Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 2)

Steve Sumner comes to mind.

I agree that the above argument cannot be simply dismissed. But it does not flow directly into our discussion with FFA. It does however flow indirectly because it is linked with the issue of promoting The Nix, which may impact on broadcast deals, bums on seats and "metrix".. 

Just last night I listened to RNZ sports news interviewing Kosta on the eve of the game in Oman. It was good to hear and they gave him plenty of time despite the fact that I personally consider the result of this game irrelevant. I can attest that RNZ always comment on the AW games etc but not very much on the Nix games, except this morning which was an exception when they talked about the importance of the Adelaide game. In the past they would maybe say the result of the Nix game but would have no other pre- or post-game comments. They would also give lengthy coverage of the EPL game results and interviews.

This is an example of the missing links in the engagement with the media. A lot of people listen to RNZ (contrary to what some say about it being elitist). So maybe there is room for NZF to channel the media engagement, that the likes of RNZ have for the AWs, into an engagement with the Nix, on the grounds that this is where the AW strength comes from (or at least used to come from and may again). it would not cost them much, but they might have to get off their butt and accept that they are actually in the same boat as the Nix, ultimately.

RNZ is an interesting one.  I didn't realise the coverage morning report had until i walked in the office the other day and a thrid of the people there complained that their morning was ruined by hearing me on the radio.

All Whites v Wellington Phoenix v ACFC Holiday Special Tri-series ... coming to you some time this summer.

"Ringleader"

Yeah.  We have embraced that.

Understand some of the things your saying NP but also think your position with the Phoenix and the Welnix guys is similar to what many in football think. Sorry but until that attitude changes and people can accept that the situition we have here in NZ is unique and you can't compare it to anything else. Until then I just don't see how they can work together.

Sounds like YF is going all RBB.

Are we turning into grubs?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/picture/2015/nov/...

Sports participation and organisational patterns are changing. Old established sport delivery models are breaking down. Many codes are diversifying what they deliver. The participants are becoming more selective. Many sports are developing new models for what they do and how they do it. The growth of multi-sport centres, sports hubs, multi-code clubs etc are all signs that many sports and their clubs/organisations are realising they have to customise and adapt what they do into more sustainable and successful models. This can involve leaving the 'traditional ways of doing things' behind. Each case is unique from individual sports clubs; to regions; to codes; to countries. New Zealand's situation is particularly unique for football. 

If all key participants can get some alignment and agreement about what they want to achieve then a process could begin to develop a model that works for NZ and its unique situation for football. That does involve setting politics aside and concentrating first on what is important for football, what they really want. That isn't easy as people are not logical. So it can be a long process and some will fight it and some will be left behind. But it can work. The old saying goes if you do what you've always done you'll get what you've always got. If its not working now then carrying on the same way is just going to be a downhill slide. 

To my mind it is totally possible that NZ could develop its own integrated model for football participation and performance. But its very plain that it would require a teamwork approach. Of course the Phoenix and NZ Football, and Regional Federations and Clubs and Schools and Academies should be actively working out how they can all fit together to best effect. Ideally this would be around some sort of shared strategy and structure. If things carry on as they are now then its not going to go anywhere.

Just a point of order here. I thought number of Phoenix players in U17 squad was 4: mcgarry, rogerson, bell, singh. Ole also had 4 (parker-price, mccowatt, mohammadi, jones). Don't know where this 7 nix players is from, but i don't think its correct

Could be wrong I think I read it on the five years and out blog.

They could be counting NIX Auckland Academy players not just Wgtn

As per ultimate a-league website, our average croud is now 7th in the league.

1. Melbourne Victory: 32,576
2. Sydney FC : 23,482
3. Western Sydney Wanderers: 14,158
4. Brisbane Roar: 12,589
5. Adelaide United: 12,384
6. Newcastle Jets: 12,382
7. Wellington Phoenix: 8,671
8. Central Coast Mariners: 8,188
9. Perth Glory: 7,937
10. Melbourne City: 7,842

Total:13,591

Seems to me the real problem is Melbourne city.... # Metrics

hows this for a thought. could we get a 5 figure average croud this year? if we get bumper crouds at the one off auckland and christchurch games then it could be plausible.

If we keep the winning then hopefully a good number of the casuals get the Fever.

Yeah. No... you won't get massive crouds at NHS and Christchurch.  5 figures yes but to up the average that much you would need close to 20k.

What we do need is the people there last night back next time we are home here.

(that's what I was trying to say)

We couldn't havehad a better game for all those extra casual punters there last night. If that game doesn't bring people back for mor then I don't know what will. Unfortunately there is a bit of a break until our next home game but hopefully that doesn't make a lot of difference. If anything it might just whet the appetite - people who didn't go last night  might feel they missed out and will be extra keen for the next one.( I had a few workmates who couldn't make it last night but were interested so I think they'll be even more keen now)

I am praying those same fans come back for another visit on the 19th of December. Our pre Christmas game is always a lot of fun amongst the fans.

And a cash injection for Tawa AFC

What we also need are the supporters that have not been going for a couple of years.

I purchased tickets to last night's game for my parents. Mum has just text to say they enjoyed and have just bought tickets to the next home game. Hopefully we see a lot of this happening.

Mum also noted "oh, that'll be 12 Pubs too right?".  Not so keen on them attending that. They don't need to witness that.

