Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

Neither of you is wrong here, which is why this is going round in circles a bit. 

There is a fair point that FOX would like to get more subscribers, as they are probably pissing themselves about EPL loss to Optus.

So getting more viewers and more money fuels this "short-term-gain" scenario playing out right now with FFA, probably with FOX playing much bigger role in this than it appears (but if you listen to Robbie Slater and his like, you already get the idea).

But of course we all know that if this was to make sense, they would have finally invited Canberra to the A-League. That would give them a new, even if smallish, batch of subscribers and also new bums on seats at the Belconnen Oval. However, their (Canberra) business model was apparently seen as close but marginal, last time FFA checked, which is why FFA turned it down. We are in contrast more stable, apparently, under WelNix, than Canberra, and definitely more stable than many other teams in existence now.

So here is the shtick: FFA finds a better / possibly more stable / business model with the South Sydney group, decides this new boy on the block may be more likely to survive than Canberra or NQ Fury, but then FFA forgets about Sydney FC already claiming that patch of town. Next minute Scott Barlow and Graeme Arnold are screaming murder, and Frank Lowy is turning his water hose on them.

And as for the other complication, the current FOX deal is for 10 teams.  Not sure when it expires, but FOX does not want to renegotiate a new deal now to be for 11 or 12 teams, as they do not want to spend more money right now, they want to earn more money especially with the loss of EPL.  So they might have just put the hard word on FFA to get rid of us as the stumbling block, "squatting" on their "spare seat" among ten clubs, in return for low payout from SKY TV.  

So as someone else (Valeo? Conan? I can't remember) correctly pointed out, it actually has very little to do with football. It has a lot to do with everything else than football, chiefly with money, and little to do with the team performance, croud behaviour or the AFC/OFC saga.  

My guess is that the problem would possibly disappear if the new broadcast deal was through a provider with joint presence in both Australia and New Zealand, say Netflix or similar, and suddenly we may see FFA making overtures to Auckland, as it is the only remaining 1 million plus city "desperately aching for an A-League franchise", and who knows, maybe even to Christchurch. And we already have a rectangular stadium down here, and excellent local craft beer, with caviar optional (:-D

The teams don't all generate 1/10th of the revenue - if they allocated revenue based on how much each club contributes then you will have ~3 teams getting a majority of the revenue and creating a very unbalanced league.

Not sure that the Nix promoting a blog critical of the FFA on their social media is a good look. Particularly when the publisher is publically unknown.

And by that I mean it isn't. The club doesn't need to stoop to their level - that's what us fans are for.

This.

Put really simply the TV equation is: Content x Ratings = Eyeballs, which is what Fox is interested in.

The Nix supply 10% of the content but not 10% of the ratings. What Fox is actually buying from the FFA depends on your point of view but it makes quite a big difference whether you emphasise the content or the ratings. If you are sympathetic to the Nix you're more likely to put the emphasis on content and argue that the Nix do a good, relatively risk-free, job of delivering their content so the FFA is getting good value. The FFA seem to see it differently and are arguing that ratings are what's important, especially when they can get the content somewhere else. They also seem to be putting less weight on the risk part of the equation i.e. the risk of replacing a stable team with a new one (with the aim of generating higher ratings) vs the risk of expanding the league (with the aim of generating more content).

I wonder if the best way forward for TV revenue is to not just look at the Australia/NZ markets but also try to generate more money out of global markets. I know the A League is broadcast in some random other places but maybe try to spread that. Having English language commentary already is a big plus. Obviously rights in other markets aren't going to be worth much for each individual deal but could they add up to make up a significant portion of total TV revenue?

When you think about this Optus deal, what the fudge is ratings anymore anyway? What's the value of someone watching a full game on TV versus someone watching a 30 second highlights package on their mobile? Does an advertiser care? If they care, how much? What are they prepared to pay to get seen across all the possible options and channels? For example, the Nix are in the top 5 A-League clubs for Facebook presence. What's that worth in the modern world? Fudgeing melts my brain just thinking about it.

#metrics

Tim Brown was always sharke. Now he's just talking it.

Personally I think it's super short sighted because long term if you want to expand NZ is the place to go but if you kill the Phoenix you kill pro football.  No chance it comes back here.  We may be behind Aussie but there is a real possibility for growth here and the club is stable.  The idea of an Asian league with Singapore or Indonesia is pie on the sky.  But I am just outlining the other way of looking at this which I think some people are missing.

Yeah, no matter how hard I try to think about this from the FFA point of view, or a purely commercial point of view, I still can't quite see the sense in killing off the Phoenix. I can understand why they would look hard at it, but it just doesn't add up.

In the current circumstances, from NZF's perspective, what is more important - Nix All Whites turning out for Nix on Nov 13?  Or Nix All Whites missing the Nix game to play friendly v Oman. (Supposedly Hudson's strongest squad so Moss, McGlinchey, Fenton, Doyle probably; and maybe Rufer).

