Also gets the Heart and Victory mixed up.
sam morgan stars in the new hit nz comedy 'shit my dad says' Tuesday nights on TV2
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Gareth's response. http://garethsworld.com/blog/wellington-phoenix/the-latest-on-the-phoenix/
Didn't apologise for saying that those of us who care about the League Table are pathetic, but instead called us gullible for believing the story about him telling Ricki how to play, despite not coming out immediately and saying what was really going on. Thanks Gareth, appreciate it.
He has been saying that Ricki was on board/part of the process that looked at the style of play and what changes were needed to win the HAL. I don't recall if he had said that in his first interview with Veitch but has certainly said that.
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does he forget not all of us are millionaires
and if i was id bring heaps of mates
I LOVE LAMP
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I wonder how much the owners now wish they stuck with the solid-defensive Phoenix of old. My view is that we should've looked towards the Central Coast Mariners (CCM) as our blueprint for success, not Melbourne Victory, Brisbane Roar or laughably Barcelona.
CCM have conceded only 11 goals in 17 games and sit deservedly at the top of the table. And while they'd hardly be called 'entertainers' they've scored 26 goals, just two less than the Victory who are the A-League's best 'footballing' team. CCM also have the league's top goal scorer in 35-year-old Daniel McBreen.
They've finished on top of the table twice, second once, third once and fourth once - qualifying for the finals on 5 out of 7 occasions. They do lack an overall premiership with three seconds and a third, but as we all know, finals and especially football finals can be decided on very small margins (Two 1 nil losses and a penalty shoot-out loss).
Their average home attendance (for the last full season 2011-12) was 9,628, so not far off the 'magic' 10k. And this is from a population of 400k, which is less than the Wellington Region.
And as if you needed more convincing - they also play in stripes, their supporters are called the Yellow Army and they also don't entertain the idea of a proper marque player (which is fine). I rest my case.
Our population is between 250 & 290.... Sydney have a lot of weekender's on the Coast...
On the 9, 628 crowd it was in a season when we started most of our matches before 5:30 and on the Coast in summer its the water first and daylight second... this is the google Central Coast link ....
This year out of 7 games two its has poured all day and two were played in over 40 degrees .... our crowds are 10, 615 ...
We also play most games with 4 to 5 ... 20 and under player... most games with only two or three players over 25...
I dare say the difference between the Mariners and the Nix and most other teams is we have built our game around two things... first having a high quality youth side that trains with the first team so players can slot in...Second and to your point we play a highly technical game based around a fast transmission of the ball from defence to attack and when that does not work hold the ball and look for openings...
Wellington Region includes Porirua and the Hutt, which I think are close enough to be included in the possible crowd market.
I think the fact you've justified the CCM crowd with things like timing of matches, youth policies and an appropriate game plan says it can be done if you know your market.
I'm certainly not saying it's an absolutely perfect comparison, but it's not a bad guide.
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I guess what I am saying is its a whole of club approach.....
You need a youth team to feed the first squad ... the Mariners have always had a youth team even before the A-League had one... we simply played our youth team in the local state competition.. I am sure Wellington would have a senior grade that a youth side could play in...
My experience is that early games get less crowds as do Sunday afternoon matches... this year our average will increase by about 15% because we played a lot of games after 7:00PM with less derbies... Next year we have six local derbies seven if you count our annual New Years Eve match... in that we play the Scum, Hackers FC & WSW twice whereas this year we played them only once... and last year WSW did not exist...
Most importantly you need a board that set the standard and a coach who can deliver what is wanted ... my outside view is management have come up with a plan... The problem is it was foolish of the coach to try and implement it mid year .... and maybe the A-League and National duties combined are a bit much for one coach...
Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei
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Gareth's response. http://garethsworld.com/blog/wellington-phoenix/the-latest-on-the-phoenix/
Didn't apologise for saying that those of us who care about the League Table are pathetic, but instead called us gullible for believing the story about him telling Ricki how to play, despite not coming out immediately and saying what was really going on. Thanks Gareth, appreciate it.
