Which club got Nathan Burns into Asian Cup winning form? Tell me again how we are bad for the Socceroos?
because of arbitrary metrics.
Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 2)
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lightbox tweeted me "never say never" in response to a tweet about them picking up the A League.
As Royz said in another thread before all of this licence stuff happened, send them an email or other kinds of feedback as to why they should get the A league coverage.
Oh yea they responded to my email thanking me for the feedback and that they cant promise anything but they are looking at sports content and will look hard at the Nix.
Sometimes its just nice being heard, and if they managed to keep the Nix in the league they would have one very happy subscriber from me.
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What is still pissing me off about the whole thing is that as a club we are not in the financial crap of at least two Australians clubs yet Lowry & Gallop are making a big song and dance about us having to give more dosh. Sure things could be better, I acknowledge that but really, they need to sort out their own teams financial woes before worrying about us. Just give us the ten year licence to show we can do something long term...and get another Auckland side up and running, make it quite interesting and it gives Australian players another door in which to try and make a name for themselves. Thus having two opportunites instead of one such as South Sydney for example.
Well apparently its socceroos money that is paying for the A-League cap, i.e. out of the 40 million broadcast deal most of that is for the Socceroos while a smaller amount is for the A-League. So if that's the case then you can see why the FFA think that they are subsidising NZ football and want some contribution from the NZ stakeholders. That was mentioned by Ryans Rovers on twitter and as we all know here he's not prone to posting shark for no reason.
I'd like to know a bit more about that. The A-League is approx. 140 games per season. How many games do the Socceroos play each year? The ratings of those games must be astronomical if they can be seen as "subsidising" the A-League. I can see that it's possible though.
RR - do you have any more detail around the breakdown?
Aussies get pretty nationalistic when its an Aussie on the world stage. Lots of casual sports fans, who will never follow the A league, tune in to Socceroos World Cup games. Golden Goose.
Kotahitanga. We are one.
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If the A-League was independent it would be like the NBL and constnatly have money problems and be a shambles.
Holy shark! Imagine that, the A-League being a shambles. Thank God the FFA have saved us from that.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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Here's the Australian definition (and by it's Australian-ness is quite simple and direct...
Like I said though, clubs are running at losses all over the show, one is already in FFA hands, 2 others are on the verge of financial collapse, and yet the FFA think that we are a financial liability. Obviously they think that if they swap us with a South Sydney club then TV ratings will improve and they will be in a better bargaining position with Fox et al. But what damage to public reputation and therefore interest or support in the league which is caused by clubs folding or so on is potentially far more damaging to ratings than our existence is. FFA are up shark creek and they're lashing out at us because we are an easy target but I think getting rid of us will cost them money and good will in the long run. And I'm pretty sure I'd say that even if I wasn't a Nix fan.METRICS = $$$$$$$$
There are no other metrics that will motivate the FFA. That's it. They want (lots) more money.
FFA are backing themselves that if they cut us loose the only fallout would be from the NZ public and that it wouldn't harm them domestically. They obviously think they can either get some more money from us or have us jump first and clear the deck for a better replacement. Hence the bullshark aggro posturing and a lot of hot air.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
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If the A-League was independent it would be like the NBL and constnatly have money problems and be a shambles.
Holy shark! Imagine that, the A-League being a shambles. Thank God the FFA have saved us from that.
The Australian NBL is now in a good place, With a good TV deal and FTA coverage and is not ran but Basketball Australia.
FFA take note.
Mr Positive
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Here's the Australian definition (and by it's Australian-ness is quite simple and direct...
Like I said though, clubs are running at losses all over the show, one is already in FFA hands, 2 others are on the verge of financial collapse, and yet the FFA think that we are a financial liability. Obviously they think that if they swap us with a South Sydney club then TV ratings will improve and they will be in a better bargaining position with Fox et al. But what damage to public reputation and therefore interest or support in the league which is caused by clubs folding or so on is potentially far more damaging to ratings than our existence is. FFA are up shark creek and they're lashing out at us because we are an easy target but I think getting rid of us will cost them money and good will in the long run. And I'm pretty sure I'd say that even if I wasn't a Nix fan.METRICS = $$$$$$$$
There are no other metrics that will motivate the FFA. That's it. They want (lots) more money.
FFA are backing themselves that if they cut us loose the only fallout would be from the NZ public and that it wouldn't harm them domestically. They obviously think they can either get some more money from us or have us jump first and clear the deck for a better replacement. Hence the bullshark aggro posturing and a lot of hot air.
This. So much for a rich Dorklander willing to invest in a 2nd NZ franchise - who would now be mad enough?
