Phoenix Formation 12/13

We need more football conversation happening - well thats what I want to talk about, so I'm interested in people's thoughts on what formation we should use/ what we want to see/ what we think we will see.

I was pretty determined that we would play a 433 as I thought that it utilises the best players we have and ricki seems to like it. It can also be seen as a 451 or 4231 depending on how you wanna structure it, but in essence, I would expect something like this:

                Moss
Lia   Sigmund Durante Lochhead
         Muscat    Smith
              Sanchez
Brockie        Ifill            Totori

However I've been following these preseason games and noticed we are playing more of a 4132 formation. I believe this is in hope that we pickup another strike partner for Ifill - my problem is that it means no real place for Smith with Manny in midfield:

                   Moss
Bertos Sigmund Durante Lochhead
                  Muscat
Brockie       Sanchez           Totori
            Ifill        Pavlovich

My concerns are that all our imports should be good enough to start - although Totori may be on the bench to begin with. It seems silyl to have signed Smith and Sanchez if we don't want to play them both. Also the Manny into midfield promise seems silly but I'm working with that. 

The one thing I know is that RH likes his fullbacks to really push up, and I could actually see that working with Manny at DM and Leo at RB. If they are given the license to go forward, you would expect Manny to drop in between Siggy & Dura. This happens with teams like Barca where Alves pushes right up and Busquets becomes a defender. In this scenario I would be okay with Leo at RB because he isn't required to defend as much, plus Manny has the traits to play this role. I do however have an issue with the men in front of them in terms of the balance defensively. 

Anyways, I'm wondering if others here are thinking the same - or completely differently, but I'm very interested to hear

Drop Pavlovich from the 2nd one and add smith in midfield. Which makes it the same as the first formation,which is probably about what they're looking at. 

Gourdie tweets that Ricki is very interested in seeing if Leo B can hack it at RB.

Yeah saw that tweet. I personally think he would do a better job than Lia. Not really place for him anywhere else in the starting line up.

Only issue is that means Lia is now a midfield bench player in front of Lindsay who deserves some minutes off the bench this year- I rate him higher than Lia personally. 

Also with Leo at RB we have less wingers and off the top of my head I think that makes our bench look a bit weak.

I'd personally be happy with a bench of Fenton, Lindsay + Defensive cover or striker

My guess would be that if we needed winger cover Leo will get pushed up and Lia will slot into RB

Hm I personally think we still require a replacement for Ward. I firgure Pantelis was supposed to be the guy but sounds like he's well out of action so I reckon we need ought to trying to pick out another Aussie who can do a job, at least to provide some depth to the squad.

But I suppose theres (hopefully) another signing comming and that might make the squad look little less thin and who knows, maybe some of the youth boys could do a reasonable job on the wing.

After having seen Lia there, given that Manny is theoretically not an option, and the other option appears to be Downey, I am OK with Leo being given an opportunity there, especially if Brockie and Totori are in front of him out wide.

Feverish would be just as much use as Ward (in my opinion, no bullying).

I reckon we've had no major losses since last season (apart from Brownie) but added 4 international players.  If we can still find that striker we look pretty good.

It doesn't really mean we have less wingers. We currently have Brockie, Ifill, Bertos, Sanchez, Smith, Downey and Totori who all can play on the wings (some we would prefer not to but have in the past).  And if Leo was starting at RB and someone capable at RB on the bench, the match day squad doesnt change if that RB was starting and Leo was on the bench.

Yeah but almost all of those players are in our starting 11 some where else already. If we move them to a wing we have to cover them. 

If one of our wings went down for 6 weeks we would have Downey (no thanks), Lia in to RB and Leo up, Lia/Lindsay in mids for Smith up, or Fenton/Boyd/new striker in Ifill to wing, or Youth to wing. Or we can get into formation change and play Sanchez there.

Another striker would give a bit of flexbility for Ifill to fill in the wing but he can't do 90 minutes on the wing anymore can he?

I've probably missed something but I just find the option of a straight swap with a Pantelis injury replacement much more attractive than any of the other options I can think of. Better to have a minimum of personal change in the starting 11 then having to move 2 or 3 players around for an injury, especially mid-game.

Hypothetically with the players we have signed, we have a midfield 3 of Sanchez, Smith and Manny with Lia on the bench and Leo at RB, Ifill up front and Brockie and Totori on the wings (based on pre-season games). If one of our wingers was injured Leo would move to wing and Manny or Lia would shift to RB. If two wingers are injured then Pav could come in up front and would see Ifill and Leo on the wings. If Ifill, Brockie and Totori are injured you are then looking at Downey on the wing or you shift Sanchez to the wing and bring in Lindsay and push Smith further forward - which would be the same if Downey was injured.

It does bring up an interesting issue on the wings. Traditionally that would be the easiest place to throw in a youngster so I would hope fenton gets signed and is given a shot there. It is a position we dont have as much depth as we thought we'd have - so I'm almost treating fenton as a guarantee to be signed

If we are gonna play a front 3, then Ifill & Brockie are locked in for two of those spots, with Totori the current other option on the wing if we dont sign another striker.

If we do sign a striker and want to fit smith, sanchez & muscat all into a central mid three, then either ifill or the new striker is going to have to play wide, with totori on the bench as wide cover. 

