Wellington Phoenix Men

Shane Smeltz - why is he so good?

81 replies · 1,786 views
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Good finisher..not great!!! Doesnt finish well with his left foot...even he will admit that.

General off the ball movement is average when team in possession of the ball...particularly his midfielders. Very rarely takes the defenders out of position to open up space for team mates.
 
Because his general play being so average is the reason why he isnt a pro at a higher level.
 
Sorry to be harsh for you Smeltz fans but Im only being honest.
 
His finishing is good...it is great to have someone that has a knack of knowing where the goal is and his goal per chance ratio is good.
 
So how many goals has he for the club per matches played???
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Boro4eva wrote:
I dont think he is '"so good"..he is good for a goal every 2nd game or so and takes some of his chances but doesnt for instance take or attempt to take chances from distance that often or simply get a shot away..he is an enigma to me.
 
He seems to want to get into the 18 yard box or even the 6 yard box before letting loose..his strike rate would go up if he tried to score more from outside I believe.  Does he have the power to take long range chances consistently?  Havent seen him take on many defenders, beat them and then score..more of a poacher like say Kevin Phillips ...although he could score spectacular long range goals as well.
 
Having said that I would still want him in this team...just paired up with another striker to complement his talents.
 
 

He should have a go from distance, remember that attempt against Queensland I think, could have been Melbourne, where he controlled a long ball on his chest in a way to beat his player and struck it first time with venom. Best long range strike I have seen from him.

His lack of pace/acceleration makes it hard for him to beat player out right while dribbling but, as shown on Sunday, when players jump in he can beat them easily and he can get out of tricky situations.
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yugoboss wrote:

Good finisher..not great!!! Doesnt finish well with his left foot...even he will admit that.

General off the ball movement is average when team in possession of the ball...particularly his midfielders. Very rarely takes the defenders out of position to open up space for team mates.
 
Because his general play being so average is the reason why he isnt a pro at a higher level.
 
Sorry to be harsh for you Smeltz fans but Im only being honest.
 
His finishing is good...it is great to have someone that has a knack of knowing where the goal is and his goal per chance ratio is good.
 
So how many goals has he for the club per matches played???

Not including any preseason games/PSC he has 13 goals in 24 games.
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Gangsta! wrote:
WillyB wrote:
You're one hell of a douchebag in all honesty


Frankie or someone else?
 
probably me - I seem to polarise opinion on here.  Wingback4eva thinks I am a god, and everyone else thinks I am a c**t.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
Gangsta! wrote:
WillyB wrote:
You're one hell of a douchebag in all honesty


Frankie or someone else?
 
probably me - I seem to polarise opinion on here.  Wingback4eva thinks I am a god, and everyone else thinks I am a c**t.
 
 
Dont know about a c**t.Id say a white elephant
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
AllWhitebelievr wrote:
The silly thing is that we know he would be successful at least at the Football league championship level had he transfered into the right club and even into the EPL. His ability is somewhat similar to the abilities of Harry Kewell and Mark Viduka up front IMO.
 
Let's not get ahead of ourselves
 
I was never suggesting that he was a genius player, in fact more the opposite.  He doesn't have any particular stand-out attributes but still scores goals, which is interesting.
james dean2008-10-02 22:30:34

Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
Gangsta! wrote:
WillyB wrote:
You're one hell of a douchebag in all honesty


Frankie or someone else?
 
probably me - I seem to polarise opinion on here.  Wingback4eva thinks I am a god, and everyone else thinks I am a c**t.


the guy who was giving you stick is the douche. in all fairness any of the times you've been a c**t you've ended up being more or less right
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
WillyB wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:
Gangsta! wrote:
WillyB wrote:
You're one hell of a douchebag in all honesty


Frankie or someone else?
 
probably me - I seem to polarise opinion on here.  Wingback4eva and WillyB both think I am a god, and everyone else thinks I am a c**t.


the guy who was giving you stick is the douche. in all fairness any of the times you've been a c**t you've ended up being more or less right
 
Shucks
 
I have updated my earlier quote.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Glad we got that cleared up.
I was getting worried there for a second that, which is a load of tosh anyway Ben Elton says, women might be going around putting lipstick on to look like Frankie Mac.

Smeltzy's great isn't he?
martinb2008-10-03 00:39:30


Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
AllWhitebelievr wrote:
The silly thing is that we know he would be successful at least at the Football league championship level had he transfered into the right club and even into the EPL. His ability is somewhat similar to the abilities of Harry Kewell and Mark Viduka up front IMO.

