New FIFA inititive would impact on the Phoenix

134 replies · 1,316 views

about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

However, it would hurt the top four EPL clubs competitiveness in the UEFA CL more than the other european teams.

I think that's fine. When asked about that from an England perspective recently, my response was that when you looked at the team that played Croatia only half of them had ever played in the Champions League anyway. Overall the number of English players experiencing Champions League football will most likely increase, even taking into account a possible drop from 1st to 4th/5th/6th in the co-efficients (which would drop us from 4 to 3 entrants).

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

SiNZ wrote:

sanday wrote:

Does anyone know which leagues have the most foreign players?

ï¿½

Not exactly, but http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1309127,00.htmlï¿½says:

ï¿½

- In the Prem only 38% of the players are eligible to play for England.

- In Italy that number is 75%

- In Germany it's 45%.

- In Spain it's 65%.

ï¿½

38%.... staggering.

Actually the Qatar national league will greatly suffer at first but then they would just nationalise every player as per their national team selection requirements.

Eerrrr. . . I would like to mention that the Championship division is the sixth richest division in the world as well as being the richest second tier division in the world and they have plenty of imports and local english players as well. If anything they are likely to suffer more than the EPL teams. But what it means is that more English championship players will get the opportunity to play higher up and against more english players but the club itself may not develop into a higher league. The goal post have changed but the game is still the same.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Presumably FIFA is an elected body with those representatives (like Blatter) coming from the Confederations. Now who would actually benefit from such a rule being implemented?

If I was an Ivory Coast administrator, I would vote against such a move because it would remove a valuable income source for my clubs ï¿½ the transfer market. Likewise for clubs in places like Spain and France.

Who on FIFA would actually support this rule change and why?

Anyone else agree or disagree?

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Dino10 wrote:

What if the Nix had no Kiwis???

They would be the Knights.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The Ivory Coast don't make much out of these. The European clubs mostly take the players as kids and place them with European clubs. Apparently it can be a really traumatic experience for the players that don't make it; even the ones that do often struggle. There was an article in 442 a few months back about it.

SiNZ2008-03-18 20:17:36

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

And as an addendum - given the pressure that Europe is trying to exert on having the African Nations Cup played to suit a European timetable (when Africa is at its hottest), I bet the politics of what Africa wants will get played out quite well!

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Dino10 wrote:

Though I abhor US sport the draft system tries to equalise the playing strength of all teams, it is very hard to create dynasties and if a team is dominant it is only for a short term.

The reason they do this is because the respective leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA etc) are owned and run by the owners of all of the franchises. The success of the owner's investment lies in the sharing of success. No owner is going to be happy with 1 or 2 franchises winning every year. While the NFL's New England have been very successful recently, they probably won't be 10 years from now. If it looked like they were going to be, you can bet the other owners would be changing the rules so they couldn't be.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

From what I have heard from friends in Europe what has bought this to a head is the domination of English clubs in the Champions League, in particular this year. Many in Europe consider this to be unhealthy for the competition and the game in general. Many think that the EPL top four are getting too powerful....sucking money and players out of the global system.

The more they win, the more money they get and the more powerful they become. It seems like everytime a European club develops a good player they just get bought by the big 4. Lyon were furious at Man U for making buying hints to their new ace striker Bousmana(spp) during the competition.

If you support one of the big four then life is good for you. Personally I find their whole domination kind of boring!!! At least here in the A-League with the salary cap and the foreign restriction every club has a chance of making it to the top. At the start of each season 75% of the clubs in the EPL know they have no chance of making the top four.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Ronaldunno wrote:

If you support one of the big four then life is good for you.

Having said that, the hardcore support of those clubs hate the glory hunters and day trippers that get sucked in by the domination of coverage. I remember well the last league game that Liverpool played at Brighton in 1983. I was in the North Stand and the Liverpool fans were in the North East. There were some "cockney reds" towards the front of the Liverpool crowd and whenever they tried to get a chant going, the remaining Liverpool fans chanted at them "on your own, on your own, on your own" followed by "one match a season, you're just one match a season."

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Arsenal wrote:

I'd stop following the EPL if this happened. I don't want to watch a bunch of English hacks and, let's face it, the quality of the league would severely drop.

