Phoenix and the Asian Champions League
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As per the front page
Eligibility of clubs to participate in AFC Champions League
Football Federation Australia
Renewal of Wellington Phoenix FC�s license in the Hyundai A-League was approved by FIFA until 2016. AFC acknowledged the extension of Wellington Phoenix FC�s license and its participation in Australia Competitions. As FIFA/AFC/OFC agreement, clubs from Australia will be dealt with like it is now.
Only Australian clubs can participate in ACL and highest placed eligible clubs will take ACL spots reserved for clubs from A-League in case Wellington Phoenix FC wins the first, second position in the A-League, or wins the cup tournament.
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Bummer.
Looks like we'll just have to win the a-league to spite them then.
Looks like we'll just have to win the a-league to spite them then.
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ok then.... OCL anyone?
How would that work?
Three for me, and two for them.
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We get included in the OCL draw and have to fit in with all their requirements, don't know if there aren't any?
EDIT: could have had our youth setup games actually be part of NZFC and if they qualify then the team does? But now thats not the case, I guess we would get straight entry to the cup?
playwithFire2010-07-28 09:18:33
EDIT: could have had our youth setup games actually be part of NZFC and if they qualify then the team does? But now thats not the case, I guess we would get straight entry to the cup?
playwithFire2010-07-28 09:18:33
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Ah sport and politics, what a great f*cking formula.
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Or alternatively we go to Fifa, say we want to pursue the opportunity to play in a champions league and let them do the hard work?
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Or alternatively we go to Fifa, say we want to pursue the opportunity to play in a champions league and let them do the hard work?
I'm sure this is an option, but it would help our case if we got into a position where we are eligible (i.e win the league), then we can say, what now?
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Pretty sure FIFA are why we are not playing competitively in the NZFC, so O-League is out and personally I don't think it is the correct avenue for the Phoenix. The Phoenix are an Australian club.
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I suppose that if we won we could conspire with the third club for us to be the team that turns up for the first ACL fixture, just to piss them off.
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Or alternatively we go to Fifa, say we want to pursue the opportunity to play in a champions league and let them do the hard work?
I'm sure this is an option, but it would help our case if we got into a position where we are eligible (i.e win the league), then we can say, what now?
Yeah but I'd rather have it sorted before we win so we know what we are playing for. If we bring it up once we win, it wouldn't resolve for months and we would be most unlikely to be included in any competition
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Pretty sure FIFA are why we are not playing competitively in the NZFC, so O-League is out and personally I don't think it is the correct avenue for the Phoenix. The Phoenix are an Australian club.
Yeah I would much rather ACL as we are a team in an australian/ asian competition. But as this is no longer avaliable for us, surely we are entitled to some sort of competition
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We get included in the OCL draw and have to fit in with all their requirements, don't know if there aren't any?
EDIT: could have had our youth setup games actually be part of NZFC and if they qualify then the team does? But now thats not the case, I guess we would get straight entry to the cup?
EDIT: could have had our youth setup games actually be part of NZFC and if they qualify then the team does? But now thats not the case, I guess we would get straight entry to the cup?
No. Sorry but can't see that working out in the long run. NZFC clubs and other Oceania clubs wouldn't have a bar of it.
Three for me, and two for them.
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The Phoenix are an Australian club.
Bluemagic? Is that you?!?
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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It's true. Just like the Kingz who bluemagic used to support 'til he dies'
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It should be plain and simple. OCL or ACL? If we aren't classed as an Asian club then we must be an Oceanic one? They can't decline us both ways. I would love the Phoenix to be in the OCL, if we could make the top four we would play some pretty decent teams.
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ACL won't happen until NZ confirm a move to Asia.
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We get included in the OCL draw and have to fit in with all their requirements, don't know if there aren't any?
EDIT: could have had our youth setup games actually be part of NZFC and if they qualify then the team does? But now thats not the case, I guess we would get straight entry to the cup?
