Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

that was amazing

Exactly. Clutching at straws perhaps. Per capita attendance doesn't pay the bills, actual attendance does and sorry to say but 6,000 is pissweak. Even worse that it's 6,000 in a 36,000 stadium. A 16% full stadium on TV looks like crap, whatever the excuse.

Not a good look for the league.

To be fair they obviously don't care about how the league looks

Flares, bankrupt clubs/owners = ok

No flares, not bankrupt owners = not ok

I have sent email to FFA venting my personal opinions on their folly. Should we also harass Hyundai I wonder?

If actual attendance was such an important factor then why would they approve the damn club in the first place?

Did they really expect 10% of the population would turn up to every game? Because thats absurd if they thought that might happen.

If they looked at stat's like how our most popular sport does then anyone would know what to expect attendance wise.

Because it is a major part of why we don't get bigger crouds.

Agreed that all that appears to matter here are short-term $$$. However that doesn't make facts irrelevant - it just means the decision-makers in this case are ignoring facts that do matter in most successful businesses - such as an enterprise's health, sustainability, backer commitment, performance, expansion strategies and future focus - these sorts of things are actually valued features in smart companies - sadly not in the business of Australian football it seems.

And I'm just making the point that we're already doing better than most of the others despite not having derbies and away fans to boost numbers - so how crap are they? That doesn't mean we can't do better - but how much better do we have to be? 

So lets look at our first two games of the season. One is at 7pm on a Sunday night and Bathurst is on at the same time and the other is on a Saturday night right smack in the middle of a national public holiday. FFS what did Federation Football Sydney expect? Makes me wonder if that wasn't planned too just to make it look worse than it really is. 

Gonna be interesting to see if Federation Football Sydney react to comments and polls that are very much supporting us on their side of the Tasman. Sounds like Gallop is fudgeing over football just like he did the League, hence they arsehold him pronto.

I am quite surprised at the continuous excuses we find as a group as to why the previous weekends attendance was so poor. X or Y event was on so people had other stuff on, the weather was bullshark, the time was terrible... newsflash; there will always be other events on, the weather will always be bullshark, we are more often than not going to be playing in crappy time slots due to time zones.

The blame needs to be placed on the population and nix fans for not showing up. 

rumour has it that the welnix group are going to pull the pin straight away, and leave it to the FFA to fund the nix for the rest of the season, so all the players and 1st team staff will continue to be looked after for this season at least. 

However if this happens there are massive implications as the FFA will want to do it on the cheap, so as of Monday next week there could be no more Phoenix academy or Phoenix asb prem team as these are all additional costs that don't need to be incurred to play aleague. 

Not saying its wrong as I have no detail either way but sauce?

Who says they're ignoring these factors? 

Would not be surprised in the least.

I get sick of hearing the "poor crouds" argument.

Look at Sydney FC, Brisbane, Newcastle Jets and CCM, even Melbourne City.

Everytime I tune into their games I see more empty seats than people. Half empty stadiums are the norm for most A-League clubs. What is FFA on about?

Besides, since the start of the A-league, I certainly don't see any significant, if any, growth of average croud numbers for most clubs:

Check out the stats, some teams have even declined in average attendances http://aleaguestats.com/ALeagueStats_1CroudStats.h...

The Phoenix aren't doing enough? Based on the stats I'd like to ask: What are the other clubs doing then???

Also the continual chopping and changing and axing of teams does nothing for the growth or stability of the game. It is an absolute joke and evidence of the incompetence of FFA to create a credible, growing league with teams that have a history that people can look back on. 

Imagine how much more lucrative and relevant football in NZ would become if the Phoenix had an intimate 10-12k stadium to play out of, and the same for an Auckland team to have a derby. Then you'd start to even create a football culture.

As I see it, the Nix haven't even been given a chance. To create a football culture in a rugby mad country takes a long time. Although the Nix have already been a huge success in their short history. Its put football on the map and got people talking. All they need is some stability to plan for the future.

Of course we are going to miss it, but it is out of our hands.

PS it's my birthday today, thanks ffa for such a great present.

Notwithstanding the sharkhouse circumstances, happy birthday mate :)

Yep. Sad to say that a lot of people took the Nix for granted. Would everything have turned out better if they hadn't? Probably not, but it probably wouldn't taste so bitter either.

This, happy birthday mate.

Still lots of Nix matches to enjoy to celebrate.

I think it was Lowy's last board meeting. He went out stamping his fn authority

the per capita stat is more to throw at people who say "Wellington hasn't got behind their team". While we could do better, especially in bringing in the local football community, relative to other clubs we actually do very well as a city in getting behind the nix. 

