Who would coach the reserves? Greenie, or would we need to find someone else?
You'd imagine that both the 1st team and reserves would be playing in the same or similar formation and style, as chosen by Ernie, to allow easy transition between the two teams if someone is required to step up (or down). So all the coaching would be done at training, all Greenie will have to do is ensure the game plan is rolled out and make subs.
Some devil's advocate questions from me around the desire to "develop players"...
I don't get the Phoenix saying that having a reserve team in the ASBP is a must for the club to become successful. I just don't buy that:
Is it meaningful games that Phoenix young players are lacking, or specialist youth coaching?
Wwhy do the Phoenix even need to develop young players themselves? We have 8 franchises and numerous private academies plus national teams and fed talent development all focussed on producing young players for pro football. And only one professional team - can't the Phoenix just cherry pick the best talent developed elsewhere, why do they actually have to develop their own young players?
Are the Phoenix going to be better at developing players than any other ASBP franchise? No evidence so far
Were the Phoenix hamstrung this year by reserve players not having played NZFC games, or their reserve players just being shit?
Normo's coming home
Some good stuff on the Phoenix/Asia Pacific academy in here
http://www.football365.com/f365-features/9310988/Coaches-Abroad
Normo's coming home
Some devil's advocate questions from me around the desire to "develop players"...
I don't get the Phoenix saying that having a reserve team in the ASBP is a must for the club to become successful. I just don't buy that:
Is it meaningful games that Phoenix young players are lacking, or specialist youth coaching?
Wwhy do the Phoenix even need to develop young players themselves? We have 8 franchises and numerous private academies plus national teams and fed talent development all focussed on producing young players for pro football. And only one professional team - can't the Phoenix just cherry pick the best talent developed elsewhere, why do they actually have to develop their own young players?
Are the Phoenix going to be better at developing players than any other ASBP franchise? No evidence so far
Were the Phoenix hamstrung this year by reserve players not having played NZFC games, or their reserve players just being shit?
Come on, he's not teaching them to play chess! We don't play a super technical style or a really out there formation so I don't buy that players need all this time to adjust. Riera had no trouble adapting because he's a good player, the guys who struggled were less talented.
I get why we want this, but I just don't buy the argument that this will be transformative for our results or player development
Mr Positive
We're different to Australia though because we're the only place where people can play professionally, in Aussie you have 9 clubs competing for Aussie players at state league level
Normo's coming home
Yes we may be the only team in NZ that is professional but the conditions for an Australian player signing for us are the same for the other 9 clubs so this '9 clubs competing for Aussie players at state league' does not wash because we are an 'Aussie club' - just not one that's in a desirable location for players. We have the added bonus that Kiwis are not imports so our talent recruitment pool of locals is larger so why are we not getting better players/results etc? I suspect that the reserves not playing is a good chunk of it but not the single biggest reason. If you can pull in a player that's been playing week in week out to fill a hole in the top team, that's better than pulling in a Shermy that's pulling splinters from his ass..... Even for ASBP, that's better than just training.
Grumpy old bastard alert
What rules are there with regards to loans into the ASB Premiership? Could we set up the reserve side in the competition to be amateur and then loan in players from the A-League squad occasionally when they need to get some game time.
What rules are there with regards to loans into the ASB Premiership? Could we set up the reserve side in the competition to be amateur and then loan in players from the A-League squad occasionally when they need to get some game time.
"There is a way of enabling the Phoenix to put a side in the ASB without jeopardising that [amateur status of ASB]" - Andy Martin. But no explanation.
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
What rules are there with regards to loans into the ASB Premiership? Could we set up the reserve side in the competition to be amateur and then loan in players from the A-League squad occasionally when they need to get some game time.
"There is a way of enabling the Phoenix to put a side in the ASB without jeopardising that [amateur status of ASB]" - Andy Martin. But no explanation.
What rules are there with regards to loans into the ASB Premiership? Could we set up the reserve side in the competition to be amateur and then loan in players from the A-League squad occasionally when they need to get some game time.