It would make La Liga and Serie A relatively more attractive though.

i hope you don't support the a-league or the phoenix for that matter because its standard is about 30 times worse and always will be than epl/la liga and serie a

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

SiNZ wrote:

The african cup of nations is held when it is because when it was formed hosting nations didnt have the facilities to play night games, so if they had to play in the day, they are going to play in the winter months to avoid the heat. (also some west african nations have "wet seasons" in june & july ) This situatiuon is no longer the case and the african nations who apply to host this competition have the facilities to play the games at night. The only problem is that they will have to add/subtract a year from the two year cycle so it doesnt conflict with World cups.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

tawa wrote:

Arsenal wrote:

i hope you don't support the a-league or the phoenix for that matter because its standard is about 30 times worse and always will be than epl/la liga and serie a

30 times worse than Bolton long balls?

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Stay on topic please. Discussion on the now-dead issue of Game 39 doesn't belong in a thread about the 6+5 proposal.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

man2biron wrote:

Agree! Teams like MIGHTY SUNDERLAND with good development for youth would come through the ranks, would stop the current situation where whoever has the most money wins

Speaking as a Sunderland supporter - I'd love to know more about our 'good developement for youth'... The last 3 players to come through our youth system and 'establish' themselves at any Premiership clubs are:

Grant Leadbitter (squad member of a struggling EPL side)

George McCartney (reasonably competant member of the West Ham first team), and...

Ben Alnwick (3rd choice keeper at Spurs)

Our youth policy has been so poor over the last decade that this season, with at times a crippling injury list, and a thin squad, we've blooded exactly ONE member of our youth squad - Martyn Waghorn (and even he's only been on the pitch 3 times).

The clubs that will benefit will be the likes of West Ham, Crystal Palace, etc., clubs who do produce young talent - and will be able to sell it on to the bigger clubs in the even more inflated internal transfer market.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

tawa wrote:

Arsenal wrote:

i hope you don't support the a-league or the phoenix for that matter because its standard is about 30 times worse and always will be than epl/la liga and serie a

You're such a negative nancy... comes from supporting a negative team like Bolton I guess

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Benjamin wrote:

man2biron wrote:

Agree! Teams like MIGHTY SUNDERLAND with good development for youth would come through the ranks, would stop the current situation where whoever has the most money wins

Grant Leadbitter (squad member of a struggling EPL side)

George McCartney (reasonably competant member of the West Ham first team), and...

Ben Alnwick (3rd choice keeper at Spurs)

some clubs will basically set themselves up as player farms.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Dino10 wrote:

Totally disagree with Uber...

Something must be done, the current situation with teams such as Arsenal not even fielding one English player in an English comp is complete madness.

Where is the local affinity, the path for young players..

What if the Nix had no Kiwis???

It's a double edged sword, I agree with your sentiment, there is no doubt that the English national team is struggling because of the lack of opportunity in the EPL. However it's also fair to say that from an entertainment point of view the EPL is better value because of the overseas talent.

I think that the suggestion gives a reasonable, balanced solution, whether or not it can be enforced is another thing......

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

As it has always been. Clubs with the buying power will purchase players from clubs with less money.

Any changes would be gradual, ie 6 Imports working down to 3 over a period of four years.

Though I am not an Engerlund supporter it will benefit the national game.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

the situation in england will remain virtually the same, the big four will just buy all the local talent instead of the overseas talent. champions league will become more competitve though.

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

rodfarva2008-03-28 11:45:47

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Dino10 wrote:

Though I am not an Engerlund supporter it will benefit the national game.

ï¿½

I don't think this would necessarily follow. One of the problems that English football has is that it hasn't really produced top talent on a consistent basis for a fairly long-period of time now.
So more English players may get the opportunity, but all that may mean is that the standard of the league perhaps gets lowered somewhat and the English national team doesn't benefit at all.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

If the Champions League is less dominated by the English clubs, they will be less able to afford to buy up all the talent though. Currently, whilst they don't tend to win it, they do generally make it through to the big money stages.

Countries with crap leagues? If those countries are producing only a handful of "prem quality" players, then I don't see how they will be impacted. If they are producing a good volume, the converse is that thise countries will see clubs with increased participation in the Champions League anyway.