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
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I think all this 4 year stuff is a ruse cooked up by Welnix and the FFA to shame Wellington into increasing cro Wd numbers. Just like the Petone stadium. Smoke and mirrors. Thrown in some media gaffs to make it seem realistic too.
It has the hand of Gareth Morgen in it and no mistake.
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I think all this 4 year stuff is a ruse cooked up by Welnix and the FFA to shame Wellington into increasing cro Wd numbers. Just like the Petone stadium. Smoke and mirrors. Thrown in some media gaffs to make it seem realistic too.
It has the hand of Gareth Morgen in it and no mistake.
Meee - ooow
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
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If the A-League was independent it would be like the NBL and constnatly have money problems and be a shambles.
Holy shark! Imagine that, the A-League being a shambles. Thank God the FFA have saved us from that.
The Australian NBL is now in a good place, With a good TV deal and FTA coverage and is not ran but Basketball Australia.
FFA take note.
The NBL has lost a chunk of teams, is owned by one of the teams participiating in it, and apparently pays to be on TV.
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I think all this 4 year stuff is a ruse cooked up by Welnix and the FFA to shame Wellington into increasing cro Wd numbers. Just like the Petone stadium. Smoke and mirrors. Thrown in some media gaffs to make it seem realistic too.
It has the hand of Gareth Morgen in it and no mistake.
Meee - ooow
christ you think I'm joking.
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Maybe a name change might work for the FFA. How about the WELLINGTON METRIX ?
#ffalignment
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
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Valeo
passive aggressive ....ness... around here.
Yakcal
Midfielder you only appear to turn up when you want to talk shark
This is what I posted I can see you guys are right… its passive aggressive and shark … I actually asked did I have the brief details right as I don’t live and breathe this story…
Apologise if I am not on top of all the comings and goings…
Is this the brief summary, Nix’s wanted a 10 year extension, FFA offered 4 years with caveats / qualification’s, centred around key KPI indexes need to be met by the end of the 4 years otherwise and the next extension will not be granted.
The key KPI’s are ratings, crouds, memberships, a new media deal and NZF getting more involved… and unspoken is much more media.
Then I added part of an article from Simon Hill about his views from the AFC … Hill is arguably the best Football writer around today ..
Anyway this won’t change anything I hope all goes well for your club and I am off make everyone happy and I can see now why with such aggressive passive posts as above.
Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei
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Not for the first time on these forums some people seem to be able to get away with exactly what they accuse others of doing. While I might not agree with what he posts at times midfielder has been a part of these forums from very early on and has always been supportive of us. These might be trying times for all but frankly it's shark how some seem to get away all the time by baiting others. Despite what some my try and post I'm bloody sure most on here only want the Phoenix to succeed.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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If the A-League was independent it would be like the NBL and constnatly have money problems and be a shambles.
Holy shark! Imagine that, the A-League being a shambles. Thank God the FFA have saved us from that.
The Australian NBL is now in a good place, With a good TV deal and FTA coverage and is not ran but Basketball Australia.
FFA take note.
The NBL has lost a chunk of teams, is owned by one of the teams participiating in it, and apparently pays to be on TV.
No your wrong, A new TV deal was done in Oct this year - Before that yes the owner was putting in $7 mil of his own money and part of that went into Foxtel to show the games and some from network 10.
There new TV deal with FOXTEL and the Nine network is worth $40 mil per season (over five years) plus on top of that there still negotiating TV rights to Asia/Euro and North America. So in the end after all the hardship they are finally in a good position. Independent of Basketball Australia.
Mr Positive
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There's a few reasons why I'm uncomfortable with NZF just writing a cheque to the FFA (or even Welnix) as a few people seem to be advocating:
1. NZF can't afford it. Forget all that BS about big money from the Mexico game. That's in reserves and is our only hope to have even a half-arsed international programme for the AWs. The truth is that without the 2010 World Cup winnings and the money from the Mexico game NZF would have been running big deficits for the past 5 years.
2. The policy rationale seems weak. I know the FFA will say "we're contributing to the development of NZ football" and it's probably true, but how exactly? And what's that actually worth? The youth development side of the Nix operation is one area where NZF can actually say they have helped, via participation in the ASB Prem and youth league. Also, the FFA's "A-League participation helps drive youth development" argument would be stronger if they hadn't radically scaled back their own National Youth League. If NZF were to put in $ would that give them a say in the running of the A-league? If not, why not? Too much of this feels like a shakedown rather than a genuine discussion about the value to all parties of having an NZ team in the A-League.
3. The A-League itself should be moving in the opposite direction, towards being independently run, rather than having any direct involvement, let alone funding, from national associations.
I think NZF's role should be more about facilitation between all the big players in this, including the FFA, OFC, broadcasters (current and potential), sponsors and government, both local and central. For example, if there really is a link between A-League participation and youth development/participation then Sport NZ should be way more involved in this than they seem to be.
