New FIFA inititive would impact on the Phoenix

The typical argument trotted out is that foreigners are ruining the English game and hence there needs to be restrictions on foreign players. I consider this xenophobic. You seem to be the only one confused on that issue? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia

The face of the game is changing. Local support has led to where clubs are today, international support will lead to where clubs are in the future. If you're going to try and fight that, good luck.

We're probably looking at Franchises from different angles then. In England, the word conjures up the American model where clubs can move across countries over night - hence the backlash directed at Wimbledon when they shifted.

and United fans were ready to crucify Malcolm Glazer after he used the "F" word.

Seems to be a pattern appearing,

I'm an international gunners supporter, have been for 15/16 years, which is pretty much my footballing supprt career, have been to highbury to see a game, loved it. I can see where the England internation team is suffering due to no English players playing in teh top flight, but I can't see how negative rules like this one is going to help. surely a better international youth system is the way to make it work. Leave my Arsenal alone!!!!

I'll ignore your first paragraph for the sake of keeping things relatively intellectual.

Your second paragraph makes some good points re: exporting, something England have been criminally poor at. However, it takes a lot for an English supporter to admit that they just aren't that good, rather than seeking excuses.

Can we keep this on topic please - this is not the "You're not a true Arsenal supporter" thread...

sorry didn't mean to hijack thread.

I guess one of the concerning things for me if this rule is brought into place would be the price of players in the Transfer market.

A classic example of what would happen is the Club "Athletic Balbao" (I'm pretty sure its them, excuse me if I've mixed it up). They only field players from within the Bilbao region of Spain, no other player can represent the club. They decided that they want the club to be completely home grown and  thats what they do.

The problem arises when some new wonderkid happens to be contracted to ..say Barcelona for example, because he's from Bilbao, Barca know that they can charge an extra 5 million for him, because Bilbao can't shop anywhere else.

The same would happen in England, English players prices would sky rocket, and lets be honest English players are already overpriced, thats why the tops clubs shop elsewhere. (Read Africa and France for Chelsea and Arsenal, Spain for Liverpool and Portugal for Manure)

So the big clubs (not just the top four) would rapidly begin buying up every English player that can kick a ball and tying them into long term contracts in case they turn out any good, what would all the other lower division clubs do? rely on loan players?

I'm not saying I have the answer, but these are a few problems I foresee.
Fitz2008-03-18 13:47:59

Dunno about that Fitz. With Bilbao, you have a small region - population 350,000 - though I think they limit to Basque Region - population about 3,000,000. If Europe returned to the quota system, surely it would level out as it did for the previous 100+ years and lower division clubs would function as before. What we are seeing now is only a recent development and departure from what was in place for several times longer. It should see the big 4 return to a more even playing field, as they won't be able to put out superstars to all but guarantee them big champions league pay days as the rest of europe will get more competitive and there would be less "lumpiness" in the distribution of wealth.

Or the big four would just pay more for the 'best' English players and there would be no change to the distribution of wealth, which is far more likely.

And other clubs in other countries, such as Madrid and Barca, are just as wealthy.
Arsenal2008-03-18 15:02:15

Assuming the 6/5 rule talked about at the start of the thread (i.e. the topic we're supposed to be talking about), there would still be among the best in the world playing in England. The 'best' English players would also be snapped up by the big clubs. Thus maintaining the 'lumpiness' in the distribution of wealth within England.

If your concern is that English clubs are getting *too* competitive compared to foreign clubs then I'm not sure what to say.

Perhaps it's that I don't see it necessary that football aim to be equitable, where every team be no stronger or weaker than others. Like anything in life, it's perfectly natural that some football clubs/countries/leagues will be stronger than others over certain periods.

And focussing on just a 5 or 10 year period might not really tell you much, statistically speaking.

Wait a moment before everyone gets too carried away.

In regards to the Nix. The FFA executive committee had made an approval for the Nixs to be an international football club from NZ for the Australian competition. This means that we are a NZ club not an Aussie club.

Although initially when the NZK had started, FFA had approved at the time for the A-league competition that both NZ and Aus players are consided "local" players. However that changed when Aus switched to AFC with the AFC considered NZ players as "foreign" players to the ACL competition during the 2006-07 season. Hence the FFA instructions to the New Wellington Phoenix club to increase the number of their own homegrown players rather than Australian players as well as informing of their ACL exclusion due to the AFC ruling that NZK in 2006-07 were not an AFC club.

