Wellington Phoenix Men

Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 1)

3999 replies · 993,112 views Locked
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
It's just an example. Nothing these guys have done yet has given me any hope that they actually know what it takes to run a successful football team. If money was all it took then GCU would own this league. I am open-minded and will happily admit if and when I am proven wrong, but I don't change my opinions until they've been forcibly knocked out of my head by the breezeblock of evidence.
 
You're not actually a woman, are you?

Nostalgia isnt what it used to be...........

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Has anyone checked the Phoenix website lately?
 
I heard a rumour that it's now got a "Buy Now, Start=Reserve" tag on the home page..........

Nostalgia isnt what it used to be...........

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
I saw a press release from the YFX about the sale of share parcels of $20,000.00 being released to its members. The warning was don,t expect a dividend but you will get a multidend at the end of each finacial year.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
True all of the above. I certainly don't think Terry's a football genius, but he has shown the knack of (when he could afford it) hiring the right people. So the test question for me is: are they going to start by firing Nathan G, and if so, who will they replace him with? I'm not sure how Nix corporate structure works - could they sack Ricki directly or would only the CEO be able to do that?

To put my worries more clearly, I am terrified that these people have no actual clue about what they should do and have thus been listening to Billy Harris / the ACFC Knitting Circle / (fill in the blank with NZ footballing numpty of your choice).


I find it fascinating that you have been so postitive for Terry, and yet terrified of these people. They have as much potential to run this well as he has, if not more. They havent got where they are without running their businesses well.

If Nathan G leaves (personally I hope not, I think his future looks shaky sticking with Terry) I dont see any reason to think they cant replace him with someone very capable.


Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Well Ashley runs his cut price sportswear business very well, but as far as his plaything NUFC goes....

As JD has stated - it depends on if they choose to leave the running of the club to the management or dabble in.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Well aware of that J82, but I dont know why the worst is being imagined wil happen before they even begin.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
After seeing their backgrounds that feverish posted my glasses have become quite rosey again, but only time will tell really so it's natural to be apprehensive about the unknown.

And of course we have to wait until Monday at least before anything else.


Edit: As for Nathan - I wouldn't want to see him replaced until the season is well underway and the club has settled down (or even until the end of the season).   
Junior822011-09-16 07:58:28

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Last I heard, Sam / Gareth Morgan were  reasonably competent at running a business. Rob Morrison is not exactly a dullard either.
 
Perhaps, just perhaps aside from not having to look down the back of the couch and pinch the milk money from petty cash to pay wages, they may actually be good for the governance of the club. Remember as owners, that is their role, governance.
 
A key component to any sucessful organisation is the stability given through good governance, which is something we are lacking at the moment.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Yep. Governance. Not management.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
sthn.jeff wrote:
Last I heard, Sam / Gareth Morgan were  reasonably competent at running a business. Rob Morrison is not exactly a dullard either.
 
Perhaps, just perhaps aside from not having to look down the back of the couch and pinch the milk money from petty cash to pay wages, they may actually be good for the governance of the club. Remember as owners, that is their role, governance.
 
A key component to any sucessful organisation is the stability given through good governance, which is something we are lacking at the moment.
 
Sorry Jeff, I have to call you out on that one.
 
The Nix' current issues are caused by a lack of certainty over funding, that's it. In all other respects Terry has always run the club really well.
 
If Terry had never hit money problems I'm sure most people would have been more than happy to continue under his ownership.
 

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
james dean wrote:
I actually think the more interesting question is what happens if he does find the cash?
 
Do I think he will find the money? No
 
Would I bet my kids' lives on him not finding the money? No
 
Will I feel gutted if he doesn't find the money? Yes
 
Will I continue to support him if somehow he can find the money? Yes
 
As you say JD, I think the last question will be the really interesting one for most people.
 

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Already posted in the transfer speculation thread but there's some good info in this article (even though it still has that annoying Dom Post undercurrent of sh*t-stirring):
 
 
Good to see Iffy playing a nice straight bat and supporting Terry, as well as firing a shot at Kewell.
 

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
terminator_x wrote:
sthn.jeff wrote:
Last I heard, Sam / Gareth Morgan were  reasonably competent at running a business. Rob Morrison is not exactly a dullard either.
 
Perhaps, just perhaps aside from not having to look down the back of the couch and pinch the milk money from petty cash to pay wages, they may actually be good for the governance of the club. Remember as owners, that is their role, governance.
 