Pathetic and gullible, good day to be us! Would be nice if he let anyone else at all do the talking for awhile and maybe STFU for a bit.
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When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought ok, passionate fans from Wellington who don't want to lose any games to Auckland. Now I see the true meaning of it- the club is becoming a circus every time right wing Morgan opens his mouth.
Auckland will rise once more
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The official Wellington catchment is about half a million people, it is also the most educated and wealthiest region in NZ.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Just wondering what everyone having a moan about Gareth would prefer? Because I doubt there would be any A-league in NZ without him and the rest of the Welnix.
His timing and use of words was pretty poor but his points are pretty fair, he's pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into the club and all he's getting is bitching and moaning in return.
The way I see it the facts are:
- The Nix have almost always played atrocious football so they are trying to improve that. I for one welcome the change, and accept it may take longer than hoped. I was at my wits end with their performances at the beginning of the season despite being in and around 6th place.
- They are building a youth system that will greatly benefit NZ football in the long run and we are already seeing the emergence of some young Kiwi talent for which there was never a pathway before (bar one or 2 lucky ones Rojas, Kosta etc)
- They are trying their best to get the club to the point where it is self sufficient and doesn’t lose money, If they fail then eventually there will be no A league in NZ, as no one wants to run a money losing business forever.
- I also don’t get all the angst about taking (max 3-4) games on the road, seems to me that a lot of people miss the point that they were just lucky Welly got the license over anywhere else in NZ, a great football culture has emerged but that’s not to say that Welly has the monopoly on football support in NZ, I certainly don’t see anyone complaining when thousands of people all round the country buy merchandise and travel to Welly for home games. And again the alternative may be that the game is no longer viable in NZ.
All this bagging of Gareth and threatening to pull season ticket membership seems counter productive as all that will happen is you'll lose the nix all together.
I have been despairing over what has happened this season but got to the point now where I'm willing to just accept that teams have bad seasons and just get on with supporting and appreciating the fact I have a team to support on the weekend and debate and discuss during the week.
This...except for the bit about atrocious....some of it has been good
I am not surprised that Gareth has taken a pot shot at "some" of the fans. The owners have taken some serious flack on this forum. Loads of it has been misinformed and some of it downright nasty. Some of you so called fans have refused to acknowledge what the owners are trying to do with the club and supported your arguments with half truths and plain lies. If I was an owner I would be calling some of you pathetic as well.
If the Welnix plan does not work then there will be no more Phoenix in Wellington......do you not understand this!
These guys are not oil billionaires or property tycoons. Thy are medium sized fish in a very small pond. They have made a success of their businesses by intelligent hard work. They admit they are not football fans but are motivated by a desire to preserve a Wellington sporting entity. Gareth is right when he said he has not heard any alternative to cover the annual $1 million loss except for these guys to put their hands in their own pockets.
We have had a very reasoned logical press statement from the Chairman which outlines the current and long term goals for the club. It also puts to bed the "owners telling Ricki his job" lie. This has been largely ignored on this forum and replaced by a bunch of false shrill outrage about Gareths comments. If you get outraged by this and feel that you will not renew your membership then bugger off! We don't need so called fans like you. Some of you need to harden up!
Some of the comments on the last few pages are disgusting....I thought we had forum moderators .....comments like eat dick, hair lip, moron, clown etc have no place on this forum
What do some of you think will result from going to war with the owners? At what point will they say we don't need this shiite and pull the plug. I am not surprised that Gareth thinks some of you are pathetic.
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The official Wellington catchment is about half a million people, it is also the most educated and wealthiest region in NZ.
Smart man that Prebble :) probably worked a bit better then insulting everyone it would seem.
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He could also be referring to the nix facebook posters.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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actually the guy on the right looks suspiciously like gareth morgan
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Midfielder Yep, I think we're in agreement.
The CCM approach, right from the beginning has been sensible, wide ranging and with a view to winning. And so far it's not doing too badly - certainly worth emulating in some form.
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We have had a very reasoned logical press statement from the Chairman which outlines the current and long term goals for the club. It also puts to bed the "owners telling Ricki his job" lie.
