Wellington Phoenix Men

Nix vs Brisbane Roar, Sunday 7pm SS3

603 replies · 38,850 views
about 13 years ago

The Phoenix were much better; they only lost 2-0. That means in their last three away games they scored a grand total of 1 goal and leaked 14 for a negative GD of 13. While the young guys were full of energy there was a lack of structure and understanding throughout the team. The first goal highlighted the role confusion in defense  On attack there was a tendency to rely on individual effort rather than a coherent game plan. While individual players are responsible for their own actions, the tactical confusion points to a malaise emanating from the top.

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about 13 years ago

valeo wrote:

Also, Siggy has to stop charging out. This isn't rugby league. You don't get applauded for running 20m and smashing into your opponent. Leaves us short at the back constantly.


TBF, he did clean out Theo so that gave him plenty of time to retreat back to his 22 yard line for the restart.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 13 years ago

Feverish wrote:

james dean wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

james dean wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

The angst on here seems pretty disproportionate  to the performance.  We looked much better today. Looked to maintain possession and knock it around more. Couple of sloppy mistakes and poor finishing cost us.  Another day we would have got something out of it.


Isn't that part of the problem though?  other than looking lively and passing the ball a little bit in patches we don't look like we have any patterns of play designed to score.  And we lack quality in the final third which makes it more surprising that we aren't playing the one guy with goal scoring pedigree - and who has actually scored goals this season in Huysegems.  Plus, we are almost guaranteed to concede goals.  You look at the whole thing in total and wonder whether there is an actual plan here to win games and score goals - what does a typical phoenix goal look like? I'd love to know what the players are being told before they go out there.  


These are all coaching issues...player quality may be what is stopping us from being a top 2 team but the difference in squads between us and 6th isn't what's holding us back

 

Um, well we should have scored at least 2 goals. And had a another 3-4 decent chances to score.


But we didn't score and we've struggled to score all year even in games or halves we've reportedly dominated.  And there has to be a reason for that...

A-League keepers are quite good?



Yip, it's Ricki's fault Michael Theo made some cracking saves yesterday.

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about 13 years ago

yeah, he was lucky not to be carded for that "tackle" whilst it kinda looked like he was going for the ball some refs could have seen it differently.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 13 years ago

 He was pretty quick to apologise and you can see from his body language he was trying to pull out but momentum is a harsh mistress.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

agreed, and for mine the ref got it right - thankfully, some other ref might have shown him a yellow, or red.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

 He was pretty quick to apologise and you can see from his body language he was trying to pull out but momentum is a harsh mistress.


Especially Siggie's momentum (mv^2 or something like that).

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

 ............ he was trying to pull out but momentum is a harsh mistress.

I actually laughed out loud when I read that!

 

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 13 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

Feverish wrote:

james dean wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

james dean wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

The angst on here seems pretty disproportionate  to the performance.  We looked much better today. Looked to maintain possession and knock it around more. Couple of sloppy mistakes and poor finishing cost us.  Another day we would have got something out of it.


Isn't that part of the problem though?  other than looking lively and passing the ball a little bit in patches we don't look like we have any patterns of play designed to score.  And we lack quality in the final third which makes it more surprising that we aren't playing the one guy with goal scoring pedigree - and who has actually scored goals this season in Huysegems.  Plus, we are almost guaranteed to concede goals.  You look at the whole thing in total and wonder whether there is an actual plan here to win games and score goals - what does a typical phoenix goal look like? I'd love to know what the players are being told before they go out there.  


These are all coaching issues...player quality may be what is stopping us from being a top 2 team but the difference in squads between us and 6th isn't what's holding us back

 

Um, well we should have scored at least 2 goals. And had a another 3-4 decent chances to score.


But we didn't score and we've struggled to score all year even in games or halves we've reportedly dominated.  And there has to be a reason for that...

A-League keepers are quite good?



Yip, it's Ricki's fault Michael Theo made some cracking saves yesterday.

 

All these sarcastic "it's Ricki's fault blah blah" are pretty inane. I haven't read any post on here saying everything is Ricki's fault. I think, like many others, he is PART of the problem though.

What does the coach actually do, if he is not responsible for anything that happens on the pitch? Hell, I'd love his salary to just pick a starting 11 and recruit the odd player, then tell the team to go out there and give it your best shot at halftime, if that's all he's supposed to do.

I like tautologies because I like them.
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about 13 years ago

I can't claim to know much about football but why can't we score from set piece? Ok granted we've had difficulties scoring at Mermaids at the moment but when was the last time we scored a goal directly from a corner or set piece? I can only recall Siggy's header in Christchurch in recent times, and perhaps one where there was pinball in the 18 yard box after another shite corner kick which someone managed to sneak into the goal.

Can someone explain set pieces to me and why we seem to struggle so badly at them? Are we disproportionately bad at them? Because other teams seem to be able to nail theirs into my heart.

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about 13 years ago

ahmad wrote:

I can't claim to know much about football but why can't we score from set piece? Ok granted we've had difficulties scoring at Mermaids at the moment but when was the last time we scored a goal directly from a corner or set piece? I can only recall Siggy's header in Christchurch in recent times, and perhaps one where there was pinball in the 18 yard box after another shite corner kick which someone managed to sneak into the goal.