[/QUOTE]
No. Sorry but can't see that working out in the long run. NZFC clubs and other Oceania clubs wouldn't have a bar of it.
EDIT: could have had our youth setup games actually be part of NZFC and if they qualify then the team does? But now thats not the case, I guess we would get straight entry to the cup?
[/QUOTE]
No. Sorry but can't see that working out in the long run. NZFC clubs and other Oceania clubs wouldn't have a bar of it.
I completely agree with:
[QUOTE=Luis Garcia]It should be plain and simple. OCL or ACL? If we aren't classed as an Asian club then we must be an Oceanic one? They can't decline us both ways. I would love the Phoenix to be in the OCL, if we could make the top four we would play some pretty decent teams.
I know the NZFC teams wouldn't agree, but why should it be their decision who they play in a competition.
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ACL won't happen until NZ confirm a move to Asia.
Exactly. So we should be in the O League?
..But then we're an Australian Club. It goes round in circles. But at some point someone has got to draw the line and say look you can't play here because you're from New Zealand so instead go play in the O League.
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Of course they wouldn't agree because that automatically makes it harder for them to win it. Tough. But it shouldn't be their decision anyway. If they can beat the Phoenix it would be a huge occasion. To play against a Youth Team would draw a crowd but imagine an NZFC playing the Phoenix? You'd get a few thousand. Having the Phoenix in the O-League would increase the profile of the competition dramatically.Luis Garcia2010-07-28 11:47:20
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We get included in the OCL draw and have to fit in with all their requirements, don't know if there aren't any?
EDIT: could have had our youth setup games actually be part of NZFC and if they qualify then the team does? But now thats not the case, I guess we would get straight entry to the cup?
[/QUOTE]
No. Sorry but can't see that working out in the long run. NZFC clubs and other Oceania clubs wouldn't have a bar of it.
EDIT: could have had our youth setup games actually be part of NZFC and if they qualify then the team does? But now thats not the case, I guess we would get straight entry to the cup?
[/QUOTE]
No. Sorry but can't see that working out in the long run. NZFC clubs and other Oceania clubs wouldn't have a bar of it.
I completely agree with:
[QUOTE=Luis Garcia]It should be plain and simple. OCL or ACL? If we aren't classed as an Asian club then we must be an Oceanic one? They can't decline us both ways. I would love the Phoenix to be in the OCL, if we could make the top four we would play some pretty decent teams.
I know the NZFC teams wouldn't agree, but why should it be their decision who they play in a competition.
Why should it be the Phoenix's decision? What power do they have? None.
Three for me, and two for them.
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Exactly, and no one said they had any power. Other than to ask fifa where we stand and see where they want us. We can ask for inclusion from fifa, who do have the power
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You don't honestly believe FIFA would approve it do you?
Three for me, and two for them.
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...This all would have worked out if Aussie stayed in Oceania...
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You don't honestly believe FIFA would approve it do you?
i don't know. But surely if we press our case then they will at least recognise our situation, then maybe they will think about finding somewhere we belong.
I don't think we can be left out in the cold from both regions for the rest of forever
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You don't honestly believe FIFA would approve it do you?
I think they would have a committment to ensuring continuity across the various Champions Leagues, so that every team in the world has the possibility to win and go to the World Club Cup. I think I've read that somewhere (that the Phoenix must have a path to the WCC).
But what they would decide at the end of the day is anyone's guess - maybe Wellington hosts the World Club Cup and we qualify as hosts? 
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...This all would have worked out if Aussie stayed in Oceania...
Then the OCL would be nothing but an A-League pre-season tournament.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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...This all would have worked out if Aussie stayed in Oceania...
Then the OCL would be nothing but an A-League pre-season tournament.
Explain.
Three for me, and two for them.
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Definitely not the OCL. We need the ACL and if we're denied we just need to keep annoying them til we get it. We won't really be seriously considered 100% in the A-League if we can't even aim to compete in the ACL. Plus, the O-League is terrible, no pride in winning it at all if it was the Phoenix who won it.
loyalgunner2010-07-28 13:37:03
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ok then.... OCL anyone?