I suppose it's pointless complaining about it but the blatant double standards of certain sections of the Oz media really boggles the mind. Mid week a roundtable of Fox Sports football sages sat around shaking their heads and finger wagging about the underwhelming crouds we have been getting, as if this is the sole reason for FFA's denial of a 10 year license (it's not and they know it). Tut tut, they said, the Nix are letting the competition down; if they want to play with the big boys they need to pull up their socks and get better crouds - and let's say they do get a good croud against Adelaide, so what, it means nothing because even Gold Coast and Nth Qld managed to get the occasional good one.

Meanwhile Melbourne City continues to get poor crouds. Last night it was around 7800 and probably 500 or more of those were WSW fans. This despite all the advantages of financial backing, huge population base to draw on and big media profile, not to mention a brand of football that might have brought them mixed results so far but has made for some of the most exciting games this season. Was that poor attendance referred to at all last night in the Fox Sports studio? Was the club taken to task for its meagre metrics? No of course not. Three derbys a season and you are forgiven all sins.

Speaking of derbies and metrics, the croud for the Newcastle/CCM doesn't exactly look huge on the telly at the moment....

We are from NZ. They aren't. That is the only reason.

 Newcastle have a horrible away kit. The worst

Without getting into paranoia territory, I think what we are seeing with the "FFA vs The Nix" is a hardnose business tactic by FFA falling on a fertile ground of a changed Australian psyche. Changed from what it used to be just 10 years ago - it is now clearly more insular, xenophobic, and parochial.

Those over in the West Island who have a sympathetic view towards the Nix probably do so despite us being a club in NZ, and like us because we are a good club adding value to the football "experience" in HAL. Those who are keen to see us go do so despite us being a stable and well-run club, and would like us to go because we are a club in NZ.

Not an Away kit. A special Gold kit which they will wear for 3 matches throughout the year which has been devised to appease the fans who want to move away from Red and Blue and go back to Gold as their kit colour

I think if I was Welnix I would be pointing out that the Central Coast play the same amount of "Derbies" as the Wandertards, Smurfs and Planes, and traveling supporter base for each of these occasions would be quite strong meaning that their average croud would be inflated because of this. 

It just highlights how hypocritical the "metrics" that have been placed on us and nobody else actually are

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2015/11/13/bad...

A fantastically accurate article from Les Murray...

A well thought out article

But obviously it is because we are kiwis and this isn't about the league at all - it's about Australian football. It shows exactly why the A League should be independently run.

I do understand and respect the position that the A League's primary purpose is to help the growth and development of Australian football, and I can see that at a superficial level we contribute less to that goal than other clubs for obvious reasons. Where the reasoning falls down for me is that we are somehow a drain or impediment on the the growth and development of Australian football. Even at the moment we have 4 young Aussies in our squad (Danoskos, Fox, Powell, Italiano). 

But at a more strategic level, if the FFA want the A League to be stable, sustainable, and internationally  respected, and to be produce high quality football so that Aussie players can be better prepared for European leagues or international games, then they need to think about the long term viability of the competition. It needs more clubs so it doesn't get stale. It needs tradition and a sense of history so that there's connection to local communities and the wider public. In this context the Phoenix should actually be seen as vital to the future of the A League, and by extension to the growth and development of Australian football. Here's why I think that:

• We are a stable club with owners with long term plans - give us a license and you won't have to worry about us folding or anything.
• We have a history in the league and an identity and traditions, which help add character and variety to the games. 
• More clubs will eventually mean that the Australian talent pool is more thinly spread, which may adversely impact the overall quality of the competition. We provide a way to have an extra team in the competition which provides variety into the fixture list without diluting that talent pool too much. 
• With Wellington in the competition there's a potential for future expansion into other NZ centres - Auckland and Christchurch for instance. This might still be a decade away or more, but if the FFA want promotion/relegation, or even a single tier league with 18 or 20 teams eventually, those could be vital markets. Long term expansion with an eye to more derbies is what the FFA wants, and if derbies also draw more neutral viewers because of the better atmosphere then kiwi derbies might rate more highly on Aussie tv too.
• The shabby treatment of the Nix will put off smart and sensible investors who might be looking at other clubs. Sure, as a kiwi team we're an outlier, but who's to say the FFA won't just change the goalposts on another club if it suits whatever their current agenda is? THe worse they treat us the less appealing they are to future owners.

Look at the MLS - it's growing and expanding. It's been around long enough to have traditions and history now. There are enough clubs with their own identities and personality that there's a lot of variety in the matches. There are 3 Canadian teams in the MLS and that isn't viewed as a negative for American football development (even though there's much more chance that Canada will play the US in a meaningful game than there is that New Zealand will play Australia. Even across confederations there's technically only a 1/3rd chance each cycle that we will play an AFC team for a WC place - so on average once every 12 years). Yes, North America is much bigger market operating in a different environment, but it does show that a well managed league can develop and grow in a market already saturated with other sports. 

The FFA are just after a short-sighted money grab and a way to deflect from their own poor management. It's not at all surprising but it is fudgeing frustrating.

I dont agree about the Marquees at all.  Roly and Aaron Moy are currently playing better than the majority of so called "Marquee" players of the past. And certainly our Paul Ifill was and still is a legend for our club,  I would rather have him than a washed up ADP

One swallow does not make an orgy

Harsh on Del Piero. I only really watched his first season here but boy he was quality. Goals out of nothing, consistently. 

Completely agree and I think in general the A League clubs have wised up that you don't need mega super stars to win the League and they are a drain on finances. They might raise attendance/increase tv viewers briefly but long term is got to be more sustainable to grow your own talent.