But that's why I was really disappointed with NZF's press release today. Words like "continue to be in close dialogue" and "once we receive their proposals" are lacking the urgency and pro-activeness required from them.
In summary, I have some sympathy with NZF that they are essentially facing a shakedown from the FFA (which Welnix now appear to be complicit in, perhaps for no better reason than they are glad to have the spotlight shine somewhere else) but I do think NZF should be showing a lot more leadership.
And it's not about the money. Welnix have plenty of money, that's not the issue for them.
Normo's coming home
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Well... Lowy wants us to be called the New Zealand Phoenix.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/738...
Lowy can go shove it up his arse!
I'm an optimistic pessimist.
I'm positive things will go wrong.
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I hope it will be soon the end of wise pronouncements from Chairman Emeritus as he checks out of FFA and moves into a nursing home next week.
If a whole country engagement is needed, I would be happy with FFA fully funding the new A-League entrant, Auckland TrafficJam FC, just like they did with WSW, to get a "wider appeal".
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
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Will a team really gain support because they are rebranded? Did the Warriors support increase at all?
I know when I was listening to talk back radio immediately afterwards a guy rang and said that the Phoenix need two things, one is brand name players like - and then he said a whole bunch of names that I had either never heard of or have heard of but only because of news coverage, anyway they were Warriors players - and to change their colours because he'd never support a team in yellow and black.
Obviously the first point is a media created thing, because the Phoenix could get Del Piero in and most rugby folk would have only a loose understanding of what he is, furthermore most league stars were not stars and draw cards before they joined an NRL team so they are completely home grown and made stars by the media. If we had more media support we would have more stars.
And the second point, well those are old - probably rugby prejudices, if you're a football supporter would it really matter?
If WelNix are told that the Phoenix have to be called the NZ Nix so be it, but if they are told they have to be moved to Auckland then I'd imagine they would walk, the whole point of it is to keep the team in Wellington. In fact Rob said in his press release that they were looking to found an English Language school as part of their academy program in order to stop having all those resources in Auckland.
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Two words: Shirley Bright
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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If a whole country engagement is needed, I would be happy with FFA fully funding the new A-League entrant, Auckland TrafficJam FC, just like they did with WSW, to get a "wider appeal".
Thanks to retiring mayor Len Brown, we now have significantly better public transport than we used to. And be careful what you wish for.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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More precisely, no-one wants a travelling circus, and I don't think anyone sensible wants a "NZ Phoenix". However, such ideas would not be floating around if more Wellington fans were coming to the party.
If holy terror of losing our club means we get up to 15,000 regularly in the RoF and 5000+ memberships, then thank god for Lowy and Gallop scaring us out of, if you'll excuse the phrase, "squatting" on our fandom. When Nix management raised the "we need more crouds, bros" thing before, the reaction from fans was anger and resentment for "threatening us". Note, for example, how the Transfer thread is no longer packed with angst. Sometimes you really don't know what you've got until someone is suggesting that you don't have a right to it.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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The team will never average 15k, 15k for one off games, sure. The club is targeting 10k and that is all a market the size of Wellington can realistically support. Remember this is sans derbys, take out derbys and we fare a lot better in comparison to the rest of the league.
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Two words: Shirley Bright
also Metrics:
"Tinkler's business model of cheap season tickets got people in the gate but ultimately has left the club as financially unviable."
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Here's the Australian definition (and by it's Australian-ness is quite simple and direct...
Like I said though, clubs are running at losses all over the show, one is already in FFA hands, 2 others are on the verge of financial collapse, and yet the FFA think that we are a financial liability. METRICS = $$$$$$$$
There are no other metrics that will motivate the FFA. That's it. They want (lots) more money.
The FFA dont thinik we are a financial liability at all. In fact the complete opposite. Like you said several clubs have been or nearly are on the verge of going bankrupt but the FFA see a club who is financially fairly healthy like the Phoenix and they wanna squeeze as much out of them as they can.
On the plus side it definitely appears from what Lowey and Gallop is saying, that the FFA's tone towards the Phoenix is softening and like others have said if we have to rebrand to NZ Phoenix to keep the club alive for another 10 years then I am all for it. So what if only 50% of the games are played at Westpac. Who knows it may even encourage fans to travel a bit more to watch the Nix play..
Pro football is like nuclear warfare. There are no winners, only survivors. -- Frank Gifford
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The team will never average 15k, 15k for one off games, sure. The club is targeting 10k and that is all a market the size of Wellington can realistically support. Remember this is sans derbys, take out derbys and we fare a lot better in comparison to the rest of the league.