�

Let's not get ahead of ourselves

�

I was never suggesting that he was a genius player, in fact more the opposite.� He doesn't have any particular stand-out attributes but still scores goals, which is interesting.


He's a good all round solid striker with a decent accurate finisher. If you think about Alan Shearer, he didn't particularity have that many "outstanding" attributes, just a decent hard working striker. Kevlin Keegan is another of the same type. No natural outstanding features just textbook finish with solid strikes at goal. Thats why I said his ability is "similar" to Harry Kewell and Mark Viduka, they also don't have any particular features about them but they still get the goals.

BTW The A-league has been compared to Football League Championship as well as the Dutch second division by numerous professional coaches. Hence my statement about him being successful at that level because he definitely is at A-league level.

Also the fact that he doesn't have any particular stand-out attributes but still scores goals may actually mean that he is a genius because he knows how to score goals without anything "outstanding". That is a genius trait. I think you mean that you never suggested that he is a "great" player or a "talented" player. This I understand. But "genius" suggests that he is clever and then I have to say that he is very shrewd as a striker which is signs of being a genius.
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
WillyB wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:
Gangsta! wrote:
WillyB wrote:
You're one hell of a douchebag in all honesty


Frankie or someone else?
 
probably me - I seem to polarise opinion on here.  Wingback4eva thinks I am a god, and everyone else thinks I am a c**t.


the guy who was giving you stick is the douche. in all fairness any of the times you've been a c**t you've ended up being more or less right
 
Righty-o free Willy. Are yu still at school mate?
 
When you have played with someone like Steve your allowed to give them some friendly stick on here.
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
At the risk of being massively controversial can I suggest that, in terms of the bigger picture, the answer to the title of this thread is "Actually, he's not".
 
...and before anyone lines me up in the crosshairs, I have previously stated in this thread that I'm a big fan and hope he re-signs for us on a long term contract.
Jag2008-10-03 10:18:25

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
Wingback4eva thinks I am a god
 
Fiction.
 
Although strangely I do agree with the majority of your posts, i'm just to embarrassed to back you up...
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
While I agree that with the positive qualities attributed to Smeltz in earlier posts, no-one seems to be pointing out that he is up against A-League defenders. While the quality of service he would receive in higher leagues (Championship, EPL) might be better, so would the defending he would be up against. He seems to be excelling at this level, so perhaps the question is whether he would shine as much at higher levels?


Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wolfman wrote:
While I agree that with the positive qualities attributed to Smeltz in earlier posts, no-one seems to be pointing out that he is up against A-League defenders. While the quality of service he would receive in higher leagues (Championship, EPL) might be better, so would the defending he would be up against. He seems to be excelling at this level, so perhaps the question is whether he would shine as much at higher levels?

I would think too slow, and not big or powerful enough to over compensate lack of pace. Hard to say if his speed of thought would be good enough
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Its my teachings
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
chuckywolf wrote:
WillyB wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:
Gangsta! wrote:
WillyB wrote:
You're one hell of a douchebag in all honesty


Frankie or someone else?
 
probably me - I seem to polarise opinion on here.  Wingback4eva thinks I am a god, and everyone else thinks I am a c**t.


the guy who was giving you stick is the douche. in all fairness any of the times you've been a c**t you've ended up being more or less right
 
Righty-o free Willy. Are yu still at school mate?
 
When you have played with someone like Steve your allowed to give them some friendly stick on here.
 
If you have played with me, you will know that the majority of the toe pokes I scored for Wellington College 2nd 11 in 1992 were done with my eyes closed.
 
That seems very similar to how Smeltz scores his goals.
 
I rest my case.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
New Zealand footballer of the year. 10 goals in 6 games for all whites. 4 goals for nix 80% of all nix goals scored this year ( proper season). Brillant finisher, great touch, great ball control, great skills (remember his tricks that beat 2 players on sunday). Can hold up the ball very well under pressure. He makes mistakes but so does Rooney/Fabregas.And every other player. In existance. His best goal vs adelaide (4-1 loss) was hit with his left foot.
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smeltzfan1 wrote:
New Zealand footballer of the year. 10 goals in 6 games for all whites. 4 goals for nix 80% of all nix goals scored this year ( proper season). Brillant finisher, great touch, great ball control, great skills (remember his tricks that beat 2 players on sunday). Can hold up the ball very well under pressure. He makes mistakes but so does Rooney/Fabregas.And every other player. In existance. His best goal vs adelaide (4-1 loss) was hit with his left foot.
 
what has any of that got to do with me?????

