R5 vs Western Sydney Wanderers | Friday 7th Nov | 7:30pm | ROF

another one.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/nov/11/a-league-tactics-why-wellington-phoenix-are-a-threat?CMP=share_btn_tw

Kate is the same author as the Leopold Method article. She is pretty decent at analysing games.

Sigmund moves across to RB, leaving Muscat at LB, bring in Boxall at CB.

1. Boxall is with the AW's

2. I do not want to see Siggy at right back ever again

interesting analysis..a bit more technical that what we normally read...

Hey LeSinge, copy it into the other thread (the one for the Adelaide game).

I love toasted sandwiches!

Yeah, in my day it was "cmon lads, lets get stuck in and show them what for"

"The team was struggling and Morgan believed it was then-coach Ricki Herbert’s defensive and direct style of football that was keeping the fans away. “You’re not going to win the A-League by being the best defensive team,” Morgan said. (Let’s ignore the fact that the last five teams to top the table come season’s end boasted the best defensive record in the competition.)"

Bonavacia a "false midfielder"?  Now I really have heard it all.

Just like Manny is a false goalkeeper

And Brockie a false striker.

I hate all these terms like 'false 9' etc etc. Its just bollocks to try to give some kind of context to positions that do not exist. Its easier than saying 'back to the goal target man' or attacking midfielder or attacker that can defend.

^ Agree. It's a bit like saying the entire Dutch team of the seventies were a team of falsies because they could easily swap positions.

Wrong thread

Pretty sure there are a few False Supportters on here from time to time

Ah, no. 

A false thread.

comedy gold

fool's gold.

This was my first 'Nix game in about 12 months. I've always been a 'follower' but not a 'fan' - interested in how they go but not worried if they lose. Early experiences when the 'Nix were new and when they made their first playoffs put me off...but I must say that the YF fans I talked to, the atmosphere of the game and the post-match celebrations at Bethel Woods certainly gave me a new interest in the team and the trappings surrounding being more involved. 

There is a maturity and a sense of occasion about it tempered with hardcore fans willing to chat to a 'non-believer' about the whole set up.

Great experience and keen to keep the involvement going.

Curious as to the reason why you haven't been willing to be a 'fan' for the last few years - is it a EuroSnob problem? Or just the atmosphere of the games?

Literally the only reason i'd want to live in Wellington again is to be able to see the Nix more regularly. Have always been a big Arsenal supporter too but nothing compares to having a team that's truly 'yours' and not thousands of km's away.

I imagine getting viewed as that turns off fans of the game from being fans of the 'Nix. Leigh, I'm sorry if I have been a detriment to you being a 'Nix fan.

:P

Edit: Non school night games help.

So LeighboNZ.  How does a Eurosnob, plastic c*nt sleep at night?

(Answer:  I sleep very well thank you very much)

The way I see it, anyone who refuses to come to a Nix game because "the quality of football is shit compared to Europe" is a Eurosnob. Anybody who comes along to a Nix game to get behind and support the Nix, no matter how much they like watching European football, is not a Eurosnob. 

FWIW - I'm pretty sure Junior82's post above was completely tongue in cheek (unless it was part of the 5%).

It's been a very interesting perspective to see that so many people following the 'Nix (well, people posting here, so by definition.....) arrive at that same point from so many different angles.  I have no argument with any of the above, merely my own perspective.

I grew up in continental Europe and when I was a small boy my Dad (on many occasions both my parents) would take me along to the local game of the mighty Pogon Szczecin (don't even try pronouncing that, I am a pro). I followed it all through my teens and beyond, but as I left Europe in 1982 and lived Down Under ever since, I could not possibly continue to relate to the club of my city of birth in the same way - there is simply no connection or familiarity anymore.  For the very same reason I would find it impossible to "adopt" a team abroad, be it EPL or La Liga or wherever, because I would have no emotional link to it either.