Can someone explain set pieces to me and why we seem to struggle so badly at them? Are we disproportionately bad at them? Because other teams seem to be able to nail theirs into my heart.

Shsssssssssshh..dont tell us that after 2900 plus posts :>).

IMHO its about quality delivery to where you hope someone will be if they havent been cleaned out by someone who is better at making space than they are getting into space...that and vertically challenged strikers will never out jump centrebacks. 

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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about 13 years ago

Boro4eva wrote:

ahmad wrote:

I can't claim to know much about football but why can't we score from set piece? Ok granted we've had difficulties scoring at Mermaids at the moment but when was the last time we scored a goal directly from a corner or set piece? I can only recall Siggy's header in Christchurch in recent times, and perhaps one where there was pinball in the 18 yard box after another shite corner kick which someone managed to sneak into the goal.

Can someone explain set pieces to me and why we seem to struggle so badly at them? Are we disproportionately bad at them? Because other teams seem to be able to nail theirs into my heart.

Shsssssssssshh..dont tell us that after 2900 plus posts :>).

IMHO its about quality delivery to where you hope someone will be if they havent been cleaned out by someone who is better at making space than they are getting into space...that and vertically challenged strikers will never out jump centrebacks. 

I post a lot but like DNA most of it is rubbish. Speaking of rubbish are we disproportionately rubbish when it comes to set piece goals and what is the solution if that is so? Is this a tactical thing or player driven? Because I thought set piece was supposed to give you at least some opportunity to score.

All I know is that when we give away a FK in a "danger area" I get anxious. But when we are awarded a FK in the same general area (or win one of the thousands of corners we have a tendency to collect) I no longer hold out any hope of scoring.

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about 13 years ago


totally.

I like tautologies because I like them.
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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

To be fair, quality set piece delivery has never been a Phoenix strong point.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 13 years ago

I was a bit perturbed to see the loch taking corners from both sides last night in Leo's absence. Looking forward to Hernandez whipping them in next year. Should hopefully lift our strike rate. We are a short team though.... makes it tough.

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about 13 years ago

Jag wrote:

Hard News wrote:

 ............ he was trying to pull out but momentum is a harsh mistress.

I actually laughed out loud when I read that!

 

I didn't resalise so many people had a mistress

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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about 13 years ago

theprof wrote:

yeah Fenton's last pass semms lacking - it's either confidence that someone will be there to receive it or he's not looking up for the player in front of him.

Yeah noticed that he  either didnt look up or was actually facing towards our goal and just sent the ball back to Dura or Siggy.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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about 13 years ago

ahmad wrote:

Can someone explain set pieces to me and why we seem to struggle so badly at them? Are we disproportionately bad at them? Because other teams seem to be able to nail theirs into my heart.



Can't remember the exact statistic how much percentage of goals are coming from set pieces. But it was something about 10-30%. At least enough % that some teams train new ones secretly.
Each time the Phoenix get a corner or free kick I know, nothing will happen! If you look at ADP's free kicks this weekend, they where all dangerous. Funny enough, Sanchez or Lia (?) where kicking them for while this season, now Leo is the man again.
If you have twenty corners, like the Nix sometimes kick, one should go in, that could be a differnce.
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about 13 years ago

number8 wrote:

Can't remember the exact statistic how much percentage of goals are coming from set pieces. But it was something about 10-30%. At least enough % that some teams train new ones secretly.



I got the statistics. From 100 goals (Bundesliga) are 9 corners, 4 free kicks, 7 penalty's.
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about 13 years ago

Jag wrote:

To be fair, quality set piece delivery has never been a Phoenix strong point.

Tony Lochhead was on corners. Nuff said.

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about 13 years ago

ahmad wrote:

I can't claim to know much about football but why can't we score from set piece? Ok granted we've had difficulties scoring at Mermaids at the moment but when was the last time we scored a goal directly from a corner or set piece? I can only recall Siggy's header in Christchurch in recent times, and perhaps one where there was pinball in the 18 yard box after another shite corner kick which someone managed to sneak into the goal.

Can someone explain set pieces to me and why we seem to struggle so badly at them? Are we disproportionately bad at them? Because other teams seem to be able to nail theirs into my heart.


1) we have nobody that can consistently deliver a quality ball

2) nobody attacks the ball, they all stand like statues waiting on the ball landing on their head. Meanwhile, the other team's defenders have attacked the ball and cleared

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 13 years ago

Leo scored a pearler from a 35 yd free kick in the rain (took a slight deflection from the wall).

Often repeated thereafter, but never successful.


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 13 years ago

Just watching a replay. Nobody can ever say I am unwilling to take punishment.

Most disturbing part for me is how disorganised we are, nobody seems to have a clue what's going on. Whilst Ricki can take some or most of the blame, there's surely enough old heads on the field that should know - or have they simply lost interest as some mention? 

Durante can take some responsibility as captain as well. 


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about 13 years ago

Sackofspuds wrote:

Jag wrote:

To be fair, quality set piece delivery has never been a Phoenix strong point.