How would that work?
If Asia have said no ACL for the Nix and if FIFA also agree with this, then they should have the right to play in Oceania.
And then we can beat the Asian side at the Club world cup
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Definitely not the OCL. We need the ACL and if we're denied we just need to keep annoying them til we get it. We won't really be seriously considered 100% in the A-League if we can't even aim to compete in the ACL. Plus, the O-League is terrible, no pride in winning it at all if it was the Phoenix who won it.
What a sh*t comment. Youre basically taking everything away from domestic football in NZ. I believe that the top NZFC sides have every chance of beating the Nix.
You really think the Nix would win the O-league final 10-0?
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...This all would have worked out if Aussie stayed in Oceania...
Then the OCL would be nothing but an A-League pre-season tournament.
Only A-League teams would ever win it; only A-League derbies would be competitive matches.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Definitely not the OCL. We need the ACL and if we're denied we just need to keep annoying them til we get it. We won't really be seriously considered 100% in the A-League if we can't even aim to compete in the ACL. Plus, the O-League is terrible, no pride in winning it at all if it was the Phoenix who won it.
What a sh*t comment. Youre basically taking everything away from domestic football in NZ. I believe that the top NZFC sides have every chance of beating the Nix.
You really think the Nix would win the O-league final 10-0?
Not necessarily and even if I did I said nothing to suggest it, even in the least. Come on man, I even said 'if it was the Phoenix who won it'.
Try reading something ludicrous into the above too if you want.
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...This all would have worked out if Aussie stayed in Oceania...
Then the OCL would be nothing but an A-League pre-season tournament.
Only A-League teams would ever win it; only A-League derbies would be competitive matches.
Ok, here's the thing though.
- The O-League is played around the same time as the A-League season, so it couldn't possibly be a pre season tournament of any description.
- Only x amount of A-League teams would be allowed in, say 2 or 3 max, so there wouldn't be much chance of derbies except for the odd match here or there.
- Everyone said only NZFC teams would ever win it once Australia left Oceania and look what happened this year. Upsets happen every now and then. Nothing is a formality.
Three for me, and two for them.
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I think someone (Sam Malcolmsen?) on Radio Sport made the suggestion in the Nix's first or second season that the NZFC winner qualifies for the OCL, and the second placed team could play the Nix for NZ's second spot, if the ACL issue couldn't be resolved. Seems like a reasonable idea to me, although I am coming from the perspective of a Nix supporter.
I would make the argument that it might benefit NZ football, but the ACKC would be quick to point out the lack of NZers in the Nix starting XI.
In the end, I think the best the Nix can do is keep pushing for an ACL spot.
IIRC, the major stumbling block is the fact that NZ players at the Nix aren't considered as imports. If Terry, the FFA and AFC can find a compromise here, that ACL path might open up.
Of course, we should all remember that Phoenix still have get into an A-League ACL qualifying place first.
wolfman2010-07-28 16:18:03
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Are other non-asian teams who play in asia also excluded?
Like the french team in Singapore?
Like the french team in Singapore?
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Don't get me wrong, I am not going to say the Phoenix should play in the OFC. Like News said, the Phoenix are an Australian football club.
The problem is, NZ Football won't make the hard decision to move to Asia.
And yes, I do believe the All Whites, Football Ferns, and the youth teams should also play through Asia too.
The problem is lack of long-term vision in NZ Football IMO.Ard Righ2010-07-28 16:21:24
The problem is, NZ Football won't make the hard decision to move to Asia.
And yes, I do believe the All Whites, Football Ferns, and the youth teams should also play through Asia too.
The problem is lack of long-term vision in NZ Football IMO.Ard Righ2010-07-28 16:21:24
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Are other non-asian teams who play in asia also excluded?
Like the french team in Singapore?
Not completely sure, but I think they're seen as a Singaporean club, playing in the S-League (and therefore by S-League import rules), with French connections.Like the french team in Singapore?
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