I'm hating when club people seem to do cartwheels when we might be able to finish up scraping into the top six only a third of the way through the season
I've said this for ages too. We treat "the six" like it is all the same as if there is no difference between 1st and 6th...6th is still the bottom half.
he got how many points off the top six we are wrong
Founder
like it or not the nix has to do better than the average aussie team to justify its place in the comp. How's that going? While not popular with FANatics sad to say that instead of demanding 4th as minimum the club sees existing as a minimum and 6th as successful. You will not find any aussie based club with such lowly goals.
The good news is we can at least play 1st half football, just need to fix that 2nd half play.
Mr Positive
If we are not aiming to be the Win the league when once in a blue Moon it is not a Sydney or Melbourne team or even Brisbane, we may as well fold the club.
Yes it is difficult and the odds are stacked against an outside team doing so, but it does happen, ie Jets, Adelaide, CCM, and when it does we do not want to be languishing in 6th or even 4th place, with next to no chance.
It just reeks of lack of ambition to be talking about a mid table finish, be that 4th, 5th or 6th.
If we are not aiming to be the Win the league when once in a blue Moon it is not a Sydney or Melbourne team or even Brisbane, we may as well fold the club.
Yes it is difficult and the odds are stacked against an outside team doing so, but it does happen, ie Jets, Adelaide, CCM, and when it does we do not want to be languishing in 6th or even 4th place, with next to no chance.
It just reeks of lack of ambition to be talking about a mid table finish, be that 4th, 5th or 6th.
I'd be happy with 4th +/- 3
Right now we are 7th +/- 3
Phoenix report card "Happy to just be involved. Lacks ambition and hard nose attitude required to succeed."
What did you expect him to do? Dump on the club in the press, and then leave and try to get another job?
He did exactly what every other classy professional would do: take full responsibility publicly, but be prepared to explain in details the real story behind close doors, when and if asked. He might have had that discussion when talking to Newcastle owners, but would not want it to be aired.
Whatever you think of Merrick as a coach, you can't say he is an inconsiderate fool.
Fair enough, I was still fuming about last Sunday game and did not focus on your exact words. Much easier to scream with my eyes closed.
Yes, he did say it was his own responsibility, and he might have expected more of himself to deliver. He probably feels validated somewhat now that he is leading the Jets up the table.
After several rounds of Des and Greenie, and several rounds of Darije, and with more quality players on board, I begin to agree with others that it might be the head office, and possibly also our ageing captain who is unable to keep up with demands of the fast game in HAL.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
If we are not aiming to be the Win the league when once in a blue Moon it is not a Sydney or Melbourne team or even Brisbane, we may as well fold the club.
Yes it is difficult and the odds are stacked against an outside team doing so, but it does happen, ie Jets, Adelaide, CCM, and when it does we do not want to be languishing in 6th or even 4th place, with next to no chance.
It just reeks of lack of ambition to be talking about a mid table finish, be that 4th, 5th or 6th.
I'm sure every season Melbourne Victory and Sydney City always aim to make the top 6, it'll be their target too! - Yeah, Right. I have banged on about it for a few years, we need to be aiming for number ONE.
Why should I attend the the next home game Vs Sydney FC on 23 December? I don't have a valid answer...
Because you spent a large amount of money as a season ticket holder to attend these games... Not going just seems like a huge waste of money
I'm a season ticket holder and I often can't attend due to work. I maintain my season ticket as I want the club to know I still support them even when I can't attend and I want to keep my seat that I've had since 2007.
Why should I attend the the next home game Vs Sydney FC on 23 December? I don't have a valid answer...
Because you spent a large amount of money as a season ticket holder to attend these games... Not going just seems like a huge waste of money
I'm a season ticket holder and I often can't attend due to work. I maintain my season ticket as I want the club to know I still support them even when I can't attend and I want to keep my seat that I've had since 2007.
I think that's quite different to not going because your toys have come out over the teams recent form.
Three for me, and two for them.
Why should I attend the the next home game Vs Sydney FC on 23 December? I don't have a valid answer...