Actually I think therein lies the real problem. If RobM had been commenting more and Gareth a bit less, we might have avoided a lot of this. From my perspective I don't really disagree with most of what Gareth has said, but the way he's said it hasn't been at all good.
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austin10 - mostly agree with you.
My problem is not so much with what Gareth is trying to say but the way he is saying it. What he forgets is that $30 from someone he thinks is being pathetic is still $30. Why upset people if you don't need to?
Still, the very last paragraph in his latest blog does acknowledge the vast majority of Phoenix fans so that's good. And Nik (Welnik) leaves a cracking comment on there that I agree with 100%.
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He is saying that some of the views of fans on the "message boards" ( what message boards could he mean?), are pathetic, views that link the recent tactical changes with a poorer position on the table and that they are ruled by emotion not evidence.
Well sorry but we are gash at the mo and "total football" might not be the be all and end all of the the problems at the Phoenix but it has hardly helped. By coming out and saying that there was going to be changes in playing style to the press, was foolish in the extreme because the new tactics have done f all to help us win matches and we look less solid. The press love this.
Emotional some of us maybe, but most of us have watched a sight more football than Morgan and I don't think any of us would have been so naive and foolish to keep spouting on to the press and making us look like a divided laughingstock.
His continued tweets just dig him a deeper hole.
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Regardless of what the message was supposed to be Gareth has clearly lost control of what the media is saying, its not just the NZ media as well its the same in Australia. Coming out with more controversial statements is just adding fuel to the fire and increasing the misunderstandings.
The Phoenix need to make considered press releases until this has gone away and make very clear what is happening. Maybe make a formal press release. We are already a laughing stock, no need to make things worse with these rash interviews.
What is happening is actually considered and intelligent but the press and the misunderstandings propagated by them makes it seem like a complete shambles. Probably there is nothing that can be done to rectify this situation.
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What is happening is actually considered and intelligent but the press and the misunderstandings propagated by them makes it seem like a complete shambles. Probably there is nothing that can be done to rectify this situation.
Win.
E + R + O
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I think there are way to many sensitive Yellow Fever fans. When you actually hear the full story of events and not snippets the media release he actually raises some good points.
If I personally was a wealthy businessman after how I have seen some of the reactions by fans I wouldnt want to go near putting money into any professional team. End of the day if it wasnt for people like Gareth and Terry Serepisos then we wouldn't have a Phoenix.
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Don't think there's anything I can add that hasn't been said yet.
Except add a wish for someone with bucketloads of cash who is associated with Wellington and/or New Zealand and is passionate about football to come and buy the club.
Because I think it's highly unlikely that it will ever break even consistently as a business, let alone make a profit, and if the owners think otherwise they are in for a surprise. The fact that they seem unwilling to invest in the key type of capital for a successful football team (ie playing staff) makes me even more sceptical. The A League is football backwater and football is the 3rd or 4th sport in both Australia and New Zealand. There's no pathway to continental football or the Club World Cup for the Phoenix either. Quality kiwi youngsters might come through the academy and be flicked on for a profit but to be honest that's a bit of a lottery and you're competing with a bunch of other pathways to professional football for talented youngsters as well. And If the club is currently losing $1m a year, would we produce $1m worth of youngsters a year to make up for it? I doubt it.
The Nix might be able to break even consistently in the very longterm, like a decade or more, but I wouldn't build a business model around it.
And don't take this as a dig at the owners. I'm stoked they bought the club. If the choice was between no club and a club owned by people who aren't football people, then obviously I'd choose the latter. But I just think there's much more chance the club will survive longterm if the owners are willing to absorb the losses. If in 5 years time the club is still losing $1m a year, will these guys still be willing to keep paying?
