Wellington Phoenix Men

Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

4003 replies · 795,143 views
over 10 years ago

Junior82 wrote:

Yakcall wrote:

Royz wrote:

Our membership numbers are still at the 3600 mark, You would think with all this publicity 300 people would have come to the table and made it 4k by now?. Doomed :(

Actually I was wondering that, the membership number hasn't been changed since the FFA announcement on Monday, so I assume it isn't a 'live' meter and will be updated. I'm very interested in how many we have sold over the last few days.

"Our membership base has grown 27% in the last three years to our highest ever membership base of 4,185 last season. However, we’re still the smallest club in League for memberships - around 1,000 behind the next lowest Club."


Email from the club just now.

They still didn't say how many members we have this year or at this point of time.

Mr Positive

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

valeo wrote:

The way it's worded seems to say we will definitely get the 4 year license extension if we want it. From what Gallop has said, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Gallop said, did he not, that if we want the 4 years, they'll pass it on to FIFA/AFC/OFC/NZF for the requisite waivers. Since I can't see any of them denying the waivers (leaving aside conspiracy theories about AFC), I think that means that they realise that they can't stop us taking 4 years if we want it.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

valeo wrote:

Dome just sent out an email.

In all this, there has been some confusing messages. Here are some facts which sometimes have been lost in the whole discussion and furore!

1. The Phoenix has a licence until 2020 should we wish to take it up and the owners think the Club has the backing of the fans

2. All of the other A-League owners want us in the League

3. The Phoenix has the best ownership model and governance structure of any Club in the A-League

4. Our youth development and Academy programme is significantly ahead of our Australian colleagues

The first point seems...debatable? Anyone else confused by that one?

I'm sure Dome would have consulted the lawyers on it and not have said it otherwise. Think it is like thos +1 contracts we've got with players



Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

valeo wrote:

Dome just sent out an email.

In all this, there has been some confusing messages. Here are some facts which sometimes have been lost in the whole discussion and furore!

1. The Phoenix has a licence until 2020 should we wish to take it up and the owners think the Club has the backing of the fans

2. All of the other A-League owners want us in the League

3. The Phoenix has the best ownership model and governance structure of any Club in the A-League

4. Our youth development and Academy programme is significantly ahead of our Australian colleagues

The first point seems...debatable? Anyone else confused by that one?

The statement "The Phoenix has a licence until 2020 should we wish to take it up and the owners think the Club has the backing of the fans" is a direct challenge to fans to turn up for the game on 13 November. Pure and simple.

In the past people have got really annoyed about being issued these kind of ultimatums but I think the threat is real enough this time that we can only say "fair enough".

We all need to drag as many people along on 13 Nov as we can. No ifs, buts or excuses.

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago · edited over 10 years ago · History

terminator_x wrote:

valeo wrote:

Dome just sent out an email.

In all this, there has been some confusing messages. Here are some facts which sometimes have been lost in the whole discussion and furore!

1. The Phoenix has a licence until 2020 should we wish to take it up and the owners think the Club has the backing of the fans

2. All of the other A-League owners want us in the League

3. The Phoenix has the best ownership model and governance structure of any Club in the A-League

4. Our youth development and Academy programme is significantly ahead of our Australian colleagues

The first point seems...debatable? Anyone else confused by that one?

The statement "The Phoenix has a licence until 2020 should we wish to take it up and the owners think the Club has the backing of the fans" is a direct challenge to fans to turn up for the game on 13 November. Pure and simple.

In the past people have got really annoyed about being issued these kind of ultimatums but I think the threat is real enough this time that we can only say "fair enough".

We all need to drag as many people along on 13 Nov as we can. No ifs, buts or excuses.

Yep, Dome obviously knew the directives from the FFA before this - hence the somewhat desperate comments in the media in the past. Justified, I'd say.

a.haak

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Isn't the problem  though that they offered the four years  but there is nothing beyond that. Sorry if I have missed something  but I'm trying to do some work for the week at least.


GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

ballane wrote:

Isn't the problem  though that they offered the four years  but there is nothing beyond that.

There is nothing beyond that yet. They don't say "4 years and you're out", although that's how most are reading it. The optimists read it as "4 years and you're out unless you really impress us memberships/crouds/ratings-wide".


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

valeo wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

In the past people have got really annoyed about being issued these kind of ultimatums but I think the threat is real enough this time that we can only say "fair enough".

We all need to drag as many people along on 13 Nov as we can. No ifs, buts or excuses.

Yep, Dome obviously knew the directives from the FFA before this - hence the somewhat desperate comments in the media in the past. Justified, I'd say.

I really think a lot of people owe Welnix an apology for whining about previous "turn up or we'll have to do something stupid to get crouds/ratings, like going to Auckland more" statements. Obviously we didn't realise that those arseholes at FFA really were getting tetchy.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

So, imagine if Welnix moved us to the Hutt Rec for all our home games next season. Would that improve things?


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Sadly probably not, because people in Wellington are too lazy to travel 15-20mins to Lower Hutt. 


Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

It would look better on TV and the atmosphere would be better as you're not staring at 10,000 bright yellow empty seats on the other side of the pitch....?

Adelaide's resident Nix supporter
Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

It would look better on TV and the atmosphere would be better as you're not staring at 10,000 bright yellow empty seats on the other side of the pitch....?

This is half our issue; and no easy solution.

a.haak

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Sadly probably not, because people in Wellington are too lazy to travel 15-20mins to Lower Hutt. 

While mocking us JAFAs for not being willing to go all the way to the stadium in Albania... BTW, do we have a home game on the weekend of Jan 16, when I'll be in Welly?


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

paulm wrote:

Mainland FC wrote:

My whole work week seems to have been blighted by this nightmare.

Hear hear.

The FFA have directly affected our economy this week. 

Not really because according to the FFA nobody cares about the Phoenix

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

valeo wrote:

It would look better on TV and the atmosphere would be better as you're not staring at 10,000 bright yellow empty seats on the other side of the pitch....?

This is half our issue; and no easy solution.

To think our club might get shelved because something looks bad on TV really fudges me off. 

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Hard News wrote:

valeo wrote:

4. Our youth development and Academy programme is significantly ahead of our Australian colleagues[/quote]

On this subject:

http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/

Who is this Shirley Bright? She is lobbing grenade after grenade into FFA headquarters at the moment. It's like watching Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

Seriously, if you have not read the three blog posts she has written this week at http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/ you are missing out.

Top quality stuff.

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Doloras wrote:

(-----) They don't say "4 years and you're out", although that's how most are reading it. The optimists read it as "4 years and you're out unless you really impress us memberships/crouds/ratings-wide".

I am more inclined to think that FFA is waiting for Welnix to blink first and walk at the end of the season. That is why they do not sound encouraging about a 4-year extension being certain, even if OFC/AFC/FIFA approve it at their end. Once we apply for a 4 year licence they might have to make an effort to review it while they might have already made promises for next season to the SS  lot.

I personally prefer 4 years to 0 years.  And a lot of stuff may happen in four years, including external joint ventures or backers (West Ham, anyone?)

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Sadly probably not, because people in Wellington are too lazy to travel 15-20mins to Lower Hutt. 

Put a roof over it and I'd travel 500 miles and 500 more.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

Hard News wrote:

valeo wrote:

4. Our youth development and Academy programme is significantly ahead of our Australian colleagues[/quote]

On this subject:

http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/

Who is this Shirley Bright? She is lobbing grenade after grenade into FFA headquarters at the moment. It's like watching Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

Seriously, if you have not read the three blog posts she has written this week at http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/ you are missing out.

Top quality stuff.

