player ratings v Cold Goast
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
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Injuries!!!
Pasty 8 A couple of great saves, not sure if he knew he couldn't reach Brown's shot, but rooted to the spot
Manny 8 The number of tackles he won, and set up the goal, top game
Dura 6 good covering, but gave up some freee kicks in dangerous areas
Siggy 5.5 Combination with Dura is poor, almost gave away a late penalty
Lochie 6 Did his job
Ifill 6 Better than pre season, now he's injured again
Leo 6 Worked hard on defence
Timmy 5.5 defended hard, should have scored
Vinnie 5 Covered wwell without making much happen. Injured.
Greenie 8 IMpressive in the air, putting pressure on, scored
Sanchez 6 Some good work
Ward 5.5
Daniel 6 Some nice passes
Downey 5.5
What do you think?
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
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Yep the seasons up and running again good to see you are still part of the furniture .Agree with most,thought Siggy deserved higher and Daniel lower.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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i reckon bump sancehz up to a 7
vinnie up 2 a 6.5 was very solid
downey to a 5
Timmy to a 4
Siggy up to 6.5 showed some good pace which shcoked me
vinnie up 2 a 6.5 was very solid
downey to a 5
Timmy to a 4
Siggy up to 6.5 showed some good pace which shcoked me
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I do like reading your ratings. It didn't really feel like the season had started until they appeared.
Anyway. Brown down, Vinnie and Sanchez up for me. Sanchez looked class at the start of the match, but faded a bit worringly before he was injured.
Anyway. Brown down, Vinnie and Sanchez up for me. Sanchez looked class at the start of the match, but faded a bit worringly before he was injured.
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Disagree totally with Oi Oi saying Durante/Siggy combination is poor. A lot of the time when our defence was opened up down the middle was because of the DMs failing to track back or being caught out of position. Siggy was a 7 for me. Otherwise pretty much agree.
Manny best man on the park. Maybe if Paston had been fully fit he would've at least got near that goal. Looked more and more embarrassing with each replay.
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Ward invisible for me- not a great effort- needs beard back and number 4.
Brown- poor. No real distribution, not amazing on defense, didnt track players or stick to them when he lost them.
Lia- Unfortunate injury, easily better than Ward and Brown. Got good cross in and works as a center midfielder.
Sanchez, controlled play well, cant do much with long balls towards him, seems to have a football brain- good option to pass to muscat
Muscat - Legend. Mom for me. Solid as on defense, sticks to his man, gets in their grill, and often wins the ball. Great assist and selfless decision to pass when guys like Ifill would have shot. Our best player by far, as he in hungry to win the ball, tackles superb, and seems like the only player who knows how to pass and move.
Brown- poor. No real distribution, not amazing on defense, didnt track players or stick to them when he lost them.
Lia- Unfortunate injury, easily better than Ward and Brown. Got good cross in and works as a center midfielder.
Sanchez, controlled play well, cant do much with long balls towards him, seems to have a football brain- good option to pass to muscat
Muscat - Legend. Mom for me. Solid as on defense, sticks to his man, gets in their grill, and often wins the ball. Great assist and selfless decision to pass when guys like Ifill would have shot. Our best player by far, as he in hungry to win the ball, tackles superb, and seems like the only player who knows how to pass and move.
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A insight into style -
We startd off slow, but once we got into it, I was quite pleased with how we were looking. Lots more passes on the ground into the center than we used to do, so giving Sanchez and Greeny more ball. Ifill out wide was good, had some off passes however, but I think he didnt get enough chances to put his influence on the game.
My issues is that we do still hoof it up quite a bit too much when the going gets tough, which is even more annoying when we hoof it into open space where we have no players.
Also, guys come through the middle and get close to the edge of the box, but we stood off far too many times and let them shoot which wasnt good. Browny needed to drop back more to hold those guys out.
Small passing game worked for us on the most part, but we didnt move into space enough when we had those passing situations. Think we had a few passing triangle situations which were really nice, but we didnt really move the ball up in the process.