A key component to any sucessful organisation is the stability given through good governance, which is something we are lacking at the moment.
 
Sorry Jeff, I have to call you out on that one.
 
The Nix' current issues are caused by a lack of certainty over funding, that's it. In all other respects Terry has always run the club really well.
 
If Terry had never hit money problems I'm sure most people would have been more than happy to continue under his ownership.
 
 
 
Fair enough TX but in that context I suppose I was meaning problems with money being the present issue with Governance
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
terminator_x wrote:
james dean wrote:
I actually think the more interesting question is what happens if he does find the cash?
 
Do I think he will find the money? No
 
Would I bet my kids' lives on him not finding the money? No
 
Will I feel gutted if he doesn't find the money? Yes
 
Will I continue to support him if somehow he can find the money? Yes
 
As you say JD, I think the last question will be the really interesting one for most people.
 
IMO if Terry could find 2 mill, it should really be whacked off the highest interest loan he has at the moment. It would probably be the equivalent of around $1000 a day thrown away. Long term, not allocating money properly, will be even worse. rjmiller2011-09-16 08:49:55
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
if i was owed money from terry, and he was still throwing it on the Nix, i'd be pretty pissed.

He definitely needs to leave gracefully and soon, the longer he leaves it, the less respect he will have when he leave in my opinion.


Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
rjmiller wrote:
terminator_x wrote:
james dean wrote:
I actually think the more interesting question is what happens if he does find the cash?
 
Do I think he will find the money? No
 
Would I bet my kids' lives on him not finding the money? No
 
Will I feel gutted if he doesn't find the money? Yes
 
Will I continue to support him if somehow he can find the money? Yes
 
As you say JD, I think the last question will be the really interesting one for most people.
 
IMO if Terry could find 2 mill, it should really be whacked off the highest interest loan he has at the moment. It would probably be the equivalent of around $1000 a day thrown away. Long term, not allocating money properly, will be even worse.
 
 
Of course the other issue is that if Terry could do the ultimate and win lotto and find $2m, would his numerous other Creditors allow him to tip it into the Nix Bucket?
 
I think there would be some grumpy financiers about if there loans are in default and that happened.
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Grandadi wrote:
You're not actually a woman, are you?


I'm a goalkeeper. Perhaps that overrides the estrogen or something.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Ifill is so much the man!
 
Love his FIFA10 Andy Gray-esque quote: "A lot of teams look great on paper but we don't play on paper."  
 
"It's played on that green thing in front of us. There's going to be a few twists and turns today"
 

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Junior82 wrote:
Ifill is so much the man!
�

Love his FIFA10 Andy Gray-esque quote: "A lot of teams look great on paper but we don't play on paper."��

�

"It's played on that green thing in front of us. There's going to be a few twists and turns today"

�
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=C-Diddy's Thoughts after reading Ifill's words...]Sh*t! Think of something cold... Queenstown! Swimming in the Southern Ocean! Antarctica! Aargh...not working......DAWN FRENCH!!!!

Ahhh. That's better!


"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Great interview from Ifill, it's just a shame that the Doom Post ruined it with their negative undertones. Sack fairfax!

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
im just wondering if it might be time to give up on all the speculating and have a few days when the forum can be just about discussing football. It is of great interest to us all what happens at the Nix but all the news titbits and speculation dont really add up to an awful lot until we get an official info release. Doom post must love reading all the speculationg on here

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
paullt wrote:
im just wondering if it might be time to give up on all the speculating and have a few days when the forum can be just about discussing football. It is of great interest to us all what happens at the Nix but all the news titbits and speculation dont really add up to an awful lot until we get an official info release. Doom post must love reading all the speculationg on here


Its where they get 95% of their information for their articles from!

Just ask Threak!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
sthn.jeff wrote:
rjmiller wrote:
terminator_x wrote:
james dean wrote:
I actually think the more interesting question is what happens if he does find the cash?
 
Do I think he will find the money? No
 
Would I bet my kids' lives on him not finding the money? No
 
Will I feel gutted if he doesn't find the money? Yes
 
Will I continue to support him if somehow he can find the money? Yes
 
As you say JD, I think the last question will be the really interesting one for most people.
 
IMO if Terry could find 2 mill, it should really be whacked off the highest interest loan he has at the moment. It would probably be the equivalent of around $1000 a day thrown away. Long term, not allocating money properly, will be even worse.
 