Because you spent a large amount of money as a season ticket holder to attend these games... Not going just seems like a huge waste of money
I'm a season ticket holder and I often can't attend due to work. I maintain my season ticket as I want the club to know I still support them even when I can't attend and I want to keep my seat that I've had since 2007.
I missed you last season...and last Saturday but Vicks was there to get depressed on your behalf. But to be honest, those two headed goals were worth the price of admission anyway.
If the on-field problems and management problems overlap, it is pretty dire.
It is harder to change the off-field issues. But regarding on-field, if it has to do with how Dura manages the team on-field positioning, barking orders, while also trying himself to defend, who should take over from him as captain if he is benched?
I know Krishna normally takes over the armband, but it is hard to captain the team effectively from the front line. And neither Italiano not Keegan-Smith are able to lead the team the way Moss did in Dura's absence.
While I am not trying to create another dumb theory, it maybe linked to the on-field leadership "under fire". However, I cannot think of any other long-term player except Krishna and maybe McGlinchey that have been with Phoenix for long enough and would be respected enough to replace Dura as captain. I look forward to others sharing their opinion on this.
What did you expect him to do? Dump on the club in the press, and then leave and try to get another job?
He did exactly what every other classy professional would do: take full responsibility publicly, but be prepared to explain in details the real story behind close doors, when and if asked. He might have had that discussion when talking to Newcastle owners, but would not want it to be aired.
Whatever you think of Merrick as a coach, you can't say he is an inconsiderate fool.
The problem is we have direct quotes from Merrick but they don't back your opinion so you've made something up, there is proof on one hand and supposition on the other.
One of the issues that people seem to have is recruitment, the idea being that Merrick had no control over who he got yet we've seen recruitment has changed quite drastically with the change in the coaching team so obviously the coach has a very large say in who we hire. (add into it the fact that we've suddenly got players related to the coaching team, from the same part of the world as the coaching team, and have previously played for the coaching team shows that obviously the coaches have selected those players).
The team which Merrick quit was his team that he'd had four years to build.
Even if the backroom is a mess the Phoenix have the budget to be competitive (or at least not last) and facility to be successful.
The backroom is located several kilometers away and Dome has said before that he hardly ever goes to the training. Even if things are a mess a good manager and team leadership group will keep the politics away from the team and them focused, heck I remember Brisbane winning games when they weren't being paid same with CCM the year they won the championship.
From my perspective we recruited badly in the year that we were almost booted out of the competition (which was understandable), recruited better last season but had too many players competing for certain positions and couldn't put our best team on the park, and recruited quite well this season in most positions but the rest of the league recruited better.
If the on-field problems and management problems overlap, it is pretty dire.
It is harder to change the off-field issues. But regarding on-field, if it has to do with how Dura manages the team on-field positioning, barking orders, while also trying himself to defend, who should take over from him as captain if he is benched?
I know Krishna normally takes over the armband, but it is hard to captain the team effectively from the front line. And neither Italiano not Keegan-Smith are able to lead the team the way Moss did in Dura's absence.
While I am not trying to create another dumb theory, it maybe linked to the on-field leadership "under fire". However, I cannot think of any other long-term player except Krishna and maybe McGlinchey that have been with Phoenix for long enough and would be respected enough to replace Dura as captain. I look forward to others sharing their opinion on this.
Yeah, I have a feeling that over the last couple of years we've done quite well without the All Whites in the squad it would be interesting if someone with a spreadsheet of results could prove or disprove this hypothesis.
Dura works the backline all day
He cries at the aftermatch
Whispering "Help me, Darije..."
I'm hating when club people seem to do cartwheels when we might be able to finish up scraping into the top six only a third of the way through the season
I've said this for ages too. We treat "the six" like it is all the same as if there is no difference between 1st and 6th...6th is still the bottom half.
Indeed. Scraping sixth and losing the first play off game is construed as a successful season by many at the club I suspect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone
Someone should tell Darije and Rado because they've been talking about winning it since day one.
Now, I may be ignorant, but what we're saying is that at the Nix the board are making player recruitment decisions without reference to the coach? That puts those "Darije built this squad himself, he has to answer for it" comments to rest.