Oh btw, its nice to have some propper footballing discussions going on 

How likely is it that we would have two wingers injured

Tom Biss could probably wing as well at a pinch.

leo bertos at right back is a joke. manny is by far the best option there. aaron clapham should've been given a shot in the midfield (replacing brown)

We shouldn't be blase about losing greenacre - without him Ifill doesn't play wide which changes our approach a bit.

I actually preferred ifill playing in a more central position anyway. Think it could work out well. Bertos at RB terrifies me though. 

I think Leo at RB can do a better job than Lia - at the WC he was decent enough on defence in the wingback role and the quality of players he was up against was much better than the average HAL left winger. The other option would be Brockie who is versatile and could overlap well. He might have scored a few last year to push a claim as an attacking force but prior to that his goalscoring record was patchy. I also would like to see Boxall given a try there, he might lack the attacking aspects Ricki wants in his fullbacks but he'd be the most defensively solid option. Maybe play him there when we are away to the likes of Brisbane or MV.

I agree that 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 is the way to go with our current squad. However I worry that we'll see what we saw at the start of last year: wingers getting into space and crossing high balls into the box for our midget strikers to get nowhere near. Especially with Brown gone we really lack an aerial threat. I'd almost rather see Brockie and Totori playing as "inverse" wingers, cutting in and shooting rather than going wide and crossing. Or at least playing low hard crosses back across the box quickly rather than hanging balls in the air. (hehe, hanging balls)

Of course if we get a new striker with a bit of physical presence that'll change the complexion of things entirely.

 Based on out current squad, this is what I would prefer. Won't see it though.          

                          Moss

Manny         Durante   Sigmund        Lochhead

                  Lia             Smith

                        Sanchez

Brockie               Ifill                 Totori 

Agree with the above squad - however with Manny guaranteed a spot in the midfield I think Bertos is worth a crack before Lia

Why is manny guaranteed a spot in midfield? Did i miss something? 

That is also the squad I'd prefer. Manny is our best option at right back,and lia can do just as good a job in midfield (a better job than he or Leo would do at RB anyway). 

Lia V bertos is interesting.  Lia would be a better tackler, but Bertos would have more pass.  I dislike both options.

I think with manny as a defensive midfielder we could almost play him as a false defender (thats the craze phrase right now haha)

But give the two fullbacks a lot of license to go forward and tell Manny that he needs to stay back and sit in between the two centers essentially adding a defender to the backline when the RB or LB push forward.

In this way, Leo would be better than Lia for me

That's actually what they did against miramar,and it looked dodgy as hell. I'd hate for them to be playing like that once the season begins. If that's what we want to do,we'd be better off playing 3-5-2 

Hmm no doubt he can do it, I just think he's a better player when he doesn't have to do the donkey work up front - contesting high balls, chasing down scraps etc.  Greenacre was very unselfish in the way he performed that role.

Get him 1 on 1 out wide and he's the best player in the league

Fair call. He Definetly needs someone up there to take a lot of that burden for him,and lay it off or him to work his magic. It does look like we may end up playing 2 up front this season (hopefully anyway),do in my opinion (no insider knowledge)  that would be ideal. 

Hopefully this new Striker will fill up this central role allowing some freedom for Ifill on the wing!

I like your thinking playwithfire.

Opposition teams would target Leo on the right but they'd also have to be careful as he and Brockie cauld cause havoc down our right.  Brockie cutting in with a fit Bertos charging up in support - with extra space due to coming from deep - could be very dangerous.

Manny is a good devensive midfielder and while he's not exactly a Busquets to drop back as a third CB, he's great defensively and would certainly help cover Leo at RB (along with Siggy). 

Not saying we just do it blindly, but if they can do the job then I definitely think it would be a very positive and attacking way to play.  I'm sick of being reactive and planning for teams coming for us.  If we go at them, they could play withdrawn and we're away.

Given the other options at RB I think this is the best option but I'm not convinced we'll see it...

As his head hits the pillow.

was part of his signing for a few more seasons, Ricki guaranteed he'd be back at the DM role - his favoured spot, Lia did ok at RB, neither he or Leo are defenders though.

I think we'll see this for the start of the season

                        Moss

Leo     Durante   Sigmund        Lochhead

                  Manny      Smith

                        Sanchez

Brockie               Ifill                 Totori

Bench: Lia, Pantelis, Pavlovich, Paston

Yeah I agree with that formation, and if we sign a new striker then I can see Totori shifted out of the starting lineup.

Watched this video of Alex Smith again today and remembered how awesome he was for us last year. So underated. Hope him and Manny form a decent partnership because they are both good at breaking up play, good distribution, cover a lot of ground and know when to attack.

Smith is class. I totally didn't understand the angst round these parts when we re-signed him

Lia did OK ar right back? Seems an extraordinarily generous statement.

Pantelis not coming back any time soon.

I think Alex Smith will be able to fulfill the Tim Brown role now that Manny can be an outright Defensive-Mid. Hope to see Smith attacking a fair bit more knowing that Manny has got that holding role down.

And about Leo to Right Back, I can see it happening and can see it succeding with a healthy overlapping option on the right.

For the opposition?