Strongest squad of players still willing to play for him.

It is hard to see players turning down a call-up, yet I am all in favour of The Nix fielding the strongest team possible.

So NZF just emailed their database plugging ASB Premiership, plus a survey monkey questionnaire. Good. And easy. Hmm.

So everyone here thinks that Tim Brown with his Masters Degree in Economics, time spent playing for the all whites and Phoenix and subsequent entrepreneurship is talking out of his ass?

I think he is more bang on then most. The squatter here is actually NZ football and not the Phoenix or anyone else

I saw in the Herald article reference to 1 million bucks being pumped into the Phoenix by NZ football. Anyone heard of that before and any idea where that money is spent?

Because if it was true NZ football would have been shouting about this from the tree tops

And SKY would be shouting about paying more then 180k for there A-League TV deal from tree tops.

Shark this is getting to be like the off season are we there yet.

Mind showing me where in NZ footballs balance sheet is this one million they have pumped into the Phoenix then?

Anyone else think it's a bit poor that the latest In The Nix frames it against us against "the Aussies", given how much support we're getting from over there?

But more to the point, it's just false logic to say so and so is an expert on X subject and says Y statement about X subject, therefore Y statement is true. That may be the case but it's not necessarily the case. In this instance there's people who could equally be considered experts who also disagree with him - the owners of other clubs, football journalists, etc. Sure they may have personal reasons for disagreeing but he might have personal reasons for his position - an axe to grind with NZf over their general shambolic-ness, for instance.

Yeah, but Joe Public doesn't know who the FFA is, let alone David Gallop ("that NRL guy") or Frank Lowy, let alone their involvement in all of this. Message is effective in getting the casuals along I think, just as long as it doesn't become  Us vs Them like Perth are doing with their #westvrest hashtag.

Some of their database

Not really, I think there would be some people in grassroots football who would not be happy for their levy monies to be spent this way without consultation, so NZF could have done it on the down low

Free ticket to waibop against Auckland City at Waikato stadium in the inbox. Can't turn that down, would have paid to go as well!

Free tickets eh? Someone's worked out the difference between attendances and capacity at the venues then. Took a while.

latest NZF Balancing Sheet is Here

"The proposed sale of Newcastle Jets to a consortium led by Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson looks to be off the table"

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/11/04/...

I wonder if seeing the arbitrary treatment of the Nix has put him off?

And this:

"Ironically, Thomson had agreed to buy the club for $3.5 million from Tinkler just days before he was deposed by the governing body"

Inept from the FFA.

Torquay United within the last couple of months. Fans bailed it badly.

His comment is straight out of the mouth of other ex AW players and coaches.  Slag off NZF at all costs (right Rufer, Sumner, Wait, Fallon, Edge, Malcolmson, Hay etal.)

I've heard nothing, nor has my old man whom I'm sure would love to get a free ticket to WaiBop for all the cash he's spent on Hamilton AFc, Waikato United, Melville United, Waikato AFC and WaiBop down the years.

Other than me, no one seems to give a rats arse about the A League coverage here in the UK on BT Sport.

It wouldn't surprise me if the FFA pulled the trigger on Tinkler after they got wind that the deal was close to going through so that they could cash in on selling the club rather than Tinkler. It seems that the FFA are now left paying millions each year to keep the club running while trying to find someone willing to lose that money for them. Although why an asset of a club would lose $1.5 million a year is beyond me, it's not like they are a liability like the Nix ;)

This

What NZF needs to get their heads around the fact that without the Nix, football is effectively dead in NZ.

They might think that the newly televised ASB championship is going to be a great push for local football. However they are dreaming. People don't connect with the local comp. You can get 6000 people at the ROF watching the Nix on Saturday and how many of them go to see Team Wellington play the next day?...60 or 70.

The Aw's don't play in NZ. 99% of media coverage for NZ football is generated by the Nix. Without the Nix football NZ football will disappear from the sporting landscape. The AW's will be weakened. The likes of Fenton, Doyle etc will not get gigs with other A-league clubs. We already know that the gulf between ASB and internationally is too great. The pathway for young kiwi kids will be more difficult.

As much as it would stick in my throat NZF might have to write out a fat cheque to the FFA each season as a Phoenix participation fee. Because it seems only more money for the FFA is going to save the Nix.

No Nix = local NZ football back in the dark ages

Bring back Sydney Rovers' bid.

A couple of days after Gallop said they were only interested in expanding into the large metropolitan areas, Lowy mentioned a list of possible areas that they could expand into including Canberra and Wollongong. This was of course following his comments on how people should stop speculating and spreading misinformation. Why people would resort to speculation when the FFA have been so transparent and consistent in their message is a mystery to me!

Hereford United?