While living in Sydney 1983-1993 it was only natural to follow a local club, in my case Sydney City under the late great Eddie Thomson. But that would not make me follow WSW or Syd FC today; simply because I left Sydney for Christchurch in 1993, well before they were formed, and after Sydney City folded. In contrast, I support the Nix because it is my local A-League club, even if it is in Wellington and I live in ChCh, because it is the local club for all New Zealanders, and I am one by now (after 21 years here and counting). They may occasionally play like Barcelona. They may occasionally play like pants. The former makes me proud and happy, the latter makes me sick to the stomach and depressed. Neither of these lessen the emotional connection.

If we ever by some incredible turn of fortunes end up having an A-League club here in Christchurch, it would not test my loyalty to the Nix but it would certainly add a very strong reason to go and see all local games. So ... I guess I would then become a bit like those people religiously following an EPL team while attending all Phoenix games, if you follow my convoluted hypothetical reasoning.

I think Leigh's point is that what was intended, and/or how the regular faithful see chant, and the attitude is not the point. 

It is how it feels to be on the receiving end, and the message for all of us is, I think, it can feel a bit shit, and whether we mean it to put people off or not, it can put people off.

So the lesson is, yes, venting might well be justified; and a tongue in cheek chant might seem funny to us, and the truth of the situation might be ... blah blah blah WAHTEVER. 

The most important thing is we _ALL_ want the casual semi-interested follower to become a regualr attendee.

So - it doesn't matter how our actions seem TO US. What matters is how our actiosn seem to THEM.

If our actions put them off, and Leigh's testimony seems to indicate that for at least some they (at least sometimes) do, then perhaps we need to stop and take stock and think about the impact of what we do. 

Is the actual result what we want? 

If not - then:

1. no matter how defensible, or logical our actions and words might seem to US, .. and/or 

2. no matter how unjustified or irrational the reaction might seem from our point of view, 

we need to change what we are doing.

Re-read Leigh's comments, and try and put aside how YOU feel, and read them as a window into how someone on the outside looking in felt. It's a very very valuable insight Leigh has shared with us. Thanks Leigh for taking the time to stick your head up above the tranches and do so.

It was nice talking to you at Bethel Woods last Friday. I really hope we get to celebrate more wins together.

I think that's pretty immature to be honest.  Some people go to the game and pay money to watch the players do extraordinary things happen, things they can't do themselves.  If the team isn't playing good football then for some people they don't want to pay the money, and that's a perfectly reasonable stance.  Other people go for other reasons, they like the atmosphere or the occasion and the football on display is secondary - so for those people what actually happens on the pitch is secondary.  This Eurosnob thing really is pretty bullshit

Spot on Patrick.

I've followed Spurs for over 40 years and Toon for a bit less. I was never expecting much when I went to my first Nix game (and was't actually proved wrong), but there is nothing that beats following your (sh!t) team because of whatever connection you feel with it.  The fever were in part responsible (although we've never really associated with the zone), but if I was to think that the FZ should dictate how I feel about the Nix then I probably wouldn't have been coming back for all these seasons.

So as a Eurosnob, plastic c*nt I sleep very well at night (mostly because I can't be arsed getting up at 2:30 am to watch my other teams lose).

How did this thread get off course? New thread pethaps....reasons to be cheerful?

What I think the last few post show is that people support/watch teams (or don't) for various reasons. And also highlights the difficulties the Phoenix have in trying to get a regular 10,000 crowd to attend. While winning clearly matters, are these people likely to turn into season pass holders. Some will, but most won't.

Personally I've always felt uncomfortable about the 'where we're you when we were shit' chant. If somewhere near me that I knew tried to start it, I'd like to think I would get them to pull their head in. But unfortunately you can't control anyway, as much as an Elite group would like to.

I think the other factor is that the quality of the A League has got better, but a lot of people who were put off years ago haven't seen the quality improve. Things like WSW winning the ACL and us and Sydney beating West Ham, players like Villa and ADP playing in it, the size of crowds in the Melbourne and Sydney derbies, all point to a league that's delivering better quality entertainment for the casual viewer than it did in its early days