There is a footballing committee which makes those decisions and the coach is in that committee.
Also I think we were saying that Merrick not the squad.
That committee is a failure
Holy shark. Pretty sure I was a ball boy at this match
Dome also said: We are not far of the top six. Fact is we are far away, we are last on the ladder because we are not getting points. We should have won a 3 and 2:0 lead and THEN we would be 5th place, with one in hand to go into the the top four. 8 games one win 5 losses, I think this is a concerning trend and he is overly optimistic.
I disagree. We are 5 points off 6th with a game in hand. If we can get into form through the second half of the season we can make the playoffs. From there, anything can happen.
We can in THEORY If, when, then. Last year same year discussions. We play well, players have to click, we are waiting for them to click, keep up the good work we will win. It was shark show and we lost against the worst opponents. They must show it. They must admit that they can’t win, then try to fix it and di not wait for the click.
From the Dome interview on the radio this morning: Dome says he's not worried about the Phoenix's poor attendance this season, as all of the A-League clubs are struggling.
There we go again, "its ok that we're crap because other teams are crap too" FFS get real and stop making excuses for mediocrity.....
The actual quote is "that's a huge concern for us".
Did he also not say team was 50% right..scoring goals. Could still be 100% wrong if other team always scores more.
A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen
What did you expect him to do? Dump on the club in the press, and then leave and try to get another job?
He did exactly what every other classy professional would do: take full responsibility publicly, but be prepared to explain in details the real story behind close doors, when and if asked. He might have had that discussion when talking to Newcastle owners, but would not want it to be aired.
Whatever you think of Merrick as a coach, you can't say he is an inconsiderate fool.
The problem is we have direct quotes from Merrick but they don't back your opinion so you've made something up, there is proof on one hand and supposition on the other.
(---)
Bullshark. Read my post. I clearly said that Merrick took the responsibility for team's performance in public when he quit. I said he MIGHT HAVE HAD a discussion about any other factors which may have contributed to his record with the Nix (like the board etc) outside of the public ear like say a job interview. Yes it was my supposition, absolutely, and I clearly identified it as such. This is different from "making something up". I assume you see the difference between these two things, in plain English.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
What did you expect him to do? Dump on the club in the press, and then leave and try to get another job?
He did exactly what every other classy professional would do: take full responsibility publicly, but be prepared to explain in details the real story behind close doors, when and if asked. He might have had that discussion when talking to Newcastle owners, but would not want it to be aired.
Whatever you think of Merrick as a coach, you can't say he is an inconsiderate fool.
The problem is we have direct quotes from Merrick but they don't back your opinion so you've made something up, there is proof on one hand and supposition on the other.
(---)
Bullshark. Read my post. I clearly said that Merrick took the responsibility for team's performance in public when he quit. I said he MIGHT HAVE HAD a discussion about any other factors which may have contributed to his record with the Nix (like the board etc) outside of the public ear like say a job interview. Yes it was my supposition, absolutely, and I clearly identified it as such. This is different from "making something up". I assume you see the difference between these two things, in plain English.
You said if and might have when talking about Newcastle not the Phoenix. Maybe dial back on the condescension.
Why should I attend the the next home game Vs Sydney FC on 23 December? I don't have a valid answer...
Because you spent a large amount of money as a season ticket holder to attend these games... Not going just seems like a huge waste of money
I'm a season ticket holder and I often can't attend due to work. I maintain my season ticket as I want the club to know I still support them even when I can't attend and I want to keep my seat that I've had since 2007.
Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn
If the on-field problems and management problems overlap, it is pretty dire.
It is harder to change the off-field issues. But regarding on-field, if it has to do with how Dura manages the team on-field positioning, barking orders, while also trying himself to defend, who should take over from him as captain if he is benched?
I know Krishna normally takes over the armband, but it is hard to captain the team effectively from the front line. And neither Italiano not Keegan-Smith are able to lead the team the way Moss did in Dura's absence.