Think Wardy has a role to play this season, possibly wider if Iffy is out. Brown just not up to my standards, too casual too often. Need a striker with pace, as despite Greeny's excellent game, we aren't ever going to penetrate through the middle untill we have someone who can open up into space
We startd off slow, but once we got into it, I was quite pleased with how we were looking. Lots more passes on the ground into the center than we used to do, so giving Sanchez and Greeny more ball. Ifill out wide was good, had some off passes however, but I think he didnt get enough chances to put his influence on the game.
My issues is that we do still hoof it up quite a bit too much when the going gets tough, which is even more annoying when we hoof it into open space where we have no players.
Also, guys come through the middle and get close to the edge of the box, but we stood off far too many times and let them shoot which wasnt good. Browny needed to drop back more to hold those guys out.
Small passing game worked for us on the most part, but we didnt move into space enough when we had those passing situations. Think we had a few passing triangle situations which were really nice, but we didnt really move the ball up in the process.
Think Wardy has a role to play this season, possibly wider if Iffy is out. Brown just not up to my standards, too casual too often. Need a striker with pace, as despite Greeny's excellent game, we aren't ever going to penetrate through the middle untill we have someone who can open up into space
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I think I just realised why Brown plays better with a head bandage:
He's the invisible man and he needs to wear it so his team mates actually see him during the game.
Quod erat demonstrandum
He's the invisible man and he needs to wear it so his team mates actually see him during the game.
Quod erat demonstrandum
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Injuries!!!
Pasty 8 A couple of great saves, not sure if he knew he couldn't reach Brown's shot, but rooted to the spot
Manny 8 The number of tackles he won, and set up the goal, top game
Dura 6 good covering, but gave up some freee kicks in dangerous areas
Siggy 5.5 Combination with Dura is poor, almost gave away a late penalty
Lochie 6 Did his job
Ifill 6 Better than pre season, now he's injured again
Leo 6 Worked hard on defence
Timmy 5.5 defended hard, should have scored
Vinnie 5 Covered wwell without making much happen. Injured.
Greenie 8 IMpressive in the air, putting pressure on, scored
Sanchez 6 Some good work
Ward 5.5
Daniel 6 Some nice passes
Downey 5.5
What do you think?
Lia was better than this I thought make him at least a 6
Brown?........pretty invisible again,largely absent
Bertos....seems to have lost the edge to go past his man
Siggy better than this...did i see him bend a ball with the outside of his boot?
Not pretty football at times..some lack of cohesion but at this stage Ill take a point( shame it wasnt three) GO THE NIX
" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow
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Lia- Unfortunate injury, easily better than Ward and Brown. Got good cross in and works as a center midfielder.
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no too sure what Lia you were watching, he improved as the game went on but his first two or three touches with the ball he either passed to the opposition or lost it in the tackle - I'm as confused about people's love of Lia - he's much the same as Brown - but injury prone.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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Lia- Unfortunate injury, easily better than Ward and Brown. Got good cross in and works as a center midfielder.
.
no too sure what Lia you were watching, he improved as the game went on but his first two or three touches with the ball he either passed to the opposition or lost it in the tackle - I'm as confused about people's love of Lia - he's much the same as Brown - but injury prone.
I certainly wouldnt dream of arguing this one...bit In my opinion Lia is always far mor involved in a game than Tim brown and I dont see them as being any way alike
paullt2011-10-10 08:44:18" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow
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no too sure what Lia you were watching, he improved as the game went on but his first two or three touches with the ball he either passed to the opposition or lost it in the tackle - I'm as confused about people's love of Lia - he's much the same as Brown - but injury prone.
Lia's touch might sometimes be rough, but at least he gets a touch
I just watched the GC goal again. When James Brown picked up the ball, Tim stabbed out a leg towards him - missed - and then jogged slowly after him as the GC player charged forward. Really poor I thought. Mind you, I also noticed that the shot was certainly saveable. Patson's heroics kept us in the match, but he could have done better with that.
EDIT: Watching the match again, the other thing I noticed was how Sanchez always made sure he knew where the rest of the players were. You could see it in the goal. When he received the ball he ran straight into a gap without needing to look for it. Then he looked quickly to the right to check where Manny was making his run, and kept charging forward. A few seconds later he didn't need a second look before releasing the ball for Manny to cross.Binkley2011-10-10 09:07:49
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I'd give Brown a 3, probably 4 if he scored with that 1st half chance. i have to say he's not up to the standard, not only that, he was half-hearted right from the start of the game, so it wasn't a fitness issue.... i remember more than 3 times where GC lofted a high ball and dropped right on top of Brown's head, there was no GC player around him, yet he headed the ball straight back to a GC player, at least 3 times!! annoying to woatch.