In that blog response Gareth pretty much said they're open to selling the club to someone willing to foot the bill too: "Unless of course someone wants to step up and fund the $1m per year annual losses that currently prevail. "
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Kim Dotcom anyone? He doesn't seem to mind throwing his money away on ego-boosting purchases :P
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
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Welnix are not billionaires and not huge football enthusiasts. Brings up the point of was welnix the right owner for the Phoenix. If they aren't prepared to spend a bit of money as start up costs to get the club on the right foot the Phoenix will never develop to where they want them to be in 5 years. No marquee signings, no spending on a more costly coach, threatening to move matches out of Wellington to save money. Football clubs are not huge revenue earners and most of them run at a loss. Owners own clubs for the enjoyable and exciting adventures and try and be world beaters, not for profit margins. Which seems only thing welnix wworried about
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If I personally was a wealthy businessman after how I have seen some of the reactions by fans I wouldnt want to go near putting money into any professional team.
I can understand the reaction by many of the loyal fans on this forum - Gareth's strong and forthright language doesn't win him a position in the diplomatic corps.
However, austin10, Tunnel Vision and others, if the owners react badly to interwebz rantings (because other than boycotting OUR team, we only have these fora - YF, facebebo and twatter - to vent any angst or show support/displeasure) and pull the plug on the club then I'd suggest they are the pathetic ones.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Don't think there's anything I can add that hasn't been said yet.
Except add a wish for someone with bucketloads of cash who is associated with Wellington and/or New Zealand and is passionate about football to come and buy the club.
Because I think it's highly unlikely that it will ever break even consistently as a business, let alone make a profit, and if the owners think otherwise they are in for a surprise. The fact that they seem unwilling to invest in the key type of capital for a successful football team (ie playing staff) makes me even more sceptical. The A League is football backwater and football is the 3rd or 4th sport in both Australia and New Zealand. There's no pathway to continental football or the Club World Cup for the Phoenix either. Quality kiwi youngsters might come through the academy and be flicked on for a profit but to be honest that's a bit of a lottery and you're competing with a bunch of other pathways to professional football for talented youngsters as well. And If the club is currently losing $1m a year, would we produce $1m worth of youngsters a year to make up for it? I doubt it.
The Nix might be able to break even consistently in the very longterm, like a decade or more, but I wouldn't build a business model around it.
And don't take this as a dig at the owners. I'm stoked they bought the club. If the choice was between no club and a club owned by people who aren't football people, then obviously I'd choose the latter. But I just think there's much more chance the club will survive longterm if the owners are willing to absorb the losses. If in 5 years time the club is still losing $1m a year, will these guys still be willing to keep paying?
In that blog response Gareth pretty much said they're open to selling the club to someone willing to foot the bill too: "Unless of course someone wants to step up and fund the $1m per year annual losses that currently prevail. "
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Kim Dotcom anyone? He doesn't seem to mind throwing his money away on ego-boosting purchases :P
Bloody hell BZ. Have I said it before?
I want to have your babies dammit. I will take care of them in my spaceship.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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I think there are way to many sensitive Yellow Fever fans. When you actually hear the full story of events and not snippets the media release he actually raises some good points.
If I personally was a wealthy businessman after how I have seen some of the reactions by fans I wouldnt want to go near putting money into any professional team. End of the day if it wasnt for people like Gareth and Terry Serepisos then we wouldn't have a Phoenix.
Well good for you. If we don't turn up then there won't be a club either and that's not a snippet.
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Don't think there's anything I can add that hasn't been said yet.
Except add a wish for someone with bucketloads of cash who is associated with Wellington and/or New Zealand and is passionate about football to come and buy the club.
Because I think it's highly unlikely that it will ever break even consistently as a business, let alone make a profit, and if the owners think otherwise they are in for a surprise. The fact that they seem unwilling to invest in the key type of capital for a successful football team (ie playing staff) makes me even more sceptical. The A League is football backwater and football is the 3rd or 4th sport in both Australia and New Zealand. There's no pathway to continental football or the Club World Cup for the Phoenix either. Quality kiwi youngsters might come through the academy and be flicked on for a profit but to be honest that's a bit of a lottery and you're competing with a bunch of other pathways to professional football for talented youngsters as well. And If the club is currently losing $1m a year, would we produce $1m worth of youngsters a year to make up for it? I doubt it.
The Nix might be able to break even consistently in the very longterm, like a decade or more, but I wouldn't build a business model around it.