While I am not trying to create another dumb theory, it maybe linked to the on-field leadership "under fire". However, I cannot think of any other long-term player except Krishna and maybe McGlinchey that have been with Phoenix for long enough and would be respected enough to replace Dura as captain. I look forward to others sharing their opinion on this.
Yeah, I have a feeling that over the last couple of years we've done quite well without the All Whites in the squad it would be interesting if someone with a spreadsheet of results could prove or disprove this hypothesis.
In the last two seasons, there have been five matches where Doyle, McGlinchey and Durante were away for All Whites duty:
2016/17
· Round 1 - 1-0 loss to Melbourne City (home)
· Round 6 - 2-0 win over Central Coast (away)
· Round 24 - 5-0 win over Newcastle Jets (home)
2017/18
· Round 1 - 1-1 draw with Adelaide (home)
· Round 6 - 5-2 win over Perth (home)
There was also one other game last season where neither Durante or McGlinchey played for other reasons:
· Round 20 - 5-1 loss to Melbourne City (home)
Glen Moss played in the round 1 match last season but didn't play in rounds 6 or 24.
It's also worth noting that Durante has missed 9 matches since the beginning of last season, Mcglinchey has missed 16, and Doyle has missed 12. The W-D-L record for Durante's missed games is 3-2-4, McGlinchey's is 5-5-6, and Doyle's is 6-1-5
What did you expect him to do? Dump on the club in the press, and then leave and try to get another job?
He did exactly what every other classy professional would do: take full responsibility publicly, but be prepared to explain in details the real story behind close doors, when and if asked. He might have had that discussion when talking to Newcastle owners, but would not want it to be aired.
Whatever you think of Merrick as a coach, you can't say he is an inconsiderate fool.
The problem is we have direct quotes from Merrick but they don't back your opinion so you've made something up, there is proof on one hand and supposition on the other.
(---)
Bullshark. Read my post. I clearly said that Merrick took the responsibility for team's performance in public when he quit. I said he MIGHT HAVE HAD a discussion about any other factors which may have contributed to his record with the Nix (like the board etc) outside of the public ear like say a job interview. Yes it was my supposition, absolutely, and I clearly identified it as such. This is different from "making something up". I assume you see the difference between these two things, in plain English.
You said if and might have when talking about Newcastle not the Phoenix. Maybe dial back on the condescension.
OK, fair enough. I did say that about Newcastle, in context of what he might say in private when applying for a new job.
I see your point, apology for being a primadonna.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
Now, I may be ignorant, but what we're saying is that at the Nix the board are making player recruitment decisions without reference to the coach? That puts those "Darije built this squad himself, he has to answer for it" comments to rest.
There is a footballing committee which makes those decisions and the coach is in that committee.
Also I think we were saying that Merrick not the squad.
That committee is a failure
I could swear that was matchfixing.
Now, I may be ignorant, but what we're saying is that at the Nix the board are making player recruitment decisions without reference to the coach? That puts those "Darije built this squad himself, he has to answer for it" comments to rest.
There is a footballing committee which makes those decisions and the coach is in that committee.
Also I think we were saying that Merrick not the squad.
That committee is a failure
I could swear that was matchfixing.
It's a shocker all right. When was this and what team was he playing for - his own or the opposition? BTW, who won?
Now, I may be ignorant, but what we're saying is that at the Nix the board are making player recruitment decisions without reference to the coach? That puts those "Darije built this squad himself, he has to answer for it" comments to rest.
There is a footballing committee which makes those decisions and the coach is in that committee.
Also I think we were saying that Merrick not the squad.
That committee is a failure
I could swear that was matchfixing.
It's a shocker all right. When was this and what team was he playing for - his own or the opposition? BTW, who won? (Sorry, seems to have posted twice.)
If the on-field problems and management problems overlap, it is pretty dire.
It is harder to change the off-field issues. But regarding on-field, if it has to do with how Dura manages the team on-field positioning, barking orders, while also trying himself to defend, who should take over from him as captain if he is benched?
I know Krishna normally takes over the armband, but it is hard to captain the team effectively from the front line. And neither Italiano not Keegan-Smith are able to lead the team the way Moss did in Dura's absence.