Manny is a legend, no need to say more. Paston great, but if he's fit he would have at least try to save that ball...unlucky. Sanchez has touch, he's the sort of player we need, i think we need to start him together with Ward and dump Brown. In front we need Smith and Greeny together, Greeny is too isolated although strong in the air (but means nothing when you don't have a support runner) Bertos has lost his edge..didn't make much impact, but should give him some more chance. Injuries big big concern now...
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As much as I have idolised Tim Brown over the years, he's just not up to standard- well wasnt last night.
Headers to opposition players, way too casual on the ball
Not tracking back his man.
Its just not what I wanted to see- terrible commitment.
Should have scored that goal really, but he looked like he really wasnt bothered about it. Most players would have been on knees hands in face.
One incident that pissed me off was late on he got the ball close to touch with a man on him, he tried a very casual pass forwards that did not go anywhere but into the legs of the man on him, and it took him light years before he even realised this, and then sort of jogged his way, but not really.
We need manny in the middle, at right back, and on the flanks
Headers to opposition players, way too casual on the ball
Not tracking back his man.
Its just not what I wanted to see- terrible commitment.
Should have scored that goal really, but he looked like he really wasnt bothered about it. Most players would have been on knees hands in face.
One incident that pissed me off was late on he got the ball close to touch with a man on him, he tried a very casual pass forwards that did not go anywhere but into the legs of the man on him, and it took him light years before he even realised this, and then sort of jogged his way, but not really.
We need manny in the middle, at right back, and on the flanks
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I'd give Brown a 3, probably 4 if he scored with that 1st half chance. i have to say he's not up to the standard, not only that, he was half-hearted right from the start of the game, so it wasn't a fitness issue.... i remember more than 3 times where GC lofted a high ball and dropped right on top of Brown's head, there was no GC player around him, yet he headed the ball straight back to a GC player, at least 3 times!! annoying to woatch.
Manny is a legend, no need to say more. Paston great, but if he's fit he would have at least try to save that ball...unlucky. Sanchez has touch, he's the sort of player we need, i think we need to start him together with Ward and dump Brown. In front we need Smith and Greeny together, Greeny is too isolated although strong in the air (but means nothing when you don't have a support runner) Bertos has lost his edge..didn't make much impact, but should give him some more chance. Injuries big big concern now...So you want Greenie and Smith up front, start Ward and Sanchez, I assume you would pick Ifill and you are giving Bertos another chance, chuck in a keeper and you have 4 spots left.
Whose your ball winner and defensive midfielder in front of the back two?
You need to do some football maths.
Grumpy old bastard alert
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I'd give Brown a 3, probably 4 if he scored with that 1st half chance. i have to say he's not up to the standard, not only that, he was half-hearted right from the start of the game, so it wasn't a fitness issue.... i remember more than 3 times where GC lofted a high ball and dropped right on top of Brown's head, there was no GC player around him, yet he headed the ball straight back to a GC player, at least 3 times!! annoying to woatch.
Manny is a legend, no need to say more. Paston great, but if he's fit he would have at least try to save that ball...unlucky. Sanchez has touch, he's the sort of player we need, i think we need to start him together with Ward and dump Brown. In front we need Smith and Greeny together, Greeny is too isolated although strong in the air (but means nothing when you don't have a support runner) Bertos has lost his edge..didn't make much impact, but should give him some more chance. Injuries big big concern now...So you want Greenie and Smith up front, start Ward and Sanchez, I assume you would pick Ifill and you are giving Bertos another chance, chuck in a keeper and you have 4 spots left.
Whose your ball winner and defensive midfielder in front of the back two?
You need to do some football maths.
My point wasn't about exactly who's in the starting 11, giving Bertos chances doesn't mean starting him every week. it's more to do with our game play.
What i meant was,
- no point playing Greeny as a lone striker winning all the headers but with no one making the support run.