And don't take this as a dig at the owners. I'm stoked they bought the club. If the choice was between no club and a club owned by people who aren't football people, then obviously I'd choose the latter. But I just think there's much more chance the club will survive longterm if the owners are willing to absorb the losses. If in 5 years time the club is still losing $1m a year, will these guys still be willing to keep paying?
In that blog response Gareth pretty much said they're open to selling the club to someone willing to foot the bill too: "Unless of course someone wants to step up and fund the $1m per year annual losses that currently prevail. "
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Kim Dotcom anyone? He doesn't seem to mind throwing his money away on ego-boosting purchases :P
Bloody hell BZ. Have I said it before?
I want to have your babies dammit. I will take care of them in my spaceship.
I think the A league will make money but you're right it's going to be be a long way off.
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OK here's an idea
People have been spouting off about the owners refusing to front up more $$$ for a marque. Why don't we add a $100 "marque surcharge" to next years season tickets. $100 x 2500 season tickets holders = $250,000 Nix fans chip in half and the owners pay the other half = $500,000.
How many of our "phoenix til I die" loyalists would put their hands in their own pocket? not many, I would guess. Its easier to bitch on about how "other" people should spend money.
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OK here's an idea
People have been spouting off about the owners refusing to front up more $$$ for a marque. Why don't we add a $100 "marque surcharge" to next years season tickets. $100 x 2500 season tickets holders = $250,000 Nix fans chip in half and the owners pay the other half = $500,000.
How many of our "phoenix til I die" loyalists would put their hands in their own pocket? not many, I would guess. Its easier to bitch on about how "other" people should spend money.
Which is exactly why they feel like they are stakeholders in the club.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
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Bloody hell BZ. Have I said it before?
I want to have your babies dammit. I will take care of them in my spaceship.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
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Hats off to The Herald for running a few really good, nicely balanced, pieces on this today...
Morgan comments could turn fans away
Morgan responds to fan criticism
Morgan like a cat on a hot tin roof
I'm still surprised that nobody in the NZ media has reported Rob Morrison's comments from Aus 442 yesterday though.
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OK here's an idea
People have been spouting off about the owners refusing to front up more $$$ for a marque. Why don't we add a $100 "marque surcharge" to next years season tickets. $100 x 2500 season tickets holders = $250,000 Nix fans chip in half and the owners pay the other half = $500,000.
How many of our "phoenix til I die" loyalists would put their hands in their own pocket? not many, I would guess. Its easier to bitch on about how "other" people should spend money.
IIRC it has been suggested a season or 2 ago...
A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen
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I agree with Austin 10 also, and think Gareth answered some of the rubbish on here and in the papers well. Some pathetic responses in reply to it - and some good ones, like Nik and Steve
There is some inconsistent modding lately, you cant slag off and abuse the players but the owners are fair game?
Kim Dotcom, that's desparate. We are not desparate, we have a solid group of owners, and they want this to succeed, we werent under the old system, good on them/the coaching staff for calling a change
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OK here's an idea
People have been spouting off about the owners refusing to front up more $$$ for a marque. Why don't we add a $100 "marque surcharge" to next years season tickets. $100 x 2500 season tickets holders = $250,000 Nix fans chip in half and the owners pay the other half = $500,000.
How many of our "phoenix til I die" loyalists would put their hands in their own pocket? not many, I would guess. Its easier to bitch on about how "other" people should spend money.
IIRC it has been suggested a season or 2 ago...
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OK here's an idea
People have been spouting off about the owners refusing to front up more $$$ for a marque. Why don't we add a $100 "marque surcharge" to next years season tickets. $100 x 2500 season tickets holders = $250,000 Nix fans chip in half and the owners pay the other half = $500,000.
How many of our "phoenix til I die" loyalists would put their hands in their own pocket? not many, I would guess. Its easier to bitch on about how "other" people should spend money.
IIRC it has been suggested a season or 2 ago...
Yep - I'd do it right now.
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Quick somebody whip up a dodgy Italien 3rd party ownership player agreement? Sounds good
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I would do it too!
....and if the marque turned out to be shit we could have a roster so he would come around and mow our lawns for the rest of his stay in Wellington!
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