English team benefits? How about being able to select players that actually get to play regularly, instead of being benchwarmers? Look at the Croatia team we had and who brought on to try and win the game.... all benchwarmers with limited playing time at their clubs. And unlike overseas leagues, England does not have reserve teams competing in the lower divisions - so if you're not in the first 11, you get very little actual playing time... ironically one of the complaints Rafa Benetez has made as he has problems balancing such a large squad [rolls eyes]

By the way, England is wide wide open. There aren't even any eligibility requirements for non-EU players like there is in Germany - maxiumum of 5 in the matchday squad of 18 players.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

rodfarva wrote:

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

The other way to look at it is that the leagues perceived as 'crap' now could get stronger if they get hold on to the talent thay produce for longer.
Particularly interesting development to watch out for (if this does indeed happen) is to see what happens in countries like Czech Republic, Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria which historically have produced footballing talent by bucketloads, but have had it siphoned off very early in the last 15 or so years. If those countries can retain that talent for longer now because of proposed new rules, their leagues and clubs may become more prominent than they are right now.

Remember also that before the EU and the Bosman rule, the Eastern European clubs were very strong in Europe. Steaua were European Champions in 1986, Crvena Zvezda in 1991, Dynamo Kiev won the old Cup Winners' Cup a couple of times, and so on. Personall I think it'd be awesome to get back to those kind of times...and not just because I'm obviously biased on this.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

rodfarva wrote:

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

ahhh touche.. interesting point.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

rodfarva wrote:

the situation in england will remain virtually the same, the big four will just buy all the local talent instead of the overseas talent. champions league will become more competitve though.

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

I've supported a lower league team for a very long time, selling our best players as a way financing the club is a fact of life, in fact we've see investment in youth set up growing in the lower leagues. There is even a certain amount of pride involved when you see a kid pull on a Man U, Newcastle, Liverpool shirt for the first time (notice I didn't say Arsenal, that would just be sick), knowing that he started his career at your club.

Less money spent on overseas players would mean more money available for the lower league teams, a good thing. More money available means more to invest in youth, means more quality coming through the ranks, a good thing.

When you start supporting a team based on local passion for the club and not glory hunting results, these things become very important. Having said that I see no reason why the average New Zealander would support a Chesterfield, Hereford or York City and would therefore not truly understand the ins and outs of supporting unfashionable teams and the real effect the EPL is having on football (other than HN and his Ipswich thing of course).

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

rodfarva wrote:

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

The Bosman rule has nothing to do with it, the Bosman dealt with the issue of players out of contract inside the EU.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

danielsleftball wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

rodfarva wrote:

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

The other way to look at it is that the leagues perceived as 'crap' now could get stronger if they get hold on to the talent thay produce for longer. Particularly interesting development to watch out for (if this does indeed happen) is to see what happens in countries like Czech Republic, Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria which historically have produced footballing talent by bucketloads, but have had it siphoned off very early in the last 15 or so years. If those countries can retain that talent for longer now because of proposed new rules, their leagues and clubs may become more prominent than they are right now. Remember also that before the EU and the Bosman rule, the Eastern European clubs were very strong in Europe. Steaua were European Champions in 1986, Crvena Zvezda in 1991, Dynamo Kiev won the old Cup Winners' Cup a couple of times, and so on. Personall I think it'd be awesome to get back to those kind of times...and not just because I'm obviously biased on this.

ï¿½

The Bosman rule has nothing to do with it, the Bosman dealt with the issue of players out of contract inside the EU.

Err, you do realise that EU has expanded? I mean, what with 1.5 million Polish immigrants in England over just the last few years?

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

danielsleftball wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

rodfarva wrote:

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

The other way to look at it is that the leagues perceived as 'crap' now could get stronger if they get hold on to the talent thay produce for longer. Particularly interesting development to watch out for (if this does indeed happen) is to see what happens in countries like Czech Republic, Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria which historically have produced footballing talent by bucketloads, but have had it siphoned off very early in the last 15 or so years. If those countries can retain that talent for longer now because of proposed new rules, their leagues and clubs may become more prominent than they are right now. Remember also that before the EU and the Bosman rule, the Eastern European clubs were very strong in Europe. Steaua were European Champions in 1986, Crvena Zvezda in 1991, Dynamo Kiev won the old Cup Winners' Cup a couple of times, and so on. Personall I think it'd be awesome to get back to those kind of times...and not just because I'm obviously biased on this.