While I am not trying to create another dumb theory, it maybe linked to the on-field leadership "under fire". However, I cannot think of any other long-term player except Krishna and maybe McGlinchey that have been with Phoenix for long enough and would be respected enough to replace Dura as captain. I look forward to others sharing their opinion on this.
Yeah, I have a feeling that over the last couple of years we've done quite well without the All Whites in the squad it would be interesting if someone with a spreadsheet of results could prove or disprove this hypothesis.
In the last two seasons, there have been five matches where Doyle, McGlinchey and Durante were away for All Whites duty:
2016/17
· Round 1 - 1-0 loss to Melbourne City (home)
· Round 6 - 2-0 win over Central Coast (away)
· Round 24 - 5-0 win over Newcastle Jets (home)
2017/18
· Round 1 - 1-1 draw with Adelaide (home)
· Round 6 - 5-2 win over Perth (home)
There was also one other game last season where neither Durante or McGlinchey played for other reasons:
· Round 20 - 5-1 loss to Melbourne City (home)
Glen Moss played in the round 1 match last season but didn't play in rounds 6 or 24.
It's also worth noting that Durante has missed 9 matches since the beginning of last season, Mcglinchey has missed 16, and Doyle has missed 12. The W-D-L record for Durante's missed games is 3-2-4, McGlinchey's is 5-5-6, and Doyle's is 6-1-5
Pretty interesting and not much can be read into those numbers IMO. I guess the win ratio with the All Whites in the squad is higher than the average for the Phoenix.
Now, I may be ignorant, but what we're saying is that at the Nix the board are making player recruitment decisions without reference to the coach? That puts those "Darije built this squad himself, he has to answer for it" comments to rest.
There is a footballing committee which makes those decisions and the coach is in that committee.
Also I think we were saying that Merrick not the squad.
That committee is a failure
I could swear that was matchfixing.
It's a shocker all right. When was this and what team was he playing for - his own or the opposition? BTW, who won? (Sorry, seems to have posted twice.)
Not sure what year - but this is Noah playing for Central, he is attacking this goal at Kiwitea Street. Not sure who won or who they are playing. My second favourite part of this video is the woeful offside trap number 5 seems to try and play right at the beginning of the vid.
Now, I may be ignorant, but what we're saying is that at the Nix the board are making player recruitment decisions without reference to the coach? That puts those "Darije built this squad himself, he has to answer for it" comments to rest.
There is a footballing committee which makes those decisions and the coach is in that committee.
Also I think we were saying that Merrick not the squad.
That committee is a failure
I could swear that was matchfixing.
It's a shocker all right. When was this and what team was he playing for - his own or the opposition? BTW, who won? (Sorry, seems to have posted twice.)
Not sure what year - but this is Noah playing for Central, he is attacking this goal at Kiwitea Street. Not sure who won or who they are playing. My second favourite part of this video is the woeful offside trap number 5 seems to try and play right at the beginning of the vid.
Saw an interview with Noah and they showed him this. He said the keeper gave him a massive serve along the lines of "if you're gonna make me look like a fudgeing mug, just kick the ball in the fudgeing goal after" or something to that effect.
Now, I may be ignorant, but what we're saying is that at the Nix the board are making player recruitment decisions without reference to the coach? That puts those "Darije built this squad himself, he has to answer for it" comments to rest.
There is a footballing committee which makes those decisions and the coach is in that committee.
Also I think we were saying that Merrick not the squad.
That committee is a failure
I could swear that was matchfixing.
It's a shocker all right. When was this and what team was he playing for - his own or the opposition? BTW, who won? (Sorry, seems to have posted twice.)
Not sure what year - but this is Noah playing for Central, he is attacking this goal at Kiwitea Street. Not sure who won or who they are playing. My second favourite part of this video is the woeful offside trap number 5 seems to try and play right at the beginning of the vid.
I’m absolutely certain that this clip was on a UK video called Football Hell presented by Nick Hancock. Probably from the early-mid 90s?