I wonder if the FFA have been a bit surprised by the reaction from their side of the Tasman. I'm sure they always knew that kiwis would be upset, but they might have thought that Aussies wouldn't care or would support them.

I doubt the FFA will change their mind but it is nice to see the massive backlash from the vast majority of people associated with football in Australia.

This whole saga has got me thinking...

Thinking hurts!

The meeting of welnix was apparently yesterday. So I guess we hear the outcome some time this morning.

I find you hard to believe when your user name is Rumour Mill... lol

I don't think they will walk away during the season as the owners don't come across as people that are that vindictive, more to the players, management and fans than to the FFA who I'm sure they will be tempted to say Fudge It.

As for if they don't get the 10 years, I could see them walking away instead of four then.

What "The rumour mill" is saying is exactly what I would expect [b]IF[/b] Welnix had decided to fight fire with fire and brinkmanship with brinkmanship  - i.e. as a last-ditch threat to force FFA back to the table. Here's hoping.

True and if it really looks like all is lost, they could do that. Guess I'm hoping they won't so we would see the season out at the worst!

The club is currently worth nothing. They can't sell the license, they have no prospect of selling the club as a going concern, they have no opportunity to make any profit...... So only a fool would keep paying money into it with no prospect of a pay out at the end.

On the other hand, if they think they have a better than good chance of getting FFA to change their minds, they MIGHT hang on and give it a crack. Only they will really have a feel for that with their previous dealings with the FFA.

My balls my word.

fudge this.

They have said that they are not in this to make a profit, its a philanthropic thing that they are doing in order to keep an asset in Wellington. They want to see it grow and be self sufficient but they don't necessarily want to take money from the club. When they sold Nathan Burns Ernie said that the money was made available for the playing roster if need be, if they were in it t profit they would have taken the money away.

If they could see the club staying, being successful, and breaking even then based on their past behaviour then you would think they would consider it - if they haven't been burnt too deeply by the FFA.

It seems as though at the least the FFA want to have the Phoenix costs covered from within NZ, and even to profit. Which I guess is fair enough if you discount the fact that the Phoenix generate revenue within Australia. If Welnix are told you have to cover the cap entirely or your out then they are out because there is no way to make that work. If they are told that you have four years and we want to see x% increase in revenue, x% increase in attendance, and x% increase in ratings at which point you automatically get another five years then would that be tempting?

I've seen a lot of criticism about Rob Morrison yesterday, about him not understanding that the Phoenix isn't an infrastructure company but an entertainment product - and I wonder what more he and the entire team at the nix could have done? They have created an exciting and entertaining product and team. They brought in premier league teams, they are clearly not behaving like Go Wellington or Z energy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only money we get from the FFA the TV revenue towards the salary cap? Seeing as that is a proportion of the total TV revenue and we participate in 1/5 of the games in the comp, then haven't we effectively earned that money? Surely the money is proportionate to our contribution? Yeah I know that Sky pays squat all but would Fox pay more for a 10th Aussie team instead of us? Especially considering they would have to pay broadcast costs for it (currently 10% of games are broadcast using Sky equipment and commentators). I know its been said a million times before but the whole argument that we cost the FFA money is bollocks. I will tell you who is costing the FFA money though - the Jets, because the FFA is running them and there's no way they are breaking even or making a profit. 

I know we see it that way, but the FFA clearly don't.

The way that the FFA sees it is that that money could be spent on an Australian team where you don't have the extra cost of flights and don't have have additional development pathways. 

Apparently the costs of flights is a few hundred thousand dollars a year.

But surely our flights are that much more expensive than it would be to Perth? Is Qantas still one of the sponsors?

I know Perth has complained that they should get more money from FFA because it is more expsensive for them to travel than most teams.

I don't buy this.

The club has always had fairly steady support, sometimes a bit better, sometimes a little worse, for attendances to matches and in public presence around town (merchandise worn, yellow fever,..)

The FFA should get rid of all teams outside Sydney and Melbourne. Then have 4 teams in each city and have a conference in each city. Each team plays every other team in its conference 10 times. So that's 30 rounds of football with 4 derbies every round - 120 derbies in total. Then you have quarter finals, 2 legs, and semi finals, also 2 legs, still kept in each conference. That's 12 more derbies. Then you can have the grand final, which won't be a derby  unfortunately. If they're lucky though they might get a SFC v MV 'big blue' final..

There you go FFA, 132 derbies and a grand final and only one game will have travel costs.