The Bosman rule has nothing to do with it, the Bosman dealt with the issue of players out of contract inside the EU.

Err, you do realise that EU has expanded? I mean, what with 1.5 million Polish immigrants in England over just the last few years?

One of the biggest things I've noticed when I've been back in the last couple of years are the number of Eastern European's working in the service industry in the UK. All part of striving to be a multi-cultural society I suppose.

It'd be great to see a Bellanov in an England shirt!

Still nothing to do with the Bosman.....

danielsleftball2008-03-28 14:24:59

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

danielsleftball wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

danielsleftball wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

rodfarva wrote:

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

The other way to look at it is that the leagues perceived as 'crap' now could get stronger if they get hold on to the talent thay produce for longer. Particularly interesting development to watch out for (if this does indeed happen) is to see what happens in countries like Czech Republic, Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria which historically have produced footballing talent by bucketloads, but have had it siphoned off very early in the last 15 or so years. If those countries can retain that talent for longer now because of proposed new rules, their leagues and clubs may become more prominent than they are right now. Remember also that before the EU and the Bosman rule, the Eastern European clubs were very strong in Europe. Steaua were European Champions in 1986, Crvena Zvezda in 1991, Dynamo Kiev won the old Cup Winners' Cup a couple of times, and so on. Personall I think it'd be awesome to get back to those kind of times...and not just because I'm obviously biased on this.

ï¿½

The Bosman rule has nothing to do with it, the Bosman dealt with the issue of players out of contract inside the EU.

Err, you do realise that EU has expanded? I mean, what with 1.5 million Polish immigrants in England over just the last few years?

ï¿½

One of the biggest things I've noticed when I've been back in the last couple of years are the number of Eastern European's working in the service industry in the UK.ï¿½ All part of striving to be a multi-cultural society I suppose.

ï¿½

It'd be great to see a Bellanov in an England shirt!

ï¿½

Still nothing toï¿½ do with the Bosman.....

It was the Bosman ruling which set in motion the free movement of players accross the member countries of the EU.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

danielsleftball wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

danielsleftball wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

rodfarva wrote:

countries with crap leagues could suffer as less of their players will have the chance to play in a better foreign league.

The other way to look at it is that the leagues perceived as 'crap' now could get stronger if they get hold on to the talent thay produce for longer. Particularly interesting development to watch out for (if this does indeed happen) is to see what happens in countries like Czech Republic, Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria which historically have produced footballing talent by bucketloads, but have had it siphoned off very early in the last 15 or so years. If those countries can retain that talent for longer now because of proposed new rules, their leagues and clubs may become more prominent than they are right now. Remember also that before the EU and the Bosman rule, the Eastern European clubs were very strong in Europe. Steaua were European Champions in 1986, Crvena Zvezda in 1991, Dynamo Kiev won the old Cup Winners' Cup a couple of times, and so on. Personall I think it'd be awesome to get back to those kind of times...and not just because I'm obviously biased on this.

The Bosman rule has nothing to do with it, the Bosman dealt with the issue of players out of contract inside the EU.

Err, you do realise that EU has expanded? I mean, what with 1.5 million Polish immigrants in England over just the last few years?

It'd be great to see a Bellanov in an England shirt!

Still nothing to do with the Bosman.....

It was the Bosman ruling which set in motion the free movement of players accross the member countries of the EU.

You could be right, it was some time ago but I thought the Bosman was about out of contract players having the right to go to a new club without a fee. I thought the whole freedom of employment stuff just came as part and parcel of the wonderful EU.

I know someone that'll be able to clear this up for us......

Hard News, over to you.

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The Bosman ruling also prohibited domestic football leagues in EU member states, and also UEFA, from imposing quotas on foreign players to the extent that they discriminated against nationals of EU states.

Edited to cite a source:

http://www.liv.ac.uk/footballindustry/bosman.html

SiNZ2008-03-28 16:07:03

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