Tony Lochhead was on corners. Nuff said.



The delivery isn't always the problem, and I don't think it was for this game. Some of Lochead's corners were pretty damn good, we should have got a decent shot on target out of at least one of them.
We score from corners when someone makes a good run, usually loosing a defender. Nobody moves anymore, and that's true of all our play. Soo little movement off the ball, and when there is it's usually from only one player, not the whole team like it should be.
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about 13 years ago

I'm not as analytical as many on here [in fact most] but there was a glaring example for me near the end of the game where [I think] Fenton was running down the left wing with the ball and going from the middle to the top third. Inside him were 3 players who didn't even look interested. You could have thrown a blanket over the 3 of them, there was no urgency to get into any position to either receive the ball or get in a position to score. At that moment it struck me, these people don't have that hunger any more, I've seen presidents grade players work harder to score than what these guys did. One of the players was Stein too, so we can't blame age and experience.

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about 13 years ago

CloneMM wrote:

Sackofspuds wrote:

Jag wrote:

To be fair, quality set piece delivery has never been a Phoenix strong point.

Tony Lochhead was on corners. Nuff said.



The delivery isn't always the problem, and I don't think it was for this game. Some of Lochead's corners were pretty damn good, we should have got a decent shot on target out of at least one of them.
We score from corners when someone makes a good run, usually loosing a defender. Nobody moves anymore, and that's true of all our play. Soo little movement off the ball, and when there is it's usually from only one player, not the whole team like it should be.

It was a generalisation. generally speaking, our set piece delivery is, and always has been, poor.

 

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 13 years ago

Even Marco wasn't that great - he takes em at MV and theyre pretty poor too.

a.haak

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about 13 years ago

Junior82 wrote:

Leo scored a pearler from a 35 yd free kick in the rain (took a slight deflection from the wall).

Often repeated thereafter, but never successful.



Getting a bit desperate when we have to go back to 2009 for examples of a good free kick!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 13 years ago

I'm not as analytical as many on here [in fact most] but there was a glaring example for me near the end of the game where [I think] Fenton was running down the left wing with the ball and going from the middle to the top third. Inside him were 3 players who didn't even look interested. You could have thrown a blanket over the 3 of them, there was no urgency to get into any position to either receive the ball or get in a position to score. At that moment it struck me, these people don't have that hunger any more, I've seen presidents grade players work harder to score than what these guys did. One of the players was Stein too, so we can't blame age and experience.


It's always the same, our players wait for the ball to come to them, they don't go to the ball. Schoolboy stuff really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 13 years ago

At least next year we'll have Hernandez on the set pieces!

I think part of the issue is that we actually don't have many good aerial players. Siggy and Dura of course, but who else? Smith is alright in the air but hasn't been playing. Sanchez seems to get a few headers in occasionally but is a midget. Brockie and Stein aren't small but don't seem to be that good at jumping and heading. We must be really easy to defend against on corners.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 13 years ago

I don't even think you can claim Dura asa weapon at set pieces. Sigmund really is our only one, and once you only have one, it's pretty easy to defend.

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about 13 years ago

At least next year we'll have Hernandez on the set pieces!

I think part of the issue is that we actually don't have many good aerial players. Siggy and Dura of course, but who else? Smith is alright in the air but hasn't been playing. Sanchez seems to get a few headers in occasionally but is a midget. Brockie and Stein aren't small but don't seem to be that good at jumping and heading. We must be really easy to defend against on corners.



Siggy 109 games 7 goals
Dura 156 games 1 goal

Between the two of them 265 games 8 goals.
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about 13 years ago

That's not counting Dura's penalty in the play-offs.


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 13 years ago

Nope, just the lonely goal from our preliminary final against Sydney in 09/10.
Although I do remember him scoring a header in our fiesty friendly with Boca Juniors, as well as an own goal.

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about 13 years ago

Sackofspuds wrote:

Nope, just the lonely goal from our preliminary final against Sydney in 09/10.
Although I do remember him scoring a header in our fiesty friendly with Boca Juniors, as well as an own goal.

I've been at 2 games at RoF in which Dura scored an oggy :O

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about 13 years ago

Sackofspuds wrote:

Nope, just the lonely goal from our preliminary final against Sydney in 09/10.


Your memory fails you. He has scored two.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

Sackofspuds wrote:

Nope, just the lonely goal from our preliminary final against Sydney in 09/10.


Your memory fails you. He has scored two.

Discuss.

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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

http://www.ultimatealeague.com/player_detail.php?player_id=168

He scored last season as well against Cold Ghost

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about 13 years ago

JonoNewton wrote:

http://www.ultimatealeague.com/player_detail.php?player_id=168

He scored last season as well against Cold Ghost

This.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

JonoNewton wrote:

http://www.ultimatealeague.com/player_detail.php?player_id=168

He scored last season as well against Cold Ghost

This.


I am ashamed. I also got the games wrong,

Siggy 109 games 7 goals
Dura  162 games 2 goals

Between the two of them
271 games 9 goals

Still wouldn't classify them as Set piece threats though.
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