It is a nom-de-plume of someone with brains (Shirley Bright = She'll Be Right)

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

Hard News wrote:

valeo wrote:

4. Our youth development and Academy programme is significantly ahead of our Australian colleagues[/quote]

On this subject:

http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/

Who is this Shirley Bright? She is lobbing grenade after grenade into FFA headquarters at the moment. It's like watching Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

Seriously, if you have not read the three blog posts she has written this week at http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/ you are missing out.

Top quality stuff.

See her blogger profile... FFA cynic

I'm an optimistic pessimist. 
I'm positive things will go wrong.
Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

valeo wrote:

It would look better on TV and the atmosphere would be better as you're not staring at 10,000 bright yellow empty seats on the other side of the pitch....?

This is half our issue; and no easy solution.

I ain't even joking...

It does look shark and I know they can't afford to replace the seats for such an apparently minor problem but fix it by applying grey or black transfers to the back of the seats (even every 2nd seat would do). They could even carry advertising or stadium info.

The grey/black thing they have going on in Dunedin works really well and is deliberately gradiated to trick the eye. We need similar voodoo here in Wellington.

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Mainland FC wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

Hard News wrote:

valeo wrote:

4. Our youth development and Academy programme is significantly ahead of our Australian colleagues[/quote]

On this subject:

http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/

Who is this Shirley Bright? She is lobbing grenade after grenade into FFA headquarters at the moment. It's like watching Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

Seriously, if you have not read the three blog posts she has written this week at http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/ you are missing out.

Top quality stuff.

It is a nom-de-plume of someone with brains (Shirley Bright = She'll Be Right)

No doubt it's a nom-de-plume, but would love to know who it is. The writing is just too good and too informed - could actually be someone high profile.

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Watching the givealittle page go up and up is the most fun i've had all week.

a.haak

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

It's fantastic - Journos should be using this in their mainstream articles.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Tweet it to every journo you are following.

a.haak

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago · edited over 10 years ago · History

Media release from FFA: http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/article/ffa-chairmans-statement-on-future-of-hyundai-a-league/vu8mjj1f8u1k1uvs67fr9drfk

The Chairman of FFA, Mr Frank Lowy AC, said today he felt compelled to issue the following statement given the ill-informed and inaccurate statements about the future of the Hyundai A-League being made by various parties.

Mr Lowy said:

“In April this year, I attended a meeting of Hyundai A-League Chairmen and explained to them the long-term strategy regarding Wellington Phoenix.

“Since that time I have not heard a peep from anybody except for ongoing discussions with Phoenix.

“Earlier this week I had a telephone conversation with Sydney FC Chairman Scott Barlow and advised him that no decision has been made about replacing Phoenix should that club no longer be part of the A-League.

“I explained to him that it was obvious that if Phoenix was to leave FFA would need to replace that team with another to maintain the 10-club A-League which we are required to do under our broadcast agreement. In other words, it would not be an extension of the A-League, but a continuation of the 10-club competition.

“As is stands, Phoenix has four years to demonstrate that they are an asset to the competition and not a liability instead of simply asking for a 10-year extension to their licence.

“Ultimately, if Phoenix is not part of the A-League then FFA is obliged to explore options to maintain a 10-club competition.

“Clearly, a new team in south Sydney is one of those options. Discussions have also taken place about the potential for a new team in Wollongong. Even a new team in Victoria, Canberra or Queensland can’t be completely ruled out at this stage.

“I advised Scott that any future decision will be based on facts and figures and not emotion and asked him to provide FFA with a carefully considered submission about his club’s position. I also advised him that that FFA would consult with his club, or any other club, affected by any future proposals.

“This is why there is no point in conducting an uninformed public debate, which simply creates confusion and unnecessary anxiety. I explained this to Scott directly which is why I am disappointed he has chosen to make an emotive public issue about it at this stage.

“And my advice to Graham Arnold is to focus on making Sydney FC a champion team instead of entering a debate he knows nothing about.