 
Of course the other issue is that if Terry could do the ultimate and win lotto and find $2m, would his numerous other Creditors allow him to tip it into the Nix Bucket?
 
I think there would be some grumpy financiers about if there loans are in default and that happened.
 
If it's true that the FFA's deadline is Monday then it seems specifically timed to force his hand before the scheduled meeting with his creditors next Friday (the 23rd) and court appearance the following Monday (the 26th). Which seems strange to me. Wouldn't you want to see if he can hammer out a deal with his creditors first?
 
Or maybe it means that the FFA is hoping he'll come up with a $2m guarantee for them first, and bugger the rest of his creditors.
 
Or maybe it means they don't believe he's got $2m anyway so why drag it out?
 
Or maybe it means they've received a fax from WGA which says Terry's getting the $100m today so everybody just chill the f**k out.
 

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
paullt wrote:
im just wondering if it might be time to give up on all the speculating and have a few days when the forum can be just about discussing football. It is of great interest to us all what happens at the Nix but all the news titbits and speculation dont really add up to an awful lot until we get an official info release. Doom post must love reading all the speculationg on here
 
Worst suggestion ever. This forum has been on fire for the past 6 months. After this, just talking about football is going to seem so boring. I am expecting it to be a bit like coming off crack.
 

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
paullt wrote:
im just wondering if it might be time to give up on all the speculating and have a few days when the forum can be just about discussing football. It is of great interest to us all what happens at the Nix but all the news titbits and speculation dont really add up to an awful lot until we get an official info release. Doom post must love reading all the speculationg on here
 
There is a football thread in the midst of this financial forum.
 

Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
I certainly don't think Terry's a football genius, but he has shown the knack of (when he could afford it) hiring the right people. So the test question for me is: are they going to start by firing Nathan G, and if so, who will they replace him with? I'm not sure how Nix corporate structure works - could they sack Ricki directly or would only the CEO be able to do that?

To put my worries more clearly, I am terrified that these people have no actual clue about what they should do and have thus been listening to Billy Harris / the ACFC Knitting Circle / (fill in the blank with NZ footballing numpty of your choice).
These guys are coming in from the perspective of retaining the Nix in Wellington.
 
It just seems to me they are not coming in with any agenda against the way the team plays, against the coach or current organisation.  From what Sam Morgan is quoted as saying they respect Terry for what he has achieved with the team for Wellington and would not step in unless Terry is not able to continue financing and running the team.
 
They'll leave it alone and look to support the guys in place, then work at a governance level to ensure good marketing, recruitment and budget planning is in place.  
 
The key questions for me are:
1) What are the skills required to govern a football team?
I'd say some sports marketing abilty, some football judgement and contacts mostly for recruitment of key staff and a modicum of oversight of coaching and player recruitment plans, and the usual management, interpersonal and financial skills required for running any business.  Plus that passion to motivate, support and enthuse the management coach and team well.
2) Do the new owner have those skills?
I don't think you can doubt their business skills and from what I've read about Trade Me, Sam Morgan at least knows big time about creating an enthusiastic and high perfoming culture, and about recruiting and empowering good people.  The only areas you could wonder about would be sports marketing, and football connections and judgement. 
 
Marketing; I'd bet big bucks these guys have the nouse to overseee a CEO managing that and to ensure the right sort of plans are put in place and delivered on.  And the dollar committment should sure as heck give them the motivation to see that done well.
 
The football nouse and passion - well that's the real question.  I'd bet these guys desire for their costs to be mimimised will be enough for them to want the club performing well on the pitch.    So all that's left is the extent to which they have the nouse to hire (if and when required) the best head coach and CEO, and their ability to provide those guys with a reasonable board level challenge and sounding board and support on football matters.  Maybe they'll want to add to the Board to cover that.  Maybe they'd be interested in Terry having a role, or some-one like Terry who has that football enthusiasm and knowledge.  Maybe they get by for a while with just Ricki and his own contacts and then look to pick up Ryan Nelsen when he comes home.....
 
 
mjp22011-09-16 13:56:03
Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
It's a sign!!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/cutestuff/5638330/Turtle-perky-despite-ordeal

Fuck this stupid game

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
TopLeft07 wrote:
It's a sign!!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/cutestuff/5638330/Turtle-perky-despite-ordeal




"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
james dean wrote:
Owners don't run a football team - that is the route to all sorts of problems.  You appoint a CEO to run it off the pitch and a coach or director of football or whatever to run the football side.  Then you have a board that oversees it all  The owners may have an involvement in the commercial operation because of their experience, maybe help with sponsors and sponsorship, but they don't need to run the club.
 