- no point keep playing Brown where he just plays not up to the standard and giving the ball cheaply, as a midfielder you primary job is to retain the ball then distribute. So IMO Ward and Sanchez would be at least a better combo.
- I would love to play Ifill every week, but then he's got injury problem. Re Bertos, he's lost his edge a bit going front, i want more time to assess him, probably drop him deeper to play as wing back as he did in AW games.
Ball possession is the key to Phoenix, for years we've strugged in that area and again that has costed us 2 points in the game against GC...
These are just my opinions, if you have better ideas i would love to hear it. No need to point your finger on me lol
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As much as I have idolised Tim Brown over the years, he's just not up to standard- well wasnt last night.
Headers to opposition players, way too casual on the ball
Not tracking back his man.
Its just not what I wanted to see- terrible commitment.
Should have scored that goal really, but he looked like he really wasnt bothered about it. Most players would have been on knees hands in face.
One incident that pissed me off was late on he got the ball close to touch with a man on him, he tried a very casual pass forwards that did not go anywhere but into the legs of the man on him, and it took him light years before he even realised this, and then sort of jogged his way, but not really.
We need manny in the middle, at right back, and on the flanks
Headers to opposition players, way too casual on the ball
Not tracking back his man.
Its just not what I wanted to see- terrible commitment.
Should have scored that goal really, but he looked like he really wasnt bothered about it. Most players would have been on knees hands in face.
One incident that pissed me off was late on he got the ball close to touch with a man on him, he tried a very casual pass forwards that did not go anywhere but into the legs of the man on him, and it took him light years before he even realised this, and then sort of jogged his way, but not really.
We need manny in the middle, at right back, and on the flanks
Questioning Tim's commitment is pretty ridiculous. It's been obvious over the years that commitment is one thing he doesn't lack. What he does lack is any pace or technical skill.
He was definitely behind the play all game but I'd prefer to put that down to the 14 hour flight and aging legs rather than a lack of commitment.
a.haak
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Perhaps Brownie needs a couple of games on the bench. Nothing like a lack of game-time to get a player hungry for work on the pitch.
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if i have to pick my starting 11 i would probably try this for our next home game...(although highly unlikely to happen)
Greeny Smith
Sanchez
Ifill Ward
Manny
Lockhead Downy
Dura Siggy
Paston
Bench: Lia, Bertos, Warner, Daniel
Bertos off the bench in the second half to run at tired defenders and see how he goes, but that means we drop both Brown and Lia...also means we might be a bit light defensively, but at least we gonna have a midfield capable of retaining and distributing the ball, all 4 of them. Then we have 2 strikers to run off each other. this gives us way more options up front, so hopefully our attack can help us defend.
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My point wasn't about exactly who's in the starting 11, giving Bertos chances doesn't mean starting him every week. it's more to do with our game play.
What i meant was,
- no point playing Greeny as a lone striker winning all the headers but with no one making the support run.
- no point keep playing Brown where he just plays not up to the standard and giving the ball cheaply, as a midfielder you primary job is to retain the ball then distribute. So IMO Ward and Sanchez would be at least a better combo.
- I would love to play Ifill every week, but then he's got injury problem. Re Bertos, he's lost his edge a bit going front, i want more time to assess him, probably drop him deeper to play as wing back as he did in AW games.
Ball possession is the key to Phoenix, for years we've strugged in that area and again that has costed us 2 points in the game against GC...
These are just my opinions, if you have better ideas i would love to hear it. No need to point your finger on me lol
I wasn't questioning your opinion, just your football maths. Your reasoning seems solid even if I disagree with it.
Grumpy old bastard alert
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if i have to pick my starting 11 i would probably try this for our next home game...(although highly unlikely to happen)
Greeny Smith
Sanchez
Ifill Ward
Manny
Lockhead Downy
Dura Siggy
Paston
Bench: Lia, Bertos, Warner, Daniel
Bertos off the bench in the second half to run at tired defenders and see how he goes, but that means we drop both Brown and Lia...also means we might be a bit light defensively, but at least we gonna have a midfield capable of retaining and distributing the ball, all 4 of them. Then we have 2 strikers to run off each other. this gives us way more options up front, so hopefully our attack can help us defend.