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nothing really i was just stating the answer to the topic of the thread.
Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
At the risk of being massively controversial can I suggest that, in terms of the bigger picture, the answer to the title of this thread is "Actually, he's not".
 
...and before anyone lines me up in the crosshairs, I have previously stated in this thread that I'm a big fan and hope he re-signs for us on a long term contract.
 
Jag, unfortunately this thread has been somewhat overtaken.  It wasn't meant to be a sycophantic love in, worshipping at the alter that is shane smeltz.  I was just looking for people's opinions as to why he has been succesful when he, to me at least, doesn't have any particularly outstanding attributes.
 
Hope that clears things up, maybe it should have been titled "why is he succesful"...
 
Frankie, i've not even seen you score goals with your eyes open.  I think you mean to say by mistake...

Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ah point taken, JD.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

Permalink Permalink
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Because he scored two goals in a match that I hauled myself out of bed at 1am and jumped in a cab to go see, standing at the back of Foxes with just myself and some pom who occasionally left the pool table to say I 'fooking hate Bellamy', while all the other screens in the busy main bar played a super weak English rugby team against the Saffers.

It was great to watch a New Zealand team play football without apologising for it.
martinb2008-10-04 14:10:45


Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So, question for you all.  Do you think that if Smeltz didn't take penalties for us and had scored 7 goals, his goals from open play, we would be having the same love in, and being so upset at his departure?  Personally, I think there are better strikers in the league. 
 
If Daniel had taken pens and scored the 5 that Smeltz got would we be claiming him as the best player in the side?
 
And I think it's fair to say that Smeltz went missing in our big run in matches...he barely had a sniff in the last three.
 
Personally, I think he's replaceable, and I don't think he's anywhere near the player that he is being made out to be.  I think we can get in a 7 goal a season striekr (which is what he is) that can offer more in all round play.  For the sake of the AWs etc I hope I'm wrong but for the Phoenix I hope I'm right.
james dean2009-01-28 00:15:06

Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
So, question for you all.  Do you think that if Smeltz didn't take penalties for us and had scored 7 goals, his goals from open play, we would be having the same love in, and being so upset at his departure?  Personally, I think there are better strikers in the league. 
 
If Daniel had taken pens and scored the 5 that Smeltz got would we be claiming him as the best player in the side?
 
And I think it's fair to say that Smeltz went missing in our big run in matches...he barely had a sniff in the last three.
 
Personally, I think he's replaceable, and I don't think he's anywhere near the player that he is being made out to be.  I think we can get in a 7 goal a season striekr (which is what he is) that can offer more in all round play.  For the sake of the AWs etc I hope I'm wrong but for the Phoenix I hope I'm right.


I hope you are right as well JD.
Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
So, question for you all.  Do you think that if Smeltz didn't take penalties for us and had scored 7 goals, his goals from open play, we would be having the same love in, and being so upset at his departure?  Personally, I think there are better strikers in the league. 
 
If Daniel had taken pens and scored the 5 that Smeltz got would we be claiming him as the best player in the side?
 
And I think it's fair to say that Smeltz went missing in our big run in matches...he barely had a sniff in the last three.
 
Personally, I think he's replaceable, and I don't think he's anywhere near the player that he is being made out to be.  I think we can get in a 7 goal a season striekr (which is what he is) that can offer more in all round play.  For the sake of the AWs etc I hope I'm wrong but for the Phoenix I hope I'm right.


Possibly. He hasn't been in the strongest form of late. He has missed some he would have put away. His best moments were when he would regularly get two in a game, especially putting away a good piece of delivery from Lochy. He has found it a lot more difficult with a doubly vigilante defence whenever he gets the ball.

I think he is absolutely the player he is made out to be. But he is replacable, maybe not with one player, but with a combination of a good couple of strikers and increased contributions from our senior (and Costa) midfield players..Daniel, Bertos, Troy, Brown all of whom have been on the scoresheet. who knows maybe McKain will start to bomb a few in too...


Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
JD, it would appear Tony Smith in the press doesn't agree with you. He calls losing Smeltz and Moss a disaster for the Phoenix and possibly the All Whites.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/4831143a19724.html
A slight overreaction.
Edit: Without doubt a disaster.
sanday2009-01-28 10:15:40
Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Is Tony Smith a rugby writer perchance? Sounds like he doesn't know what he is talking about to me.