"There is a way of enabling the Phoenix to put a side in the ASB without jeopardising that [amateur status of ASB]" - Andy Martin. But no explanation.
TBF, details are probably way over the head of most readers of newspapers. When we get Andy on the podcast, we'll ask him the details.
Some devil's advocate questions from me around the desire to "develop players"...
I don't get the Phoenix saying that having a reserve team in the ASBP is a must for the club to become successful. I just don't buy that:
Is it meaningful games that Phoenix young players are lacking, or specialist youth coaching?
Wwhy do the Phoenix even need to develop young players themselves? We have 8 franchises and numerous private academies plus national teams and fed talent development all focussed on producing young players for pro football. And only one professional team - can't the Phoenix just cherry pick the best talent developed elsewhere, why do they actually have to develop their own young players?
Are the Phoenix going to be better at developing players than any other ASBP franchise? No evidence so far
Were the Phoenix hamstrung this year by reserve players not having played NZFC games, or their reserve players just being shit?
Come on, he's not teaching them to play chess! We don't play a super technical style or a really out there formation so I don't buy that players need all this time to adjust. Riera had no trouble adapting because he's a good player, the guys who struggled were less talented.
I get why we want this, but I just don't buy the argument that this will be transformative for our results or player development
What rules are there with regards to loans into the ASB Premiership? Could we set up the reserve side in the competition to be amateur and then loan in players from the A-League squad occasionally when they need to get some game time.
"There is a way of enabling the Phoenix to put a side in the ASB without jeopardising that [amateur status of ASB]" - Andy Martin. But no explanation.
TBF, details are probably way over the head of most readers of newspapers. When we get Andy on the podcast, we'll ask him the details.
Grumpy old bastard alert
Yes we may be the only team in NZ that is professional but the conditions for an Australian player signing for us are the same for the other 9 clubs so this '9 clubs competing for Aussie players at state league' does not wash because we are an 'Aussie club' - just not one that's in a desirable location for players. We have the added bonus that Kiwis are not imports so our talent recruitment pool of locals is larger so why are we not getting better players/results etc? I suspect that the reserves not playing is a good chunk of it but not the single biggest reason. If you can pull in a player that's been playing week in week out to fill a hole in the top team, that's better than pulling in a Shermy that's pulling splinters from his ass..... Even for ASBP, that's better than just training.
Normo's coming home
Actually I'm pretty sure A league clubs can sign players from other Clubs NYL sides, as long as its for the first team.
Could be wrong, just remember hearing it somewhere.
Edit: RR found it for me. NYL players are basically fair game and not tied down to their existing club. If an A league club offers a senior contract to an NYL player of another team, the existing team has 7 days to match or better that offer - but even if they do, the player can turn it down and move to the other club.
So they're basically free to move wherever.
Actually I'm pretty sure A league clubs can sign players from other Clubs NYL sides, as long as its for the first team.
Could be wrong, just remember hearing it somewhere.
Edit: RR found it for me. NYL players are basically fair game and not tied down to their existing club. If an A league club offers a senior contract to an NYL player of another team, the existing team has 7 days to match or better that offer - but even if they do, the player can turn it down and move to the other club.
So they're basically free to move wherever.
Ah yeah that's right. Remember thinking that's one disadvantage we have as our squad is effectively 3 players smaller than every other teams because of that. Wonder if we will be allowed to do similar with this reserve side.
That would have been perfect for the likes of ridenton and rufer last year.
That would have been perfect for the likes of ridenton and rufer last year.
Ah yeah that's right. Remember thinking that's one disadvantage we have as our squad is effectively 3 players smaller than every other teams because of that. Wonder if we will be allowed to do similar with this reserve side.
Spanish?
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Spanish?
Ramon's master-plan revealed finally.
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
NZF are also expected to announce the inclusion of a Wellington Phoenix reserve team in the national league within the next week or so.
long overdue.
NZF are also expected to announce the inclusion of a Wellington Phoenix reserve team in the national league within the next week or so.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/10317410/All...