Also with Ward there, you have the option of dragging Sanchez or Ifill and moving Ward central so Bertos could roam. It gives you options.
The only thing is that I am not sold on Downey from what I saw in Tauranga. It might have been an off day but he looked dreadful. No doubt Muscat is a better right back but then he is also a better DM than the other 2.
I think that is possibly going to be Ricki's problem this year - what position to play Muscat in to give maximum value to the team
Grumpy old bastard alert
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Perhaps Brownie needs a couple of games on the bench. Nothing like a lack of game-time to get a player hungry for work on the pitch.
This. Worked for Siggy in that play off run when he had McKain and Durante paired.
How I so wish we had McKain now.
Grumpy old bastard alert
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As much as I have idolised Tim Brown over the years, he's just not up to standard- well wasnt last night.
I honestly don't think he has been the same player since the pre-world cup injury. Keeping him in the team no matter what is not helping.
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As much as I have idolised Tim Brown over the years, he's just not up to standard- well wasnt last night.
I honestly don't think he has been the same player since the pre-world cup injury. Keeping him in the team no matter what is not helping.
Unfortunately i think RH will play him every game as long as he's fit to play...as we've seen in the past....as others pointed out we need more competition for him surely...
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As much as I have idolised Tim Brown over the years, he's just not up to standard- well wasnt last night.
I honestly don't think he has been the same player since the pre-world cup injury. Keeping him in the team no matter what is not helping.
This. It looks like he's too afraid of getting hurt sometimes, he just won't play and commit himself to the game like he used to. Which is really a shame since I thought he had a fantastic 09/10 season.
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This is possibly the first time that Ricki is going to have to show that professionalism that he says he has when it comes to club v country. Effectively, he is the All White captain with Nelsen injured and not declaring how much longer will he go on. He is also VC at the nix so does Ricki have the minerals to drop his lieutenant who has been in all his teams the last 4 years?
Unlikely because there is no other midfield 'generals' (if I could use the term loosely) in the team that will fit in with the formation Ricki wants to play and thats traditionally 2 DMs.
Grumpy old bastard alert
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Yip maybe questioning his commitment isnt right, because thats one thing hes been all about over the years.
But last night it was like he didnt really care, wasnt hungry for the ball, and didnt look like he gave his shot much effort.
Time on the bench would definitely do him good. Unfortunately, with Lia out, we are going to just as much of Brown on the pitch (which isnt much anyway).
But last night it was like he didnt really care, wasnt hungry for the ball, and didnt look like he gave his shot much effort.
Time on the bench would definitely do him good. Unfortunately, with Lia out, we are going to just as much of Brown on the pitch (which isnt much anyway).
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As much as I have idolised Tim Brown over the years, he's just not up to standard- well wasnt last night.
Headers to opposition players, way too casual on the ball
Not tracking back his man.
Its just not what I wanted to see- terrible commitment.
Should have scored that goal really, but he looked like he really wasnt bothered about it. Most players would have been on knees hands in face.
One incident that pissed me off was late on he got the ball close to touch with a man on him, he tried a very casual pass forwards that did not go anywhere but into the legs of the man on him, and it took him light years before he even realised this, and then sort of jogged his way, but not really.
We need manny in the middle, at right back, and on the flanks
Headers to opposition players, way too casual on the ball
Not tracking back his man.
Its just not what I wanted to see- terrible commitment.
Should have scored that goal really, but he looked like he really wasnt bothered about it. Most players would have been on knees hands in face.
One incident that pissed me off was late on he got the ball close to touch with a man on him, he tried a very casual pass forwards that did not go anywhere but into the legs of the man on him, and it took him light years before he even realised this, and then sort of jogged his way, but not really.
We need manny in the middle, at right back, and on the flanks
Questioning Tim's commitment is pretty ridiculous. It's been obvious over the years that commitment is one thing he doesn't lack. What he does lack is any pace or technical skill.
He was definitely behind the play all game but I'd prefer to put that down to the 14 hour flight and aging legs rather than a lack of commitment.
Didnt chase as hard last night, so maybe, being generous, that is correct, and would also account for his giving the ball away a fair bit, brain was in the clouds
Play him at home only then !!