“When all the facts are known FFA will make a decision based on rational judgments and consultation with the clubs affected about what is good for the game.

“Meanwhile, Sydney FC should prepare its factual submission and Phoenix should concentrate on the task ahead.”

-ends-

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

making the Phoenix out to be the bad guys who will ditch the league and make it a 9 team competition. Piss off. 


Allegedly

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Nasty defensive nonsense; however, this shows that they will give us the 4 years to prove ourselves. They're not going to "lose" our licence extension request after saying that.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

As mentioned before, it's not the FFA's decision that matters, it's Welnix's decision of whether they want to bother with the 4 year only guarantee...

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

... and Domey's letter to the fans today seems to show that they're leaning towards it? I doubt they'll make a final decision until they've seen whether crouds and/or ratings improve, though. Nowhere have I seen whether there's a deadline on accepting the 4 years.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Junior82 wrote:

It's fantastic - Journos should be using this in their mainstream articles.

God is in the details - read her/his label tags for additional insights.

Kotahitanga. We are one.

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

 

"Make no mistake, there are powerful forces at work nudging Lowy junior towards the role.

Sooner rather than later he'll become the new head of the Westfield empire, which makes his combination of corporate power and football passion just as persuasive as that of his father."



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/frank-lowys-successor-at-ffa-likely-to-be-his-son-20141218-12a3qk.html#ixzz3q1OiZw4k
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

HIT THE LOWY WHERE IT HURTS, THE NIX BOYCOTT WESTFIELD.....And reading this stuff, jesus it feels like Kim Jong il is dieing and Kim Jong Un must be cemented as successor......

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

Doloras wrote:

... and Domey's letter to the fans today seems to show that they're leaning towards it? I doubt they'll make a final decision until they've seen whether crouds and/or ratings improve, though. Nowhere have I seen whether there's a deadline on accepting the 4 years.

We're a bit fudgeed if it's not done by the end of the year as all our players will probably be able to start recieving interest from other clubs.
You know we belong together...

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

terminator_x wrote:

Hard News wrote:

valeo wrote:

4. Our youth development and Academy programme is significantly ahead of our Australian colleagues[/quote]

On this subject:

http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/

Who is this Shirley Bright? She is lobbing grenade after grenade into FFA headquarters at the moment. It's like watching Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

Seriously, if you have not read the three blog posts she has written this week at http://fiveyearstops.blogspot.com.au/ you are missing out.

Top quality stuff.

She deserves a 'Wanna Talk Football T-Shirt'

Permalink Permalink
over 10 years ago

james dean wrote:

Gordinho wrote:

Frankie Mac wrote:

My views on this is that it is pointless looking at % of population as it is in no way relevant. Bottom line, the crouds have not been good enough. The issue is the general malaise with the general NZ public for attending sports events, whereas if all the planets are not aligned they are not going to attend. All I see on here are excuses - "evening games mean that I cannot take the kids", "the weather wasn't great", "Farmers had a 30% off sale". To me, none of these stack up. Let little Tarquin and Tabatha stay up past their usual bedtime and be a bit tired and grumpy at school on Monday morning, put a fudgeing coat on, and buy your fudgeing socks another time.

There seems to be a core of 6,000 who attend all the time. It grows to 8,000 if the time is perfect, the weather is good but it is down to the last 8 on NZ Idol. It gets to 10,000 when the other conditions are met and NZ Idol is finished. From a base of 6,000, that is not enough. As the outsider in the competition it is not a case of just not being the worst compared to other clubs, we have to be better to justify our existence. Unfair, but reality. The Wellington public has not stood up and supported the club enough, and now there is a real chance that they might not exist anymore. We can get angry with the FFA and Southern Sydney and Sky and Simon Cowell, but the fact that every week thousands of people in the city who play and love football couldn't get off their cods and get to games to support the club. That is a massive fudgeing shame.

There are some different issues here.