Another great piece of work by Morrison, Morgan and co, aided by the change of guard at NZF; which Morrison and co just may have contributed to as well ... ?
A successful Football United Tour, prospects of another Prem League side visiting in future; a much more entertaining style of 'Nix play; some good young international signings; Michael McGlinchey wanting to play for the Nix; a Phoenix reserve side playing in the national league; and Vinnie Lia unlikely to start a single game in the season. All those seem like miracles compared to where we were, pre-Welnix, a couple of years ago.
Thought this was interesting. I vaguely remember discussion somewhere on how much a NYL team would cost
Roughly how much would it cost an A-League to put together their NYL team? Basically all players come from NPL or state teams, don't they?
— Adam Howard (@adamOsaussies) August 13, 2014
@adamOsaussies between $150,000 and $200,000 to run a youth team with all travel and expenses
— Lawrie McKinna (@LawrieMcKinna) August 13, 2014
Interesting.
My first thought was that seemed a bit low.
+ I presume it would be more for flying across the Tasman and the need for more overnights for a NZ team?
How on earth could you do that for $150k. If you play 14 players $5k you are half way there without travel costs etc.
I thought the FFA heavily subsidised the teams which they wouldn't do for the nix? Might be why its so low, wasn't the figure for a nix NYL team at $800-1000k?
Interesting.
My first thought was that seemed a bit low.
+ I presume it would be more for flying across the Tasman and the need for more overnights for a NZ team?
How on earth could you do that for $150k. If you play 14 players $5k you are half way there without travel costs etc.
The way I read it was that that was the estimate for running/entering a team in the NYL, not for running/entering a New Zealand team in the NYL. ie the cost for an Australian club to have a NYL team, assuming no NZ teams in the competition.
(a) the costs for NZ team would be higher, and (b) the costs for Australian clubs to do it would be (at least marignally) higher as well as soon as an NZ team entered the competition.
Interesting.
My first thought was that seemed a bit low.
+ I presume it would be more for flying across the Tasman and the need for more overnights for a NZ team?
How on earth could you do that for $150k. If you play 14 players $5k you are half way there without travel costs etc.
The way I read it was that that was the estimate fro running/entering a team in the NYL, not for running/entering a New Zealand team in the NYL. ie the cost for an Australian club to have a NYL team, assuming no NZ teams in the competition.
(a) the costs for NZ team would be higher, and (b) the costs for Australian clubs to do it would be (at least marignally) higher as well as soon as an NZ team entered the competition.
Sure, that's the way I read it too.
Thought this was interesting. I vaguely remember discussion somewhere on how much a NYL team would cost
Roughly how much would it cost an A-League to put together their NYL team? Basically all players come from NPL or state teams, don't they?
— Adam Howard (@adamOsaussies) August 13, 2014
@adamOsaussies between $150,000 and $200,000 to run a youth team with all travel and expenses
— Lawrie McKinna (@LawrieMcKinna) August 13, 2014
"Bell said the Junior Warriors operation cost more than $1 million a year but the club considered that money well spent."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/10391023/Scrapping-NYC-would-be-a-tragedy-for-Warriors
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/10412639/Pho...
Phoenix reserve team finally confirmed for ASB premiership
Great news as far as I am concerned. Also a new rule has been brought in stating 50% of the matchday squad must be eligible to play for NZ.
Looking at what sort of team we would have: I can see Caira, Brindell-South, Lia, Hicks, Ridenton and Rufer being the six players most likely not to be in the match day squad. So we already have a good number of midfielders at least.
Ifill
That's an interesting one. You could say it was against the spirit of what is supposed to mirror the a-league but could be a good way of rehabbing him with the possibility of playing for the Nix again.
Ifill
That's an interesting one. You could say it was against the spirit of what is supposed to mirror the a-league but could be a good way of rehabbing him with the possibility of playing for the Nix again.
Great news! If we win it are we eligible for the OCL? ;)
No, according to the Phoenix Twitter feed.