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I've always backed Tim, but can agree he's not a skilfull as I'd like him to be. But this man-love for Lia is ludicrous, he is injury prone, horrid on defence and gives away penalties way too easily and his first touch is woeful. With him in midfield we lose the flow of the game, with Brown going missing that leaves the middle of the park way too easy to get through for the opposition. Drop both of them for mine, put manny in there for defensive duties and ward as your attacking option playing bertos and Ifill wide.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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Id have manny holding, sanchez in front, and one of ward or smith in the middle as well.
Then youve got ifill, bertos/ward out wide. And Greeny or Smith up top.
Im not sure on Smith's defensive abilities, but sanchez can get back and defend from what I have seen in preseason, and either way, both would be more visible than Brown.
At least Lia can provide a bit of creativity/ delivery into box. And last night he looked like he cared, unlike timmy
Then youve got ifill, bertos/ward out wide. And Greeny or Smith up top.
Im not sure on Smith's defensive abilities, but sanchez can get back and defend from what I have seen in preseason, and either way, both would be more visible than Brown.
At least Lia can provide a bit of creativity/ delivery into box. And last night he looked like he cared, unlike timmy
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At least Lia can provide a bit of creativity/ delivery into box. And last night he looked like he cared, unlike timmy
if he can hold onto the ball, he gets annoyed at himsaelf whichis great but from what I've seen he spends the whole game frustrated at himself cos he's lost the ball, then he makes a rash challenge and gets penalised.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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At least Lia can provide a bit of creativity/ delivery into box. And last night he looked like he cared, unlike timmy
if he can hold onto the ball, he gets annoyed at himsaelf whichis great but from what I've seen he spends the whole game frustrated at himself cos he's lost the ball, then he makes a rash challenge and gets penalised.
do you even think at all before you post because you have seemed to make a fair bit up. youve let your imagination go a bit. people thinking tim doesnt care is a load of jack, hes shown hes a passionate player. everyone just seems to throw out names when they are grieving over what could have been an away win. this is how i saw it. the team played hard the 1st half and looked like scoring several times. injuries set in and we lost fluency and our defence didnt provide decent balls in the second half. we drew on a fantastic strike from brown which is straight bad luck. paston played great also. bring on newcastle
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watch the first 15 minutes of the game again, keep an eye out for the three or four touches Lia gets in that time, each one he loses to the opposition - one he even passes to the opposing player!
Queenslander 3x a year.
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I thought LIa was ok and Brown for the first 15 was involved but died off terribly.
We can not afford to carry players this year. We simply do not have the quality in the team to cover awol players.
Bertos seems to lack confidence which w need him to have. We need him and Ifill running at the opposition and getting in behind them.
If we do have a few injuries and players out for a while i would love to see Ricki bring in a couple young guys who have pace and lack fear and will die to get noticed and maybe pick up a contract for next year.
If brown gets dropped i'll be amazed - didn't happen last year when he was sh*te, why wuld it happen this year?
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teams that make playoffs cant carry players at all if we didnt make finals and got wooden spoon youd have an arguement
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I've always backed Tim, but can agree he's not a skilfull as I'd like him to be. But this man-love for Lia is ludicrous, he is injury prone, horrid on defence and gives away penalties way too easily and his first touch is woeful. With him in midfield we lose the flow of the game, with Brown going missing that leaves the middle of the park way too easy to get through for the opposition. Drop both of them for mine, put manny in there for defensive duties and ward as your attacking option playing bertos and Ifill wide.
+1. Disappointing for Brown, but Lia is quite the thug and I've never understood Ricki's soft spot for him, ever.
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We have all had seasons to form our views on Brown and Lia yet it amazes me how some think they will miraculously be better this season - they are what they are, and for some that may be good enough.
My concern for the next few seasons is Herbert's sentimentality getting in the way of letting players go who are at or past their best by dates (i.e. getting old, relatively speaking) but that's angst for another day.
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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i think lia still has room to improve, whereas brown doesnt, and thats my biggest argument.
I think he had a season off from injury, and still does have room to improve. So in a sense I think he could get better over the seasons, even more if there are more tehcnical players along side him.
I think he had a season off from injury, and still does have room to improve. So in a sense I think he could get better over the seasons, even more if there are more tehcnical players along side him.
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