The FFA had to align themselves to the AFC ruling despite that A-league competition is run by FFA and not by the AFC. The reason being is that the qualification for ACL is set for approval by the AFC and that the clubs which qualified by A-league would have to be aligned to the AFC club rulings.

Therefore the seven Australian clubs changed their squad members to suit being in the AFC and so only four imports were allowed this includes New Zealanders.

Since NZ players in the Australian clubs are now considered as "import" players for the purposes of qualifying for ACL competition while they are playing in the A-league.

Although the term "import" player is relative to the club context and not to the competition context, the Australian players in the Wellington Phoenix football club are not considered as 'import" players as they are playing in the Australian A-league competition. However for the Wellington Phoenix FC, the term of "import" had a rule of exception as they are an international club and not AFC approved. Hence for the Australian and New Zealand players in the Wellington Phoenix are considered "local" players and non-Australasian players are considered "import' players. This is why we had only Felipe, Daniels, George and Celeberson is regarded as our four import players

Now back to the topic;

So in light of this, the impact of this New FIFA initiative on the Phoenix would be minimal to say the least in regards to number of Australian players in the club. However there is minimal impact to the current status of NZ players (Leo Bertos was the only NZer in an Australian A-league club last season) in the Australian clubs because the AFC and FFA has already have the four import players ruling.

This only affects some of the European leagues especially the EPL and the English championship.

It will affect the some of the English players playing in the Welsh cup in Wales but wouldn't affect the Welsh players playing in the English championship simply because of the current squad make up and the nature of the ruling (i.e. an english player playing in an welsh club in wales is considered a foreigner but a welsh or english player in a welsh club that is playing in the English championship is not consider a foreigner).

In other words, it helps teams like Cardiff City, Wellington Phoenix and Toronto FC that plays in a foreign competition to fill the local squad member quota from two countries rather than the one country as the other clubs playing in their own competitions. Toronto FC recently had a similar relaxation of the MLS rules imposed on them to compensate for the smaller talent pool in Canada, allowing them to field fewer domestic players than its American counterparts. But the ruling is on the squad make up rather than in the on-field make up.

In the EPL, it would be a bit contrite at first but after a while the managers will adapt to it and do the best possible. What it means is that there would set a different player based make up leading to advantage to some players and a disadvantage to other players. In the overall scheme of things it changes the strength of national association teams of the stronger and weaker nations as well as the strong and weak club teams depending on their current import player structure. Eventually the balance will see more teams completing on an even ground. There is still plenty of scope with four import players and everyone has to live by the same restrictions.

Who cares it won't happen just like Game 39 and no more draws this plan is about as smart as a full time worker at McDonalds.

Grow up...

Yeah sure i've seen them play live. Why last weekend i just pulled $10,000 magically out of my arse and went on a round trip to London with tickets to the Emirates included.

I wouldn't bet on against quotas BII. Both Platini and Blatter are keen and they seem to making headway with the Euro-crats. Quotas were the norm in Europe not that long ago, and it's a concept that worked fine in the past. It was only the Euro-crats refusing to see sport as distinct from business, something they are gradually recognising as an error, that forced it to be abandoned.

Spot on...

Does anyone know which leagues have the most foreign players?

It's interesting when you look at how the "issues" have split some of the managers. Alex Ferguson supports quotas and opposes game 39. Wenger rejects quotas and likes game 39 (as does Avram Grant apparently). Still, Wenger is opposed to international football too, so likes to take the obtuse view.

So why are you complaining? If Wenger spends truck loads on the developing youth in the club then he is more prepared than the other EPL clubs after the rule is in placed, despite not having many youth players in the top team. So he has to play Theo Walcott and the likes thereof more than ever, so is that a bad thing for your club? All the EPL clubs will have to adapt, some more that other.

It shouldn't hurt the top clubs domestically because they would buy the better english players with their greater purchasing power but it also means that some really good English player would not be confined to the bench as well as being able to go to the other club to get more playing time as an alternative. So the top half of the table would spread around more and that the Big Four can't just outbid another club to prevent good english players playing on the field for another club and place them on their club bench for the season as a form of anti-competition strategy.

However, it would hurt the top four EPL clubs competitiveness in the UEFA CL more than the other european teams.

Not so much complaining from an Arsenal point of view, just personally don't think its a good idea.