First - croud capture rates by population size is a completely valid 'metric' used in sports and arts audience management all the time. It shows the Wellington population are materially more supportive of their club through their attendance numbers than are the catchment populations for most other A-league clubs. This is also achieved without the benefits of derbies or significant visiting fan numbers. It it not irrelevant when croud numbers are continually cited as a significant problem and most people seem to believe Wellington doesn't support football. We are performing at several times the rate at which Melbourne and Sydney crouds are performing. It is significant or a number of reasons - it shows there is good support for football here (in relative terms); it shows there is probably good opportunity for expansion; it shows sponsors that there is a good presence in Wellington, it shows that we are doing something right - others should be looking at us. We're also exceeding rugby here - in New Zealand. Gross attendance numbers in this context are simply misleading - assuming a smart business sense is being applied.

Second - of course that is not to say we can't do better, and Welnix are proving that it can be done it steadily improving team performance, feeder development, club memberships and croud attendance. Obviously we are being held to a higher level of performance that everyone else, and in that respect its harder to show improvement since we're already doing better. Don't tell me we're not supporting football relatively well just because we haven't got a croud average of 10,000+. As I've said elsewhere, Sydney and Melbourne crouds would need to be over 100,000 to meet the support levels generated in Wellington. Come back and try that argument when their numbers are at that level. 

But again - that isn't to say it can't be improved here - nothing I would like more. I applaud any call to get more people there. But lets not buy into the negative propaganda and ignorance being used to undermine the Nix's and Welnix's position - lets start getting some of these 'facts' or 'metrics' out there to counter that and change the conversation to a more truthful basis - then we're getting somewhere. One 'fact' or 'metric' won't do it on  its own, but a portfolio of evidence disseminated smartly can start to influence the landscape - we should have been doing it for years already but better late than never. We're getting a lot of negative press and comment for plainly false reasons. Gallop is saying we're squatters on a licence - basically the old 'Kiwi bludger' argument being recycled and lapped up. We need to counter that as part of our wider approach. We need it to be an honest discussion about what really needs to be done to stop the axe ASAP, then we can move on to wider improvement initiatives. 

This doesn't make sense for so many reasons, not least that as you have said Melbourne needs to average 100k which is literally impossible Ruud.  I've also seen figures done that have to count the same people in multiple catchments areas (for example if you use 4.8m for Sydney FC and for WSW plus whatever you use for CCM that's expecting the same people potentially to attend 3 different clubs).  You're also talking about a far larger area with far more difficulties to travel.  Try getting from Sydney's North Shore out to Paramatta on a Saturday...

Let's get real here, I think we have seen recently that the club is well liked but not necessarily well supported.  That does need to change.  The club have acknowledged it.

I'm just demonstrating the impact of the numbers Wellington is getting. If Melbourne could get get 22 / per 1000 to a game (and I'm not saying they could) then they'd be averaging over 100,000. What I'm saying is that we are hitting pretty high targets for croud attendance. I'm sick if everyone bagging us for being poor supporters of football when we're statistically better supporters than the towns most of them live in. It amazes me how some Phoenix supporters are happy to perpetuate the myth. Basically helping do FFA's hatchet job for them. OK we have smaller gross numbers - who is surprised by that - but if we were performing as badly as most other clubs they'd be a lot lower. Credit where its due I reckon. And that is of course not saying we can't do better - we damn well have to as we are being required to do more than everyone else to justify ourselves. 

As this whole sage unfolds a lot of the other positives are coming out and each day the whole package we represent is looking more creditable - check out the youth development postings, croud growth trends, membership growth trends etc. Its all going in the right direction. None of this is helped by perpetuating the myths.

I am happy using the total numbers for each city as even if there's two teams in them well they've both got access to the same populations, but even if you divide the populations in half as an assumption they still have far higher populations.

Population for CCM is the Gosford area - taken from the Aussies census.

Permalink Permalink