Terry had no experience running a football club, but in the first 2 years when we had an experienced off field team we were one of if not the best run club in the league
 
This is a bit of a fantasy.  Generally, chairmen run football clubs, usually because it's their money.
 
 
Edit - in England at least.  Bits of continental europe have much less of this (Germany, France, the Scando countries), and bits have it much worse than England - Italy, Greece.
Smithy2011-09-16 14:27:09

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
TopLeft07 wrote:
It's a sign!!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/cutestuff/5638330/Turtle-perky-despite-ordeal


A sign that we're going to sign Thurtell?!?

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
TopLeft07 wrote:
It's a sign!!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/cutestuff/5638330/Turtle-perky-despite-ordeal


A sign that we're going to sign Thurtell?!?

Read it how you will but I liked the "Phoenix perky despite ordeal" part and all the talk of Phoenix survival.

While we're on the subject though, Payne > TMNThurtell IMO! (not that I have seen a lot of each)TopLeft072011-09-16 14:49:29

Fuck this stupid game

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Smithy wrote:
james dean wrote:
Owners don't run a football team - that is the route to all sorts of problems.� You appoint a CEO to run it off the pitch and a coach or director of football or whatever to run the football side.� Then you have a board that oversees it all� The owners�may have an involvement in the commercial operation because of their experience, maybe help with sponsors and sponsorship, but they don't need to run the club.
�

Terry had no experience running a football club, but in the first 2 years when we had an experienced off field team we were one of if not the best run club in the league


�
This is a bit of a fantasy.� Generally, chairmen run football clubs, usually because it's their money.

�

�

Edit - in England at least.� Bits of continental europe have much less of this (Germany, France, the Scando countries), and bits have it much worse than England - Italy, Greece.


It's difficult to generalise - but then you have far stronger boards there too, and far bigger management operations. The situation changes when you drop down the pyramid. In the premier league at least a decent majority of chairmen are independent, although of course they are appointed by the owner

anyway, that's a bit off topic. I have complete faith in these clever business men to run the club well and appoint the right people. They've just got to stay away from team affairs, we don't want amateur fantasy footballers
james dean2011-09-16 19:05:08

Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Complete faith?

Jeez, Doloras has "no faith", JD has "complete faith", doesn't anybody just go for "how the f**k would I know" any more?

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
I think as the kids say "haterz gonna hate"

there are 36000 seats in the stadium, just sit somewhere else!james dean2011-09-16 20:25:42

Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Michael Brown in the Herald talking up the prospect of the Fab Four firing the whole team and starting again. That is not helping me get any faith at all. He wouldn't be raising the question if he hadn't been dropped hints (although perhaps the Fab Four just want the players sweating a bit).

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
james dean wrote:
I think as the kids say "haterz gonna hate"

there are 36000 seats in the stadium, just sit somewhere else![/QUOTE]
 
[QUOTE=Frankie Mac]oh the green eyed monster has reared its ugly head.  Just because I am at the cutting edge of what is cool and hip, you feel you have to knock me down.
 
I think 3LW summed it up very well when they said "them haters gona hate, them callers gona call, them ballers gona ball".
 
Dis goes out 2 all da homies in da prejudicised world, ma 50 tweepies and Tupac - may have left the world brotha but u neva left ma dreams.  Swagga jagga.
 
Thief.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
Doloras wrote:
Michael Brown in the Herald talking up the prospect of the Fab Four firing the whole team and starting again. That is not helping me get any faith at all. He wouldn't be raising the question if he hadn't been dropped hints (although perhaps the Fab Four just want the players sweating a bit).


Phoenix players should be safe

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History
terminator_x wrote:
Complete faith?Jeez, Doloras has "no faith", JD has "complete faith", doesn't anybody just go for "how the f**k would I know" any more?



Meanwhile some of us are just "keeping the faith"

(although it would inadvisable to hang around public toilets in case you encounter a lurking TVNZ reporter)

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 14 years ago · edited about 5 years ago · History

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink Permalink

This topic is locked.