Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

Unfortunately that is not going to happen.

They probably want NRL money, not taking into consideration the years that sky only showed the Warriors game on Sky 1 (so not even a sports channel) while the fan base and love for the team and sport grew.  

Just sell Sky the Phoenix matches for a penny and stream the rest, I would have happily paid for a good streaming service or the A League, still will if the Nix get 10.

Really? I'd be totally relieved. I really hope it is a bluff, otherwise a major part of my life is ruined. If all that it takes is for NZF to throw money at the problem for it to go away, that stinks on ice but I'll cop the extra $50 on my club subs or whatever.

I'd be relieved for the same reason.

But I can be relieved and angry at the same time. 

If nix do finish and all ill have to look forward to is 3 all whites games a year plus NZF fudgeing up time and time again, I might just end it all.

Tony Smith is giving us a serve on Stuff. Some of it is good but a lot of inaccuracies imo. More "positive Media coverage" from our own media. NOT.

Too dark bro.

Plus you get in on some central League action.  Wairarapa United is the greatest team ever after all (I lie so I don't cry from the pain of losing my Nix)

Have just read it and agreed. Think before you ink. Another muppet 

How great would it be if we turn around and spank Victory this weekend?

I do hope the boys rise up and play out of their skins.  I feel sorry for Sarpong, who just started his contract with us.  Cant feel to exciting being unsire where he will be enxt year.

Agree that it's tough on Sarpong (and others with longer contracts) but I would have thought that all players in such a position would have no alternative but to play as well as possible anyway for the sake of their ongoing careers, let alone the hopefully backs to the wall mentality that they will bring to it as well?

There professionals, so it will be business as usual, although it will be in back of the minds for some. Hope we will spank Melbourne. The way we are playing I am sure we will. 

I think most of us - me included - could handle this if the club were in serious finacial doo doo and not performing in any shape or form. But the club are. they have a financial plan for 10 years, they have a set up of administration, they have the players, the coaches and various support groups in position. They have a community established as a base and are trying to enlargen it. Sure that crappy stadium is an eyesore when our crouds are not that good but this is not the Nix's fault.

this really is gutting me on my days off. i had such an awesome time last saturday night at the game. Apologies for ranting so much on this thread. 

Be cool if the Victory fans had the nix banner in our colours up - "10 more years".

If that happened then Victory would get infinite respect from me forever....except when we play them at home, then I would applaud them, then chant against them.

@darkhorse - yea I don't doubt they will be as professional as possible, but it would be cool if this just rallied them enough to give them a hiding.

Oh yea they will play to win, for the reason you stated, for their careers.  But Sarpong has just moved here from quite a way away, at least Rolly had a full year here before this drama fueled shirt storm.  Sarpongs been here a couple of months and trying to settle, that's why I feel the most for him and his family right now.

Screw just spanking Victory, I hope this gives us the motivation to spank everyone and win the damn thing. 

Tony Smith also said in his article for Wellington to stand up and support the team (bums on seats) well where were the bums on seats when we talk games to Auckland!!! exactly! God Bless YF and Phoenix

I do find it very disappointing that more from Wellington Football fraternity do not actively support the Phoenix. I have had discussions with Club  Administrators who dismiss the Phoenix  and that includes those from clubs that have hosted the Phoenix for pre season games, promotions etc.

In fact one club held their AGM at the same time as a Phoenix home game.

The croud number thing is bollocks. Someone in the league has to have the lowest number. Obviously at the moment that's us, but we have mitigating factors. If the owners are confident they can build sustainable crouds then let them try -after all, its their money. In absolute terms, our long weekend croud was higher than average attendance in a lot of top level football competitions around the globe including some from South America (Chile, Paraguay, Peru, Venezuela, Ecuador) and Europe (Romania, Czech republic, Serbia, Hungary) and better than some top countries' second tier averages ( Italy, Brazil) In that context, are our crouds bad in an absolute sense? I don't think so at all. Having the lowest croud figures isn't the same as having poor croud figures.

   EDIT: wrote something dumb like Tony Smith

At least the Fox commentators will have something to talk about for 90 minutes instead of actually calling the action on the field.

:(

I think I could be watching this one in silence, else I could well smash the TV screen

Phoenix City broadcasting an alternate commentary for this game. Good for you!

My understanding is that this has nothing to do with the AFC.

If we don't fit with the FFA's long-term strategy then it obviously doesn't include expansion, or being in New Zealand, or even attempting to market their competition in NZ or Oceania.

I just can't get my head around the expansion angle at all. If you want to expand you don't kick a team out even if they aren't rating that well. They are still worth more to you in terms of the extra games you generate in your schedule than if you replace them with a higher rating team - especially when you can bring the new team(s) in anyway! 11 teams will always be better than 10 and 12 will always be better than 11 as long as those teams aren't actually costing you money. It also means that as your league hopefully grows in interest, excitement etc you are working off a larger base and the potential ratings increase is much bigger (12 teams x a 10% increase in ratings beats 10 teams x a 10% increase in ratings every time).

It makes so little sense that it actually makes me hopeful this is just some serious businessman brinkmanship bullshark.

Another thought - the deal just done with Sky in NZ to screen approx. 30 ASBP games shows that Sky are now much more open to new content, and football content specifically. In that context surely they are not going to just let the Nix die. They can kiss goodbye to my SkySport subscription if they do. Not out of spite but simply because it won't be worth it.