Smeltz is replaceable - no doubt about it. Will we find that replacement? Possibly. Hopefully.

a.haak

Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's not rocket science to say that it's a blow to lose them both, but neither of them are irreplaceable. Paston's a decent keeper. Yeah, Smeltzy has scored goals and been our biggest threat but remember he wasn't exactly setting the UK on fire before he came back here.
 
I have, possibly misplaced, confidence, that Terry, Tony P and Ricki will come up with more than suitable replacements.
 
Hopefully at the end of next season, we'll all be saying "Shane who?"
 
Jag2009-01-28 13:26:18

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Was having a think about this one today while following the spurs game. To me Smeltz is somewhat like Darren Bent, not spectacularly great but he scores goals, and goals win games. Harry reckons Bent can't play with Pav or Defoe which begs the question, is he more of a target man with his size, or is he a runner like Defoe that latches on to through balls?
 
My opinion is that, he is a genuine poacher, not specifically a target man or a runner, but a combination of both. I read on the Arsenal forum a while ago a comment made about the new era of football. Everyone wants to define Arsenal's central midfield players as attacking or defensive, why is there no such thing as normal? Im not talking box-to-box worker, just a normal centre mid that can both pass well, and can tackle? The arsenal reference was mentioning Petit and Viera who both had qualties to attack and defend.
 
Now I think Bent is a old fashioned striker who loves to score goals, and maybe he can't play with a target man or a runner because he can't compliment his partner. However I'm sure if you give him a partner in the same mould as himself, they could work well together. I feel this is the same with Smeltz, why do we have to define him as a certain class of foward? Can he not be considered just a quality striker? People always want to pair him with someone who compliments his flaws, but he the problem is that he is decent at everything and it's hard to find a perfect foil for that.
Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smeltz is a good striker in this league but overrated on this site,  I agree that he is replaceable

Some said he is  the best striker in the A League, I dont agree.  (and there are plenty of stats to back that up)

5 or 6 players scored more goals then him, and his strike rate, goals got per shots taken, is as average as the rest.

He was second equal in the league this year for fouls conceded, and second for offsides, both of which are stoppages in play and hand the ball back to the opposition. You could argue that you need to be up there to get the goals, fair enough,  but I got a bit frustrated hearing the whistle blow and a promising attack halted because he had misjudged his run, or the passer hadnt got it to him quickly enough

He seems to me to be a good opportunist, gets into good postions at times and gets his shot away quickly. But I dont see him as a great dribbler of the ball or able to beat a man easily (yes there was that great goal he got from outside the box, where he turned the defender, but not many like that)

I would be quite happy still having him, but now he's off I look forward to who we will get, and hope that at this time next year we will be singing the praises of someone else
 
Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Hopefully we'll be saying"How is Shane going in Turkey?"


So this Turkey deal is still on the table then? Gold Coast seem to have tried to dispell it copletely (they would though), but the way it's talked about on this forum I perceive it's still very much possible?
Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Shane Smeltz has been good for wellington phoenix but ireplaceable..NEVER  He has been out top scorer but in a team that scores very little doesnt tell us too much.

he has taken his opprtunities when they came and I couldnt care less if all his goals were penalties, they still have to be scored. where I feel shane didnt too so well was with the offside traps...got caught most of the time and often found himself up the field with no support and instead of laying it off to others attempted one move too many and  almsost always resulting in losing the ball to the opposition. In summing up..YES we can live without Shane and Mossy too but it was great having them here. I just hope that they are ready for the fact that they may spend a lot of time on the bench for their respective new clubs

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Dennis Irwin scored many many penalties for Man United.  That did not make him a great striker paultlt.
 
Interesting article on non goal scoring strikers.  Probably more of interest to those who are into their swatty football tactics.  I don't think the A-League is quite at this level tactically yet but interesting all the same
 
I think there have been some very OTT comments made in the press recently, Fred referred to Smeltz as the best striker in the league.  That's just not true.
james dean2009-01-28 23:08:24

Normo's coming home

Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Right place right time.

Ripper of a shot didnt hurt much.
Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
very good at holding ball up...and is a clinical finisher.
 
lacks a left foot though
nix1012009-01-29 19:49:41
Permalink Permalink
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sign for an asian outfit shane...we dont really want you to have to come back here next season and be shouted at and terribly abused....or do we?....lol

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

Permalink Permalink