be paying them. Sure, there might be some speculation at play, but we should still be paying them if they are working for the club.

Edit: also Football tragic, you’ve got to remember opportunity costs ( ???) I think. 

If we play 3 Najjirines instead of 2 and an LBS we are paying a salary for experience and so on. 

As well, the opportunities our academy boys have had is an attraction for the younger players to join and I believe they do pay? 

And if we do things right we get training bonuses from World Cups, transfer fees and sell on fees etc. 

Not a skilled economist, but are there no direct incentives to make the finals currently? We don’t get any of the finals revenue? Is that correct? 

Players like Supyk and Conchie are not as good as Old and Surman, but Conchie has certainly done more than should have been asked of him and as Rufer showed players develop at different rates. 

My other worry is that a lot of teams seem physically larger and stronger than us. And this a direct reaction to a more lenient refereeing interpretation. AFC and the CC and Brisbane backline particularly! Hughes and Sheridan are not big lads, and without Eze, Piper and James, we’d be behind the curve.

Newcastle still seem more Drake’s England and less Spanish Armada tho tbf.

FFS! STOP QUOTING! MY PHONE JUST CANNOT COPE!
Can't the mods do something about this?

here's a sugestion for you Footballtragic, how about you stop beating this particular drum until you are either a) proven correct that these players were never worthy of a contract and are released on a free or b) you're proven wrong and the $600k investment is realised as one or more of them are sold for significantly more.

it would stop a lot of pointless quoting and angst!

Jessie Merino

FFS! STOP QUOTING! MY PHONE JUST CANNOT COPE!
Can't the mods do something about this?

‘If this were to be played now upon a stage I would condemn it as a lot of irritating punctuation’ Maggie Thatcher

theprof

here's a sugestion for you Footballtragic, how about you stop beating this particular drum until you are either a) proven correct that these players were never worthy of a contract and are released on a free or b) you're proven wrong and the $600k investment is realised as one or more of them are sold for significantly more.

it would stop a lot of pointless quoting and angst!

Prof that is actually a great idea. Apologies for any angst!

The looking for non paid analyst intern.
https://wellingtonphoenix.com/job-vacancies/
I should apply, could I make it worse that the Brisbane Pizza baker analyst?

number8

The looking for non paid analyst intern.
https://wellingtonphoenix.com/job-vacancies/
I should apply, could I make it worse that the Brisbane Pizza baker analyst?

need to provide your own mac as well as be unpaid. Seriously? 

Bullion

number8

The looking for non paid analyst intern.
https://wellingtonphoenix.com/job-vacancies/
I should apply, could I make it worse that the Brisbane Pizza baker analyst?

need to provide your own mac as well as be unpaid. Seriously? 

Gotta save money for the Ishige replacement 

Got to pay those charter school teachers as well

Bullion

number8

The looking for non paid analyst intern.
https://wellingtonphoenix.com/job-vacancies/
I should apply, could I make it worse that the Brisbane Pizza baker analyst?

need to provide your own mac as well as be unpaid. Seriously? 

Have setup the video the training, it not something you could do at home in the evening out of passion

Unreal. At least pay the minimum wage.

How about this guy:

or Mitchell & Webb ‘Are we the Bad Guys?’ 

number8

The looking for non paid analyst intern.
https://wellingtonphoenix.com/job-vacancies/
I should apply, could I make it worse that the Brisbane Pizza baker analyst?

Bloody hell this is poor.

I could almost justify a summer internship (not really) but having to bring your own laptop!?!?!?! The fact they spec a Macbook as well, implies you're going to be installing software and accessing company data on your personal PC. Which is pretty poor tech practices.

number8

The looking for non paid analyst intern.
https://wellingtonphoenix.com/job-vacancies/
I should apply, could I make it worse that the Brisbane Pizza baker analyst?

I know it's easy to pile on when the mens team perfomances have been lacklustre for a while and the mood around the club is far from at its best, but this is truly taking the piss. That's a lot of high quality work expected for a free ride. Expecting the applicant to provide their own high specs Mac laptop is the cherry on top. 

Nobody gets into working in sports to get rich, but be reasonable. 

Not sure why people are trying to make something out of nothing. Interns are used across many businesses. 
Surely if you were wanting to become a sports analyst you would have and be familar with owning the tools required to do the job.
Pretty sure some of the interns who have been at the Phoenix have gone onto paid positions in their chose  field.
I might defend the Phoenix but it seems others spend as much time being critical of everything they do.

Bare minimum an intern should be getting is a company laptop to work on, having to provide/use your own is pushing it a bit, especailly for an unpaid position.

theprof

Bare minimum an intern should be getting is a company laptop to work on, having to provide/use your own is pushing it a bit, especailly for an unpaid position.

cheapest 2nd hand m series Mac books are about a grand on trademe. For a big club, even new at ~1600, is not a major outlay but is for someone not expecting to be paid for months.

I think it's what kind of company culture you represent. That intern adds value to the club by doing work that get used by the coach and may help win games. Let's say it's a 10h per week job, minimum wage, would ~$240/week. Is this to much to ask? Maybe some free tickets on top?

Correct, certainly not unusual in American professional sports. Interns look upon it as a foot in the door to a career in sports. Same in US politics too.

ballane

Not sure why people are trying to make something out of nothing. Interns are used across many businesses. 
Surely if you were wanting to become a sports analyst you would have and be familar with owning the tools required to do the job.
Pretty sure some of the interns who have been at the Phoenix have gone onto paid positions in their chose  field.
I might defend the Phoenix but it seems others spend as much time being critical of everything they do.

Napier Phoenix

Correct, certainly not unusual in American professional sports. Interns look upon it as a foot in the door to a career in sports. Same in US politics too.

ballane

Not sure why people are trying to make something out of nothing. Interns are used across many businesses. 
Surely if you were wanting to become a sports analyst you would have and be familar with owning the tools required to do the job.
Pretty sure some of the interns who have been at the Phoenix have gone onto paid positions in their chose  field.
I might defend the Phoenix but it seems others spend as much time being critical of everything they do.

Do we want to emulate US practices on valuing our least wealthy? 

Especially when most big US clubs flaunt wealth! Not something we can accuse the Nix of I guess. No hot tub seats or bridal suites at the Ring of Fire…

Interning over summer with a friend of daddy’s is something done by nepo babies while the rest of us worked in the Warehouse or wherever to pay uni fees.