This. Also even though people hate the per capita statistic it is relevant to the fact that the Wellington public are doing better than anyone could realistically expect in terms of supporting the team and turning up to games. It shows the club has a good community engagement too.
If the raw numbers don't add up then what were they doing giving us a licence in the first place? You can't shift the goal posts so dramatically once the game has already started.
Allegedly
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The main problem with having more than 1 game a year in Auckland is that we don't have a half-decent stadium, unless you count that one in Albania which is miles from anywhere.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
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The other problem is that year on year the Auckland croud numbers are tanking because the novelty factor wears off. Have two a year and watch it do it even more.
There is no part of that model that stacks up. None.
Interesting point to consider - do SKY believe they have trouble getting people outside Wellington interested in the Phoenix because we are called Wellington? I can see how that might be possible...but I doubt that it is material although who knows
Normo's coming home
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The team will never average 15k, 15k for one off games, sure. The club is targeting 10k and that is all a market the size of Wellington can realistically support. Remember this is sans derbys, take out derbys and we fare a lot better in comparison to the rest of the league.
This. Also even though people hate the per capita statistic it is relevant to the fact that the Wellington public are doing better than anyone could realistically expect in terms of supporting the team and turning up to games. It shows the club has a good community engagement too.
If the raw numbers don't add up then what were they doing giving us a licence in the first place? You can't shift the goal posts so dramatically once the game has already started.
We play 13 games at home this season. If we play the same unmber of home games next season then I would be happy if 7 games were in Wellington, 2 in Auckland, 1 in Hamilton, 1 in Christchurch, 1 in Dunedin and then 1 at like Bay Park stadium in Tauranga etc. Like you said, 1 off games will attrach the highest croud numbers so why not bite the bullet and take the show on the road so to speak, wet the whole country's appetite for the Phoenix.. I know alot of people aren't gonna like this suggestion, but I really think it could work.
Pro football is like nuclear warfare. There are no winners, only survivors. -- Frank Gifford
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I'm all for elderly people playing their part in society but Frank Lowy is 85, and he looks at least 20 years older. He's 85 FFS.
Why is anyone taking any notice of this old tawt?
What is wrong with Australia? It's like they want to beat America in being the stupidest box of cock-monsters.
Kirk Douglas - amazing actor and has some great stories but would you cast him as a the new Han Solo??? Would you f*ck.
I don't even know this Lowry bloke but by looking at his pissy old meh face I reckon he has always been an old f*ckring. nobber.
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I'm all for elderly people playing their part in society but Frank Lowy is 85, and he looks at least 20 years older. He's 85 FFS.
Why is anyone taking any notice of this old tawt?
What is wrong with Australia? It's like they want to beat America in being the stupidest box of cock-monsters.
Kirk Douglas - amazing actor and has some great stories but would you cast him as a the new Han Solo??? Would you f*ck.
I don't even know this Lowry bloke but by looking at his pissy old meh face I reckon he has always been an old f*ckring. nobber.
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We play 13 games at home this season. If we play the same unmber of home games next season then I would be happy if 7 games were in Wellington, 2 in Auckland, 1 in Hamilton, 1 in Christchurch, 1 in Dunedin and then 1 at like Bay Park stadium in Tauranga etc. Like you said, 1 off games will attrach the highest croud numbers so why not bite the bullet and take the show on the road so to speak, wet the whole country's appetite for the Phoenix.. I know alot of people aren't gonna like this suggestion, but I really think it could work.
You know we've played in a number of those venues with embarassingly small crouds, right?
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We play 13 games at home this season. If we play the same unmber of home games next season then I would be happy if 7 games were in Wellington, 2 in Auckland, 1 in Hamilton, 1 in Christchurch, 1 in Dunedin and then 1 at like Bay Park stadium in Tauranga etc. Like you said, 1 off games will attrach the highest croud numbers so why not bite the bullet and take the show on the road so to speak, wet the whole country's appetite for the Phoenix.. I know alot of people aren't gonna like this suggestion, but I really think it could work.
You know we've played in a number of those venues with embarassingly small crouds, right?
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
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We play 13 games at home this season. If we play the same unmber of home games next season then I would be happy if 7 games were in Wellington, 2 in Auckland, 1 in Hamilton, 1 in Christchurch, 1 in Dunedin and then 1 at like Bay Park stadium in Tauranga etc. Like you said, 1 off games will attrach the highest croud numbers so why not bite the bullet and take the show on the road so to speak, wet the whole country's appetite for the Phoenix.. I know alot of people aren't gonna like this suggestion, but I really think it could work.
You know we've played in a number of those venues with embarassingly small crouds, right?
It's simple metrics innit? No other factors matter.
Allegedly
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