In fact, I would go so far to ask if Sky would continue to screen ASBP games if there was no Nix? Would it still be viable if they lost a solid percentage of their football loving subscribers? This is an extremely complicated ecosystem with lots of parties dependent to some degree on each other and the potential for fallout much wider than just having no Nix. NZF, Sky and even the OFC all need to be heavily involved with Welnix and the FFA in sorting this out, and also prepared to put their very best offers on the table.

Couldnt have come at a better time *cough* if it works *cough*

I'm not sure there is actually anything to sort out. FFA obviously don't want a NZ side in their competition and that is completely at odds with the Australian organisations that govern their rugby league and basketball elite competitions. Somehow in there is this unwavering belief that they are actually giving us money to compete in their league and they don't like it. They think they would be better off with no Nix and replace them with a local side and give that money to them instead. I don't know how true that actually is on just financial grounds. but we all agree [except FFA] that there are so many different dynamics in being part of a league and you need to take into account things like the number of teams  participating, the quality that they provide, the additional markets it opens up etc. I know that some people have said that NZ and its 4.5m people offer nothing to sponsors etc but that is plainly rubbish. It offers them access to a 4.5m people market. With no Nix, that market disappears and they won't recover that with a bloody team in Cronulla will they? The Nathan Burns situations shouldn't be sniffed at either, along with the likes of Jade North and others that we gave a gig to when others wouldn't or couldn't. Starting to rant and preach to the converted I know, but the stupidity of this is so fudgeing frustrating.

We are all preaching to the converted here but we all need to vent.

Ive only been a Football fan for 5 years and a season pass holder for 3 but this has twisted my panties something wicked, I love my Nix and have stood up for the A League in many a drunk argument.  If we dont get 10 the only change will be that second aprt.

The more I think about this (which is a lot - I'm not being very productive at work today) the more I think that these Cronulla investors have approached the FFA wanting to set up a team. The FFA don't want to wait to the next TV deal to introduce them but can't afford to give them the salary cap money before then because its already being split 10 ways. Their solution is to force the Nix out so they can bring in the new guys. Presumably because they think they'll significantly increase TV ratings and consequently generate more cash from the next TV deal. Put simply, the FFA would rather have 3 Sydney teams next year than keep the Nix around.

That makes two of us

The Cronulla Riot will also be paying $Xmil for a licence.

That kinda thing gives them wood.

My thoughts exactly. The FFA (with Fox) are wetting themselves over having an extra 6 Sydney derbies asap. We're the fall guys.

I disagree with the "honourable" idea of walking and not playing out the licence. I know it is tough to play on, but it is also the right thing to do.

Otherwise the story will be interpreted to their (FFA) liking. I can already hear Bozza and others nodding in agreement as Damian de Bohun says:  "Welnix suddenly handed in the licence, maybe they had troubles, whatever, it was their decision, we had no choice but to quickly assemble a back-up team from Cronulla; we will of course now have to prop this new lot up as there are no supporters yet but that's what we have to do as the bloody Nix decided to pull the plug on us, and we were so generous with our 4-year extension offer".

Do you think they watched that game on Saturday?  Fudgeing horrid.  That 6 more times a season?

You also have to wonder just how thick they are if they think adding another team in a market will increase TV audiences.  The chances are very good that people who will watch the A-League already watch the A-League.  You might get a couple of thousand more bums on seats but the rest of them they will cannibalise from WSW and Sydney FC, places where if they are losing struggle to beat our crouds in a city the size of this whole country.

The TV audience for the massively over-hyped derby was down, concerningly so on Saturday night.  Now part of that will be people not able to face dire anti-football but the other part is that 3 'zOMG Ultraz darbeeee Rivalries' is already over-saturation.

They are working hard on a two city league and just have no feel for what the clubs and the people who support the league want.  #FFAOut

I have a feeling this is absolutely the key dynamic behind this. I think the FFA have been nervous about the commercial potential and value of the Phoenix for a wee while, but were reluctant to make a big call since a 10-team competition is better than a 9-team competition. The fact that this is happening right now suggests to me that the FFA feel confident they will have a viable replacement team for the next season.

I'm getting a bit sick of the misrepresentations around croud performance. How about some facts using annual average croud attendances vs catchment populations. Who is really pulling their weight with crouds?

These stats estimate the average croud members per 1000 population for the different clubs(including the defunct ones). There are also some notes which indicate where away-fan numbers would be boosting particular club's attendance levels as well. Given the lack of away fan attendance in Wellington the fact that the Phoenix pulls 22 people per 1000 population is impressive - especially when it is clear that it has the 3rd highest level of croud-pulling performance (in population-relativity terms). Or its second if we leave out what the defunct North Queensland Fury achieved.

If Sydney FC  and WSW were pulling 22 croud members/1000 population then they would have to be getting average crouds of 106,784. The Melbourne teams would need to be getting 97,077.  These clubs may have bigger gross numbers due to population geography but in relative terms they're not performing well at all in croud-pulling terms. In fact Melbourne City do worse that the NZ Knights!

So those people saying the Phoenix aren't pulling crouds should think again. We're more than pulling our weight for the league in that respect in the league. CCM is by far the most effective club, with Wellington second (since North Queensland Fury are no more....). 

So those slagging the club off on croud number performance - think again!