Edit - it’s mentioned here! More like late 90s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone
Dome also said: We are not far of the top six. Fact is we are far away, we are last on the ladder because we are not getting points. We should have won a 3 and 2:0 lead and THEN we would be 5th place, with one in hand to go into the the top four. 8 games one win 5 losses, I think this is a concerning trend and he is overly optimistic.
I disagree. We are 5 points off 6th with a game in hand. If we can get into form through the second half of the season we can make the playoffs. From there, anything can happen.
We can in THEORY If, when, then. Last year same year discussions. We play well, players have to click, we are waiting for them to click, keep up the good work we will win. It was shark show and we lost against the worst opponents. They must show it. They must admit that they can’t win, then try to fix it and di not wait for the click.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
The owners / managements increasingly apparent position is we are aiming to be in the top 6 in a 10 team competition . Better than 6th would be really nice, but 6th is the aim. That is reinforced by Domes recent comments. Ie we are not far off the top 6.
Reality is we are last.
An ambitious owner/management would have bluntly stated the last three seasons have been unacceptable and so are the current results , stated the aim for this season -to win- and then told us how they hope to acheive it.
The owners / managements increasingly apparent position is we are aiming to be in the top 6 in a 10 team competition . Better than 6th would be really nice, but 6th is the aim. That is reinforced by Domes recent comments. Ie we are not far off the top 6.
Reality is we are last.
An ambitious owner/management would have bluntly stated the last three seasons have been unacceptable and so are the current results , stated the aim for this season -to win- and then told us how they hope to acheive it.
I hear Nathan Tinkler and Clive Palmer are currently still available
#ambitiousowners
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
Dome also said: We are not far of the top six. Fact is we are far away, we are last on the ladder because we are not getting points. We should have won a 3 and 2:0 lead and THEN we would be 5th place, with one in hand to go into the the top four. 8 games one win 5 losses, I think this is a concerning trend and he is overly optimistic.
I disagree. We are 5 points off 6th with a game in hand. If we can get into form through the second half of the season we can make the playoffs. From there, anything can happen.
We can in THEORY If, when, then. Last year same year discussions. We play well, players have to click, we are waiting for them to click, keep up the good work we will win. It was shark show and we lost against the worst opponents. They must show it. They must admit that they can’t win, then try to fix it and di not wait for the click.
Yep, the reality is that we win the odd game because we've got some decent players but we generally fold in games when the pressure is on, or it actually means something and we need a result
Normo's coming home
(----)
Yep, the reality is that we win the odd game because we've got some decent players but we generally fold in games when the pressure is on, or it actually means something and we need a result
This. My impression is that it got actually worse lately.
In some ways, the second half against Brisbane or Victory was similar to the whole game we had against the Jets or against the CCM where we found it hard to cope with close marking, speed, accurate passing and man-on-man pressure.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
(----)
Yep, the reality is that we win the odd game because we've got some decent players but we generally fold in games when the pressure is on, or it actually means something and we need a result
This. My impression is that it got actually worse lately.
In some ways, the second half against Brisbane or Victory was similar to the whole game we had against the Jets or against the CCM where we found it hard to cope with close marking, speed, accurate passing and man-on-man pressure.
I noticed it particularly under Des and greenie, we'd string a couple of results together then have to win something to get back to the 6 then we'd fold
Normo's coming home
(----)
Yep, the reality is that we win the odd game because we've got some decent players but we generally fold in games when the pressure is on, or it actually means something and we need a result
This. My impression is that it got actually worse lately.
In some ways, the second half against Brisbane or Victory was similar to the whole game we had against the Jets or against the CCM where we found it hard to cope with close marking, speed, accurate passing and man-on-man pressure.
I noticed it particularly under Des and greenie, we'd string a couple of results together then have to win something to get back to the 6 then we'd fold
The other (better) teams can find another gear and have the grit to go there when they need to. Every year you see the good sides lift very significantly for the big match up games, cruise against the lesser sides to some extent, and just lift enough in them to score when they need to and otherwise largely control the game. And go to full noise in the playoffs.
Our boys need to learn that the level they are playing at, and I presume training at, isn't quite enough.
